Mini 443 - Tapioca Mafia - Game over!!

[beanbagboy]

Uh... yeah.

Also, could someone PLEASE tell me how to link to certain posts? I'm doing a PBPA and I'm up to page three, but it will make my analysis much better.

[Ripley]

I'm doing a PBPA and I'm up to page three

Please,

please

, tell me this is a joke....

[HungryJoe]

Yeah, I really have blurred the boundaries there. It'll take me a second to sort this out, I posted while very sleepy, and half-and-halfed in both games, blehk.

[HungryJoe]

And then I have a question for anyone to answer: I've never played with a vigilante before, is it wise to leave them alone so they can vigilante scum, or wise to lynch them so they don't get trigger-happy?

This is in no way a "Let's lynch the Vig!", BM. You're really grasping for that here, because it looks like nothing more than the question of an inexperienced player to those who have played in a game where vigilantes helped or worsened the townies' game, and Aimee was just answering for him.

I really think you're grasping for someone besides Faldo to lay the attack onto, but you're not making good with it. Maybe you should spend this time coming up with a defense to protect yourself, rather than someone else to lash out at? =\

For BM, I meant MFB. For Faldo, I meant Khel here. Sorry about that, but I was really tired and trying to post then, and BM/MFB have pretty similiar standings for me. Nonetheless, I only messed up the names here, I think.

@BBB: I put d8p in townie because I am leaning towards him being townie, but only a little. Thus:

Although I do actually lean a little towards d8p being town, I'm not sure of putting him in this category... Still, I'm not totally in yet, so... meh.

I should have clarified by saying I still think he's town, I'm just not concrete on that standing.

AS for Aimee/Coppelia, I lean a little bit towards town, but put them under neutral because I'm very open-minded about their alignments for now. I almost moved em under town, but not quite. =)

[beanbagboy]

Oh, ok, that explains it, HJ.

Ripley... what is so... horrible about that? Do you not want me to do a PBPA? Is that too slow?

[Ripley]

Ripley... what is so... horrible about that? Do you not want me to do a PBPA? Is that too slow?

I wasn't being entirely serious, BBB. I said earlier that I was starting to buckle under the sheer weight of detailed analysis that's happened in this game, and my comment to you just now was just referring back to that. Of course you should do a PBPA if you find it useful, and I know others find them useful. (But I'd really appreciate it if you'd summarise your conclusions at the end.)

I had hoped to make a longer post than this will turn out to be, because I won't be around much between now and Wednesday. However I just spent an hour on a newbie game, so I can only make a couple of quick points:

I didn't think there was anything suspicious about the posts between d8p and MightyFireball. I've several times got into an exchange of posts with a player who happened to be online at the time. Is it only Khelvaster who has supported Earwig in finding this suspicious? Anyone else agree?

MightyFireball is a player that seems to be attracting a lot of attention without ever having done anything that stuck out as scummy to me personally. So I've never had much to say about him. I'm going to reexamine his posts when I have time.

shadyforce has gone very, very quiet. Nothing from him in a week now except an "I'm busy" post.

I'll keep track of the game but as I said, won't have much chance to post till Weds at the earliest.

[beanbagboy]

Oh, ok. Of course I will. I'll also put specific questions at the end so you know what I want.

Agreed, that wasn't suspicious at all, IMO.

MF didn't seem scummy at all, but upon rereading the game, I have found a few things of interest.

Should we prod Shady?

[MightyFireball]

BBB, what exactly do you mean by things of interest?

[HungryJoe]

Sorry about this fellas, but I'm gonna be gone probably without internet access until Monday night/Tuesday morning. I'll talk to ya folks then, and I'll drop in if I have the chance. =)

[Aimee]

And then I have a question for anyone to answer: I've never played with a vigilante before, is it wise to leave them alone so they can vigilante scum, or wise to lynch them so they don't get trigger-happy?

