In post 2020, Speaker for the Dead wrote:nero - I waffle between towntowntown but wait lets see a scumflip. cos nero is a vet and knows how to play on people but I am wondering why he is not interacting with us more.
I think you said some pretty questionable things earlier and I asked you about them but then all I got was muffin calling me stupid.
In post 2020, Speaker for the Dead wrote:ulf - does anybody else find it weird how every1 is staying away from them? muffina has been the only 1 with balls enough to go after them
*clears throat*
I
was the first to go after him. I don't remember Muffin saying anything about them but I can't remember anything useful he's said or done. I think they are pretty scummy especially for this convo from our pt....
MS: Titus is scum
Nero: So why are you not voting her?
MS: Are you stupid, we predicted eek today.
Nero: So why aren't you voting him?
Nero: I think your refusal to adapt to the gamestate is scummy
MS: This pt is so dead 'cause no one wants to respond to your shit.
So what would you like to talk about, Mollie?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
how many games have you played with ika and titus?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
In post 1901, Venmar wrote:We lynch Titus because everything else in this thread is boring asf
Can you just claim lyncher or scum? Thanks.
Neither. I'm kinda wondering if your win condition is to lynch Venmar
~Rogueh
"titus is town"
if you can even think she's a lyncher or scum of any sort
why
are
you
refusing
to vote her
like. she was completely flailing desperate scum and since i left and it seems a lot of the pressure from eek and others has, she's been frustratingly smug in a "haha, i'm free~" kind of way.
also in case i didn't say it earlier, my townread on venmar isn't actually mostly because of titus' "scumread" on him but because his early fuckups and lax gameplay so far remind me a lot of me in a few of my towngames in which i could not give a shit for a long while.
-marquis
Quand il crache son souffle brûlant, la flamme au bout de sa queue s'embrase.
Criticizing me for not omg townreading you while I have more reads than you, Venmar and Eek combined.
i'm looking through isos to make an important post, but first- rereading this, it's pretty much "i'm town and you're not because i have ~~reads~~!"
just because you're good at faking a lot of reads does not make you town and trying to push the angle of you being "obvtown" because you have reads, and that i am "obvscum" because i, oops, have focused on mostly her being near confscum and not had the attention to give to a significant amount of other reads is...... no. is no.
-marquis
Quand il crache son souffle brûlant, la flamme au bout de sa queue s'embrase.
ok so i said in the neighborhood that i would stop focusing on titus but just to cement this so i won't have to say it again here is why she is scum:
1) in the neighborhood, she gave out vibes of trying to "own" bork's early game plans. as in the way she was all over it, kind of criticizing it but also i think agreeing with it a bit felt like she was trying not to make people upset by going aainst it, but trying to align herself with it while subtly trying to stop the plans as they would have easily helped town gain objectives. in the meantime this also made it feel like she was trying to fake putting work into it, like she was trying to make it appear like she
2) back when eek was all "lynch me okay, but as long as titus hammers". eek kept saying for titus to hammer- let's quote these
Spoiler: really gross eek and titus hammer discussion, gross on titus' part because she obstinately refuses to hammer while giving bullshit reasons
In post 815, Titus wrote:Venmar, there's only so many times you can run from content requests before people get suspicious.
Feu, I was highlighting the hypocrisy. Criticizing me for not omg townreading you while I have more reads than you, Venmar and Eek combined.
In post 823, My Milked Eek wrote:Ok, first things first. Everybody unvotes me so that one of my neighborhood can vote me. People keeping their vote on me and not allowing my hood to get the sensor today are scumclaiming.
In post 825, My Milked Eek wrote:That should do it, but I want Titus to hammer me. If rogue could also unvote.
In post 826, Titus wrote:I am already in first position after Jiffy. So basically Jiffy needs to unvote and revote. Nice not subtle attack on Jiffy.
Now revote Jiffy.
Why is it so important I hammer you?
In post 827, Titus wrote:I think that's an obvious ploy to get his whole wagoned cleaned. I am first for sensor so it is no problem.
In post 828, My Milked Eek wrote:Let's just call it symbolic reasons. Nothing you need to concern yourself with until after my flip.
In post 829, My Milked Eek wrote:Are you saying we're not lynching me now? What? I played dumb, but I'm not dumb. Unvote and you're going to hammer me.
In post 830, Titus wrote:No. I am fine ensuring we get the sensor and lynch scum. I don't need hammer.
In post 831, Titus wrote:I think Feu should hammer. You should get on your wagon to help us get it.
