Mini 442 - Beast Wars Mafia Game Over

[JordanA24]

Fine, we wait for him to post, then lynch him. I've given all my evidence against Lowell, more than enough for him to be scum I think. You can think what you like, but I'll be suspicious of you when he comes up scum.

[Lowell]

Why isn't Lowell dead yet?

Probably has something to do with him promising to post on Tuesday and most of the town being unimpressed with the case you have made against him...

*clap clap clap*

But seriously, Jordan, if I doubted before, I don't now. Sweeny did an excellent rundown of your insane scum tactics.

@sweeny- It's hard to put my finger on why Aimee's post(s) looks scummy. Here's the best way I can describe it. The "blow-by-blow" post seems a little opinion-dry. As in, heavy on narration, but not really saying anything. The second post, "player-by-player", casts TOO WIDE a net for my taste. She doesn't want to exonerate anyone or implicate anyone. Not really.

It could be that she just doesn't have that many strong opinions. Which is why I didn't vote for her. But I would be remiss if I let that post slide with everyone saying how great it was without me mentioning my little bit of doubt.

[JordanA24]

Lowell, your analysis of Aimee's "blow-by-blow" is ridiculous and you know it, how on Earth is it opinion dry, and while she FOS'ed 4 players, it was on Page 4 for crying out loud. And to be honest, a lot of us, me included I'll admit, we're acting suspicious, I hope I've made up for it.

Anyway, you're calling my so called "scum tactics" crazy, you've been pointing out perfectly sound posts as suspect, FOS'ed some very pro-town players, have been OMGUSing left, right and centre and now you're giving preposterous reasons for all this, you've been scummy all game and every post makes you look worse and worse, here is our scum, lynch him.

[TrustGossip]

Why isn't Lowell dead yet?

Probably has something to do with him promising to post on Tuesday and most of the town being unimpressed with the case you have made against him...

*clap clap clap*

But seriously, Jordan, if I doubted before, I don't now. Sweeny did an excellent rundown of your insane scum tactics.

@sweeny- It's hard to put my finger on why Aimee's post(s) looks scummy. Here's the best way I can describe it. The "blow-by-blow" post seems a little opinion-dry. As in, heavy on narration, but not really saying anything. The second post, "player-by-player", casts TOO WIDE a net for my taste. She doesn't want to exonerate anyone or implicate anyone. Not really.

It could be that she just doesn't have that many strong opinions. Which is why I didn't vote for her. But I would be remiss if I let that post slide with everyone saying how great it was without me mentioning my little bit of doubt.

It's posts like this that make me doubt my conscience.

On one hand, his reasonings on aimee are very astute and spot-on, indicating a healthy amount of pro-town suspicion on some scummy behavior. On the other hand, this information is only really revealed as Lowell senses that he's on the chopping block, and could be an attempt to throw suspicion on another person. Further more, it's somewhat convenient that he came up to the same opinion/yet non-opinion about aimee as I did.

However, Lowell's lucidity is making him increasingly less suspcious, while Jordan's lynch happy tactics make me decidedly

unhappy

.

Unvote: Vote JordanA24
IGMEOY: Lowell

[Lowell]

On one hand, his reasonings on aimee are very astute and spot-on, indicating a healthy amount of pro-town suspicion on some scummy behavior. On the other hand, this information is only really revealed as Lowell senses that he's on the chopping block, and could be an attempt to throw suspicion on another person. Further more, it's somewhat convenient that he came up to the same opinion/yet non-opinion about aimee as I did.

1. I didn't know it was your opinion too. I'm so sorry for agreeing with you.
2. I didn't say anything because my "analysis" of the post isn't that useful, frankly. I said something was vaguely suspicious, because it IS vaguely suspicious. I'd like to avoid a treatise on the subject.
3. I'm not on the chopping block.

[JordanA24]

Why isn't Lowell dead yet?

Probably has something to do with him promising to post on Tuesday and most of the town being unimpressed with the case you have made against him...

*clap clap clap*

But seriously, Jordan, if I doubted before, I don't now. Sweeny did an excellent rundown of your insane scum tactics.

