Mini 429: Planar Chaos Mafia- Finally over (thanks ABR!)

[DeanWinchester]

My internet will be down till friday, but it will be back before the deadline and I will check in tuesday/wensdayish.

[Quagmire]

Um, guys?

The deadline's coming up really soon, and I don't really think that lynching Yama is the way to go.

[Thestatusquo]

The case for an ectomancer lynch:

Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.

vote Thestatusquo

because Kison already agreed to be the daykill.

1) Look at his first post. He wants to pile on to the player who is causing the disruption, because a disruptive moronic player is usually an easy d1 misslynch. Check out twito, or masterchiefs play if you don’t believe me. This post also bothers me because he points out the possibility of a day kill. Now, as a protown player, had I been faced with that situation, assuming I would have piled onto the disruption player, which nine times out of 10 I wouldn’t, I would NEVER reference the daykill, because I would hope it was a joke, and would not want to remind the player of the threat if it was. This post almost looks like he’s TRYING to get kison daykilled. This is re-inforced with his second post of the day. These are exactly the kind of posts I would expect mafia to make in reaction to my stunt.

Now you're both a liar and someone who has to resort to personal attacks. Lynch all liars is a fine meta strategy. Let me state it clearly for you, I catch you in a lie, I lynch. You dont want to be lynched for lying, dont do it.

Big

FOS CPE

for supporting the crap logic that lying, for whatever lame reason, is a perfectly fine town action.

2) Look at post 3. Here, he creates quite a fine little switcheroo. Instead of arguing against my contention that LAL is a poor strategy, he simply asserts that it isn’t, and cites a comment I made from a completely different post (The fatchick comment, as a joke reference to quag) as a reason for why we shouldn’t trust me. Interestingly enough, he attacks CPE here for nothing more than saying that I lie as town. Not just a FOS a BIG fos.

TSQ, please dont mistake me for a moron. I understand we do things to get people to react. You dont corner the market on it. My play to get out of the random stage was to vote you for a lie that was clearly a joke to get things moving.

The first result was a for you to call me a fat chick.
The 2nd result was for your latest response to ignore calling me a fat chick and try to say the personal attack I referred to must have been when you said I was wrong?

I'd like an explanation for those 2 results.

3) Look at his 5th post. He attacks me for pointing out that his last post attacked me for two separate posts, and then says that ‘he’d like an explanation’ And then says that he’s been doing the same thing I’ve been doing. Aka he acted moronic to get a reaction. Odd that he would attack me for it, then.

You are entirely missing the point CPE.
#1 I am not upset in the least.
#2 Personal attacks are used by someone who feels their case isnt strong enough to stand on its own, so they resort to attacking the character of the person involved. Its a bad argument style that means either they dont have more information to back them up, or they have information they cant reveal. This is Day 1 and it started in Day. I can only think of one group that would have information on other players that they would not want to reveal that they know.

4) Look at his 6th post. He continues to harp on “the attack” as we’ll now call it, and now begins to poison my well, saying that “he can only think of one group that would have extra information…” Not only is his logic horrendous, but it’s a little early in the game for him to be making allusions to people being definitely mafia. The logic breaks down to this: There are two scenarios which I mention, therefore, if it were one of them, he’d be scummy, so I’m going to mention this part, and hope no one notices.

No, Im not mad and no, Im not a fat chick. Im 6'2 225lb of man meat, though I bet I look more like a Ribeye if you carved a slice. Nicely marbled with fat

My point about the whole fat chick thing was that it demonstrated a weakness in argument. Though town might do the same from time to time, it is one of my own personal tells I look for in scum. Because it came out after a pressure vote on you, it was my first negative mark on the TSQ scum-or-not card. I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.

FYI, I still dont like lying, though what you did is a stretch of the term. It was harmless, not intended to hold up to scrutiny, and I doubt anyone took you seriously. Which, btw is a flaw in your theory that scum would jump on to the wagon. If nobody took your dayvig claim seriously, then you really cant make a case out of either town or scum being predicated towards jumping on that wagon. The better case that you could make is someone who finds you annoying is more likely to vote you, be they scum or town. But that doesnt really help us.

I understand what you were trying to do, so I'm willing to cut you a break and look elsewhere for now (though this line of thought is still here for later review). Between the 2 of us, I think more than enough content has been generated to sift though.

unvote

P.S. If I catch you in a non-joking lie, you can bet that I wont care if you "do it all the time as town". I'll be lynching.