In post 834, My Milked Eek wrote:I decide and you're going to hammer Titus. Refusal is a scumclaim.
In post 838, Titus wrote:Lol. Eek. Refusal to what my scumread wants is a scumclaim. Lol nope.
Now I have to do some work to really derail my wagon onto Titus.
See. Told you it was all aboyt saving Eek.
Not moving.
In post 939, My Milked Eek wrote:I'm scum because I wanted to optimize the hammer order and I wanted to give us a sensor N1? Get real and stop grasping.
In post 942, Titus wrote:There is town motivation. It is called I want EEK SCUM DEAD.
Let's call it symbolic reasons. (already answered this)
In post 970, Titus wrote:My god can you people not see the eek desperation...
I am serious why does which member being in front matter so much.
Oh and another scumread suggests I am fucking over town...
In post 972, Titus wrote:I have no intentions of being hammer, nor of letting scum control eek lynch. I don't care if I get suspected. Town is in control. If we are stupid, well cannot fix stupid.
Let's call it symbolic reasons. (already answered this)
Your symbol is a scum role pm.
In post 977, Titus wrote:Letting Feu be in control places scum in control of objectives.
In post 987, My Milked Eek wrote:Doesn't matter when. Or that you did, just wanted to make sure you did.
In post 989, Titus wrote:Right because you have no real reasons for wanting me to unvote beyond saving yourself, fucking over objectives and painting me as scum when I refuse.
In post 989, Titus wrote:Right because you have no real reasons for wanting me to unvote beyond saving yourself, fucking over objectives and painting me as scum when I refuse.
Then don't refuse. If you think I'm scum this would have happened:
1. We'd have the correct prediction
2. I'd have been sandwhiched (oh my!)
3. We'd all be on the wagon
-> you'd have had the sensor.
Your refusal of hammering me is in direct contradiction with you scumreading me.
In post 994, Titus wrote:I have 1 through 3 without unvoting. Unvoting puts me further away from achieving town objectives.
In post 995, Titus wrote:Feu unvotes and 1 through 3 are fucked.
In post 996, My Milked Eek wrote:So, you think I'm scum and feu is scum and just beofr I'm hammer he'd unvote?
In post 997, My Milked Eek wrote:Not only having one scum at L-1, but the second outed for obviously sabotaging the targets?
In post 999, My Milked Eek wrote:Is this your objection to hammering me? Your scumread? Seriously?
In post 1001, Titus wrote:He would come up with plausible deniability long before hand.
If Feu unvotes, you wagon has to be totally undone to get you lynched and get objectives.
In post 1002, Titus wrote:If Brian or Bork is behind me, I will be hammer.
In post 1003, My Milked Eek wrote:lol no. If he would have unvoted, he'd have outed himself as scum (if he is scum).
In post 1004, My Milked Eek wrote:Yeah, we're not doing the eek wagon anymore. You derailed it. (lol)
In post 1019, My Milked Eek wrote:If you didn't trust feu you could have asked somebody else to take the front, like bork or brian.
so this is what's going on.
eek says to lynch himself, but as long as titus hammers.
titus says no.
eek asks titus why.
titus says she will not unvote her scumread. around this time in 831 she suggests that i hammer instead (this is important for later).
eek says that's ok she can just revote as the hammer.
titus says no. so they go back and forth again and again.
if you just open the spoiler you'll see how repetitive this gets.
eventually, titus comes up with a reason as to why she cannot hammer:
eek wants her to unvote because then the wagon would derail, and shift over to her. she also cannot trust me (feu) to stay on the wagon because i (feu) could just be scum and "save" eek by unvoting before she can hammer.
(871, 923, 931, 956, 960, 989, 995) (this was when people were still very set on getting the objectives, so she ignores how enough people are scumreading eek and there is enough that want to policy lynch him for #1)
(this is a bullshit reason because if i unvoted, it's not like the wagon would dissolve. there are people behind me to do objectives, and by me unvoting that would be claiming scum with eek which... well, titus? really? also, one unvote does not derail a wagon, that's just titus' desperation for reasons not to hammer talking)
again, lots of bullshit happens. so many posts of it.
one of my main points here is this:
i do not believe that titus went through this whole exchange, in a period of nearly 200 posts in which eek keeps saying "you can lynch me as long as titus hammers", without realizing that eek was hinting that he was a supersaint
.
