Mini #406, Animaniacs! Water Tower Explosion! [Over]

[now a ranger]

Woah I just thought of something.

Vote: Thesp

[now a ranger]

Yeah, I'm here, I just don't have anything to say. I've played in a game with Sailor Jerry and he can testify to my MO - I'll post when I have something meaningful to say, but not otherwise. There doesn't seem to be much to dissect so far, so I haven't been wading in with the random chat.

Yes. I have indeed seen him do exactly this.

He was mafia.

This is odd.

Unvote: Sailor Jerry, Vote: Blake Judge.

Sailor Jerry, why aren't you voting for Blake Judge?

It's just really weird... Hanging back and only posting the bare minimum amount is lurking... and it's scummy.

Let's compare this...

Yeah, I'm here, I just don't have anything to say. I've played in a game with Sailor Jerry and he can testify to my MO - I'll post when I have something meaningful to say, but not otherwise. There doesn't seem to be much to dissect so far, so I haven't been wading in with the random chat.

Yes. I have indeed seen him do exactly this.

He was mafia.

Compare that with Blake Judge, who not only is doing you've outright said is scummy,

he has a similar history of acting that way as scum, which you have experienced with him

, and you make no substantive mention of it. That strikes me as extremely odd.

FOS: Sailor Jerry.

I'm liking the Foolster41 wagon less and less.

Basically, SJ and Thesp both FoS each other back and forth. I find it weird how Thesp doesn’t vote SJ until the 6th vote.

As SJ had flawed logic/points, I thought that really warranted a vote. It looked like slight distancing, as stupid as it sounds. BTW, if people think Fuldu's being the 5th on the wagon was scummy, Thesp didn't vote until the 6th vote, and I don't see how Fuldu in other peoples' minds is more scummy than Thesp. He waited until the wagon was almost to lynch time to vote. I was looking at the wagon earlier today, and it just came to my mind that Thesp is most likely scum.

But for the most part, his not voting until the end was very scummy. Also, it seems to me like you are trying to “control” the game sometimes. All in all, I have a feeling Thesp is scum. I find it weird how you voted for Blake Judge in the early going when SJ said that BJ acted like that in another game… Each game is different, and BJ probably just plays like that in all his games.

Is this an accurate account of what just happened?

(1) Blake Judge doesn't really do anything at all.
(2) Thesp attempts to start a bandwagon because of the apparent 'scumminess' of (1).
(3) Thesp attempts to goad me into jumping onto the bandwagon.
(4) I admit I don't really get why he's voting Blake Judge.
(5) Thesp fingers me for not jumping on a bandwagon that I really don't think has a base.

Thesp sounds desperate to start a wagon, and it doesn't seem like he cares who it's on.

RAWR! IS IT ME AND ALL MY SCUM BUDDIES DESPERATE FOR A WAGON? CLAIM OR DIE!!!

Unvote: Blake Dodge, Vote: Sailor Jerry.

If you out your scum buddies, we might kill you last.

He seemed to have a ton of confidence with his 6th vote as well.

@Thesp: Also, why did you want to wait on me/Blake Judge before you answer anything? Were you afraid that maybe BJ’s night choice targeted you? It seems you were afraid you might make a mistake in saying what happened to you last night after Foolster asked you, so after I said my night choices, you said that you received no notification of anything that happened to you last night. At the time, I had no idea what was going on as I hadn’t read the entire game.




My gut just keeps screaming “scum!” when I see Thesp’s game posts.

Thanks, now a ranger.

Hey Thesp, I know this is going to sound cryptic, but did anything happen to you last night?

I RECEIVED NO UNEXPECTED PMS OR NOTIFICATIONS LAST NIGHT. EXPLAIN THIS IF YOU THINK IT WORTHWHILE. IGNORE IT IF YOU THINK IT NOT.

Sorry for the caps again.

I'd like to hear a Fuldu claim. I'm pondering how worthwhile it would be for a mass claim at this point. I'm also curious to hear if anyone else is supcious of me.

Also, I don’t see why you ask and smile to see if anyone else is suspicious of you. You act as if you should be seen as town to everyone else, and if anyone else thinks otherwise, than dunno.

[JDodge]

NAR, you do realize that Thesp is nearly a confirmed innocent, correct? I also fail to see your point. None of that seems scummy to me. Perhaps you can explain a bit further.

[now a ranger]

Jdodge could you explain why he is nearly confirmed innocent? I think I must have missed something. Nearly confirmed doesn't mean confirmed 100% though.

