Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Mgm]

Ether hugs Zindaras, then carries his chair back to use as a footrest.

Sweet. I'll change my vote if an MBLlynch looks more likely. I'd still feel vaguely more

satisfied

if we lynched Nightfall first, but not enough to argue as long as he stays on the agenda. Mgm, care to join us or are you going to go find someone new to be a nonconformist over now? (If my "slip" really bothers you that much--remember IH's old signature? Yeah.)

You won't hear me get nonconformist now. I wanted MBL dead and I'm not backing out now I get the opportunity.

Unvote: Ether; Vote: MBL

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum: 3 (Nightfall Thesp MBL )
Nightfall: 2 (Ether CES )
MrBuddyLee: 2 (Glork Mgm)

Not voting: Patrick

Looking for

5

votes for a lynch!

Deadline:

Monday 21st May 5pm BST!

-- unless I get 4 PMs asking for an extension.

[Mgm]

Thank god, we can actually play the game now. I would have rather seen Zindy lynched to see who was too chicken to do so, but this works. It seems at least one scumbag was afraid to push for the easy and obvious town lynch there, meaning we're dealing with at least one, if not two, crafty sleazebags. Patrick has been riding Zindy ass for days, while Glork and Thesp tiptoed on and off, Glork less deftly. Of the three, I see Glork as the scummiest with regards to Zindy, but I will reread carefully to be sure of that. As for the people who avoided Zindy, you should all read them specifically to see WHY the scum amongst them was afraid to even poke at Zindaras. I thought he could be scum, so why didn't these people?

It's near impossible to make a solid case against a lurker, which is why I expect most players stayed away from it. I'd like to know why you thought there was a case to begin with, because I ain't seeing it.

Someone wanted us to do their dirty work for them, and I imagine it'll be readable in their posts because they'll show too much deference to the "terribly scummish-looking lurker who'll eventually turn up town and cause a finger-pointing dramabomb".

You don't get someone else to do the dirty work for you by actively advocating the lynch of another player. If that person is actually defending Zindaras from getting lynched, your idea makes no sense at all anymore.

Why you would want to lynch an inactive player is beyond me. They will die of a modkill or be replaced eventually, but trying to get them to connect themselves to their buddies won't work and setting your sights on a lynch when it's clear the affected player won't return is just stupid.

And lo and behold, you even admit this yourself:

It's ludicrous--you look like the opportunist amongst us and yet you're making me out to be that person? I wanted to see your DEFENSE of Zindaras, because it was the only way we were going to get any useful info out of his inevitable modkill or lynch. He certainly wasn't going to provide any links to other players himself, regardless of his alignment.

So first you say you want him to tie himself to his buddies and now you admit he wouldn't talk anyway.

***

There may well have been a scumbag too scared to join the bandwagon, but it might just as easily have not fit their present behavior to suddenly switch to that wagon. In either case, I expect at least one opportunistic scum to have been on the wagon. You don't necessarily need the other one to finish the job. The majority of a working wagon still consists of pro-town players.

I've been hunting for scum more diligently than you for the past day, and you try to paint the opposite story.

You have been voting CES since April 11 (you switched to Zindaras by May 8). That doesn't look like scum hunting, that looks like stubbornly holding on to your beliefs. Even now Glork offers you the chance to put your vote were your mouth is, you aren't following through with what you're saying. You have been calling him scum, so if you're so convinced, why aren't you voting for him?

I had two paragraphs of case against Zindy typed out at one point and then decided to delete it, deciding I needed to know who had the stones to present the same argument.

Why wait? It's your case, not anyone else's.

[MrBuddyLee]

If your post was any more full of holes they'd call it Elune and sell it melted on dark rye.

[Mgm]

If your post was any more full of holes they'd call it Elune and sell it melted on dark rye.

That smiley should read May 8.

Anyway, if my post is so full of holes quit blowing steam and prove it. I'd love to know how you think you can make an even remotely solid case for lynching a lurker who's almost getting modkilled anyway and I would also like to know how you think just calling someone scummy even measures up the effect of a vote in the manipulation department.