this is what i have been referring to in 899 and many other posts- i hated how titus was playing dumb and pretending not to see the supersaint crumbs, just so she could get away with other reasons for not hammering and so she wouldn't have to address her desperate survivalism. i also have things about this that i want to talk about:
a) titus chooses to make bs reasons for not unvoting and not wanting to hammer. she does not acknowledge the supersaint claims, and this is a bit of a stretch, but i feel like titus was trying to get eek to get frustrated and just claim it outright, a form of rolefishing. not the strongest reason but it's a possibility
b) in 831, she questions why i can't hammer instead of her. this doesn't outright say that she knows the supersaint crumb. but in 945 and many others like it, she doesn't trust me to keep voting eek. the reason these two contradict is because she somehow doesn't expect me to stay as the first vote on eek, yet she expects me to be more capable of hammering than her??
this is scum survivalism- she obviously recognizes the supersaint hints, offers me up to die instead of her, and when that doesn't work out she returns to just being stubborn and refusing to admit she understands why eek wants her to hammer, instead trying to just paint eek as scum.
c) thinking titus probably knew about the supersaint crumbs (thinking about it now, she was the first to name it in our neighborhood so she did pick up on it as some point), how she reacted to eek is very scummy too. when eek wants her to hammer, she immediately goes on the defensive.
she pushes aside all of eek's posts about being okay with being the lynch, and just yells over and over that eek is trying to derail the wagon on him. doesn't make sense because that would be completely obvious. titus is scum and her only option at this point was just to paint eek as scum, hoping people wouldn't listen to him and want her to hammer too
3) suddenly, after eek shifts suspicion away from titus and onto me in our neighborhood, titus magically starts working with eek on my wagon as if eek's a good townread and not just someone whose lynch and wagon she was screaming for earlier
sleep time.
tl;dr - titus is scum and the main reason for this is her scum-survivalism-through-fake-ignorance (includes "why does it make a difference if i hammer you" at least 10 times) regarding eek's "hammer me" bit, and titus is not dumb/inexperienced enough to not recognize such an obvious supersaint crumb
preview edit. i don't know when i'm going to log back in on this account so i might as well say this now:
venmar is town. do not lynch him.
ika is town. do not lynch him but not on the level of venmar town tho.
bork is town, but if there's even a chance you're going to think about lynching him.
eek is still prob~town but the supersaint vs. vt thing is getting on my nerves right now. i really liked him earlier but also right now after the reread and iso i'm not sure not much of it was me just liking him on the basis of "if he's a supersaint and we can kill titus yesssssssss" and how much was just him agreeing with me on titus scum in general too.
i really want to call notscience/rogue town.
but.
(this is important.)
notsci just came back from a break from the site. i don't know if that was enough time to change meta, and i might just be paranoid about this, but lately i've been thinking "what if somehow since he's come back he's been more able to play comfortably as scum".
this is what i did and my new attitude toward a scumgame allowed me to like, have the force of will, to win quickness mafia.
seeing as the only reasons i can recall for my original townreads of notsci are "posts a lot"- seeing as how that was the only thing i needed earlier to call them town, right now i'm not sure how to explain it without using the word paranoia but like- if notsci has been able to improve his scumgame that much, so much that he can post a lot as scum now and not lurk, maybe just "bravo to you"? idk how much of a possibility this is, but watching out for it.
this is in part because i really need to stop letting "strong" meta tells overwhelm actual in-thread-and-in-thread-only evidence for an incorrect read.
in any case i'm nowhere near wanting to lynch rogue. but this is also for my reference later on, again in case rogue/notsci is supposed to be really obvious scum but i can't see it because i'm stuck with "notscience would only post this much as town, so he must be town even if there's a gunsmith guilty on him"
(yeah that's right ns i am admitting that my reads can be flawed too/more than yours at times deal with it)
(this is also me saying i forgive you for dark age reads, not that there was anything to forgive)
(maybe instead of forgive i should say "i'm going to try and get over it" because i really should by now)
on the whole toogeloo thing, i'm concerned about people putting him as "really obviously town". this is probably because it just feels unfair to me if he's scum. if the state of the game is such that scum can instantly ruin chances for neighborhoods to activate these powers, and easily get away with it due to "oh he was just frustrated town nothing to worry about" .... well basically i think what i'm trying to say here is that there's a huge part of me that's saying i don't want to risk the chance that he's scum and want to lynch him really hard because if he gets a scumwin by doing what he did and getting away with it i will be upset.
