Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[Skruffs]

Primate, why was it annoying?? You're the one who forced a mislynch with a bad counterclaim.

[Miztef]

Hrm. Conditional night actions. Interesting. I'm willing to add my resources to your train on theopor.

vote theopor_cod

hooray, participation!

[Miztef]

Primate, why was it annoying?? You're the one who forced a mislynch with a bad counterclaim.

I'm not sure what this is referring to... can you elaborate?

[Miztef]

Can I suggest a deadline on this game? No one seems to be participating so I think a deadline would be best.

[massive]

I suggested it weeks ago. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone's listening.

[bertrand]

A deadline has been set for May 27, 2007 at midnight. At that point, whoever has the most votes will be lynched, as long as that person has at least 3 votes. If two or more players are tied at more than 3 votes, all will be lynched.

That gives you two weeks.

[Skruffs]

Primate said that he has two lives - and that for some reason this makes Zindaras' two players very scummy. GLork pushed hard for a zindaras lynch, sayign that if he turns up town, he would be trying very hard in the morrow to not let Primate get away with it.
Now that I know Glork didn't target Primate last night, he has no more reason now to think primate is town than he did yesterday, and yet he has basically demurred on this.
Bait and Switch, and I don't like it.

Vote : Glork

woo

[Glork]

Feh. No time for a proper post right now. But Skruffs, you are either completely insane, or you are scum. You should know exactly what role I have, and there is no reason for you to be voting me. Stop and

think

for a minute.

[Skruffs]

As far as I know, that was a one shot thingie, so no, I have no idea what role you have - I jsut know of one thing you did.
Based on your reaction to it, and everything else you said before vs after it, yeah, I don't think I'm being insane at all. And I'm not scum regardless of how I behave.

[Miztef]

This is interesting... I'm thinking neither glork or skruffs is scum here though. I don't understand exactly what happened in that incident, but Glork has been pretty pro-town in my eyes throughout the game. I may need a reread of the thread to understand this better though.

I'm happy with my theo vote right now, so I just want to hear others opinions here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Interesting Miztef, why would you say Glork is "pretty pro-town"?

[Glork]

As far as I know, that was a one shot thingie, so no, I have no idea what role you have - I jsut know of one thing you did.

If you really think that A) My ability is one-shot; and B) You don't know my role, then you're far less intelligent than I've been giving you credit for. Or you're very good at playing dumb.

Have you examined what you recieved in complete, thorough detail? Have you examined DP's reaction/response to it? Have you looked at all of the evidence in-thread to draw some conclusion as to the

significance

of how I am choosing go about doing things?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you sound frightfully like I do when i'm scum and leading town on wild goose chase.

<3

[Carbon Copy]

THat Aside, if this were a regular game, I would be voting and pushing for Glork to be lynched, and if he came up as scum, to get Primate lynched (twice if necessary, too). IT's not though, it's a crazy game. A game with lots of doubles. A double liver, a double player, a double voted, someone who takes 1/double the votes to lynch...

This is a very interesting theory, Skruffy.

Why do you think phoebus was hit by scum and thesp was vigged?

I...don't know. There was probably some interesting train of thought I was following at that point, or I was simply not paying attention, but I don't know.

I also explained that I would not have expected Primate to counterclaim in the manner he did if he were scum. I still hold true to that belief, at least for now, which is why I haven't bothered to go after him. I'm not pushing the idea out of my mind completely -- my reasons for saying I find Primate to be pro-town are entirely WIFOM-based -- but he is not currently at the top of my list.

Then why did you say you would lynch Primate if I came up town?

Z'O.K., I took a look at Primate. At first, the was agreeing that CC was a more experienced player, which turned out to be the case. But then he was particularly rabid against both Zindie and CC. Especially since Primate reckoned that his own role was nearly identical to Zindie/CC. But Primate's role should be rather provable. It think it's too risky a claim for scum to make. Is there much incentive to test his role? It seems like a rather Townie power. If we confirm him, he might be nightkilled anyway. But then it's strange that he wasn't nightkilled already - maybe the scum was slacking, I dunno. I don't think Primate is scum. His being scum would be a long shot.

Proving his role will not prove his alignment.

good call massive
what do you think carbon copy? Did you sell your townie half down the stream?

What?

Carbon Copy actually received a gift n0, but I don' tthink anyone here knows what it does, and I don' tbelieve he's suggested if he's used it or whatnot.

The only thing I've said is that I have it and that I will not say what it does, or if it even does anything. That will be all.

ZI have a bad feeling about the pussycats that have two bodies, like CC and Zindie. A bad feeling that one is the evil counterpart of the other.

In which case I could simply sell out the entire Mafia team Day 1.

Not that I would, to be completely honest.



I still think theopor is scummy. However, massive's vote there just reeks of 'wagoning.

