Open 20 - Pie E7 (Game over) - before 453

[JordanA24]

First Post

Original Roll String: 1d7

1 7-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[JordanA24]

Vote: Ripley

Sorry.

[JordanA24]

Patrick is in this game!!!
<3

Vote Jordan

[/b]

Unvote OMGUS Vote: Simenon

[JordanA24]

*Hastily scoffs and swallows something*

What pie?

[JordanA24]

It's obviously Jordan-Ripley, btw.

Oh, I hate you.

[JordanA24]

I'm being thrown under the bus before the end of Page 1, God I suck at this game.

[JordanA24]

Isn't the game title ironic, come on people, let's lynch some scum already!

[JordanA24]

It's because I'm always protown Teffc. Now why don't you help us lynch that dirty scumbag Jordan

You're only jealous I got your pie.

[JordanA24]

I hope he's joking, since even if you do lynch me and I turn up scum (not very likely), the town still doesn't have much discussion to go by on Day 2.

[JordanA24]

Agrees with Ripley, I think we need some

prods

.

[JordanA24]

'cuz he's obv scum with Ripley.

I have my reasons, actually, but I'd rather not spill them at this particular time.

I really hope that wasn't a badly premature cop claim.

That, or he may be the roleblocker we're looking for.

[JordanA24]

'cuz he's obv scum with Ripley.

I have my reasons, actually, but I'd rather not spill them at this particular time.

I really hope that wasn't a badly premature cop claim.

That, or he may be the roleblocker we're looking for.

Woah. What's going on here? Why are you fishing to find out whether or not he's the cop? He says he has a reason to think you're scum with Ripley, and you immediately go on to assume he might be a cop... would a cop get a guilty result on you Jordan? Who am I voting... oh yep. Happy with that.

back again...
i like your theory Patrick, but that doesn't mean you can't be mafia this game. And what if YOU are the roleblocker and you are trying to take our eyes off you (paranoia is here for me)?

It's just a useful thing for everyone to know. Being aware of what we can do with our poweroles. I could be scum like anyone else.

I wasn't fishing, I sincerly hope that wasn't the cop claim, and he might be insane or paranoid if he is. Sorry, that was a very noobish post. Apologies.

[JordanA24]

Jordan, there hasn't been a night-phase yet. Ergo, Simenon cannot have any results, even if he was a cop.

:goodposting:

Which makes me even more intrigued at Simenon, explain please.

[JordanA24]

Damn smilies

[JordanA24]

There's nothing on the mods posts that mention the Cops sanity. And I'm trying to get a bit of meaningful discussion going, suppose you could say I achieved it. Rather noobish I'll admit, guess you have to learn from mistakes though.

[JordanA24]

Right, thanks.

Any, Simenon, explaination?

[JordanA24]

EBWOP: Any

way

[JordanA24]

Not answering my question Sim. Why did you say you had reasons to believe I was scum?

[JordanA24]

With no night? I think I'm happy with my vote right now.

[JordanA24]

I believe I am right to suspect you of deflecting. That's another reason for my vote.

I do have reasons posted in thread for why I started looking at you.

If you mean those jokey comments on page 1, you were really scraping the bottom of the barrel. How do jokes give you reasons to believe that someone is scum. How could I have been sure that you were sane? The mod didn't say anything of it.

[JordanA24]

Sane or not isn't really the point Jordan. The point is that when he said he's sure you're scum, your mind jumped to him being a cop with a guilty on you. Your average protown player doesn't assume that a cop will have a guilty on them. I feel such an assumption is more likely to come from jumpy scum.

It was really noobish and stupid I know, there's no real excuse, but I'm not scum. Why would I post something like that if I was scum trying to keep low on the radar? You can't really be jumpy if you can think about posting something before posting it.

[JordanA24]

It was really noobish and stupid I know, there's no real excuse, but I'm not scum. Why would I post something like that if I was scum trying to keep low on the radar?