overall null on toogeloo not because i have reasons to read him as both alignments, but because i am forcing myself to leave that to other people. if i gave myself a chance to "read" him it would probably be blurred by me kind of really not wanting to let him live just for that thing.
in the neighborhood i've had to say multiple times not to policy lynch metal sonic. i still stand by that, even if i don't remember his posts that much. copy and pasting:
"1) metal refuses to give read reasons a lot, get over it, it's a playstyle
2) i asked not to policy lynch metal sonic just because he's metal sonic. i don't understand why so many people think he's a horrible player when time after time he's proved he can play and town/scumread well, and a conclusion of mine is that his posting style translates to a lot of people as "oh, just a dumb derp player" when they don't bother to look behind that and actually look at his actually valid playstyle"
translation: metal is metal. don't policy lynch him, doesn't mean he's not scum, just find better reasons than you usually would? idk. i value his reads so there's that (seriously so many times he's been lynchbait but lynchbait with crazy good reads in postgame hindsight), probably another player i'm going to hold off trying to read. nulltown for the heck of it just because i actually don't want to lynch him any time soon (surprise, surprise!)
don't worry though i have faith in my abilities to quickly weed out metal scum if it chooses to show its face (it hasn't, at least from what i remember)
speaking of players who i don't remember posts by, brian skies. and he's in my neighborhood. simple nullscum. i think.
there might have been something there early game that made me feel good, but that might have been someone else.
cloud 9 i want to say scum. idk why. maybe just because lots of people have been saying it and the people that have been saying it aren't really close to scumreads of mine (rogue, i think?). idk. my reasons on this are probably the shakiest of all.
nat+sala ... i recently mislynched nat for slight inactivity.
i d e k. shaky as i said. wouldn't care if they got lynched as long as titus is already dead and as long as i won't have to take the blame if it's another mislynch.
that might just be because it's 2 am though so good night and see this game later probably? yeah later
preview edit again............................................................... that's a wall.
welp sleep time.
-marquis
Quand il crache son souffle brûlant, la flamme au bout de sa queue s'embrase.
PV has finally joined us in the Neighborhood, and as a result, we've nearly doubled our page count in there.
My updated reads list, which we also discussed in the Neighborhood:
1. Speaker for the Dead (pirate mollie + zMuffinMan)*
(no real issues)
2. Clusk92*
(want dead, but no real read on slot)
3. Macaronis and Cheese (Prof Fridays + Aronis)*
(no real issues)
4. Cloud Nine (Natirasha + Salamence20)*
(want dead)
5. Majiffy*
(flip flopping. I though he could be scum earlier)
6. Rogue (Malakittens + notscience)*
(Town imho)
7. My Milked Eek*
(Thought he was town, voted for him to be the day's lynch because that was where we were heading, still kind of lean town on him).
8. Ultimate Life Form (Metal Sonic + Mastin2)*
(Null)
9. Feu et Vol (beastcharizard + Marquis)*
(Flip flopping. Was a slight town lean, now kind of back to null)
10. borkjerfkin*
(Town imho)
12. SnowStorm*
(Null)
13. Sharpest-knife-on-tree*
(Null)
14. RubikAshtray*
(Leaning town)
15. Venmar*
(Town imho)
16. Nero Cain*
(Leaning scum)
17. PeregrineV*
(Null)
18. Brian Skies*
(Null)
19. Titus*
(Was leaning scum, but becoming less and less inclined to lynch her)
20. ika*
(Town imho)
Reads explained...
TOWN
-Rogue: I've had a positive read since the Neighborhood started. Very engaging, sees the same things I do in people, I feel like we are on the same wavelength. My number 1 town read in our Hood.
-Eek: Something about the "greater good" that he was going on about, encouraging people to put him down as the predicted lynch. Too strong of a gambit for scum to take. If he were scum, and the plan had gone accordingly, he would have assisted in completing several objectives for people in the appropriate hoods. The risk didn't really outweigh the reward for a scum gambit.
-bork: I haven't had a problem with bork as an individual all game. I feel his reaction to my antics yesterday were appropriate, and in general, his posting has been in a direction he felt was for the greater good of town. Of course, the entirety of the first part of the day had me continually thinking this the entire time: The Greater Good
-Rubik: The person I trust second in our Hood at the moment. It's a neighborhood thing though. He needs to post more in the main thread, but his discussions in the Hood have been some what settling.
-Venmar: I think his early game still lets him hold his towniness, though I wish he would troll less as it's basically allowing vast majority of his content to be construed as fluffy.