[JDodge]

Jdodge could you explain why he is nearly confirmed innocent? I think I must have missed something. Nearly confirmed doesn't mean confirmed 100% though.

Thesp claimed female, right? That would mean that Wakko is not the third scum as logic would dictate. Of course, I tend to forget things such as "He could be lying" in these situations.

[now a ranger]

Scum lie all the time when they need to. Thesp might have known that Hurrikaty was female, and be scum, so he claimed female, knowing he would probably be mostly confirmed and unsuspected the next day. Assuming he claimed during Day 2, as I have to go find it.

[now a ranger]

I think I'll look back some more later today to get tidbits here and there.

[JDodge]

I'm really dropping the ball multiple times, aren't I?

I'll reread when I have the time to look through thoroughly.

NAR, you still have yet to explain your suspicions thoroughly.

[Foolster41]

I thinl what NAR is alluding to is the old scum double-FOS ploy. where scum FOS each other to distance themselves, yet never votes. Added ot the fact that Thesp was a reletivly late comer to the vote. Is this analysis correct, NAR?

This too I think is alright evidencem were it not for the fact thzt thesp basicly pointed out SJ's scummy behavior right at the begining. Unless thesp gave a fellow scum to clear himself (very unlikely) I think Thesp can be considered "nearly cleared" as JDodge said.

[now a ranger]

Unless thesp gave a fellow scum to clear himself (very unlikely) I think Thesp can be considered "nearly cleared" as JDodge said.

Let's rephrase this . Why wouldn't thesp clear himself by giving up a fellow person like Sailor Jerry as he might have been afraid Sailor Jerry would screw up?, as Sailor Jerry has been very scummy in past games I've read and been lynched or killed as scum. This could give Thesp room to cause mislynches as he expected to be definitely "pro-town" and not a choice for lynch in the future.

Actually, VitaminR was the one who pointed out his true scummy behavior, if you read page 4 again, and Thesp had been agreeing with Sailor Jerry and asked SJ why he didn't vote Blake Judge. Then, VitaminR and others started voting for him.

I thinl what NAR is alluding to is the old scum double-FOS ploy. where scum FOS each other to distance themselves, yet never votes. Added ot the fact that Thesp was a reletivly late comer to the vote. Is this analysis correct, NAR?

This too I think is alright evidencem were it not for the fact thzt thesp basicly pointed out SJ's scummy behavior right at the begining.

Yeah the 1st part is sort of what I meant, and on the 2nd thing, Personally, it looked like distancing to me. I don't think he might have meant to get him lynched like that, probably perhaps only to put pressure and perhaps a few votes on him to make a statement. I think SJ might have actually deserved a vote for that logic during that time from Thesp, not so late as to the 6th vote on the wagon.

[now a ranger]

Wow, I thought I was gonna get it for saying I was going to post and not, but it seems this is common place in this game.

Random Vote: Thesp so people will start talking.

We are past the random voting stage, and you should have

something

to say.

FOS: HurriKaty.

Try again.

His interactions with HurriKaty on page 10 also struck me as scummy. It also so happens that Thesp also FoSed HurriKaty after HurriKaty random voted him.

Unvote: mole/Skruffs, Vote: hurrikaty.

I'll have to hope Skruffs gets vigged (or do it myself, or lynch him later), and Hurrikaty is repeatedly ignoring requests to contribute and posts bizarre things like:

Well, I'd say you but that would be a blatant OMGUS... You kind of seem to only be doing this because it was you I was voting for.

Why in the world would you think I'm scum? Let me be straight up with you and everyone - I think I'm the most confirmedest innocentest person in this flopping game that seems to be going nowhere despite having an edge right now, so I get aggravated/suspicious when people post utter nonsense like suggestions I might be scum with no backup, and/or don't bother with reading the game. Why in the world do you think I'm scum, HurriKaty? I don't care about OMGUS, you've put it out there. And who else do you think might be scum? You only gave me as a tenative answer, and nothing else.

Sometimes, two scum mates tend to be mean to each other in the game, from personal experience.

Two possibilities in my opinion as to why Thesp did what he did:

1) Thesp just FoSed, then eventually voted Hurrikaty, warning HurriKaty to stop being scummy like that or she’ll get lynched sooner or later. =D

2) It was a plan to make Thesp more pro-town than before to others, going against HurriKaty like that. This makes him have more control of the game as he has been right twice in a row, but that is just my feeling. He also seemed to be very sure about being ready to lynch HurriKaty and saying how he likes where his vote is from the time when he voted her to the end when she was lynched. As Katy was lurking previously, she wasn’t helping/playing much anyway.