5) Look at his next post. This post mostly consits of him backing down from his previous positions when they don’t catch on. But the most interesting part is the last part: the ps. This essentially states that he doesn’t care if someone is scum or town, he will lynch them based on something arbitrary. This is not a pro town position to hold.

Who is Starfox?

If the names registered to play this game cant be used, Im going to have to ask to replace me. Otherwise Im going to just start voting anyone who does it, and that wouldn't be fair to the rest of the town.
If I sound like a jerk, so be it. If you want people to call you a different name, you should have registered under it.

I really dont give a rats ass if you find it childish or not. I've asked repeatedly for it to stop, and yet this little clique insists on doing it. Im tired of these references to shit outside of this thread, not restricted just to the names, but as an example, the reference to MTG:S. I dont think I need to quote every instance where it has been done. It would number over a dozen by now. Below is where I expressed opposition to this little habit. I think thats enough effort TSQ before I put the onus on the mod to deal with it.
If the mod wants to allow this to continue, have fun. Just get a replacement.

Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.

I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.

vote Anix

for being a dumbass.

Anix, you are a dumbass for trying to turn this into something personal between us, when it is an issue of this entire clique that insists on using other names than their forum name. Thank you for entirely missing the point and trying to misconstrue what I've said into an attack solely on your petty ego. I love the term Godzilla-like rampage. Best case of exaggeration I've read in a long time.
I dont throw childish tantrums, I stated the facts plain and simple. I quoted where twice that I brought up the subject, and it looks to me like it continued with your use of Starfox. I dont have a list of all of your screennames you use on AIM, other mafia sites or in your mothers basement. You appear to be associated with that clique, and your buddies have been throwing around other names the entire game, so yes, my reaction to it was entirely within my bounds. You are welcome to continue in any manner that the mod sees appropriate, I however will not be involved with people using outside names and conversations and refusing to drop their usage.

FYI, you could have ended this before it started by just

using the names you registered with

.

Oh yes, my kids have kids....Kid.

6) His posts 9-12 are not game related. I’m sensing a theme. He also manages to jump onto the AniX bandwagon for a non-game reason. With Quag pushing AniX already, this is the next place I would look to find scum. If theres something scum like more on d1 then lynching the bozo, it’s jumping on to a bandwagon that’s already been championed by someone else. This means that if he suceeds in getting aniX lynched, quag will be the one that gets attacked for it, while he’s off in the shadows. This means the possibility of a 1-2 misslynch, which I am sure scum are licking their chops about. Also, notice how he turns to the use of petty attacks on AniX’s ego when his argument breaks down. People tend to base what they think are scum tells off of what THEY do when they are scum. Since this is one of HIS scumtells, this is pretty damning in my opinion.

I apologize to the rest of the players. I realize this should have just been sent as a PM directly to the mod to avoid derailing the conversation.
Carry on, I shall lurk in the meantime.

7) Post 13 contains the famous “I’ll go back to lurking now.” This was brought up as scummy by some, and to be honest, I think they were attacking the wrong part of the post. I don’t think lurking is inherently scummy, however, I do find the fact that ecto backed out of his position under pressure, and bowed under the towns dissapproval which makes me want to highlight this post in my PBPA. I think town players shouldn’t look for the rest of the towns approval. EVER. They should just post what they think. This to me looks like scum not trying to make waves.

I have had some experience with him. It is not unusual for him to push some one with no reasoning, but this one sit's uneasily with me.

Right now I can't think of any card in PC that would suit a jester though.
I think the bulk of the discussion right now is going no where.

I know it's not technically PC, but there was Stuffy Doll in Time Spiral. He/she/it might work.

(Also, in the process of rereading.)

Problem with Stuffy Doll is the indestructible part. Im not sure Quagmire's play is one of a jester either. Still, I'd like to hear why other than "he wants to" for his vote.

unvote

vote Quagmire

8) This post is the actualization of two different trends. One, Ecto ONCE AGAIN hops onto the bandwagon with the most momentum. This time, it is quagmire, who is also acting like a moron. Cross apply that analysis here. Second, he continues to back up out of game feelings with votes. Scumscumscum.

I believe discussion last focused on The Prof. Quag and his refusal to play the game.

i believe that i'm playing the game, good sir

now we need to kill you in order to benefit the town

What benefit will the town derive from an Anix lynch? It seems not to matter to you whether he is town or scum, only that the lynch will somehow benefit the town.

8) Ecto just did a complete 360, guys. He was advocating an anix lynch just a few posts ago. I know what he’s going to say in response to this “I wasn’t advocating an AniX lynch.” But that’s the point. A vote IS an advocacy. It’s saying “I want this person lynched.” And since I already said that he was hiding behind someone pushing the wagon, I don’t find this response all too compelling.