-ika: I got the early impression that his take on the game was the same as mine. I too was was interested in the possibility of flavor relations for the game setup, especially considering the Hood I was placed in. This is more of a biased town read though because of our similar brain waves, and in general his content hasn't really been all
that
noteworthy. Still, I have no inclination to lynch him any time soon.
SCUM
-Clusk: It's impossible to call this a scum read because there's literally nothing to read from this slot. He has been able to get away with an early RVS vote, and then disappear, but he has since been prodded and still not returned, so it's impossible to say that he is just lurking scum at this point. In all reality, he's just a waste of a player slot, and that is not alignment indicative, so all we have to judge him on is his limited posts which sucked.
-Cloud 9: I've made my case on Cloud already, nothing they have done has changed my position in any way. Their push to PL Skot, their sideline jabs in RVS, their omgus of Rogue (stating Rogue called everyone scum in the Hood) when Rogue started to call them out on bullshit, and then their disappearing act only to reappear the moment I shake the game up and they start to get votes. Even now, they don't make any defense of themselves, and appear just active enough to not completely disappear, but not active enough that they are afraid to get a few more votes for something they might say.
-Majiffy: I really didn't get the Eek wagon he started, and how it came from out of nowhere, which then developed into the #1 predicted Day 1 lynch of the game. He didn't even really push that hard, and I think it all boiled down to a generalized Policy Lynch which even Eek seemed to have drank the Kool-aid and believed was a good idea. His play has been rather passive in general, and I know Majiffy is capable of being far more active, especially as town. His frustration seemed pretty believable though when I flushed the objectives, and he's commented a few times (I think) about how he's disinterested in the game, so it could just be lack of effort. This is where I start flip flopping on the slot.
-Titus: Her early game was really off-putting, and I still don't trust her, but something just smells off about her possible lynch. People keep trying come back around to it, almost as if the moment scum could be under scrutiny, the possibility of a Titus lynch is brought back up. I'm not feeling inclined to lynch her today for that reason alone.
I probably won't be around much tomorrow, and I will be without internet for 4 days starting Thursday. So I will be V/LA until my trip is over.
In post 2044, Toogeloo wrote:-Cloud 9: I've made my case on Cloud already, nothing they have done has changed my position in any way. Their push to PL Skot, their sideline jabs in RVS, their omgus of Rogue (stating Rogue called everyone scum in the Hood) when Rogue started to call them out on bullshit, and then
their disappearing act only to reappear the moment I shake the game up and they start to get votes.
Even now, they don't make any defense of themselves, and appear just active enough to not completely disappear, but not active enough that they are afraid to get a few more votes for something they might say.
Dude, I'm going to call super bullshit on this. We posted when the game started, you did your case in the middle when we were out and about, and then started posting immediately when I got on a pc again. Sorry I'm not online 24/7 during the day.
Seriously, that's like, what the flying fuck. The rest of this little bloc is almost as bad.
-push to PL SKOT was strictly due to the game mechanics. Oh no! I, a player who prides herself on her ability to play with game mechanics, is trying to utilize a game mechanic. Sue me.
-sideline jabs, sure. I guess I can't argue that's what they are.
-not sure where you're going with the Rogue thing.
-I'm active lurking, yes. I do that on day ones, especially when there are eighty pages within seventy hours of the game started.
tldr the outcasts are going to be in a constant state of 'go fuck each other'
this is the game where i incorrectly read her at first then get into a huge pissoff with the confirmed town late game.
ive not only been burned by titus many times, but she has also pushed me past my limits many times. compare iso in WH and mine she makes the very same refrence on day 1: fuzzylogic.
she already has said one of the players is "biased" for being "burned" by her scum games so much she has done this in about every scum game.
a lot of her scum games seem to carry consitiencys when defending herself by repeating sevral phrases and such. she has also said many times shes trying to break out of tunnel mode.
i dont want to do this dance over again, if anything this will be good idea to look into who soft defended her (Nero), if shes town i figure scums would whitenight her (but not in an extreme matter) as some has shown.
if people want o keeper around, fine. go ahead. ive been wrong before. but if she is scum theres a good chance she will try to aim at me edventaly and im not gonna want to make this dance yet again.
where i find scums (snow is a stong canidate) is merly by posts and what i see as scum many times. his "oh i now have scum reads" is a common newb scum thing they will say b/c they cant have any "real" scum reads (unless if they are bussing allies/distancing/ect)