FoS: Massive, Theopor

[DrippingGoofball]

In which case I could simply sell out the entire Mafia team Day 1.

Z'hahaha, I didn't think of that.

I am just sitting on the fence here, I don't think there's much of a case against Theo. The case against Glork is stronger, but he seems confident that he can prove his role to Skruffs.

Skruffs, it look like you have more info than the rest of us. Are you willing to share this info so that we can make up our minds independently? If you won't explain fully how you reached the conclusion that Glork is scum, I at least want to know how SURE you are. Would you stake your own life on it?

[Miztef]

Interesting Miztef, why would you say Glork is "pretty pro-town"?

I don't have to the time right now to pull up lots of evidence why, but basically I feel his overall play is that of a pro-town player. Clear, presents fair agruements, and logic is good. His confidence that skruffs can clear him seems pro-town as well. I'm not saying I'll rush to his defence if he is about to be lynched, but theo is higher on my scumlist atm.

[Glork]

This game bores me too much. Even without Skruffs' response to my most recent posts, I'm going to do something that I already think might be sub-optimal, but will at least get things going.

I am the Message-Sender. The responses in the Death Posts have been replies to my targets. N0 was Thesp. N1 was DP/Skruffs. More importantly, I am also the Cop. It should be apparent from the notes that were found that I ask questions in my messages. As long as one of them asks about the character/alignment in question, I will be told whether my target is legitimate or not. I am not a famous Cat. In fact, I don't even remember my rolename. But I look it up and claim it if necessary.

Both nights, my first question has been whether the player I targeted was 3-D (i.e., whether they were not-a-cartoon). The second question I asked DP was whether he thought DGB's post-restriction was genuine or not. I will leave the third question and the ensuing comment/note to Skruffs to reveal because I want him to acknowledge that he recieved the note properly. DP indicated this when his opinion of me went from "FoS for behaving suspiciously" to thinking I am pro-town, after I made Post 224 in which I essentially repeated/paraphrased the question I had asked in the overnight message.

Now, to explain the confusion with me going after DP at the onset of D2: When the mod first opened the day, he left out the message in the death scene

and

he failed to send me a message. I thought I had been blocked, but I PM'd the mod just in case. In the meantime, I concluded that me being blocked would have most likely been a result of DPscum getting the message overnight, then having a Mafia Roleblocker target somebody who was suspicious of him (read: me). I don't remember

why

I came to that conclusion, but I wanted to pressure DP a bit to see how he would respond. Not long after I voted DP and asked the mod, the post was edited and I got my reply. This is what I was referring to in Post 222 when I mentioned a mod error. Evidence of the existence of a mod-error can be seen in that the mod made the death scene at approximate 19:00 EST and edited it at approximately 22:30 EST. The mod noted that he added in the "small detail" in Post 213.


Anyway, there are two reasons that I targeted DP last night instead of Primate. First, the previous dual-life scumbags I have ever seen or known of have been

Godfather

roles. I concluded that an investigation on Primate would very likely result in an innocent result, so I decided to poke around somewhere

else

, where I thought I could get more information. The reason I targeted DP is because I saw in his posts here something htat I had noticed when he was scum in my Bond Villain Mafia -- he seemed to be refraining from contributing, but was able to make "I need to catch up on this game" type posts quite easily. I felt that he was avoiding discussion, which is something I thought he had been doing in Bond Villian Mafia.

There is one simple (though very important) reason that I do not want Primate lynched

today

. To me, the numbers dicatate that lynching elsewhere is the correct play:
Let us first assume the worst-case feasable scenario. There are three mafiates left, and there is an inaccurate and active vigilante. If we "lynch" Primate today and he does not die, we will go into night with 9 players left. If there are two mis-kills, there will be 7 alive tomorrow with 3 scums still out there. A second lynch on Primate means that, if we were wrong about his being scum, we lose. If we "lynch" Primate today, unless the vigilante kills him overnight, we would potentially be staking the

entire game

on him being scum. I am not yet willing to make that commitment.
Now, consider the case where we lynch elsewhere. If we mislynch somebody, then we will go into night with 8 alive. The Vigilante's

ONLY

proper move would be to target Primate, thereby reducing him to a single life. More importantly, there would only be one death, and we will be in a very similar situation as if we had lynched Primate, except for one

very significant

difference. We would have the info gained from a lynchee (i.e., a suspicious player) even if we mislynch, rather than the info from an added vig/miskill. Furthermore, the discussion leading up to our D2 lynch will provide us with more information to go on tomorrow. I can't see any benefit to failing-to-lynch-Primate today.

I am still very confident that Theopor is scum. I am also fairly confident that one of Primate/Skruffs is scum -- likely (or necessarily) a Godfather, if true. I'm not yet sure who I think the third scum is, but I think that it's likely one of Pooky/DGB/Massive.