You guys are killing me here with this talk of no information. We've got 7 pages here, and not a single one is wasted space. Are you kidding me?
I dont know about half of you from other games, Ive been in more than 1 game with a few of you. Guess what, the better you know the other players, the more informed decisions you can make.
Obviously we have some people who know each other well. Lets look at those relationships. We've had an excellent opportunity for observation of debate style where scum/town did not come into play. That gives a control group of observations to be used against the backdrop of scum/town plays.
AniX, TSQ, and CPE seem to know each other pretty well. This is going to give them, at the very least, an unconscious predilection towards trusting each other, and joinging in on the same side of an argument

even if not the same alignment in game

.

Quag and AniX seem to genuinely have known each other but had some kind of rift arise recently. Quag didnt join in to defend Anix as I believe he would have were they friends just messing around about being mad at each other. That leads me to believe Quag's push for AniX is just an OMGUS being pushed way too far and my vote sits well on Quag.
There's tons more in these 7 pages if you bother to look. Though my vote is sitting on Quag to get him to stop the OMGUS and to start playing, I know you'll find other good information to digest.

9) This is completely non game related, and idle speculation. Actually, CPE will tell you I have the propensity to want to lynch him more often then not. Hopefully, of people are playing to win, they won’t let personal relationships interfere with their gameplay.

That does it.

unvote, vote Quagmire

OMGUS'ing the hell out of you.

Quagmire is the lynch today.

Do I need to analyze this? He jumps on the biggest wagon, admits it’s OMGUS, and then advocates the lynch of a player that he doesn’t think is scum. This is one of the worst scummy posts I’ve ever seen.

If it weren't for Post 149, I'd be certain Quag has some kind of post restriction. I'd be very surprised if he is scum, so I can't really support a lynch on him at this time. It's better to ignore annoying/unhelpful players than vote them off. Do too much of that and you'll soon find yourself at lylo with little to go on.

No, after 9 pages of this, Quagmire is the play today. I can't believe how many people are falling for this WIFOM argument that his play is too stupid to be scum.

NO…That’s not the argument. The argument is that this does not at all show his alignment. He really doesn’t gain that much as scum from pushing aniX day 1, and he really doesn’t get that much from pushing anix day 1 as town, therefore we determine it’s a non tell. Only scum would want to lynch for a non tell.

Heheh. Are you FOS'ing me for not playing the game with TSQ?
"I've got some juicy info."
"No, really. You've got juicy info?"
"Yep. J-U-I-C-Y."
"Do tell"
"It's the juicest."
"Can I hear it?"
"You'll have to say please."

If he's got some juicy info he'll tell it. If he doesn't, sometime in the next page or two when conversation stalls I can come back and ask him if he is ever going to get around to this juicy info or not. Im not seeing how not immediately stroking TSQ for his "juicy" info is a scum or town tell.

When is he going to start contributing to the thread? My guess never. Can we lynch him now?

UNVOTE, VOTE ECTOMANCER[/b}

[Thestatusquo]

UNVOTE: VOTE ECTOMANCER

[Cavane]

You have some good points in there, and I'm considering them. I'd like to see how Ecto responds before I consider changing my vote. I'm also curious as to why you've waited this long to present your case. The posts you quoted have all been around for over a week.

MOD:

Are we going to deadline without a replacement? I'd like to know because I don't like playing without a full deck, but if the deadline is still set for 11 of us, I guess I have to, heh.

[Cephrir]

You have some good points in there, and I'm considering them. I'd like to see how Ecto responds before I consider changing my vote. I'm also curious as to why you've waited this long to present your case. The posts you quoted have all been around for over a week.

Quoted For Obligatory "Me Too."

[Thestatusquo]

Because I was busy with real life, and because I wanted to give people as long of a time to present their favorite options before I posted mine.

[Thestatusquo]

And, as you can see, it was a lot of work...

[Yamahako]

@TSQ nice analysis. I don't agree with every point, but you do make a good case.

[Ectomancer]

And, as you can see, it was a lot of work...

So I can see. I'll try to get around to the response in the next few days. I've got to find the chunk of time to wade through it all.

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

Effective immediately: Lowell is replacing BeHappyNewYear. Because of the replacement, the deadline will be extended until Monday, June 4th at 12:00 PM Central Time. The player with the most votes will be lynched at that time.