@sweeny- It's hard to put my finger on why Aimee's post(s) looks scummy. Here's the best way I can describe it. The "blow-by-blow" post seems a little opinion-dry. As in, heavy on narration, but not really saying anything. The second post, "player-by-player", casts TOO WIDE a net for my taste. She doesn't want to exonerate anyone or implicate anyone. Not really.

It could be that she just doesn't have that many strong opinions. Which is why I didn't vote for her. But I would be remiss if I let that post slide with everyone saying how great it was without me mentioning my little bit of doubt.

It's posts like this that make me doubt my conscience.

On one hand, his reasonings on aimee are very astute and spot-on, indicating a healthy amount of pro-town suspicion on some scummy behavior. On the other hand, this information is only really revealed as Lowell senses that he's on the chopping block, and could be an attempt to throw suspicion on another person. Further more, it's somewhat convenient that he came up to the same opinion/yet non-opinion about aimee as I did.

However, Lowell's lucidity is making him increasingly less suspcious, while Jordan's lynch happy tactics make me decidedly

unhappy

.

Unvote: Vote JordanA24
IGMEOY: Lowell

I'm only lynch happy because I'm so sure Lowell's scum.

Mod

: Can we have a vote count please?

[ryan]

HackerHuck: Where ya been? Haven't seen anything from you in awhile

[Aimee]

Jordan and Ryan, let's say that for some bizarre reason we decide to follow you two and we vote out Lowell (evidently, we were convinced by your incredible arguments, which amount spectacularly to just "Lowell is scum"). We lynch Lowell.

Oh my my, Lowell turns up town. Then what would we do?

[ryan]

I disagree that my claims are "incredible" or "spectacular" What part of my argument are you saying is impossible or improbable? I'm not leading a Lowell Bandwagon. I've stated my opinions and my thoughts, and whether you disagree or not, they are my thoughts and at least I'm not just throwing you "Lowell is scum, lynch him" I've put up arguments and whether you agree or disagree at least I'm not just "throwing something against the wall and seeing if it sticks"

[ryan]

[quote="Aimee"]Jordan and Ryan, let's say that for some bizarre reason we decide to follow you two and we vote out Lowell (evidently, we were convinced by your incredible arguments, which amount spectacularly to just "Lowell is scum"). We lynch Lowell.

Oh my my, Lowell turns up town.

Then what would we do?[/

quote]

I would shift my attention to either Primoris or HackerHuck (who I earlier suspected)

[Sweenytodd]

Sweeny's Super Unofficial Vote Count

Lowell (4) : OvertheUnder, ryan, JordanA24, Albert B. Rampage
ryan (4) : deezr, HackerHuck, Lowell, Sweenytodd
JordanA24 (1) : TrustGossip

Not Voting (3) : FraggleScum, Primoris, Aimee

7 to lynch.


Well Aimee if we take Jordan at his word....

I'm willing to put my head on the line if Lowell isn't scum.

That seems like an awfully presumtive statement...

[Aimee]

I would shift my attention to either Primoris or HackerHuck (who I earlier suspected)

Why?

[ryan]

I would shift my attention to either Primoris or HackerHuck (who I earlier suspected)

Why?

I had HackerHuck pegged early as a mafia member due to some questionable quotes and the fact that he has lurked alot in this discussion. Primoris the same reasons (I'll go back through and quote the reasons later) But this is the short end of it (till I'm able to put together my ideas/thoughts/quotes) Why are those two so suprising to you?

[JordanA24]

Primoris I understand, but HH? He's seemed quite pro-town to me. He's been gone for 4 days, that doesn't make him a lurker.

[Sweenytodd]

Sorry to answer other peoples questions but I was thinking of quoting these anyway....

Hackerhuck: Became defensive right away with my random.org vote. Very strange to tell somebody they suck when the vote was RANDOM. I’ve always said that early posts tell a lot about how people play and immediately I saw this as strange how he misconstrued my vote. Than jumps on me because I didn’t like how Lowell bandwagon voted and says I’m not playing it “safe” like I earlier said? How is one vote on somebody not playing it safe? Post 64 asking me what I thought about the “bandwagon on me” also seemed rather odd.