This is a WIFOM question. You're saying, in effect, "If I were scum, why would I do something that scummy?" If that was a valid defence, scum could explain away any scummy actions they do in that way.

Sorry, but it's the best defence I can offer, I can't explain away stupidness.

[JordanA24]

Suppose I can't criticise people for having different playstyles, but it's still kind of suspicious. Vote stands.

[JordanA24]

And what says that I'm necessarily scum? I've made a mistake, I hold my hand up and admit that, one mistake doesn't always mean that a player's scum.

[JordanA24]

We have to trust your word for it that you made a mistake and I don't trust you particularly.

If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now.

If I were scum, there'd only be 1 other mafia, but I've only had 2 votes and 1 FOS so far.

[JordanA24]

There are further complications brought about by the fact that there hadn't been a night yet. Jordan claims not to have realised this, or to know that the cop is sane in this setup. And the roleblocker comment that followed still puzzles me somewhat. What exactly did you mean by it, Jordan? Did you mean that if Simenon were the Mafia roleblocker, in the hypothetical Night 1 that never actually happened, that this would be an alternative explanation for his conviction you were scum? If not, what?

I meant if Simenon wasn't cop, how could he be so sure I was scum? Maybe he wasn't even the roleblocker, but the goon, not sure, but I was really wondering (and suspicious) how he could be so sure I was scum on Page 2 unless he was an insane or paranoid cop (now known to be impossible) or mafia. The fact there's been no night to any investigations or talking and he's refusing to disclose why he's so sure makes me even more curious/suspicious.

[JordanA24]

Simenon, I am at a loss to see why hiding information is at all beneficial to the town (with the exception of some cases, e.g. cops and their results etc.)

Jordan, are you saying your mistake is that you forgot that this game started in day?

Pretty much so.

[JordanA24]

Simenon, I am at a loss to see why hiding information is at all beneficial to the town (with the exception of some cases, e.g. cops and their results etc.)

It's a highly debatable tell- now that there are other, more valid reasons for voting jordan, it would lead to an unecessary slap-fight.

For crying out loud Sim, just tell us.

[JordanA24]

Ok...i am sitting this one out but i can't get one thing: what info can you have if there was no night and we have this given setup? I know i have to get outside the box but your logic is too out there for me.

And Jordan! the more you say the more tangled in your affirmations you get.

I just want Sim to say what evidence he has against me, because this seems to be all the suspicions on me started.

[JordanA24]

It's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant It's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant

what thoughts I had BEFORE. It makes absolutely no sense to disclose them at this time to me. Sorry, sweetie.

Looks like I'm not getting anything out of you,

unvote

. Glad this nonsense has ended.

[JordanA24]

Jordan dropped (what is in my opinion) a scum tell in this game, which alot of the discussion has focussed around. His explanation seems to use a hint of WIFOM, and haven't particularly convinced me. And saying, "I'm a newbie who made a mistake" is pretty null, I can see it from inexperienced scum or town. I wasn't sure whether or not to mention his post 25, which caught my eye first time round, because it may be too nitpicky, but he claims that Simenon could only be sure of him being scum if Simenon was a cop, or if Simenon himself was scum. Jordan seems to allow for the possibility that he is scum with Simenon here, which just seemed odd. That said, maybe I just need to get used to his posting style. I'm happy with my vote on him for now, as I haven't seen a reason to change it.

The fact I'm a newbie doesn't make it any more likely to be scum than anyone else, newbies make mistakes, it's part of the learning curve. I don't think Post 25 was suspicious, there should be much more frequent posting at the start of a game. And I can't see where I said I could scumbuddies with Sim.

[JordanA24]

You said that one way Simenon could know you were mafia is if he were mafia. Ergo, the two of you would be mafia together.

If that isn't flawed logic, I don't know what is, why on Earth would I try outing myself and my buddy like that, I'm a newbie, but I'm not stupid.

Vote: Patrick

[JordanA24]

You said one way he could be sure you are mafia is if he is as well.