[Kison]

And I'll base my vote on Ectomancer's response.

[Lowell]

I'm here, ready to save the day. A running log of my thoughts upcoming.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote DeanWinchester

Several things:
1) Call people by their real names. For the record, I don't know, or--

this is key!

-- care who anyone is outside the thread. Also, lose the inside jokes.
2) I'm having trouble reading people because of this odd familiarity people seem to have. I can't tell the difference between legitimate attacks and "let's have a private pissing contest in the midst of a public game" attacks.
3) I don't have great scum reads on anyone, but I'm getting very strong town vibes from

TSQ, Cephir

, and

Ecto

.

I'll add

FOS Yama, Kison, and creampuff

just so you'll know what I'm thinking.

As for the vote, this Dean guy is out-of-control lurking and posting meaningless nothing. Look at his posts in isolation and tell me this guy doesn't deserve a lynch.

[Thestatusquo]

Please explain your pro town feelings on ecto. I have exactly the opposite, as shown above.

Also, it's pretty condescending of you to tell people what they can and cannot say. If I know people, I will refer to them however I please. You will just have to deal with it.

[Cavane]

Also, it's pretty condescending of you to tell people what they can and cannot say. If I know people, I will refer to them however I please. You will just have to deal with it.

Please don't start that up again. The Mod already asked that everyone refer to each other by forum names.

Hello again, Lowell. I'd also like to hear your reasoning for the strong town vibes. I agree on TSQ, but I didn't have much of a read on Ceph, who hasn't said a whole lot so far. I especially would like to hear what's behind your read on Ecto, right after TSQ posted a pretty strong case against him.

And mod: Thanks for the extension!

[Thestatusquo]

Also, it's pretty condescending of you to tell people what they can and cannot say. If I know people, I will refer to them however I please. You will just have to deal with it.

Please don't start that up again. The Mod already asked that everyone refer to each other by forum names.

Hello again, Lowell. I'd also like to hear your reasoning for the strong town vibes. I agree on TSQ, but I didn't have much of a read on Ceph, who hasn't said a whole lot so far. I especially would like to hear what's behind your read on Ecto, right after TSQ posted a pretty strong case against him.

And mod: Thanks for the extension!

The mod has said nothing of the sort...Read his posts...

@ Ecto: Please be timely, We are under deadline, after all. And I will be gone friday-monday, so you may have to decide without my response to his response.

Hope you guys see what I see.

[Ectomancer]

This took awhile and I am not going to even try to get BB codes correct for this. I tried to make my responses to each of his points easily readable. I used <<<<< text >>>>> under each of his points to try and separate them out for you.

The case for an ectomancer lynch:

Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.

vote Thestatusquo

because Kison already agreed to be the daykill.

1) Look at his first post. He wants to pile on to the player who is causing the disruption, because a disruptive moronic player is usually an easy d1 misslynch. Check out twito, or masterchiefs play if you don’t believe me. This post also bothers me because he points out the possibility of a day kill. Now, as a protown player, had I been faced with that situation, assuming I would have piled onto the disruption player, which nine times out of 10 I wouldn’t, I would NEVER reference the daykill, because I would hope it was a joke, and would not want to remind the player of the threat if it was. This post almost looks like he’s TRYING to get kison daykilled. This is re-inforced with his second post of the day. These are exactly the kind of posts I would expect mafia to make in reaction to my stunt.


<<<<<Once again, TSQ is out to convince everyone that he is a uniquely brilliant tactician. We all know that various players do all types of things to break out of the random stage. However in this game, TSQ seems to feel that he is the first person to ever try a stunt on page 1. Guess what, it happens all the time, and screwing with the person pulling the stunt is not a tell of any kind, regardless of how proud you are of it.
The part about the daykill is equally ridiculous. He is bothered about mentioning the possiblity of a daykill? Maybe he shouldn't have said it himself then? Still if you need it spelled out for you, why did I mention the daykill in my vote? Hello McFly, in your statement you claimed that you would kill the next mother fucker who voted for you. Kison voted for you, thereby "volunteering" to be the day kill be you since he was the "next mother fucker". That meant it was safe for anyone else to vote you today, hence my reference to YOUR statement.

"This post almost looks like he's TRYING to get kison daykilled."
This line must be here for dramatic effect. >>>>>

Now you're both a liar and someone who has to resort to personal attacks. Lynch all liars is a fine meta strategy. Let me state it clearly for you, I catch you in a lie, I lynch. You dont want to be lynched for lying, dont do it.