This is in no way a "Let's lynch the Vig!", BM. You're really grasping for that here, because it looks like nothing more than the question of an inexperienced player to those who have played in a game where vigilantes helped or worsened the townies' game, and Aimee was just answering for him.

I really think you're grasping for someone besides Faldo to lay the attack onto, but you're not making good with it. Maybe you should spend this time coming up with a defense to protect yourself, rather than someone else to lash out at? =\

Psst... this is not Sicilian Mafia... we're a different game!

[Aimee]

I still find Earwig to be the most unhelpful player. Today, I will go back through d8P's analysis of my post, and pick out the points I disagree with. I would also like to hear more from Shady.

[d8P]

Sorry folks, I haven't been well.

@Ripley. Your post will save me rereading, but I don't think posts have a use-by date. Why did I post all of that? To contribute. Aimee's post inspired me to knuckle down and put some work into it. I had no idea how much it would be to complete but kept going. I knew that if I were to deal with the up to date stuff, I'd probably never be finished, and that some of the attacks directed at me would be rendered obsolete, not by the passage of time, but because of having clarified my stance on the issues. Once I'd reached the end of part two and realised I was only half way through the game pages, I started to question whether it was worth it. Encouraged by Coppélia's words, I persevered. I realised though that it was taking far too long, and when I read that you were "getting slightly lost amidst the huge amount of microanalytical posting" that it might all be more of a hindrance than a help. That's why I decided to wrap things up and then deal with the things which had been raised more recently.

MF's post 197: He raised two points
1. he found it odd that I Fossed Khel after having defended him. Like I said at the time, even though one argument against him was unfounded, there were other arguments to be made. He had posted a comment on the change in the bw's direction "So, the bandwagon switched from shady to pickem?".

What would that have served, had it been true? It would have increased his post count by one and maybe encouraged players to join the newer bandwagon. So, while it's apparently helpful, it's pretty much just fluff. I think scum are far more likely to make posts like this than townies.

2. He found it odd that I hadn't followed up on my suspicions regarding BBB.

I've since rectified that, I think. See below.

This is certainly a first for me, but I'm going to completely change tack now: I've just been reading bbb's posts filtered by user and find that... he's right. I think I did allow my indignation at his misrepresenting me to colour his posts. I don't retract what I said. in fact, to confirm that Ripley had it right - in posts 86, 93, 124, 127 he doggedly pursued Coppélia about her being third on the Khel bandwagon without adding content even though she had contributed the most, continuing despite her numerous, clear arguments explaining why he was wrong. This made it clear he wasn't bothering to reread.

Also incidentally, maybe this is through lack of sleep, but when did MightyFireBall start the wagon? If he did, I apologise

He didn’t. BBB just made it up.

I've tried to find what this was about. I think d&p means where BBB says this:

Even more incriminating, IMO. He asks MF for a reason, MF points out he started the frigging wagon, and d8p says that that's not good enough. Nuh-unh. That doesn't fly.

I think what happened here is BBB misinterpreting MF's post 119:

D8p, I did indeed make the first analysis of Khelvaster's post in which he incriminated pickemgenius.

Yes, that is what he made up. Regarding the aspersions, misrepresentation and so on refers to the following, which I've just picked out from one of the really long posts I made earlier and tweaked.

Post 124: BBB votes me for “many, many reasons”
124.1. Anything anyone says is valuable
124.2. d8P said he’s not interested enough to post as nothing’s happened, but said that someone else doing the same thing is scummy
124.3. d8P asks MF for a reason, MF points out that he started the wagon and d8P says that’s not good enough

Post 129: I deal with BBB’s points with 5 of my own, pointing out that BBB had been wrong in 124.1, lied in 124.2 (the difference between d8P:“I try not to post too often unless I have something valuable to add” and BBB:“I’m not interested enough to post as nothing’s happened” isn’t exactly subtle), cheated, misrepresented and lied in 124.3. The important bit for me is “MF points out that he started the friggin wagon”. Aimee picked this out in her analysis.