No, what I meant was he might have been scum trying to frame a townie. I ask again, why would I try outing myself and my scumbuddy for no good reason. My vote was not 'poorly reasoned and OMGUSy' and you know it.

[JordanA24]

On Simenon, it had crossed my mind that he was being deliberately stubborn there to see what might come of it. I agree that it's really minor compared to other stuff.

No, what I meant was he might have been scum trying to frame a townie. I ask again, why would I try outing myself and my scumbuddy for no good reason. My vote was not 'poorly reasoned and OMGUSy' and you know it.

Ah, I can actually see how you might have been saying that. As in, he seemed so sure you were scum not because you were scum together, but because he was just trying to push hard for a townie lynch. That's a fair explanation I guess. However, your vote is certainly poorly reasoned. I never said that you would try to out yourself and your hypothetical scumbuddy and am not sure how you've interpretted it that way. I said that alot of stuff your posting seems to come from the mindset of you being scum, and I'm trying to work out if that's because you are scum or if you come at it from this unusual angle which I'm not used to seeing.

Post 109 looked like poor logic to me, but I suppose I understand your reasoning.

Unvote

[JordanA24]

If your reasoning for voting me isn't important, why are you still voting me?

[JordanA24]

And I'm not liking some of your posts either:

'cuz he's obv scum with Ripley.

I have my reasons, actually, but I'd rather not spill them at this particular time.

What's the 'at this particular time' about? Not so willing to spill them now are we? I'm still confused as to why they might provoke an 'unneccesary slap fight'.

It was fun to watch jordan squirm.

that sounds more like the killer instinct that's supposed to come with a mafia position...

I'd be much happier to see scum squirm as town than as scum.

Completely needless spamming.

We have to trust your word for it that you made a mistake and I don't trust you particularly.

If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now.

Why? If I were scum, there'd be only one more scum trying to make me seem town, in this case, quite a bit of the town disagree with you. I think your trying to appeal to emotion here and trying to pressure people into voting for me, and then covering your tracks by being the first on a bandwagon.

Vote: Sim

[JordanA24]

I was sort of understanding your reasoning, until I hit this:

I think your trying to appeal to emotion here and trying to pressure people into voting for me,

I don't think you know what appeal to emotion means.

and then covering your tracks by being the first on a bandwagon

I'd advise you think long and hard about how silly this statement is before you actually ask me to respond to it.
Your post was cute, but unfortunately fell short of the "thinking it all through" requirement.

First of all, I do know what appeal to emotion means, and you are trying to pressure people, you may as well be saying "If you don't start voting for this guy, then you'll start looking scummy as well."

And my statement wasn't silly, it's a well established scum tactic to try and cover their tracks after a mislynch, as then they go after the 2nd and 3rd on the bandwagon. And besides, wheres a mislynch going to start if somebody (usually scum) doesn't get the ball rolling?

And if those other two posts weren't useless spam, then what were they?

[JordanA24]

That bit about almost understanding his reasoning is mine.

[JordanA24]

First of all, I do know what appeal to emotion means, and you are trying to pressure people, you may as well be saying "If you don't start voting for this guy, then you'll start looking scummy as well."

I don't recall saying such things. Rather, if everyone did start voting this guy, I'd be quite suspicious.

Hang on, why would you be suspicious of someone voting for me when you're so sure I'm scum.

And my statement wasn't silly, it's a well established scum tactic to try and cover their tracks after a mislynch, as then they go after the 2nd and 3rd on the bandwagon.

Your idea is silly. You are basically saying scum will vote first on the bandwagon to avoid the second or the third vote. What you fail to understand is

one vote is not a wagon

.

I've got 2 votes on me, still not a bandwagon, but the point is that if it does become a bandwagon that gets me lynched, then you can start blaming the 2nd and 3rd voters on the bandwagon.

And besides, wheres a mislynch going to start if somebody (usually scum) doesn't get the ball rolling?

X

Starting a wagon on a townie is a nontell at worst, and at best an indication of someone being protown enough not to care about standing out.