Big

FOS CPE

for supporting the crap logic that lying, for whatever lame reason, is a perfectly fine town action.

2) Look at post 3. Here, he creates quite a fine little switcheroo. Instead of arguing against my contention that LAL is a poor strategy, he simply asserts that it isn’t, and cites a comment I made from a completely different post (The fatchick comment, as a joke reference to quag) as a reason for why we shouldn’t trust me. Interestingly enough, he attacks CPE here for nothing more than saying that I lie as town. Not just a FOS a BIG fos.


<<<>> Alright, first I am not addressing his detailed contention that LAL is a poor strategy. Well let's look at it.

1) Lynch all liars is dumb meta game strategy, you can ask anyone good and they will tell you this

Whoa! How in depth, cutting and incisive. How could I not have remembered to respond in kind? I guess Jeep isn't (or wasn't) a "good" player. I'm afraid I will have to side with a player who seems to be an icon on the site than the self-described disruptive moronic player. >>>>>

TSQ, please dont mistake me for a moron. I understand we do things to get people to react. You dont corner the market on it. My play to get out of the random stage was to vote you for a lie that was clearly a joke to get things moving.

The first result was a for you to call me a fat chick.
The 2nd result was for your latest response to ignore calling me a fat chick and try to say the personal attack I referred to must have been when you said I was wrong?

I'd like an explanation for those 2 results.

3) Look at his 5th post. He attacks me for pointing out that his last post attacked me for two separate posts, and then says that ‘he’d like an explanation’ And then says that he’s been doing the same thing I’ve been doing. Aka he acted moronic to get a reaction. Odd that he would attack me for it, then.

<<<<<< Yes...yes I did use 1 post to attack you for 2 separate posts...so?? I can only imagine you are trying to fluff your case here. And No, I did not say I was doing the same thing you were doing (AKA acting like a moron). The only thing we did that was similiar was to do something to get out of the random stage. Our actual practice of it was you acting like a moron and me voting for the moron, which, as I said is no more of a tell than you acting like the moron.

Let me take the opportunity to address this old situation again since TSQ brought it up.

He never explained his insult. Oh sure, he explained the

story behind the insult

, but never why he made it in the first place. I do have a reason. It was a scummy personal attack which I find to be a tell for scum who want to gain some element in the conversation, whether it be to add seeming weight to an argument, or to try and lower the relevance of another players comments.>>>>>>

You are entirely missing the point CPE.
#1 I am not upset in the least.
#2 Personal attacks are used by someone who feels their case isnt strong enough to stand on its own, so they resort to attacking the character of the person involved. Its a bad argument style that means either they dont have more information to back them up, or they have information they cant reveal. This is Day 1 and it started in Day. I can only think of one group that would have information on other players that they would not want to reveal that they know.

4) Look at his 6th post. He continues to harp on “the attack” as we’ll now call it, and now begins to poison my well, saying that “he can only think of one group that would have extra information…” Not only is his logic horrendous, but it’s a little early in the game for him to be making allusions to people being definitely mafia. The logic breaks down to this: There are two scenarios which I mention, therefore, if it were one of them, he’d be scummy, so I’m going to mention this part, and hope no one notices.

<<<<< Im proud of TSQ for this one. Now he uses his refusal to actually address my point about personal attacks being a bad argument style and more likely to be used by scum, to say that I am "harping" on his interjection of a personal jibe into our discussion. No, he was far too busy trying to convince us that it was nothing to look at. I dont call it "harping", I call it being tenacious and refusing to let your mistake just drop unaddressed.>>>>>

No, Im not mad and no, Im not a fat chick. Im 6'2 225lb of man meat, though I bet I look more like a Ribeye if you carved a slice. Nicely marbled with fat

My point about the whole fat chick thing was that it demonstrated a weakness in argument. Though town might do the same from time to time, it is one of my own personal tells I look for in scum. Because it came out after a pressure vote on you, it was my first negative mark on the TSQ scum-or-not card. I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.

FYI, I still dont like lying, though what you did is a stretch of the term. It was harmless, not intended to hold up to scrutiny, and I doubt anyone took you seriously. Which, btw is a flaw in your theory that scum would jump on to the wagon. If nobody took your dayvig claim seriously, then you really cant make a case out of either town or scum being predicated towards jumping on that wagon. The better case that you could make is someone who finds you annoying is more likely to vote you, be they scum or town. But that doesnt really help us.

I understand what you were trying to do, so I'm willing to cut you a break and look elsewhere for now (though this line of thought is still here for later review). Between the 2 of us, I think more than enough content has been generated to sift though.

unvote

P.S. If I catch you in a non-joking lie, you can bet that I wont care if you "do it all the time as town". I'll be lynching.