[Glork]

Dear Everybody Else,

Please also ask MBL why he refuses to vote for me even though he believes I am so incredibly scummy. Maybe if he gets enough people demanding an answer, he'll finally give one.

XOXO,
Glork

[Mr Stoofer]

:arrow: I'll be away until Monday 21st May - almost certainly without any Internet access. See you all when I get back!!

I'm sure that you'll all be OK without me.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm trying to ignore your egomaniacism and bluster, Glork, but if you insist...

Unlike a crow in a marble factory, I am able to maintain focus amidst distractions. You may be a shiny bauble of much interest to me at present, but I still have my sense of who's done what throughout the game and I'll vote for who I see fit accordingly. If I decide to question Thesp for a bit, and aggressively so, does this mean Thesp should start harrassing me to vote for him? No, because he's not a buffoon, and because gamestate doesn't dictate that impulsive vote. MgM has caught my eye consistently over the past few days for his baseless nonsense, but the odds are poor with an MgM lynch so I'm not voting him. If we catch the remaining non-godfather scum, I will reconsider coveting that foil ball.

By all means have your jollies badgering me, but consider yourself answered.

Please feel free to explain why Patrick in particular is off your list, and while I'm explaining why I thought pushing Zindaras was a good idea, please explain

why you knew he was town with certainty.

That whole song and dance of yours reeked to high heaven.

[Glork]

I don't see how you're speaking in certainties, MBL. I

never

expressed "certainty" that Zindaras was pro-town. Let's look at what I said about Zindaras:

I'd still rather be lynching MBL and Nightfall. I refuse to switch to Zindaras at this point. I'm also

still

waiting for MBL to restate his case against Zindaras.

Come to think of it, your post doesn't even make

ANY

sense at this point, considering I had just said that I would REFUSE to move to Zindaras. I don't

HAVE

a case against Zindaras. In fact, I'm practically

DEFENDING

him, because I feel tha this absence is being taken advantage of by somebody (namely you, MBL) who wants to stall the day and result in a Zindaras-lynch or a No-Lynch+ZindieModkill.

I also want you to tell me, MBL, who you'll be looking at if Zindaras is today's only death and he turns out to be

pro-town

. What happens if you're wrong?


So... just to repeat myself and make things completely, 100% clear, I want you to answer three things to me immediately:
1) What posts did people make that you think "no scum could make"?
2) Why do you think that Zindaras is a scumbag and that he should be lynched?
3) Where would your suspicions lie if Zindaras were lynched today as a pro-town player?

I'm sick of this "you're not looking, so I'm not going to tell you" attitude. After the shit you pulled with CDB -- claiming you saw something "naughty" in his posting and telling people to go look for it, and then backtracking to say that you were bluffing all along -- I'm not going to accept any of this "go look for it yourself" attitude. I want you to answer me clearly, directly, and concisely.

You know what, <<EXPLETIVE DELETED>> it, I'm just going to keep on going with this. I also know

for a fact

that Zindaras' activity across the board has practically disappeared in the past month. I've known him since we were on MafiaScum, and I know that he's got Real-Life issues that are preventing him from participating. The fact that he kept trying to come back and run analyses is something that I now see as a distinct

pro-town

sign, rather than a scumtell. It says that he was trying to contribute even when he knew he couldn't keep up. This "way Zindaras keeps floating in and out" bullshit that MBL was spewing when he said Zindie was 40% likely to be scum (yes, I just went back and glanced at MBL's earlier posts) comes from nothing. It comes from the fact that MBL is taking advantage of the fact that Zindaras

wanted

to be here, but

isn't

.

Perhaps by now he's just given up. I don't know. I'd like him to come in and, if nothing else, answer that for us. But I no longer for a second believe that he is scum, and I will not stand for us to sit back doing nothing while he gets lynched or modkilled. Zindaras' absence is

NOTHING

like Nightson's absence in the late portions of Space Monkey Mafia. He isn't scum. I don't know how many more times I can say that.

