Mini 1582: Formerfish's First Foray (Game Over)

[shinyskarmory]

Hi friends.

Vote: Nul

Second Vote: massive

Yes, seriously.

Well that's interesting.

VOTE: theelkspeaks

[shinyskarmory]

I'm not really happy with the bandwagoning on RVS. I mean, building a wagon off someone's REACTION to RVS would be fine, but a lot of people just kind of dumped their votes on Kitty for no reason at all. For example, in this post:

Vote: KittyMo

Second Vote: bjc

See, I can vote for people without saying anything too.

@KittyMo: Hi there. Who's your scumbuddy?

@bjc: What's up? Tell me about yourself.

@ILF: Hai. Vote for someone?

Grib votes KittyMo and demands a "scumbuddy" for no reason. Generally RVS doesn't last more then one vote per person, which is part of why I think his post is odd.

On the other hand, it isn't quite as bad in my mind as Boonskies jumping on the Kitty wagon with his very first post. I do agree with grib in that Boonskie's play is pretty suspicious, but at the moment I'm not sure if it's noob town or scum. Need more posts to analyze.

[shinyskarmory]

Oka, does Boon's experience level + follow-up posts change your opinion of him at all?

@skarmory

- massive asked you a question.

My mistake-I thought I posted an answer to that question but it never went through.

I wanted to see how the "double vote" was handled-for example, if the second vote is publicly counted with the name shown on both votes, then his role claim is instantly cleaned, which makes him significantly more likely to be town. If the other vote wasn't publicly displayed or was counted but not displayed, that would make him more likely to be mafia because he would only be partially cleaned (in that his role was confirmed to exist, NOT that he was confirmed to have it) and it's generally kind of crappy hosting to publically clean a mafia member.

For now, I'm going to UNVOTE: as my vote on theelkspeaks was RVS and it's no longer relevant. I will reevaluate my thoughts this evening.

[shinyskarmory]

Sorry for my low level of activity, I've been pretty busy in real life and haven't had as much time as I would have liked to play.

Regarding Grib and responses to my post about how to read his doublevote, I admit it's all meta. However, meta is a good way to get information to act on, especially on Day 1 when we have nothing else to go on other then people's posts. I'm pretty convinced that he is town now, though that opinion can always be reversed by additional information.

After looking at BJC's posts, I think he's done a very good job at not saying anything at all. His posts are one-liners and generally just taking snarky cracks at people who attacked him. I think he's an okay lynch today, although I'm going to leave him unvoted for now to prevent mafia from jumping in and hammering.

My favored lynches at the moment are:

BJC (He seems like a fairly good choice for reasons stated above and by others)
Shinobi (I'm REALLY not a fan of "I'm pretty content to be in the shadows" in his 7th post)

We could also use today's lynch to test Grib's doublevote. With his unique type of doublevote, a double hammer is theoretically possible as outlined by the wiki here: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Doublevoter. We can push our two most favored votes to L-1, and have Grib hammer them both. If he refuses, we can lynch one of the two without his help, then lynch him the next day if they come up scum. This would allow us to both confirm Grib's role as well as giving us twice as many chances of hitting scum. However, we also run the risk of losing two villagers right off the bat before night 1 even begins.

I know it's a risky plan, but I believe that it's an idea worth considering. Tell me what you think-I like this option, but I'm not committed to it and I'm willing to go for a regular lynch as well.

[shinyskarmory]

Just took a look at Oka's posts in isolation.

While Oka has posted a lot more often then me, his posts contain much less content. He hasn't posted more then one or two sentences in any post he's made and a lot of them have pretty much no potential for discussion creation at all (see his fourth, fifth, and eighth posts).

I want to see some actual content (i.e reads on at least a few players) from him in the next 24-36 hours or I'll put my vote on.

[shinyskarmory]

Wow.

So now posting not much is scummy?

Day 1 is harder to mass produce content. I am better with a lynch, or when stuff happens.

I literally opened that post by saying that you posted a lot more often then me. I don't care much about posting frequency (lurking can be for any number of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with the game at all). I care about content, and you haven't posted much of that at all. You don't need to post walls every post either, just post some reads or analysis.

Literally everyone is better after a lynch/daykill/whatever because it gives them something to react to and reevaluate their original reads with. That's no excuse for not trying. As a villager, I would rather see you post three to four reads (or analysis that's wildly off-base) and have every single one turn out wrong then have you sit there posting no reads and no analysis. When you post reads that later end up being incorrect, the village can analyze those reads, try to figure out your thought process, and maybe gain some information that could be useful to them. If you don't post any reads or analysis, then not only do you slow the village down in life, you prevent them from gaining information from your death.