5) Look at his next post. This post mostly consits of him backing down from his previous positions when they don’t catch on. But the most interesting part is the last part: the ps. This essentially states that he doesn’t care if someone is scum or town, he will lynch them based on something arbitrary. This is not a pro town position to hold.

<<<<<<Backing down? It's called applying pressure and moving along when you have the information you wanted.
I wouldn't call catching someone in a lie an arbitrary reason. You still are not getting license to lie from me. I know you are trying to put the onus on me by claiming "Im going to lie as town, so deal with it.". My position is, "If I catch you lying, I'm going to lynch you". If you are in a game with me, deal with that fact.>>>>>>

Who is Starfox?

If the names registered to play this game cant be used, Im going to have to ask to replace me. Otherwise Im going to just start voting anyone who does it, and that wouldn't be fair to the rest of the town.
If I sound like a jerk, so be it. If you want people to call you a different name, you should have registered under it.

I really dont give a rats ass if you find it childish or not. I've asked repeatedly for it to stop, and yet this little clique insists on doing it. Im tired of these references to shit outside of this thread, not restricted just to the names, but as an example, the reference to MTG:S. I dont think I need to quote every instance where it has been done. It would number over a dozen by now. Below is where I expressed opposition to this little habit. I think thats enough effort TSQ before I put the onus on the mod to deal with it.
If the mod wants to allow this to continue, have fun. Just get a replacement.

Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.

I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.

vote Anix

for being a dumbass.

Anix, you are a dumbass for trying to turn this into something personal between us, when it is an issue of this entire clique that insists on using other names than their forum name. Thank you for entirely missing the point and trying to misconstrue what I've said into an attack solely on your petty ego. I love the term Godzilla-like rampage. Best case of exaggeration I've read in a long time.
I dont throw childish tantrums, I stated the facts plain and simple. I quoted where twice that I brought up the subject, and it looks to me like it continued with your use of Starfox. I dont have a list of all of your screennames you use on AIM, other mafia sites or in your mothers basement. You appear to be associated with that clique, and your buddies have been throwing around other names the entire game, so yes, my reaction to it was entirely within my bounds. You are welcome to continue in any manner that the mod sees appropriate, I however will not be involved with people using outside names and conversations and refusing to drop their usage.

FYI, you could have ended this before it started by just

using the names you registered with

.

Oh yes, my kids have kids....Kid.

6) His posts 9-12 are not game related. I’m sensing a theme. He also manages to jump onto the AniX bandwagon for a non-game reason. With Quag pushing AniX already, this is the next place I would look to find scum. If theres something scum like more on d1 then lynching the bozo, it’s jumping on to a bandwagon that’s already been championed by someone else. This means that if he suceeds in getting aniX lynched, quag will be the one that gets attacked for it, while he’s off in the shadows. This means the possibility of a 1-2 misslynch, which I am sure scum are licking their chops about. Also, notice how he turns to the use of petty attacks on AniX’s ego when his argument breaks down. People tend to base what they think are scum tells off of what THEY do when they are scum. Since this is one of HIS scumtells, this is pretty damning in my opinion.

<<<<<<You preface by saying that posts 9-12 are not game related but are deriving scumtells from them? Posts 9-12 were me dealing with you and your friends being a bunch of assholes. You know that, the rest of the players know that. I get the impression you added this in to add to the volume of this post. "There is so much material he must be scum!">>>>>>

I apologize to the rest of the players. I realize this should have just been sent as a PM directly to the mod to avoid derailing the conversation.
Carry on, I shall lurk in the meantime.

7) Post 13 contains the famous “I’ll go back to lurking now.” This was brought up as scummy by some, and to be honest, I think they were attacking the wrong part of the post. I don’t think lurking is inherently scummy, however, I do find the fact that ecto backed out of his position under pressure, and bowed under the towns dissapproval which makes me want to highlight this post in my PBPA. I think town players shouldn’t look for the rest of the towns approval. EVER. They should just post what they think. This to me looks like scum not trying to make waves.



<<<<<<Again you grab an off topic post to find scumtells. Every member of this game deserved that apology from me. Every member of the game is STILL waiting on your apology for contributing to the derailing of the game over something as simple as using forum names. I'm sure they will never get it. Town take note now at the volume of material in this "case" that is essentially fluff to make it look bigger and more impressive. Pay attention to his phrasing that I "backed out of my position under pressure" as if it were a bandwagon or something game related at question, when in fact it was over whether those players were breaking forum rules by using names other than players forum names.>>>>>>

I have had some experience with him. It is not unusual for him to push some one with no reasoning, but this one sit's uneasily with me.