Fair point.

And if those other two posts weren't useless spam, then what were they?

Comments on the game, obv.

It'd be nice if you could add something useful to these comments.

[JordanA24]

Hang on, why would you be suspicious of someone voting for me when you're so sure I'm scum.

See: everyone. I realize that isn't as clear as it is intended. If there was a sudden quick move to wagon you, then I would be highly skeptical.

Now you're contradicting yourself.

If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now.

I've got 2 votes on me, still not a bandwagon, but the point is that if it does become a bandwagon that gets me lynched, then you can start blaming the 2nd and 3rd voters on the bandwagon.

It would depend on the context of the wagon. "Third on the wagon" is a bit of an outdated tell.

WIFOM anybody?

[JordanA24]

Now you're contradicting yourself.

No, I am not.

So you say that if I were scum, there'd be much more enthusiasm for my lynch, and then you say that you'd be suspicious of any quick bandwagons, if it's not contradicting yourself, then what is it?

3rd on the bandwagon isn't really outdated, and neither is -1.

[JordanA24]

Erm. I think you simply misread there Jordan. He said if you were town they'd be more enthusiasm for your lynch.

<Censored>

[JordanA24]

I'm not doing very well aren't I.

[JordanA24]

Back and wondering why jordan is appealing to emotions-because he seems to be in his last two posts. I didn't like that before, when he unvoted after the "irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant..." post Sim made.

Sorry, I was just so embarrassed and pissed off at myself because, so far, I'm probably putting in the worst performance in the history of the site. I gave myself a break from this game to try and get my act toghether.

I unvoted because it was obvious I wasn't getting anywhere pressuring Sim, so I felt it was best to try and put my focus elsewhere, not that Sim is cleared at all, I'm still suspicious of him.

I agree it's odd how Paradox has FOS'ed Patrick and Ripley for reasons that are poor at best and flawed at worst.

[JordanA24]

Okay, fine:

The two posts that made me vote Jordan were the two firsts posts written by Jordan and Ripley. Jordan roles a dice, and votes Ripley, and says "Sorry". I thought, what the hell does he need to say sorry for? So I jumped on that, as did Patrick. And then Ripley says "well gosh, I want to join dis wagon, but I jwust can't". And that's what got me thinking.

I'm no longer thinking this, as I don't think jordan-ripley makes that much sense anymore, but I still want to run jordan up for other reasons.

Ah, that sorry was becasue we know eachother from another game, and I think he's a good player.

[JordanA24]

Also, Simenon's comment "If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now." has some value. Unless Simenon and Patrick are the scum, there would have been at least one scum out there who passed on the chance of making a move on an innocent caught in a slip.

I'm almost certain one of Sim or Patrick is scum, if I had to guess, I'd guess Sim. For their partner, I think another experienced player, one who has decided to not vote for me for precisly the reason stated above, in fact, I think that's another point against Sim, trying to communicate in thread maybe? I know I'm not a scum, so, I'm going to

Vote: Sim

.

[JordanA24]

Analysis:

Aimee

: Gives analysis, which she usually does apparently, but seems wishy-washy, finally voted for someone last post, but then gave 2 FOS's at the same time.

Paradox

: Oddly focuses on Sim's lack of reasoning even after I've finished with it and buried the hatchet. FOS's people who don't agree with him. He completely disappeared early on. I also thought this was weird

How ironic, I vote someone for claiming they have reasoning but refusing to reveal it, and you jump at me for not having reasoning.

Double standards = bad

Patrick

: Jumped on my mistake and clinged on for ages, knowing I'm innocent, this is suspicious, but then again, I had acted like a total moron, and he has tried pressuring everybody, and has backed things up with reasonable arguments, but there's still something odd about him I can't quite describe.

Ripley

: Has made the wordiest posts so far. His arguments make sense, maybe hasn't made many firm accusations, though he's playing like he did in my newbie game, where he was pro-town.

