Mini 425 Generic Western Mafia- Game over!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

The whole reason for voting me is because I picked 3 scum (voluntarily in post 41) and then I picked 4 when asked a direct question. So now I'm the number 1 candidate for a lynch based on that - and you want me to claim? Why? What good is a claim going to do at this point?

We've had 21 pages of posts and as several people have pointed out no one has looked scummy. Yet, several people have taken offense to the fact that I can't find a definite scummy post from Peter. If I could have found a definitely scummy post, we wouldn't be in this situation, we'd be lynching someone, because everyone would see it.

You wanted my reasons for a Peter lynch, and I gave them. I would think that 3 separate occasions he's done exactly what he said we shouldn't do as pro-town players would be enough to constitute suspicious behavior. Yet I'm the one garnering the votes because Peter makes a "better argument" based on my posts of 3 vs. 4 scum. Try this: - 5 scum mini normal; - 4 scum mini normal (3 mafia, 1 sk); - 3 scum mini normal. Three games played on this site, and they all have differing number of scum.

So all I can do is let you guys make up your minds which you seemed to have done. Now the deadline is pushed back, but I still don't see how anything I can say is going to change anyone's minds - the reason for lynching me is flimsy and is, I believe, based on the fact that there's a deadline approaching. A role claim sure isn't going to save me, it almost never does. I can understand voting for me under the deadline conditions in place; as has been said a lynch is much better than not lynching, and I'm not holding a grudge against anyone who votes to lynch me under deadline conditions. My role reveal will help the town out, and I'm ok with that, but I'm not going to help the scum out by claiming and giving them more information beforehand.

[Peter Venkman]

VRK, your argument against me would have been solid if you had used actual quotes from me. The fact that you had to paraphrase everything to fit your preconceived notion of my role speaks volumes about your conviction.

Guardian had better reason for his "lynch peterscum" campaign than you.

In addition, I simply cannot ignore the connection you two have. You defended Guardian for absolutely no reason, especially when he and I were equally guilty of engaging in a playstyle debate. When PickEm replaced him, he defended you briefly, than placed an un-necessary (and reasonless) vote on you, than quickly removed it.

The whole reason for voting me is because I picked 3 scum

This was my reasoning for placing the

first

vote on you. Since than, your reaction has been interesting, and the interaction with other players has given us more information to work with.

Regardless, when a town player faces impending lynch (which you were) it is often customary to give a list of opinions of all the remaining players. In this way, the town has a nice summary of the dead person's thoughts and can proceed armed with the role reveal.

You seem to have a good grasp of the Mafia forums, and the lack of such a post leads me to believe you don't have the Town's interest in mind.

-Peter

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

VRK, your argument against me would have been solid if you had used actual quotes from me. The fact that you had to paraphrase everything to fit your preconceived notion of my role speaks volumes about your conviction.

I wrote that post going from my notes, and for me to go back through just to quote you on every post would be nothing but ludicrously time-consuming. I gave the post numbers where I got everything from, and as you're so fond of saying the other players should be able to go back and get the information themselves. If I had left out the PbP, and just given conclusions, then I could understand you're argument.

Regardless, when a town player faces impending lynch (which you were) it is often customary to give a list of opinions of all the remaining players. In this way, the town has a nice summary of the dead person's thoughts and can proceed armed with the role reveal.

You seem to have a good grasp of the Mafia forums, and the lack of such a post leads me to believe you don't have the Town's interest in mind.

-Peter

So you're trying to shore up a weak reason for a vote with something that I should have done because it's "customary"? And because I didn't give my suspicions of everyone else in the game, I don't have the Town's interest in mind? I've already given one list in post 382, but here's an updated one for you.

Pro-Town:
Gorckat
Occult
Thesp
PEG/Guardian
Mustafa

On the fence:
DeathSauce/Avi (leaning Pro-Town)
Raffles (leaning Pro-Town)
xombie/Ichigo (leaning Ati-Town)

Anti-Town:
Peter - already done.
CTD/Vryk? - Vryk wasn't much help, and CTD seems to be pushing too hard (not sure here).
John - lurking in plain sight for a good majority of the game.

These aren't in any particular order, I just listed them as they came to me.

[pickemgenius]

1.You took your vote of VRK why?

1a.I knew I would be on again before the deadline to apply my vote again if I had too, what's it matter to you?