Right now I can't think of any card in PC that would suit a jester though.
I think the bulk of the discussion right now is going no where.

I know it's not technically PC, but there was Stuffy Doll in Time Spiral. He/she/it might work.

(Also, in the process of rereading.)

Problem with Stuffy Doll is the indestructible part. Im not sure Quagmire's play is one of a jester either. Still, I'd like to hear why other than "he wants to" for his vote.

unvote

vote Quagmire

8) This post is the actualization of two different trends. One, Ecto ONCE AGAIN hops onto the bandwagon with the most momentum. This time, it is quagmire, who is also acting like a moron. Cross apply that analysis here. Second, he continues to back up out of game feelings with votes. Scumscumscum.

<<<<<<Really? I hopped onto the bandwagon with the most momentum? I voted Quagmire who had at the time....zero votes. In other words, no bandwagon at all. Also, where are the "out of game feelings"? I see speculation about roles based upon game flavor myself. Another example of building a case with fluff, or, dare I say it, an outright fabricated statement about me jumping on a bandwagon

that didnt exist even in the form of 1 vote.

>>>>>>

I believe discussion last focused on The Prof. Quag and his refusal to play the game.

i believe that i'm playing the game, good sir

now we need to kill you in order to benefit the town

What benefit will the town derive from an Anix lynch? It seems not to matter to you whether he is town or scum, only that the lynch will somehow benefit the town.

8) Ecto just did a complete 360, guys. He was advocating an anix lynch just a few posts ago. I know what he’s going to say in response to this “I wasn’t advocating an AniX lynch.” But that’s the point. A vote IS an advocacy. It’s saying “I want this person lynched.” And since I already said that he was hiding behind someone pushing the wagon, I don’t find this response all too compelling.



<<<<<<Taken out of context here. Go re-read the arguments over the forum names. The Anix vote was an OMGUS vote because I thought he was being a dumbass. If you think that Anix vote was anything other than me being irritated with that clique of people, then go ahead and chalk up a point for TSQ. For the rest of you, TSQ saying it doesnt make it so. People regularly put votes on other players for various reasons that dont always iinclude lynching them on the spot. This particular quote here is me trying in vain to get something out of Quag other than "vote Anix".>>>>>>

You guys are killing me here with this talk of no information. We've got 7 pages here, and not a single one is wasted space. Are you kidding me?
I dont know about half of you from other games, Ive been in more than 1 game with a few of you. Guess what, the better you know the other players, the more informed decisions you can make.
Obviously we have some people who know each other well. Lets look at those relationships. We've had an excellent opportunity for observation of debate style where scum/town did not come into play. That gives a control group of observations to be used against the backdrop of scum/town plays.
AniX, TSQ, and CPE seem to know each other pretty well. This is going to give them, at the very least, an unconscious predilection towards trusting each other, and joinging in on the same side of an argument

even if not the same alignment in game

.

Quag and AniX seem to genuinely have known each other but had some kind of rift arise recently. Quag didnt join in to defend Anix as I believe he would have were they friends just messing around about being mad at each other. That leads me to believe Quag's push for AniX is just an OMGUS being pushed way too far and my vote sits well on Quag.
There's tons more in these 7 pages if you bother to look. Though my vote is sitting on Quag to get him to stop the OMGUS and to start playing, I know you'll find other good information to digest.

9) This is completely non game related, and idle speculation. Actually, CPE will tell you I have the propensity to want to lynch him more often then not. Hopefully, of people are playing to win, they won’t let personal relationships interfere with their gameplay.

<<<<<<Baseless opinion comment by TSQ>>>>>>

That does it.

unvote, vote Quagmire

OMGUS'ing the hell out of you.

Quagmire is the lynch today.

Do I need to analyze this? He jumps on the biggest wagon, admits it’s OMGUS, and then advocates the lynch of a player that he doesn’t think is scum. This is one of the worst scummy posts I’ve ever seen.


<<<<<< Really? TSQ himself just illustrated that I was the one getting irritated with Quag. I was the one who put the first vote on him for his play. I was the one who put pressure on him to say something more than "vote Anix". I was the one who gave him some breathing room and then yes, voted him again when he refused to change his playstyle. And ladies and Gents, once again, I somehow jumped on the biggest wagon

despite there being zero votes on Quag at the time.