I just could see a scum named Thesp while reading the game several times.

[Thesp]

Basically, SJ and Thesp both FoS each other back and forth. I find it weird how Thesp doesn’t vote SJ until the 6th vote.

I FOS'd him at first. I thought he was scum buddies with Blake Judge. I looked to elicit his reaction. Notice after I got his reaction, I voted for him...

8 hours after he posted

. I didn't really have the opportunity to vote him 3rd or 4th or really anything but where I was, unless you think I should have voted him right out of the gates (which I would disagree with at the time).

All in all, I have a feeling Thesp is scum. I find it weird how you voted for Blake Judge in the early going when SJ said that BJ acted like that in another game… Each game is different, and BJ probably just plays like that in all his games.

This is beyond bizarre. SJ said BJ in this game acted consistently with how he'd acted in another game where BJ was scum. I'm not sure what else to do with that information.

@Thesp: Also, why did you want to wait on me/Blake Judge before you answer anything? Were you afraid that maybe BJ’s night choice targeted you? It seems you were afraid you might make a mistake in saying what happened to you last night after Foolster asked you, so after I said my night choices, you said that you received no notification of anything that happened to you last night. At the time, I had no idea what was going on as I hadn’t read the entire game.

I wanted to bully you into answering to see if you had useful information first. Foolster41's play was suboptimal anyway, as he already indicated he might have done something to me last night. If he had, the better method for eliciting that information would be to ask you first (a claimed information role) for your info, so as to trap you in a possible lie. I'm also not sure what benefit I would have to lying or not to Foolster41's question - presumably, I'd receive notification of nightactions (if notification is given on nightactions) independent of my alignment. I do not want Foolster41 to speculate or affirm any part of this, as it might be useful info for scum.

Also, I don’t see why you ask and smile to see if anyone else is suspicious of you. You act as if you should be seen as town to everyone else, and if anyone else thinks otherwise, than dunno.

Yes, I do think this. Note who the two outed scum have been suspicious of. Note whom I've railed against throughout the game. There is indeed a line of thought that could go down where I'm scum with SJ and HurriKaty and we planned an elaborate setup of me furiously bussing them to confirm me innocent (or it was unplanned, and I did it on my own accord). Consider that on its own merits.

Nearly confirmed doesn't mean confirmed 100% though.

I agree.

Scum lie all the time when they need to. Thesp might have known that Hurrikaty was female, and be scum, so he claimed female, knowing he would probably be mostly confirmed and unsuspected the next day. Assuming he claimed during Day 2, as I have to go find it.

I did indeed claim female Day 2. If I'm lying, this is a very easy one to catch by Fritzler.

Your arguments are theoretically plausible, though on the whole I think they ignore major common trends for scum interaction, and ignore most-likely-case scenarios.

[now a ranger]

1) That's still not a good excuse. Who knows, you could have been lurking at that time. If you were the 6th on the wagon, why did VitaminR vote Fuldu for his position of being 5th on the SJ wagon? Fuldu could have been gone like you said.

2) About that BJ thing, did you even read the game(s) that BJ was scum in? I don't think one behavior in another game should signal scum in another game.

3) I think you were afraid I had information, and that you might say something wrong. Vice versa.

4) Scum tend to distance from their scumbuddies, some even buss and FoS a ton. You seem to be using it to your advantage, as now you are to others "almost confirmed."

5) OK

6) I think nothing is unlikely in the game of mafia, and this applies to scenarios too.


Did you read the other post about HurriKaty?

[now a ranger]

I also saw this post just then, one that I didn’t notice much before.

Well, I'd say you but that would be a blatant OMGUS... You kind of seem to only be doing this because it was you I was voting for.

Why in the world would you think I'm scum? Let me be straight up with you and everyone - I think I'm the most confirmedest innocentest person in this flopping game that seems to be going nowhere despite having an edge right now, so I get aggravated/suspicious when people post utter nonsense like suggestions I might be scum with no backup, and/or don't bother with reading the game. Why in the world do you think I'm scum, HurriKaty? I don't care about OMGUS, you've put it out there. And who else do you think might be scum? You only gave me as a tenative answer, and nothing else.

Because of outrageous crazy anger like this? You're getting super defensive for someone who's apparently confirmed (I must have missed that, someone point it out to me.)

You're still avoiding the question of who you think is scum. Happy with my vote.

If you think I'm scum, you've got some whacked out theory for scum to scum interaction on day on as it pertains to Sailor Jerry and I. I don't think I'm rock solid mason-confirmed innocent, but I think I'm just a notch below that. I don't think Hurrikaty is paying attention to actually finding scum, she's just looking for people saying weird things. That strikes a cord with me as something odd.

