Mini 430: Villagers and Vampires (GAME OVER!)

[aude omnia]

By and large I thought that was a very well-made rebuttal, Shanba. I think it would do us all some good to to remember that our own survival is not going to make or break the game. As far as the rules explain there are no cops or other pro-town roles, so we are expendable if it means tracing back connections to the lynch.

As for Zchinque, I would hate to think the vampire would make such an ill-thought out post. Unless that's some sort of weird double-bluff-- "The vampire would NEVER say something THAT obvious!"

This looks to be a very difficult game, and I apologize if I'm muddying the waters further. I see that pressure should be applied all around, I just need quite a lot of evidence before I'm willing to lynch.

[scotmany12]

aude, we cannot no lynch today. It will not help us at all. Today is our best chance on catching the vampire, and we have to use it to its full advantage. The longer this day goes on, the greater chance we have of hitting the vampire.

With that being said, I'm not feeling Zchinques last post, but also, aude, your post worries me a bit too. The part about how the vampire would never say something like that is what I am not liking. If there was two scum in this game, I would put both of you as partners right now. But since there is only one right now, I'm very confused.

So I'm going to do this and see where it leads.

Unvote, Vote: aude omnia

[aude omnia]

It'll lead nowhere. I can't say anything but that I have consistently tried to do what I think makes the most sense for the town. While everyone likes the ninth-inning tie-breaking home run, I still wouldn't bet my house on it, just as I would not bet on the possibility of rooting out the vamp today.

I don't think enough people realize that if we mislynch, that's 2 townsfolk lost-- 1 to death and 1 to the vampire. Not a good start. In fact, as bad as I can imagine.

[Zchinque]

I'm surprised I only got one vote from that post (until now). I think it says more about the activity level in this game, than about people's thoughts about me though.

I find it pretty suspicious that you dont care AT ALL who we lynch. I'm pretty sure any protown player here will have at least some suspicions for someone.

I didn't say I don't care AT ALL.
I'm pretty sure it's easier for the vampire to fake suspicion, than it is for the town to come up with a decent case.
I think that we are going around in circles, pointing fingers at "weird posts" and the like, without actually getting anywhere.

[Shanba]

[quote="Zchinque]I'm pretty sure it's easier for the vampire to fake suspicion, than it is for the town to come up with a decent case. [/quote] hrm... When Ive been scum, I've found it surprisingly hard to fake suspicion on another player and also to sound genuine about it.

[Phoebus]

I don't think enough people realize that if we mislynch, that's 2 townsfolk lost-- 1 to death and 1 to the vampire.

I find this point appealing but I would still rather take a chance on getting the scumlynch and a day 1 victory.

If that doesn't work, there are always connections to work on.

I will not switch back to aude yet since his reasoning is slightly appealing but his insistence is rather appalling. In my view, it does not help that he was willing to to vote someone else and then switched back.
With such (apparently) well thought out rules, I'd stick to my guns about a NL in your place. In the same way, I am sticking against a NL at this time.

[Chaosjuggler]

Agree with Phoebus on this one too - sure, we might lose two members to the Vamp, but tomorrow we can look for connections, and the chance of nailing the vamp is worth the risk.

No votes; sure, Zchnique's post was scummy, but was it regular scum-misplay scummy, or "over-the-top" scummy?

[Zchinque]

No votes; sure, Zchnique's post was scummy, but was it

regular scum-misplay scummy

, or "over-the-top" scummy?

Emphasis mine.
What do you mean by the part I have bolded? I'm not sure I'm quite following you.

I think we should lynch today, but I still hold that it'll be very close to a random lynch.
I suggest

not

lynching Aude or Phoebus.

I'm pretty sure it's easier for the vampire to fake suspicion, than it is for the town to come up with a decent case.

hrm... When Ive been scum, I've found it surprisingly hard to fake suspicion on another player and also to sound genuine about it.

(I fixed the quote tag, hope you don't mind.)

When I've been scum (only once so far, admittedly) I had no problem sounding sincere, at least it didn't feel like it. Anyway, that's besides the point.
What I mean is that so far most of the "cases" we've had has been "that post was weird" (Yesterdays), "I don't like that idea" (Aude), and/or "that [single*] post was scummy" (me).
These aren't real cases**, they're, at best, minor points against someone, in my opinion.
I believe it is easier for the vampire to create or join one of these "cases", than it is for the town to create a real case with much substance.

