Micro 366: Vengeball (Game Over)

[Bert]

I'm claiming you are red, and Bert is your buddy, because Bert has not voted for you despite me doing so.

If Bert was red and you weren't, he'd vote you and his partner would hammer.

Why should I feel rushed to vote?

[Bert]

ZZZX unvoting suddenly gives me gooseys.

[ZZZX]

I'm claiming you are red, and Bert is your buddy, because Bert has not voted for you despite me doing so.

If Bert was red and you weren't, he'd vote you and his partner would hammer.

Why should I feel rushed to vote?

Because its clear he blue-slipped.

Also I dont want no hammer while sleeping. Derp

[Bert]

The difference is I have onus of proof as I claimed this D2, and have backed it up again.

claimed what?

[Bert]

where'd he blue slip?

[phokdapolees]

Vote Count 3.02

ZZZX (1): Drew-Sta

Not voting: Bert, Honey bee, BBmolla, ZZZX

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch

Deadline in (expired on 2014-08-06 17:00:00)

[ZZZX]

You are aware that by voting me you run into a deep risk. If either you or me were not blue scum then I would have been instantly hammered.

Exactly. You've proven my point. The fact noone has voted for you yet indicates to me that you're likely scum. Town isn't going to quick hammer - red scum are. That noone has jumped on you (which is one of the reasons I voted you - to see who moved quickly) identifies that. At the moment we need to find red scum, and I think I've identified you as one.

Looking deeper I found your play interesting. And since I am not seeing any quick hammers Its 75% sure that you are blue scum. I have another reason for believing so.

Go on, I'm willing to listen. Make your case or stop flinging mud.

I will make sure that blue scum isnt really off before giving my vote just to make sure we dont lose this. Anyway I think I answered the post you talked about didnt I?

? Not sure what you mean. Please explain.

Meanwhile I will believe in the existance of VI-ancy because one clouded judgement will be bad. Right now I have a slight idea who blue scum is.

Name, justify and shame please. Withholding info is not helping town right now.

If either you or me were not blue scum then I would have been instantly hammered.

We don't know who has showed up yet. A set-up quickhammer via daytalk isn't even optimal at this point for blue - the quickhammerer likely gets vengekilled.

As ZZZX said, no venge kill. But the fact noone is willing to jump on this (the two of you being online and interacting) to me identifies one of two things - you don't believe me or you're red scum not wanting to lynch.

Your logic is built on the idea that you are not blue scum.

... because I'm not? Your logic is built on the fact I am blue scum and you're

not

red scum. Its a faulty argument.

However right now I am sure that you are. Am I wrong? Well I really believe that no town would do such a foolish play. Reminds me of 350 micro alot.

Laying my balls on the line, and seeing Bert (who, remember, said he was happy to lynch anyone - and jumped right on Rubi and Boon) not vote for you is giving me confidence I'm right here. He's been happy to get a lynch, if he were town, why would he rush so much to lynch those two, but not rush to lynch you? Is he waiting for his scum partner? Or are

you

his scum partner?

We're at Lylo with no real info to make a good decision. I felt we needed a drastic move to get info. I believe you're mafia. I believe you're red mafia too, as if you were blue then Bert would likely vote. And I believe Bert is your accomplice, as he is not voting despite being on and being lynch-happy.

Exactly what about 350 micro are you referencing specifically?

I will make my case later today. give me a sec

5 posts, 45 min, promising I am scum yet no justification. We're waiting.

Bolded the slip. You just slipped that you believe I am red scum and not blue. I got it out of you.

Now I told you I will do it later. Didnt I? Maybe telling you to give me a secound was bad wording but in 24 hours you will see it. But your posts are full of team-slips in muiltball. I am 100% sure you are not red scum atm.

since he is blue he confused me as being red scum and that I should be lynched. I remeber something like that happened to me a year ago.

[Bert]

VOTE: Drew-sta

This game seems like a losing proposition. There's a 75% chance that I vote scum though, and a 50% that the vote falls on blue scum.

Is that really even a slip?

I would like to think it is, and that the game will go on.