Definitly no more than JDODGE who gave a semi-reasonable claim.

Claims are

not

a defense.

It does seem like you went after Katy and probably knew she was scum, because you pressured her just because she voted for you as a random vote. Possibly, you were not happy that she brought you up as a random vote because you weren’t suspected much at that time.

You say you are apparently confirmed, but you really aren’t.

You also keep acting as if you are almost confirmed, and that it would be “whacked out” like you said or almost impossible for you to be scum with what you’ve done. That’s not a nice way to defend or respond to anything, as you aren't 100% confirmed, and can still easily be scum, which is relevant in this case.

[Thesp]

1) That's still not a good excuse. Who knows, you could have been lurking at that time. If you were the 6th on the wagon, why did VitaminR vote Fuldu for his position of being 5th on the SJ wagon? Fuldu could have been gone like you said.

2) About that BJ thing, did you even read the game(s) that BJ was scum in? I don't think one behavior in another game should signal scum in another game.

3) I think you were afraid I had information, and that you might say something wrong. Vice versa.

4) Scum tend to distance from their scumbuddies, some even buss and FoS a ton. You seem to be using it to your advantage, as now you are to others "almost confirmed."

5) OK

6) I think nothing is unlikely in the game of mafia, and this applies to scenarios too.


Did you read the other post about HurriKaty?

Yes, I conced I

could

have been lurking for those 8 hours while 5 other people put votes on. I didn't read the other game BJ was scum in, I didn't have the time for it and I wanted to see how SJ responded. I'm also uncertain as to what wrong thing I could have said to the Foolster41 question, that you would have information on*. And if you think "nothing is unlikely in mafia", I'm uncertain of how you would actually

play

mafia. You certainly believe that one situation is more likely than another (hence, your vote).

And I didn't bother responding to your thoughts on HurriKaty and I because I don't find them compelling, and didn't feel like going over them again because there's really not much for me to say about your speculations there except, "Nuh-uh". Why waste everyone's time with that? You've posited rational, theoretical possibilities that I think are far unlikelier than almost any other possiblity out there. There's not much more for me to say on that.

Still waiting on the human/non-human claim.

Mod: can we get a replacement for Ether?

*(extrapolation on the Foolster41 question) - Suppose you claim to have watched me on the prior night, and Foolster41 claims to have visited me or given something to me, and I claim not to have received any notification of anything happen. Am I suspicious for this? Suppose I have received notification last night that I've been visited by something, or received something. What incentive do I have to lie about it? I'm really not sure where you're going here. I think you're finding something which doesn't fit with what you're used to and saying, "Ah, that must be scum!" rather than seeing something and thinking, "Would scum be more likely to act in this way?" I'm not saying that my refusal to answer Foolster41's question right away indicates I'm more likely to be town, but I

am

saying it's not an indicator of scumminess.

[now a ranger]

oops crossposted?

Oh yeah,

Mod: Can you prod Fritzler?

He hasn't confirmed and is going to be replaced in BM's Judgment Day Mafia.

[now a ranger]

In response to your thing about unlikeliness, I just don't like how you're flashing the "that's unlikely" thing each time.

Just because you are apparently confirmed is far away from 100% confirmed, as there is a tremendous difference between those two. That doesn't make anything more unlikely for someone than say, someone else who hasn't been suspected by many before.

[Thesp]

It does seem like you went after Katy and probably knew she was scum, because you pressured her just because she voted for you as a random vote. Possibly, you were not happy that she brought you up as a random vote because you weren’t suspected much at that time.

You say you are apparently confirmed, but you really aren’t.

You also keep acting as if you are almost confirmed, and that it would be “whacked out” like you said or almost impossible for you to be scum with what you’ve done. That’s not a nice way to defend or respond to anything, as you aren't 100% confirmed, and can still easily be scum, which is relevant in this case.

*sigh*

I AM NOT CONFIRMED INNOCENT. I AM, IN MY OPINION, THE CLOSEST THING TO CONFIRMED INNOCENT THERE COULD BE OUTSIDE OF BEING A MASON WITH A DEAD MASON PARTNER. YES, I AGREE I COULD STILL BE SCUM.

But how?

I keep seeing in your post "possibly", "who knows", and "nothing is unlikely". Yes, I agree that "anything's possible", but that

doesn't

mean that anything's

probable

. I think, that if someone outside the game read it over and tried to analyze which player is most likely to be scum, I'd be dead last, and rightly so.