Primoris post #84 saying he doesn’t want me to be sacrificed but is willing to do so to see if my “scum buddies unvote to save me” is strange indeed. Why you would take a chance putting a townie in a lynch? Seems like he took a chance to vote with one of his scum buddies and didn’t really get called out on it

So Ryan... Hackerhuck "became defensive" to your random vote whed he did this?

Vote: Random.org

How's that for OMGUS?

seems like a joke to me....


With regards to this:[quote"Ryan's Point Against Primoris"]Why you would take a chance putting a townie in a lynch?[/quote] Primoris is not the only one to put a suspect at lynch -2... I thought I had (though looking at the voint count it was probably L-3) and Aimee was okay with the play. Lynch -2 is fairly safe because if the recipient or the placer of the vote is scum then it would require TWO more scum (or town) to quicklynch the person and I think it may be a bad scum play to pile on a lynch like that... Sure you get a lynch but you also out a buddy or two... Meanwhile it gives us information, people unvoting because they are uncomfortable, people either supporting or not supporting the move.. A lot of information and while there is an element of danger, I think the benefits outweigh the potential costs...

[ryan]

Sorry to answer other peoples questions but I was thinking of quoting these anyway....

Hackerhuck: Became defensive right away with my random.org vote. Very strange to tell somebody they suck when the vote was RANDOM. I’ve always said that early posts tell a lot about how people play and immediately I saw this as strange how he misconstrued my vote. Than jumps on me because I didn’t like how Lowell bandwagon voted and says I’m not playing it “safe” like I earlier said? How is one vote on somebody not playing it safe? Post 64 asking me what I thought about the “bandwagon on me” also seemed rather odd.

Primoris post #84 saying he doesn’t want me to be sacrificed but is willing to do so to see if my “scum buddies unvote to save me” is strange indeed. Why you would take a chance putting a townie in a lynch? Seems like he took a chance to vote with one of his scum buddies and didn’t really get called out on it

So Ryan... Hackerhuck "became defensive" to your random vote whed he did this?

Vote: Random.org

How's that for OMGUS?

seems like a joke to me....


With regards to this:[quote"Ryan's Point Against Primoris"]Why you would take a chance putting a townie in a lynch?

Primoris is not the only one to put a suspect at lynch -2... I thought I had (though looking at the voint count it was probably L-3) and Aimee was okay with the play. Lynch -2 is fairly safe because if the recipient or the placer of the vote is scum then it would require TWO more scum (or town) to quicklynch the person and I think it may be a bad scum play to pile on a lynch like that... Sure you get a lynch but you also out a buddy or two... Meanwhile it gives us information, people unvoting because they are uncomfortable, people either supporting or not supporting the move.. A lot of information and while there is an element of danger, I think the benefits outweigh the potential costs...[/quote]

You see thats called an opinion. You don't agree with mine and I'm not a fan of sticking somebody that close to a lynch when the (in my opinion) risks outweigh the benefits. (if you have somebody one vote away from being lynched and the mafia hasn't voted, they can very easily jump on and take out the townie) As far as what HH said earlier and whether it was a joke or not, telling somebody they suck without something that makes it obvious "it was a joke" makes me curious and I'm going to stay that way until they give me a reason to fully back them as a townie

[Sweenytodd]

Lowell, if you are still around today please respond to these...

Wait, do I still have someone's random vote on me? Screw this:

unvote, vote OTU. I can OMGUS with the best of them.

What is this all about?

Also Lowell:

Do you believe that something obvious (like a Jordan-Ryan pair) would be likely? IT seems that there are too many connections between them that its unlikely to me...

Aimee: Who are the highest on your suspicion list at the moment? What do you think of the Jordan/Ryan interactions in this game?

Is anyone other than Ryan suspicious of HH? I havent been which makes me curious and I think I'll go back over him myself...