Simenon

: His not revealing his reason for voting for me was suspicious, but that's not my main reason for suspecting him, for most of the game he's just focused on me, also, his last post was pretty odd, Aimee gave some observations, put forward her thoughts about it, and said that how you're playing now is her main reason for not suspecting you, what's wrong with that?

Teffc

: Just taking a back seat mostly and enjoying the ride. I'm not too sure, but isn't this a common scum tactic on Day 1, thanks to the towns tendancy to lynch the most contraversial poster on Day 1 and leave the semi-lurkers until later. She has also made some pretty weird accusations.

In light of this, I'll

Unvote Vote: Teffc

[JordanA24]

I also thought this was weird

How ironic, I vote someone for claiming they have reasoning but refusing to reveal it, and you jump at me for not having reasoning.

Double standards = bad

I don't know what you mean. Did you not understand it, or just find it flawed?

Sorry, just realised I misread that post.

[JordanA24]

That's odd, first bit of pressure, and Teffc asks for replacement.

Just a warning to Teffc's replacement, be prepared for a scum role.

[JordanA24]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Should be interesting, considering he's probable scum.

[JordanA24]

Btw, hi IH!

[JordanA24]

That's odd, first bit of pressure, and Teffc asks for replacement.

I'm interested to hear whether you think that reflects anything on her (now his) alignment and why. You seem pretty confident suddenly that Teffc was scum.

I was in another game with Teffc where she was acting scummy, and then asked for replacement, so, I'm wondering whether she's not very good at handling scum roles.

And that question from Paradox from a while back.

So when I say that I went after Simenon for playing in a way I considered anti-town, is that acceptable to you, even if you don't agree that simenon was being antitown?

I feel we may be going round in circles here. Suffice it to say that you ignoring his intent did not sit well with me.

I stoped pressuring Sim on that after his 'It's irrelevent etc' post, when it was clear I wasn't going to get anywhere by pressuring him, Paradox didn't.

[JordanA24]

I was in another game with Teffc where she was acting scummy, and then asked for replacement, so, I'm wondering whether she's not very good at handling scum roles.

Unless her replacement is dead and confirmed, this is still irrelevant, and is irrellevant anyway as you don't know WHY she asked for replacement, and it sounds just like a way to try and throw suspicion on me.

They might both be coincidence, but I don't think so.

[JordanA24]

Jordan does not know what appeal to emotion means. = )

I do understand, i was having a ridiculously bad off-day in what was already an off-game for me.

Honest guys, I usually am not this bad.

[JordanA24]

I do understand, i was having a ridiculously bad off-day in what was already an off-game for me.

Honest guys, I usually am not this bad.

I'm just saying that you didn't, it was in regards to a comment in the middle of the game that I was rereading.

I know

[JordanA24]

Personally, I think I'm a poor lynch, I think I've been more stupid than scummy so far.

[JordanA24]

I'm doctor, sorry for sucking.

[JordanA24]

I'm up for an IH lynch, he replaced Teffc, who looked VERY suspicious, and now he's intentionally lurking it seems.

Unvote Vote: IH

[JordanA24]

Paradox, I made a big case against you a few pages back. You didn't defend yourself against any of it. I am still happy with all the reasons that I stated in it, and am happy with my vote.

I doubt anything I would say will change your mind because I've already argued for several pages with no results on that front. If I thought arguing would change anyone else's minds, I would, but since I've already done it so much I think it'd be redundant.

Otherwise known as, I've dug myself into too deep a hole to get out of.

Right now, IH and Paradox are equal on my scum list thanks to that post, I'm willing to vote for either, if nobody else agrees with me about IH, with an impending deadline, I will switch my vote.

I think IH is scum because he lurked (he gave an excuse, but I'm not too sure about it's validity) and he replaced Teffc, who was uber-scummy, especially since in the aforementioned game where Teffc acted the same as she did in this one, she turned out to be the Mafia Godfather.

[JordanA24]

Bah! This game is certainly not one to remember from my point of view.