1b.Now there is a new deadline where we can *hopefully* find something more concrete.

So...if you thought the case wasn't all that in the first place and you were gonna be on before the deadline anyways...why'd you ever vote?

As I was catching up my immediate thoughts were that pick was trying to blend in for later, which I see echoed by others.

WHOA! where did 1b come from?!?!?! It's like it magically appeared!!

[gorckat]

WHOA! That's not what I was asking?!?!? It's like you ignored my question!!

You thought the case was flimsy.
You voted.
You unvoted and later justified that by saying you were gonna be back before the deadline and could revote.

If you were going to be back before the deadline, why did you vote for a case you thought was flimsy?

[pickemgenius]

WHOA! That's not what I was asking?!?!? It's like you ignored my question!!

You thought the case was flimsy.
You voted.
You unvoted and later justified that by saying you were gonna be back before the deadline and could revote.

If you were going to be back before the deadline, why did you vote for a case you thought was flimsy?

Well to put it this way, nobody I would have voted for would have even been close to a lynch.

Lynch>No lynch.

[gorckat]

It's cool. I don't think i've been attacking you though,

just looking for justification, and it has come in your recent posts

, so we'll have to see where a VRK lynch takes us.

Can you elaborate the justification that convinced you in 500?

[Peter Venkman]

Anti-Town:
Peter

Indeed, because contributing the most posts to this game, pressing the most players, and aggressively hunting scum is "Anti Town."

-Peter

[pickemgenius]

It's cool. I don't think i've been attacking you though,

just looking for justification, and it has come in your recent posts

, so we'll have to see where a VRK lynch takes us.

After reading these last few posts by Peter, and VRK, Peter makes the better argument. That I have no specific posts thing doesn't convince me Peter is scum at all, or even make me want to consider voting him.

Can you elaborate the justification that convinced you in 500?

Well to put it this way, nobody I would have voted for would have even been close to a lynch.

Lynch>No lynch.

Half quotes pwn.

[Sefer]

TeamQuiggan replaces John, effective immediately, and the game is full again.

Deadline in three days

, though there will be another extension if activity keeps up at this level.

[Sefer]

Twelfth official vote count:

Updated

Vel-Rahn Koon (5): Peter Venkman, Thesp, CrashTextDummie, gorckat
Thesp(2): TeamQuiggan, Raffles
Peter Venkman(1): Vel-Rahn Koon
DeathSauce (1): mustafa15
Paradoxombie(1): Occult
CrashTextDummie (1) DeathSauce

Not voting: Paradoxombie, pickemgenius

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

With the TeamQuiggan replacement, half of the players in the game are a replacement; I just wanted to reiterate that I am very grateful to both those players who replace and those who stick with the games they join.

[pickemgenius]

*insert Team Quiggan in for John on his vote for Thesp, which I'm sure will be retracted soon though anyway*

[DeathSauce]

I think I'm still voting crashtextdummie, not VRK

Whoops, misplaced that vote. Fixed now. Thanks, sharp-eyed players.

[gorckat]

@pick: So you weren't convinced that VRK was scum, just that you didn't want to vote Peter?

[pickemgenius]

@pick: So you weren't convinced that VRK was scum, just that you didn't want to vote Peter?

I'll reword that.

So you weren't convinced that VRK was scum, just that you

didn't want to vote Peter?

didn't want a no lynch.

Yep.
I could have just as easy voted Peter, but we were nearing deadling, and that wouldn't have accomplished anything, then he would've gotten pissed, then he would draw an argument for 2 pages, which really wouldn't accomplish anything, hurting the town, and I don't want a part of that.

In fact I'll be surprised if he doesn't say anything about that.
To let you know in advance, I'm not responding, it'll take us nowhere.

[gorckat]

I could have just as easy voted Peter

, but we were nearing deadling, and that wouldn't have accomplished anything...

Really?

That I have no specific posts thing doesn't convince me Peter is scum at all,

or even make me want to consider voting him.

vote:pickemgenius

Yeah, yeah- half quotes. I just don't feel like you've been straight with us on your reluctant vote on VRK. I think it was to avoid noticeably not voting him so you could avoid suspicion later.

[Peter Venkman]

I'm not here to make friends. I don't care if calling someone scum offends them. In fact, if it

does

offend them, that is a pretty interesting reaction.

then he (peter) would've gotten pissed

Why are you characterizing me as angry and reactionary?