Ooh yeah... Anyone else want to weigh in on the differing opinions (it seems we differ on a lot of ideas = )...) Ryan and I have about L-2?

[FraggleScum]

Is anyone other than Ryan suspicious of HH? I havent been which makes me curious and I think I'll go back over him myself...

Ooh yeah... Anyone else want to weigh in on the differing opinions (it seems we differ on a lot of ideas = )...) Ryan and I have about L-2?

1. I haven't been suspicious of HH. I went back over his posts and didn't find anything to convince me otherwise...maybe a little pot-stirring, but this is Day 1 and I don't mind that very much. He seems logical and fair-minded...so I still think he's town.

2. You and Ryan do seem to have a bit of a conflict in style. I am not opposed to L-2 this early in a game...I see it almost as a necessary evil in order to acquire information, especially Day 1.

[ryan]

Is anyone other than Ryan suspicious of HH? I havent been which makes me curious and I think I'll go back over him myself...

Ooh yeah... Anyone else want to weigh in on the differing opinions (it seems we differ on a lot of ideas = )...) Ryan and I have about L-2?

1. I haven't been suspicious of HH. I went back over his posts and didn't find anything to convince me otherwise...maybe a little pot-stirring, but this is Day 1 and I don't mind that very much. He seems logical and fair-minded...so I still think he's town.

2. You and Ryan do seem to have a bit of a conflict in style. I am not opposed to L-2 this early in a game...I see it almost as a necessary evil in order to acquire information, especially Day 1.

You didn't see him and Lowell starting an early bandwagon together? Seemed they backed eachother very early

[Sweenytodd]

You didn't see him and Lowell starting an early bandwagon together? Seemed they backed eachother very early

I think you are the only one put off by "starting a bandwagon"...

And not to put words in either of their mouths... But if you think someone (lets call them ryan for this example..) made an action which you and another person (lets call them Lowell and Hackerhuck... just for kicks...) found scummy... At least the scummiest action you had seen up to that point... Wouldn't you vote for them? Bandwagon them per-say... put them at the oh so dangerous L-4? Wouldn't you be more suspicious of Aimee who hopped on and put you at L-3?

Like has been stated before, I realize my playstyle kinda clashes with ryan's... That being said I want you to know ryan, though I push at your ideas and end up in these sort of protracted conversations with you, it's nothing negative towards you (I actually am quite enjoying this game) and if at any point you feel I am being overly confrontational, let me know I have crossed a line and I will re-adjust my playing... It is just a game and I don't want to actually make people mad at me or hurt anyone's felings = )

[ryan]

Oh our style clashes, but I have no problem seeing another side of an argument and while I don't agree with your side, I certainly have no reason not to listen (or read in this case)

[chaotic_diablo]

I have prodded OvertheUnder and deezr. They have not picked them up, therefore I am attempting to replace them.

[TrustGossip]

Oh thank mod.

[Sweenytodd]

Hey Trust... Any thoughts on the L-2 discussion in ryan and my posts # 264-265?

[TrustGossip]

@Sweenytodd

I really like your conversation with ryan. It's demonstrating publicly what I have theorized for a while, which is that while both of you have differing theories on bandwagons and acceptable risks and such, you're both overwhelmingly pro-town.

The case against Lowell is seeming more tenuous. It seems like while people suspect he's scum, it's mostly because of the lack of a satisfactory defense (apparently Lowell can't be bothered to write a "treatise") rather than particular actions. And those actions are probably, as you suggested, his form of barometer testing for overreaction.

I don't think ryan overreacted because he's scum. I think he overreacted because that's just how he plays. I'm in a few other games with him, so I have at least some meta info on this.

@Jordan

I have some strange feeling towards HH and Primoris. Although I wouldn't feel right calling it suspicion. It's more of a general anxiety about the lack of contribution. I haven't looked at their posting histories, are they genuinely away or lurking?

And Fraggle and aimee... ehhh. They're doing their "part". It's negligible, but it's not particularly scummy, yet it's not the most helpful either.

I would quite like to hear from HH and Primoris, and eagerly await the replacements.