I will however move my vote to someone more deserving.

unvote: beanbagboy

Can't continue right now. Not as recovered as I thought.

[beanbagboy]

Sorry, it's late and I have homework. Tomorrow, maybe Tuesday I will reply.

Also, I would like to say I disagree. But I can't embellish that yet.

[shadyforce]

Hi all.

My apologies for my absence. I said I was going to be busy for a few days, but unfortunately it extended longer than that. Also, I think it things might crop up again over the next few weeks, so rather than hanging on and maybe having to be replaced a few days into the game, it's probably better for all concerned if I ask to be replaced now while it's still day 1.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused.

[beanbagboy]

Ho' boy, a lot of people need replacing... oh, well.

Big thing I disagree with: d8p is saying that "what would that have done" if the bw had switched.

Everytime I read that part of the game, it really does look like the wagon switched, as I (BBB) had my vote on pickem right up until the other two people voted him, almost one after another. It seemed really fast for a random BW and it does seem strange. Even though I think Khel has since done suspicious things, that was never one of them.

Also, the first post in which she went after Khelvaster, she started the post by saying "Now that OTHER PEOPLE have brought this up..." and basically just agreed with everything they said without bringing up any new points. All she did was put in the necessary quotes. I still don't see why you think I "made that up".

I got confused, I mixed up Pickem and MF. I think that is the only thing I have "made up" all game, can you point me to other things I "make up"?

Also, I'm not sure how I misinterpreted your post: yes, I admit, for the umpteenth time, MF didn't start the wagon. But:
- you hadn't posted much at all when you made that post
- and you went after MF for not contributing

...which still seems hypocritical, d8p.

This is getting inconsistent, if you can't explain yourself, I'm voting for you.

[MightyFireball]

What would that have served, had it been true? It would have increased his post count by one and maybe encouraged players to join the newer bandwagon. So, while it's apparently helpful, it's pretty much just fluff. I think scum are far more likely to make posts like this than townies.

D8p, are you referring to me or Khelvaster in this post?

[Khelvaster]

Hey guys, I'm back from my chess tournament. It's the wee hours of the morning--I took 5 hours to lose my final game (if I had won I could have gotten a prize,) and I am tired. I'll read the last page tomorrow.

[Ectomancer]

Patrick replaces shadyforce

[Patrick]

Hi guys. I see this is a meaty looking game. I'll try and get some thoughts down as soon as possible. Hi Ripley, Aimee, bobness and all the rest who know me.

[pickemgenius]

Hey Patrick!

This is a pretty "meaty" game.

[Aimee]

Big fat bonjour, Patrick. It is a meaty read!

d8P, I will try and look through all your analysis again, see if there is anything I disagree with.

[Shanba]

I didn't think there was anything suspicious about the posts between d8p and MightyFireball. I've several times got into an exchange of posts with a player who happened to be online at the time. Is it only Khelvaster who has supported Earwig in finding this suspicious? Anyone else agree?

I agree totally. This supposts my d8P-Khelvaster scumbuddy theory: it looks like Khel suddenly realises that he needs to distance himself from his scumbuddy and therefore finds a weak reason to do so.

d8P analysis is still coming later, though I reserve the right to faint while trying to digest his huge long analyses of doom.

[Patrick]

I've been reading through, hampered by what is either my internet behaving badly or mafiascum behaving badly. Hopefully will be able to post something substancial today.

Aimee! Always nice to see you. I will set aside about a week to read your huge post

[MightyFireball]

I'm not sure I agree with you there, Shanba. If Khelvaster was trying to distance himself from d8p, then he probably wouldn't have started about 8 pages in. If you have other examples of this distancing, then that's another story. However, I think that he wouldn't have "suddenly realized" that he had to start distancing. Also, could you restate your case for the d8p-Khel pairing?

[beanbagboy]

Hi, Patrick! (I've read a game you're in...)

I'd like to hear that, too.

Hey, how do you know Bobness?