[Bert]

Also, my role says that I'm allowed to use my vengekill unless a team has met its win condition. That's why I thought venges were still allowed. The last game was decided by a vengekill in 3 vs. 1. I think Mollie was lynched and shot Cabd, or the other way around. 3 vs. 1, one got lynched, and it got really tricky with how the rules were worded. Cheery or whomever modded it had to clarify if/when vengekills were allowed. But yeah, the game was lost after a 3 vs. 1 lynch + choice to vengekill (venged a town).

[Bert]

I don't claim to have read the entire game, but what if it's Drew-Molla for blue.

[ZZZX]

idk. I am going off to sleep right now. Cya in 8 hours. dont lynch until then.

[phokdapolees]

Also, my role says that I'm allowed to use my vengekill unless a team has met its win condition. That's why I thought venges were still allowed.

Mafia wins when they control 50% of the vote, unless circumstances prove otherwise.

[Drew-Sta]

@ZZZX

Spoiler:

IF I was red you know that blue mafia wins automatically if I get lynched if I were red? Are you THAT bad not to see this.

Firstly, I don't think you're red - I think you're blue. This is what I'm trying to say (Have I said you're red? I don't believe so and I just looked at everything said and can't see it. IF, and that's an IF, I have said you were red, it is a simple type on my part. I firmly believe you are BLUE). I think you're completely missing what I'm saying or there's a communication issue here. Or you're trying to present something I've said as a slip to get the lynch and win the game (since if Blue aren't lynched, they win the game).

The scenario presented below is the key: We know that red godfather is dead. We lynch mafia, town still have a chance to win as they have no venge kill. If we hit godfather, we knock out blue mafia, and it is 2 v 1. If we hit goon, we still have a 2v2 situation, in which case if town we lynch the correct mafia (which the other mafia will agree to do since its in their best interests), then it is 2v1 in LyLo.

Now, this assumption is that you are blue mafia. I believe you are. HOWEVER! If I am wrong, which I am willing to negotiate if others can advise that my theory on you and Bert is wrong, the scenario's still stand and it is more a case of finding a red.

The ONLY scenario where we don't have a chance to win is if we lynch the red goon - then its 2v2 and its game over. In one sense, it is MyLo, not LyLo.

Your ATE to get me lynched is, to me, a clear indication that we've hit blue. You know that if you get this lynch on anyone, then it is game over. Given everything going on, and given they KNOW they only need to lynch, this is why I believe you and Bert are linked, as Bert has not gone for you, and you have gone for me and so has Bert (in an attempt to get the lynch). It is also why you don't want a hammer - if we hammer the wrong person, then we enter more phases and you'd rather it end here than risk losing another phase.

You didnt. YOu gave a reason to scum read me and I explained how its bad and wrong.

Except you haven't - you've told me I'm wrong, but if your reason is the above quote I've looked into, then your point is faulted and your argument void.

277 is just... weird. You haven't actually shown where I've slipped at all. I'm using a logical argument (You are red, Bert is red, if you were blue, then red would come on here and hammer as they don't care who is lynched as long as its not them, but since you and Bert were both online and posting and I voted, Bert can't be red since he would vote you given his complete disregard for who is lynched on what day which I'll come to later) and you're saying its a slip?

Puh-lease You're doing this:



274 indicates to me that you've lost your nerve. Had Bert jumped on (although he does later) your entire team is on show, and we can then proceed to pick you off one at a time. You thought one of the others (Molla, Honey) would side with you and then Bert would hammer. They haven't, and now you're backtracking as I've identified how shaky your argument is.

Finally, if I was red, why the fuck would I lead a lynch on Boon given it was almost 99% certain he'd nail Nespresso, who ended up being the Red Godfather? That's just fucking stupid and makes no sense at all. Bussing a team member in this game is a quick way to guarantee a loss. I'd go someone else, wouldn't I. Have a think about it.

Bert:

Spoiler:

Answering 275 - I'm not suggesting you should feel rushed to vote. I'm suggesting in both D1 and D2 you've basically lynched whoever was on the table with no discretion. Yet now, when I propose a pretty strong argument, you have basically held off, held off, held off some more, held off again, and then you vote me in 282 using the same logic you used in D1 and D2. This logic is 'Statistics show we will by sheer probability hit scum, so what the hell - I'll lynch someone.' You vote me, despite voicing no argument as to whether I'm blue or not (I assume you're following ZZZX's logic? Convenient).