*At least people hasn't pointed out that my play is scummy, apart from that post, I believe.
**Disregarding the case against myself, I'm obviously biased on that one.

[Shanba]

Even these cases that you believe are so weak (personally I found the case on Yesterdays/yourself fairly strong, but w/e) give us information: a person's reaction to pressure can be very telling: for example, from yours and Yesterday's reactions I think Yesterday is more likely to be the vampire. That holds doubly true for Aude.

Anyway, you've already made assumptions that make it much less than a random lynch: by deciding aude and phoebus should not be lynched you've already narrowed down the possibilities of a lynch and therefore made it less random.

As for the vampire finding it easier to make these cases than the town, well that may be true but you should be able to glean information from the way they make these cases anyway. Any and all information is good for the town, as the scum already knows everything in this game.

Anyway.

unvote Vote: Yesterdays

[Snichkin]

I didn't understand why you vote yesterdays

[aude omnia]

for example, from yours and Yesterday's reactions I think Yesterday is more likely to be the vampire. That holds doubly true for Aude.

What exactly holds doubly true for me? I like keeping up with truth, especially in games of uncertainty.

As for the vampire finding it easier to make these cases than the town, well that may be true but you should be able to glean information from the way they make these cases anyway. Any and all information is good for the town, as the scum already knows everything in this game.

Anyway.

unvote Vote: Yesterdays

Okay, you just voted for Yesterdays without any kind of explanation as to why. If this is one of your pressure tests, go right ahead, but don't think this doesn't look silly.

Anyhow, I think Zchinque expressed my sentiment as well. However, I see this day will have to end in a lynch if only because of majority opinion. I do think we need to be wary, though, not just of the cases made but of who adopts them and why.

[Shanba]

Your reaction making you look likely town is what holds doubly true for you

My vote on Yesterdays was me going back to my original suspicions after having got some nice reactions from other players with pressure votes. I outlined why but I believe it was lost in the crash, so here it is again: his reaction to a couple of random votes was out of all proportion and feels like new scum getting overanxious (the post where he blew his lid is gone, unfortunately). Then the "does anyone have any leads?" post strikes me as looking for a way to jump on a meaty bandwagon without having to get his own hands dirty.

His post 9 is really quite scummy. "I was just trying to get something started" is a good way to wash your hands of any scummy things you've done without actually refuting the arguments against you, his claim that he is just a simple townsperson is an appeal to emotion and his third paragraph is all WIFOM logic.

Oh, and just because someone tells me that voting him isn't going to make the game go anywhere doesn't mean I'm going to stop voting him.

[Phoebus]

back sometime wednesday

[Snichkin]

unvote, vote:Shanba

FoS: Yesterdays

for lurking

[Shanba]

ya know, for someone who was worried about me voting for no reason there's surprisingly little reason in your own post.

[Elias_the_thief]

inconsistency ftw? fos: Snichkin.

[Phoebus]

back and *yawn*

[Snichkin]

you had no real reason to vote yesterdays (at least I didn't saw enough reason in your explanaition post)

[aude omnia]

Can anyone explain to me where this day should going? Because right now, it's not going anywhere.

[Shanba]

Where it's going currently is towards a deadline if we're not careful.

Snichkin: Seriously? I think my case against Snichkin is one of the strongest made so far this game. It's based on mutiple posts, for one thing, multiple points for another. Not only that, but ou even indicated you found him suspicious yourself (although for lurking). I'm puzzled by your reaction, but I think with only one scum at this point you cant be defending a scumbuddy and I'll chalk it up as questioning and inquisitve pro-town.

MOD: can we have a bucketload of prods?

[Zchinque]

And a

votecount

?

I'll wait for other people, and especially Yesterdays, to make some input before deciding what I want to do.

[Shanba]

Slowness... this game suffers from it muchly.
Zchinque: What do you think of my vote on Yesterday and Snichkin's reaction? Who do you think is scum and why?

Aude Omnia: Who do you currently think is suspicious? What do you think of Scotmany?

We need to get somewhere and you two seem active enough to actually answer my questions.

[Phoebus]

You're not going to get too far if you ask questions only of those who are active...

[Shanba]

I'm working on the premise that we need new stuff to discuss and we arent going to get it from the inactives because they're, well, inactive.

[Phoebus]

and if the active people have already spoken their mind, where do we get new stuff from?