Let's look at exactly what I said:

• I refuse to move to Zindaras. I want MBL to explain his case against Zindaras.
  
• I don't have a case against Zindaras -- in fact, I've been defending him.
  
• I
  FEEL
  that his absence is being taken advantage of. Note the lack of certainty -- this is my
  OPINION
  , not a statement of fact.
  
• I want to know what MBL would do
  IF
  Zindaras were killed as a pro-town player. Note I'm speaking theoretically here; there is no statement of fact.
  
• I know that Zindaras' activity is diminished. This is because of his V/LA posts and because of the fact that I had to replace him in my minigame, Mostly Mute: Haiku.
  
• I state that his attempts to provide some kind of participation earlier were something
  that I

  SAW

  as a pro-town tell
  . Again, my
  OPINION
  . There is no statement of fact.
  
• I again state that MBL is taking advantage of Zindaras' position. I do call this a fact, but it's evident that this "fact" comes from my conclusions on Zindaras' behavior and MBL's posting, especially with regards to Zindaras. I should note here that, if MBL wants to accuse me of using "facts," then the only "fact" I expressed is the "fact" that MBL was
  actively taking advantage of Zindaras
  . So yeah, MBL, if you're going to accuse me of having absolute/certain information, then you're basically stating that we would have to be scumbuddies if I "knew for a fact" that your intentions were malicious.
  
• I state the observation that Zindaras' absence does not hold parallels to Nightson's absence from Space Monkeys. That's probably the biggest reason that led to my conclusion that Zindaras was pro-town. I then re-state my conclusion that Zindaras is not scum.

So, Mr. "I'm doing all the legwork and you're being lazy by not reading"... every piece of evidence I had leading to my conclusion was stated in-thread. And other than one hyperbolic sentence in which I state that you are "factually" taking advantage of Zindaras' absence, I do not speak in any absolutes. I'm curious to know how you came to the conclusion that I "knew" that Zindaras was pro-town "with certainty." Because I'm not seeing it. All I'm seeing is that I

concluded

that Zindaras was not scum based on my

observations

of this game. And if that's taboo, I'd really, *REALLY* like to know how you think Mafia should be played.



I'll get a response regarding Patrick later. He's been low on my list pretty much all game, though at this time, I can't properly articulate why that is so. When I get some spare time, I'll look at his posts again and try to explain why I think he is pro-town.

[MrBuddyLee]

The mod did you a huge favor by modkilling Zindaras when he did.

There's no way you could have defended that tripe unless we knew Zindy was town. My eyes just about popped out of their sockets when I read:

But I no longer for a second believe that he (Z) is scum

, and I will not stand for us to sit back doing nothing while he gets lynched or modkilled. Zindaras' absence is NOTHING like Nightson's absence in the late portions of Space Monkey Mafia.

He isn't scum.

Absolutely, positively, without a doubt, beyond the pale. And then just as things are getting interesting and we're going to learn something from your hyperbole, the mod hands you a gift in a ribbon-wrapped box. If you're scum, you essentially owe this game to Stoofer, because I think you would have been summarily demolished for your statements before Zindy was modkilled.

Now I get to go back and defend my mild press on Zindy, which you'll see was entirely proportional. Here goes.

[Glork]

I disagree completely. There were obviously mixed emotions over Zindaras' alignment for the town as a whole, and I truly believe that at least somebody would have stepped up to agree with me. If nobody thought similarly to me, MBL, Zindaras would have been lynched a long time ago. The mod did no favors in choosing to modkill Zindaras when he did (though now that he's posted his upcoming absence, we at least know why he chose to do it at that time).

Why do you find it so difficult to believe that I came to a correct conclusion by completely legitimate means? Is it just because you didn't see it that way and you're being obstinate?

[MrBuddyLee]

I relish exposing the Houdini job Glork's trying to pull on you all.