I can't be any more certain you and ZZZX are mafia. 284 is a fucken joke - 'Oh, I don't need to read the game. What if Molla and Drew are blue?' Based on what?!

If I had two votes one would be on ZZZX and the other would be on Bert. I am that certain.

[Drew-Sta]

@ ZZZX: Bullshit. I just inverted your argument. Now you're stretching big time.

You claim I'm blue, and that you're town. Which means your argument is (der) based on me being blue and you not being red.

I'm claiming you are red, and Bert is your buddy, because Bert has not voted for you despite me doing so. If Bert was red and you weren't, he'd vote you and his partner would hammer.

My argument is simply the inversion of your claim. The difference is I have onus of proof as I claimed this D2, and have backed it up again.

IF I was red you know that blue mafia wins automatically if I get lynched if I were red? Are you THAT bad not to see this.

Fucker. Typo here:

Now, this assumption is that you are blue mafia. I believe you are. HOWEVER! If I am wrong, which I am willing to negotiate if others can advise that my theory on you and Bert is wrong, the scenario's still stand and it is more a case of finding a

red

.

Should be 'blue'.

[Drew-Sta]

Fucking fucking fucking colours. Ghey.

(You are

blue

, Bert is

blue

, if you were

red

, then

blue

would come on here and hammer as they don't care who is lynched as long as its not them, but since you and Bert were both online and posting and I voted, Bert can't be red since he would vote you given his complete disregard for who is lynched on what day which I'll come to later) and you're saying its a slip?

I have bolded my changes. I keep fucking up my reds and blues.

[Bert]

oh wow

UNVOTE:

why do both of you look like you scumslipped?

also, why is no one voting me?

[Drew-Sta]

oh wow

UNVOTE:

why do both of you look like you scumslipped?

also, why is no one voting me?

Slipped? Where? Seriously, I want someone to point directly to the sentence. I genuinely can't see what you're suggesting.

RE not voting you, I would but believe ZZZX is the stronger case right now. Particularly since you didn't vote him. If my theory is right, then there's a chance you'd bus your goon if you were Godfather, but you wouldn't bus your Godfather.

[Bert]

i dont think either is probably a real slip, but you guys are pushing it as such

[Bert]

why would i rush to vote someone in LYLO, like 2 hours in?

[Drew-Sta]

i dont think either is probably a real slip, but you guys are pushing it as such

why would i rush to vote someone in LYLO, like 2 hours in?

[Bert]

like, you know there's a statistic that the faction of the person who votes first in LYLO loses like 70% of the time? leading out isn't really optimal unless someone is obvscum or near that degree

ZZZX or anyone else doesn't fit in that category

[Bert]

it's really easy to have a "slip" because this game's multi-ball and there are two teams that are already named conveniently red and blue.

[Bert]

from my POV, at least one of you is faking "finding a slip" of the other person being blue.

so it's something that can be faked, and painted as such

wouldn't you question if two people started pointing out what look like slips. unless you think it's a huge cross bus between partners.

[Drew-Sta]

i dont think either is probably a real slip, but you guys are pushing it as such

I'm not pushing anything as a slip. ZZZX has said I slipped. You actually said 'why does it look like you've slipped?'

Why do you two keep saying I've scum slipped and yet I cannot for the life of me see what you're talking about?

why would i rush to vote someone in LYLO, like 2 hours in?

Why did you hammer Boon when we were 45 minutes into Daay 2?

Do you realise you and ZZZX were the last two to vote? Within about 10 minutes of each other?

You're completely at odds here. In D1 and D2 you've pushed to lynch anyone for anything, yet now we're looking to push ZZZX you're like 'Oh woah, hang on, lets not rush into things here...'

Are people seeing this?

[Bert]

well it's LYLO now, that's different.

I hammered Boon because he was inevitably the slam dunk lynch for quickhammering D1.

Why do you two keep saying I've scum slipped and yet I cannot for the life of me see what you're talking about?

I'm definitely voting for you, because what you pointed out about ZZZX slipping is pretty much what ZZZX pointed out about your posts.

I don't see how town-you can't see that.