(the above, by the way, is why lurking is considered a scumtell by most mafia players)

I ain't lurking.

I am questioning and doing what I am asked. Not walling everywhere is NOT scummy. Sometimes, especially day 1, walling is completely unnecessary.

You're not asking all that many questions, at least not ones that promote discussion.

Nobody is asking for a wall. We're asking for the bare minimum of village effort: that you choose three or four players and tell us what you think of them. On Day 3 or 4, if you're still around, nobody will give a crap about your reads on Day 1. The reason we care about them now is because

on day 1, reads and RVS reactions are literally all we have to go on.

Scum can be active
walls walls walls walls walls walls walls
I am not scum, town.

Since you don't seem to like long posts, let me make this in a nice, fast, easily-digestible form.

For the village, more information>>>less information
Active players interact more with other players, which=more information
passive players interact less with other players, which=less information

Therefore, active players>>>passive players, and pressing people to contribute>>>letting people get by with one liners.

As I've said many times over the course of this post, nobody is asking for a wall, unless your definition of a wall is "a paragraph or two long".

[shinyskarmory]

@ILF:

Thanks for clearing that up, makes sense.

... I don't know how likely a jester actually is, would someone with more experience tell me how likely it is we have a jester?

Jester is considered to be a bastard role on this site, the chances of it being used in a normal game are close to non-existent.

@shinysk:

I asked you a question in #119 can you answer it please.

What kind of expansion do you want on that logic?

I already said that my logic on that front was meta based, and that I thought it would be unlikely that there'd be a mafia role with the ability to "clean" itself to the village in a Normal game.

I guess I don't understand what kind of expansion you want on that front

ILF, I really want you to be town. I have a soft spot in my heart for newbies. But honestly, every time you post, I just get more and more convinced you're scum.

It would have been very easy to answer Octopus's question. So easy I almost answered it for you! "I found Boon suspicious when I voted for him, but now as the game has progressed, I no longer lean either way." Simple! But instead you give us a dance about how now you're leaning BACK towards him being scum

despite him not posting between when you gave him a "null" pass (#183) and now

... I just, I just don't know.

So let me see if I can ask some questions to better understand:

1. You said your NULL on Boon was because you figured his vote was either random or following Grib. (#183) What's making you lean towards scum between then and now?

2. Now that you're leaning scum on Boon, does that make him a better or worse lynch candidate than bjc, who is just frustrating?

3. Drew-sta (#27) and theelkspeaks (#28) hammer on you for your first vote. You are clearly frustrated with them at that point. What has moved them from either frustrating (or scum purposefully frustrating) then, to town now?

Honestly, the thing you have going for you is the sincerity of your anger in and around #30-#60 and that's about it from my view. That (to me) is hard to fake. But you need to realize that, in this game, your words are going to get twisted and shoved back at you, and that's what wins or loses the game -- and it will take a while, but you've got to learn to differentiate between what's "poor reading comprehension" and what's willful misrepresentation.

bjc

: Why the switch from Oka to shiny?

shinyskarmory

: Why no vote in #194? You said in #186 that you were looking for specific things from Oka or you would vote. #194 makes it pretty clear that you didn't get what you wanted from him. Where's the follow-through?

I said I was going to give oka some time (24-36 hours IIRC) to post good content before I voted him. It hasn't been quite that long yet.

If he hasn't posted some actual content by the time I go to bed my vote will go on.

[shinyskarmory]

Wait. Shinyskarmory, bjc isn't producing much content and you aren't calling him out.

????

Such confusion.

I have no problem pressuring bjc, but since I only have one vote, I can't vote both you and him at the same time. Guess I'll just have to settle for you because I gave you a decent time frame to post something good and you just keep taking sarcastic shots without any content.

Hey skarmory, can you justify the 24-36 hour stated time frame you gave Oka before voting him? Did you expect him as scum to be less likely to follow through on your questioning with you having outright stated that ultimatum? Cuz idgi

Btw while I'm curious why Shinobi voted massive, I think he has balls for voting a p unviable lynch and don't understand why anyone's auto-scumreading him for it?

I wanted to make sure oka had time to actually sit down, read through someone's stuff in ISO or in the actual thread, and make a good post. It definitely takes time to do good reads.

Since it's been a day or so and he hasn't done it, VOTE: OkaPoka

You're all scum.

Grib, would you be in for a double lynch on Oka and bjc?

Worst case scenario, we lose two villagers who weren't contributing anything anyways.

[shinyskarmory]

Also, my math puts oka at L-1, nobody else vote him until we get either

A. a claim
B. a decision regarding double lynch vs. single lynch
C. another refusal to post reads/analysis