Here are my comments on Zindaras in the past two months:

Please prod or replace Zindaras.

If he has limited time, his decision to chip away at the game with PBPAs from day one is bizarre. He had to know he likely wouldn't make it to D4's posts, and I see commenting on D1 only as suspiciously safe behavior. I asked him for gut, as I'm sure he's skimmed/followed the thread, and he hemmed and hawed rather than spitting it out. The biggest hole in this game is info about connections between Zindy and anyone. In subsequent days, survivors should look at who strayed in tone and zeal from expected behavior re zindy: expression of dismay and disappointment and moderate suspicion for lurking.

Requesting an extension. I want to hear more from Zindaras

Zindaras appears to be reveling in the fact that despite being a zero factor, no one's willing to lynch him. I don't see that as pro-town, and if the average person is 25% likely to be scum, I'd put Zindy more at 40% due to the way he's floated in and out.

unvote, vote: Zindaras

Zindaras should be lynched.

Discuss.

Here are Glork's comments on Zindaras in the past few months:

I think I'd be happy lynching Zindaras.

Pro-town Zindie, in my experience, is usually much more observant and forceful.

Zindie and Ether probably seem the scummiest overall to me, right now.

Guarantee you right now that one of MBL/Zindaras is scum. Currently leaning towards Zindaras.

(I) Suggest lynching Zindie.

Okay, so right now I'm digging Zindaras the most, along with CES. Vote: Zindaras

As much as I don't like Zindie, I'm going to Unvote, Vote: Ether. I know she likes to lurk in her games, but I think she should be pressured into talking a lot more right now... Strong FoS: Zindaras. If you're pro-town, seriously get your act together.

I think I could dig CDB-Zindaras-Ether right now.

Interestingly enough, Zindie commits one of my favorite scumtells in 641, protecting CDB... I am loving a Zindie+CDB pairing.

I still find Zindaras to be reasonably scummy.

Probably Scum:
CDB
Zindaras

Excuse me? What do you mean "if I would look at your posts." I've looked at every post you have made up through Page 29, and I have concluded that up to this point, I think you are scum.

I don't like Zindaras, and I really don't like CDB... I want to lynch somebody that I am sure is scum. And that person is CDB (or Zindaras, probably).

Yes, Thesp. We've already established that CDB and Zindie are scum together, remember?

I'm still willing to bet that CDB/Zindaras is a scumpair... I am 100% certain that CDB is scum and

like 75% certain that Zindaras is a scumbuddy of his.

It's okay, Zindaras. We already know that you are CDB's scumbuddy. We'll just get you tomorrow, 'kay?

I don't trust you, CES; you and Zindaras are on my short list today

Vote: CES
FoS: Zindaras

Vote: Zindaras for two reasons: I also see him as a potential scumbag, and I want him to post.

Yeah, yeah, I got it.

Can we kill Zindaras now?

I'd honestly be okay with a Zindaras modkil at this point.

I'm guessing our last two scums are likely among {Zindaras, CES, Nightfall}... I think we should lynch Nightfall and ask for an overnight modkill on Zindaras. Who's with me? <.< ... I could still see Zindie/CES, Nightfall/CES, or Nightfall/Zindie, too.

Zindaras seems to be back on-site, so here's hoping that he actually makes that lifesaving post in the next day and a half or so.

I don't know about Zindaras yet. I want summary cases against him so that, in the next few days, I can review them myself and see where I actually stand... if he's not going to show up...we might as well lynch him now

I refuse to switch to Zindaras at this point.

To complete the exercise, you all should review Zindaras's posts over the past two months and see how they align with Glork's changes of heart:

I can't say I feel the CDB-hammer was a mistake.

No way in hell, Glork.

Glork, I've had an all-around drop in activity.

Which I look forward to correcting.

I am currently working on an analysis, the first part of which will be posted within a couple of hours.

(posts an analysis of THE FIRST THREE PAGES OF THE GAME ONLY, wtf)

I'm having such a horrible week.

I'll review pre-deadline.