I'm still wary of Primate's behavior regarding Zindaras, but I still find myself sitting on the fence with regards to it. Skruffs' behavior, especially recently, bothers me a lot, though. I get the distinct feeling that he is attempting to pit me against Primate. Either get me to go after Primate, or accuse me of being scum using a Bait-and-Switch maneuver. Furthermore, given my pressure on Theo throughout the day, I also begin to wonder if Skruffs' behavior is an attempt to get me to Primate not only because that'd be a "mislynch," but because it would get pressure away from his scumbuddy Theo.

Now, I have some questions for Skruffs:
-Did you recognize that I am the message-sender? If so, when exactly did you realize that this was the case (i.e., after what post or at what point in time did you decide that I was the message-sender)?
-If you did

not

think that I was the message-sender, how do you know that I targeted DP and that I was able to hint at the DGB post-restriction question?
-If you

did

think that I was the message-sender, why on earth did you say that my ability was one-shot, when there was a message left after N0, and when Thesp

claimed

to have left that message?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Glork, why do you think Miztef is innocent?

[Glork]

...incorrect regarding what? Skruffs?

I don't necessarily think he's incorrect regarding Skruffs; I'm not ready to conclude anything about him one way or another. But knowing what I know about the exchange between me/DP and me/Skruffs, I understand why Miztef thinks Skruffs is pro-town and why I have my doubts.

[Skruffs]

As far as I know, that was a one shot thingie, so no, I have no idea what role you have - I jsut know of one thing you did.

If you really think that A) My ability is one-shot; and B) You don't know my role, then you're far less intelligent than I've been giving you credit for. Or you're very good at playing dumb.

Have you examined what you recieved in complete, thorough detail? Have you examined DP's reaction/response to it? Have you looked at all of the evidence in-thread to draw some conclusion as to the

significance

of how I am choosing go about doing things?

I'm wondering if there is a misunderstanding going on here. If it's not a one-shot, why is there only proof of it having happened once? It didn't happen night one... at least, not that anyone's mentioned - then why wouldn't I think it's not one shot? Why did you vote me at the beginning of the day? It makes me think you are tryign to get rid of people who don't agree with you. Look at what you said the day before and how YOU reacted, and you should be able to see why I'm voting you now.

There's a lot of other stuff I need to address, but my time online is limited for the next couple days. <3 u all though.

[Skruffs]

Bleh,a nd for the record, yes, I confused a few things up, but I reviewed things nad while it makes more sense I still don't like your reactions to it, glork.

[Glork]

...I'm going to assume that you didn't read the post in which I claimed. Please re-post once you have read that post in full. <3

[Skruffs]

Okay, I read your claim.
First of all, yoru message indicates that you can tell if answers are truthful or not. The third question was wether DP thought Primate was scum or not - the answer being maybe. The reason I am suspicious of you is because you took Primate's side day one, forced a zindaras lynch, asked me if I was 3d - sayign that you would KNOW if I Was being truthful or not - and then voted me when I answered truthfully - and I am assumign you are voting me because you don't like that I said "maybe" to primate being scum or not. To be hoenst, I couldn't care less aboug DGB's post restriction and I doubt that you significantly care about it either. I made a mistake because I thought the answer on page one - with the "say something sweet, I will too!" was a message from you. I don't know why those thoughts got crossed in my head, but that's why I've been waiting for someone to 'confirm' by saying something nice ot me. Nobody did. See above with teh picture of the white cat named sugar and all that crap. Very confusing for me.

I think you are assuming too much, and that's another reason I am suspicious of you. Suddenly I may be a godfather even though you apparently got an innocent on me? Or maybe Primate is? Naw. Saying "Either Zindaras or Primate is scum, let's lynch Zindaras" day one, and then saying "Either SKruffs or Primate is scum, I don't know which" day two, that's, that's very , very scummy, in my eyes.

Either Primate is tellign the truth about being able to revive once, or, he's gambitting scum who knows town won't waste lynches on him and you are pushing that to try and get another townie mislynched. I think it's odd that you just take his claim at face value and then decide that he might be scum or who can't be investigated. That's not logical, at all.

I am 92% sure that mafia killed Thesp last night.

[DrippingGoofball]

Zwhoa! Message-sender AND cop??? What's the general wisdom about roles like Flying Pumpkin that Shoots Lasers??? Are these usually made up by scum with mucho imagination? Are you omitting some other abilities, like "immune to nightkills" which is a favorite scumclaim?

Funny thing is, I sorta believe it, but I am feeling like a complete fool. Believing this claim makes me feel like I just the Brooklyn Bridge from Glork.

Why oh why...

[theopor_COD]

Can someone outline a proper case against me to answer against. Other than shifting my vote from one of Zindies characters to the other.

Glork your a message sender and cop hmm. And your not a famous cat, not one that you may have picked from random per chance?