Maybe

I went after Hurrikaty because I knew she was scum. Is it also

possible

I went after her because I thought her vote was odd and out of place? Is it

conceivable

that my vote on Sailor Jerry came at the time I felt it was most reasonable, and had the opportunity for? I'm not saying your thoughts are unreasonable, I'm saying it's unreasonable for you to think this is the most likely scenario. (And if you respond with anything resembling "any scenario is just as likely", I hope you roll dice to determine your next vote to back it up.)

Oh, and I overlooked this:

If you were the 6th on the wagon, why did VitaminR vote Fuldu for his position of being 5th on the SJ wagon? Fuldu could have been gone like you said.

I'm really, really not sure why you're asking me to defend the actions of someone else.

[now a ranger]

I AM NOT CONFIRMED INNOCENT. I AM, IN MY OPINION, THE CLOSEST THING TO CONFIRMED INNOCENT THERE COULD BE OUTSIDE OF BEING A MASON WITH A DEAD MASON PARTNER. YES, I AGREE I COULD STILL BE SCUM.

Of course you think you are the closest thing to confirmed innocent there is outside of that, because you are yourself! That statement does not mean anything, as scum can say that too.

I keep seeing in your post "possibly", "who knows", and "nothing is unlikely". Yes, I agree that "anything's possible", but that

doesn't

mean that anything's

probable

. I think, that if someone outside the game read it over and tried to analyze which player is most likely to be scum, I'd be dead last, and rightly so.

That's an overstatement.

Maybe

I went after Hurrikaty because I knew she was scum. Is it also

possible

I went after her because I thought her vote was odd and out of place? Is it

conceivable

that my vote on Sailor Jerry came at the time I felt it was most reasonable, and had the opportunity for? I'm not saying your thoughts are unreasonable, I'm saying it's unreasonable for you to think this is the most likely scenario.

Her vote was a random vote because she said so. Since discussion was lagging, she wanted activity.

You voted Blake Judge also just because Sailor Jerry said he was scummy in another game.

I think it's likely that you're scum from the time and place you said things, and it fits in together in my humble opinion.

[Thesp]

Of course you think you are the closest thing to confirmed innocent there is outside of that, because you are yourself!

This is not why I think that. I am not sure if you have been paying attention.

Her vote was a random vote because she said so. Since discussion was lagging, she wanted activity.

I find it bizarre that you are defending the actions of a known, dead scum.

You voted Blake Judge also just because Sailor Jerry said he was scummy in another game.

I voted him for a number of reasons, the stated included,

and because Sailor Jerry

didn't

vote for him

. I don't know where you think it was only at Sailor Jerry's direction that I did.

[now a ranger]

Of course you think you are the closest thing to confirmed innocent there is outside of that, because you are yourself!

This is not why I think that. I am not sure if you have been paying attention.

Her vote was a random vote because she said so. Since discussion was lagging, she wanted activity.

I find it bizarre that you are defending the actions of a known, dead scum.

You voted Blake Judge also just because Sailor Jerry said he was scummy in another game.

I voted him for a number of reasons, the stated included,

and because Sailor Jerry

didn't

vote for him

. I don't know where you think it was only at Sailor Jerry's direction that I did.

1) Yes I know, you claimed female. But if you were scum, you would have known that if you claimed female, and HurriKaty would be lynched as you had planned or unexpectedly, then you would be almost all cleared in other people's minds.

2) I took the post in context. It doesn't matter who said it.

3) You asked him why he wasn't voting for Blake. Does that mean you should vote for Blake? You didn't even read the other game that SJ said Blake was scummy in because you said you had no time.

[now a ranger]

In number 3, I meant the game that Blake had turned up scum in.

[Foolster41]

Nowaranger: I think Thesp has well answered the concerns, Thesp being an early factor in the SJ lynch is a good indication of his probible townieness. Outing a fellow scum at the beginning (If it were a last vote, I might beleive it as scum last ditch) is such a stupid and suicidal play that I find it very unlikely Thesp is scum. I suggest you give it up or otherwise have the rest of town ignore you.

[now a ranger]

Fine. I still think he's scum. *sigh*

[now a ranger]

But honestly, after reading back carefully, I believe Thesp did not out a scum in the beginning. I don't think he wanted for the wagon to become a lynch. At that time, no one was voting for Sailor Jerry. When Thesp and SJ had those interactions, with no votes, and Thesp voted for Blake judge, VitaminR was the one who later voted for SJ a few posts later, which began the wagon.

But I might as well be quiet now as no one thinks it's possible....