Mine was the first and Dean added his not long after.>>>>>>

If it weren't for Post 149, I'd be certain Quag has some kind of post restriction. I'd be very surprised if he is scum, so I can't really support a lynch on him at this time. It's better to ignore annoying/unhelpful players than vote them off. Do too much of that and you'll soon find yourself at lylo with little to go on.

No, after 9 pages of this, Quagmire is the play today. I can't believe how many people are falling for this WIFOM argument that his play is too stupid to be scum.

NO…That’s not the argument. The argument is that this does not at all show his alignment. He really doesn’t gain that much as scum from pushing aniX day 1, and he really doesn’t get that much from pushing anix day 1 as town, therefore we determine it’s a non tell. Only scum would want to lynch for a non tell.

<<<<<<I don't think you have a grasp at all. I tell you who would vote for someone playing like Quag is playing. Town who needs every town body actively working to locate scum. Quag is of no help. Only scum would support not putting any pressure on a player who is not of help to the town.>>>>>>

Heheh. Are you FOS'ing me for not playing the game with TSQ?
"I've got some juicy info."
"No, really. You've got juicy info?"
"Yep. J-U-I-C-Y."
"Do tell"
"It's the juicest."
"Can I hear it?"
"You'll have to say please."

If he's got some juicy info he'll tell it. If he doesn't, sometime in the next page or two when conversation stalls I can come back and ask him if he is ever going to get around to this juicy info or not. Im not seeing how not immediately stroking TSQ for his "juicy" info is a scum or town tell.

When is he going to start contributing to the thread? My guess never. Can we lynch him now?

<<<<<<Now I'm to blame (again) for not playing his game of "I've got a secret" the way he wants. If you've got information, say it. You're acting like a pre-pubescent girl teasing her friends with the latest gossip. If you're town and have information we should hear, spit it out. Speaking of which, where is this "juicy info"? No lame excuses like saying "this case on you was the juice". I've clearly shown this case was much more of a raisin than a grape.>>>>>>

[Ectomancer]

@ Ecto: Please be timely, We are under deadline, after all. And I will be gone friday-monday, so you may have to decide without my response to his response.

I can't believe the audacity of this post. Remember this?

You have some good points in there, and I'm considering them. I'd like to see how Ecto responds before I consider changing my vote. I'm also curious as to why you've waited this long to present your case. The posts you quoted have all been around for over a week.

Quoted For Obligatory "Me Too."

Because I was busy with real life, and because I wanted to give people as long of a time to present their favorite options before I posted mine.

And, as you can see, it was a lot of work...

It was fortunate that I had the time to respond to your nearly 3000 word "case". I find your timing and length for the accusation post and subsequent prodding of me to be in disregard for my time and life and, for a suspicious man, which I am, it also has the trappings of design. It would put another player in an awkward position after all, would it not, if they did not have time to respond or only had time to make a short, ineffectual, response to an attack of that length and apparent detail just before a deadline. Given that situation, other players begin to feel pressured by the need to lynch someone and could easily be swayed merely by the volume of a case, and not by its substance.
I don't mind someone building a case against me, we all are building them. Your motives and methods in your case however have become suspect to me.

[Thestatusquo]

Ecto, asking you to post by the deadline is not a setup, it's a reasonable request.

[Ectomancer]

Being a reasonable request does not exclude it from being advantageous when properly applied. Whether it was by design or not is the matter in question, not the merits of the request itself.

[Ectomancer]

Don't be offended by the suspicion, please. I am accusing you of being a crafty player. My sincere apologies if you are not

[Thestatusquo]

My behing a crafty player (which I am) and this bei being a completely benign request (which it is) are not mutually exclusive.

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

Mod Announcement: I DID say that people should refer to each other as their forum names to prevent confusion. I think it got deleted in the crash some time ago. Please continue to abide by this guideline.

[Cavane]

Mod Announcement: I DID say that people should refer to each other as their forum names to prevent confusion. I think it got deleted in the crash some time ago. Please continue to abide by this guideline.

Thanks. Good to know I didn't go crazy, because I knew I saw you post that.

Anyway, I think Ecto offered a fairly strong defense. Particularly against your accusations that he jumped onto a Quag wagon. When you posted that it was the biggest wagon, I didn't bother checking the thread (shame on me) but I just have and he's right. If you respond to nothing else in his counter-arguement, I'd at least like to see your response to that before you head off.

And I don't know about you guys, but I could do with a

votecount

. I'm just so demanding of our Mod, aren't I?