That's it. That's absolutely ALL we had to work with from Zindaras in order to gauge his alignment.

Glorkdini has attempted to wave his hands and convince you that MY mild press against Zindaras is the disproportionate one.

On the contrary, I stated the following proportional arguments:

* Zindaras's choice to use limited time to analyze the most useless three pages of the game was a conservative, safe, scummy move
* Zindy was 40% likely to be scum, surpassing anyone else in the game
* After deadline extension, I voted Zindaras with no further comment
* I asked people to discuss the premise that Zindy should be lynched

The primary reasons I asked to discuss a Zindy lynch:

1) Without a discussion of a POTENTIAL Zindylynch the day could not possibly be complete. There's NO EXCUSE for not putting a megalurker on the block, possibly pressuring them into speaking, and getting to observe reactions and arguments pro and con. As we're seeing right now, the discussion is explosive and full of info on various players.
2) His behavior was stereotypical scum behavior in that he was obstinate, not forthcoming, and only posting in response and proportion to direct pressure.
3) He was posting in other games and not this one, making it clear that his disappearance in this game was to some extent strategic. In retrospect, perhaps he knew a modkill was inevitable due to his schedule and therefore was hoping to draw out just this type of experience.
4) My other top suspect is someone I just about always find scummy due to the limited amount of reasoned logic in their posts.

Meanwhile, Glork has gone from:

* 75% certainty that Zindy is scum (5 weeks ago)
* being ok with a Zindy modkill (a month ago)
* thinking Zindaras is scum but should be modkilled not lynched (two weeks ago)
* hoping that Zindy posts to "save his life" (two weeks ago)
* hoping that Zindy posts but if not he should be lynched (three DAYS ago)
* stating positivity that Zindy is town (just before modkill)

ALL THIS BASED ESSENTIALLY ON ON

ONE

POST BY ZINDY IN THE PAST FIVE WEEKS WHERE ZINDY ANALYZED THE FIRST THREE PAGES OF THE GAME

unvote, vote: Glork

The closer I look at your behavior over the past two months, the more it stinks. I don't see how a rational townie could carry on this internal conversation. Your suspicions aren't the LEAST bit consistent. So you're scum, or you're Sybil.

For some reason I've been putting you in the town bin, but I must be holding on to old cop vibes or something cause none of this is pro-town behavior.

[Glork]

....so changing one's opinion over the course of a few weeks is unreasonable? Is that your argument against me? Nevermind that I made a significant change on CDB/Thesp/Fritz over the course of

days

when I did and posted my re-read of the first 20-something pages of the game.


Gas. Your case against me is all gas.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Now, Glrok, be fair. He's saying your opinion changed rather dramatically despite a general lack of new input, which does an sich constitute a valid argument, even if not a particularly strong one.

But MBL is most definitely downplaying Zindie's analysis post, something you, Glrok, mentioned as a distinct pro-town sign. Quite scummy.

Unvote, vote: MBL

[MrBuddyLee]

....so changing one's opinion over the course of a few weeks is unreasonable? Is that your argument against me? Nevermind that I made a significant change on CDB/Thesp/Fritz over the course of

days

Terrible spin in light of the content-filled posts I made.

Well, I'm heartened by the fact that you're so willing to help me make my case against you. You "changed your mind" on CDB/Fritz/Thesp because you did a PBPA and found specific comments by those players to base your arguments around.

You and Zindy? No such foundation for your change of approach.

Over a month and a half, Zindy made no posts that I can fathom would change anyone's mind about his alignment. He certainly wasn't changing mine in the least, and no amount of rereading his insignificant post history could lend further insight.

And yet as an imminent modkill (which you were lobbying for) came closer to reality, you pretended to be having second thoughts about Zindy.

Based on thin air. Entirely.

More importantly, you seemed 100% prepared to pounce upon anyone who'd make the least case against Zindy, the same case you were making extraordinarily vocally only a week earlier.

Looks calculated.