To let you know in advance, I'm not responding, it'll take us nowhere.

Cute. Can I play that game too?

From here on out, I will not respond to anyone questioning my motives. Sorry guys, that's just how I roll.

-Peter

[Peter Venkman]

Gorc> I agree with you. However:

Yeah, yeah- half quotes. I just don't feel like you've been straight with us on your reluctant vote on VRK. I think it was to avoid noticeably not voting him so you could avoid suspicion later.

This only works if VRK is scum. I'd like to find that out first.

If VRK is scum, than PEG gets my next vote.

-Peter

[Occult]

Intersting responses from Pickem'

Unvote

I could have just as easy voted Peter, but we were nearing deadling, and that wouldn't have accomplished anything, then he would've gotten pissed, then he would draw an argument for 2 pages, which really wouldn't accomplish anything, hurting the town, and I don't want a part of that.

I disagree. If peter had exploded like that it would be very helpful for the town.

[pickemgenius]

Yea, vote for me, it's what the scum wants....


If you do, atleast I'll get a cheap laugh out of this, and right now, that sounds like a pretty good consolation.

[TeamQuiggan]

Hello Friends,

I am here to replace, I am currently about 1/2 way through reading the thread, I will post tommorow on my findings, for now, I will

UNVOTE

to keep things easy.

[DeathSauce]

I have to admit that a small part of my vote on CTD, with associated comments, was an attempt to see how long pickem's vote would stay on VRK if given an out.

I still am suspicious of CTD and Peter's motivation. I disagree with some of the reasoning behind their votes on VRK. But I have to admit they might be correct.

I am more troubled by pickem. His vote on VRK seemed forced since the tide was so strong toward a VRK deadline lynch and he abandoned it at the first opportunity.

Unvote. Vote pickemgenius

If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent

[pickemgenius]

If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent

Good, Peter has been running this game, i'm surprised nobody else has noticed that, if it takes lynching me to realize that, then i'll be happy to be of service.

vote: pickemgenius

[TeamQuiggan]

Vel-Rahn Koon- From early on, This guy seemed quick to defend people who seem scummy, and now his head is on the block because of a weak fallacy in his assumption of how many scumm there are, If questioned I would probably say "oh, probably 4" myself. so he is either a bad Scumm, or a townie that is about to get railroaded, and if he is town it will be pretty telling who the scum are. Look towards the biggest pushers for his inital lynching

PickmeGenius - hard to get a read, seems to have a lot of OMGUS energy to him, but I think that is more a personality flaw then a tell. He replaced an overeger gentileman who seemed more then willing to accept some peoples ideas over others, though I had him orignally pegged as verbose scum, he might be town.

Thesp - Busts out of the gate with accusatory guns a' blazin' calling bizzaro me a SK with out any real evidence to my mind(I read most of the thread before checking who I was replacing, trying to keep an open mind), I think as a diversonary tactic, one crazy clam will make his other claims seem sane in comparison, which several players gobbled up, without many second guesses.

Raffles - He seems to apologetic to be town to me. Gives off a Scummy vibe. but its weak.

Peter Venkman - either he "really cares for the town(TM)" or he is a really verbose goonie trying to muddy the waters, sending us on chases with other townies. His current assault against VEL

DeathSauce - No read on him

mustafa15 - Very boring playstyle, might be flying under the radar.

Paradoxombie - Tuff to read,

Occult - Seems to be pretty searching in his arguments, and not putting forth anything that could be too assaulting towards other players.

CrashTextDummie - aggressive and verbouce, both not really scumm tells.

[Peter Venkman]

Good, Peter has been running this game

I havn't been

trying

to run this game. If there aren't any other outspoken players that is unfortunate and reflects poorly on the rest of the town. I've been trying my hardest to keep this game progressing with a lot of players doing the absolute minimum.

I'm also curious about your "Peter has emerged as a leader and therefor is scum" logic. How exactly do you think that would work out for the scum team? The leader's credibility disappears as soon as a townie is mis-lynched, the absolute most you could get is a one for one trade. Being that the odds are greater of a town lynch during day one, it makes more sense for the scum to just sit back and scratch their heads, throwing doubt out

only when one of their own is about to be lynched

. You and VRK have covered each other in that way, in addition to voting in a block.

-Peter