[Nightfall]

Glork could you list all the living players each followed by the % of a chance that you think they'll turn out to be scum?

[MrBuddyLee]

Answering questions:

I'd love to know how you think you can make an even remotely solid case for lynching a lurker who's almost getting modkilled anyway

I've made clear that I wanted to have the discussion and apply pressure, not necessarily lynch Zindaras. I think I stated several times that I didn't have much to go on with Zindaras, and I asked for an extension so we could get more a) info from him b) discussion about him. It wasn't as trite as a "who finds him scummy who doesn't" thing, it was about nuance--people finding him town or scum and not giving reasons, people shifting opinions on him drastically and inexplicably.

So your question is a non-starter, because I never intended to make "a solid case" for lynching a lurker. It was an attempt to start a process.

Additionally, MgM, I'm wondering why you never got on Glork's or Patrick's cases for doing the same thing, e.g.:

if he's not going to show up...we might as well lynch him now

Mind you, a modkill was just as bad for us as a mislynch--worse in fact because we'd only learn the mod's attitude about Zindy, rather than the attitude of the eight players voting thumbs up or thumbs down.

Could you order the players by how much scumhunting they're doing, with no ties?

It's varied over the course of the game.

Nightfall appeared to be somewhat on the ball early and has given up. Did a PBPA on half the town alphabetically, which is suspect. Upped his posting when he was about to be lynched, then disappeared again. Has asked one question in the past month, and it was about himself.

Thesp was on CDB nonstop til his lynch, then switched his singular focus to CES and hasn't asked significant questions of anyone else. Made a few observations about Zindy.

CES remained almost singularly on Thesp for the first three and a half days, with a brief time-out to hammer CDB. He asked some questions appearing to prod for my alignment, but mostly made flat observations I didn't find accurate or founded. (Zindy town, MGM town, Thesp scum) Slapped a baseless vote on Nightfall at the height of that wagon with no analysis comments or questions associated.

Glork's posted a lot of content, asked a lot of questions, and seemed to be looking for answers. But so many of his conclusions are unfounded, it's hard to tell if he's actually scumhunting or merely handwaving. In the past month, he's voted every "unconfirmed" player except Patrick, which is fascinating bordering on insane.

Feb 22nd: Vote MGM
March 13th: Vote Thesp
April 4th: Vote CES
April 8th: Vote Zindaras
April 25: Vote Ether
April 25: Vote Nightfall
May 10th: Vote MBL

Ether's scumhunting posts remind me of Nightfall's in style, and she asks a few questions and has given reasons behind most of her suspicions. Her case on Nightfall is hot and cold (I do like the Nightfall-CDB link from post 21, shows research) and seems to rely on nitpicky details more than tone, much like her earlier dismissive comments about MgM.

Patrick appeared to try very hard to discern Zindy's alignment, and focused on Z, not looking significantly into others except for how they related to Zindy. Other than that he's asked a lot of procedural questions and made filler comments attempting to appear active in the past month, making several "Captain Obvious" remarks. Earlier he was more involved.

MgM: HA, I knew this would bear fruit. He's been on Patrick, Ether and I for the past two months. Gave reasons for Patrick (bad logic explaining failure to hammer Thesp) and me (cop hunting yesterday) but his constant pressure on Ether was unfounded. Until you go back two months to see:

because of Ether's decision not to hammer him (Thesp)

So MgM has been on Patrick and Ether for essentially their failure to hammer someone we currently believe Fritz found innocent. That's coasting.

MBL: Been examining people's motives for votes and shifts in suspicion.

Scumhunters

MBL
Glork
Ether recently
Nightfall early
Patrick
Thesp
CES
Nightfall recently
MgM
Ether early
Zindaras

Coasters

If you can't be bothered to type out the Zindaras case again then just say what you thought wasn't quite right about mine, what you'd have added, removed etc. And do the genuine posts thing.

Basically, I think you read too much into Zindaras's actions, which looked more lazy than malicious. Most of his comments were so offhand and unfounded, they'd never convince anyone of anything, so if he was manipulative scum he wasn't

effective

manipulative scum. Most of the things you posted were a focus on the particular, when any case I'd have made would have been more centered around his play the entire game. I've seen him hunt scum, and he wasn't doing it this game, and that's a pretty huge metagame.

Genuine posts... I'll track down yours first. Your posts #82 and #83.
Nightfall's #18 and #22
MgM and Ether, I didn't find em on skim. Ether's had to do with a comment or set of comments that was like "this person thinks this about this person thinking that" which was a multidimensional observation I was impressed with, and I forget what MgM's was.

[Glork]

Okay, quick thing on Nightfall's PBPA posts.

You're saying that you couldn't feasably see scum making detailed PBPAs, but you could see me as scum making Glork125, Glork126, and Glork131 (my detailed PBPA of most of the entire game up to that point)?

[Glork]

Unvote

I'm going to try to re-read most/all of game at some point (not this weekend though... busy both Saturday and Sunday). MBL/Nightfall are still my top two suspects right now, but I may end up eating some of my own words before too long.

[MrBuddyLee]

The great thing about Zindaras being dead is that all questions about people's approaches towards him can now be theoretically answered. I've long thought that scum would be hesitant to attack him if he was town, and would give brief, noncommittal comments on his behavior. Zindaras should have been brought up in parallel, raised by townies as a viable alternative to any other impending lynch. Raised by scum as an alternative to any impending lynch of scum.

Also, I figured if he was town, scum would lay groundwork to attack anyone promoting/suggesting a Zindylynch. As the lynch/modkill became imminent, scum's posturing would increase.

I was bothered by Zindaras's presence and the associated uncertainty. It came as close to making my skin crawl as a mafia game can. Anyone who seemed indifferent about the issue was more likely to be scum imo.

The evolution and avoidance of people's comments on Zindaras:

CES: Eliminated Zindy entirely as a suspect and asked him repeatedly for bandwagoning assistance.

Ether: Expressed satisfaction with possible Zindylynch for a month and a half. No opposition to a Zindy modkill. Shows modest concern about his alignment.

Glork: All over the map. Showed grave concern and discomfort and attacked Zindaras and later decided the Zindywagon was scummy based apparently on the lack of substance behind the 2-player-5-to-lynch wagon.

MgM: Against modkilling, against the lynch of Zindaras, but never expressed a case, asked Zindy a question or asked others questions about Zindy. Played it safe.

Nightfall: NEVER expressed an opinion, never prodded, coasted entirely, avoided the topic from start to finish.

Patrick: Appears to have reread Z's posts and got more out of them then there actually was. Stayed on Z for two months except for brief stints on CDB and Nightfall wagons. Asked questions about people's opinions of the Zindaras dilemma.

Thesp: Got on Z for ignoring the CDB situation. Wanted to lynch both CES and Zindaras (via modkill) today. Seemed to understand and mirror the general concern about Zindaras's alignment.

Oddly unconcerned:
Nightfall
MgM

Seemingly concerned:
Patrick
Glork
Ether
Thesp

Not concerned cause he thought Zindy was town
CES

My gut based on everything I'm currently processing:
Scum are in {CES, Glork, MgM}.

AND THEN:
Nightfall, Ether (but tone says no)

Skating lately cause they can, and probably town:
Thesp, Patrick

ppe: glork, my ability to see scum making quality, probing PBPAs differs based on the player at hand and the details of the pbpa in question.

Unvote

[Patrick]

Well, that's an interesting and large amount of stuff there. You have some good observations there MBL, though your stance towards Nightfall seems somewhat generous, since you listed mostly stuff that he's done that was dodgy (dropped off recently, no comments on Zindaras). You must really have faith in those early posts made by him which you think looked sincere. I've never seen Nightfall use that format before, so I don't know if it's normal or something he just adopted for this game. My feeling is that the stream of consciousness posts made by Glork looked very sincere, but that the pbp format used by Nightfall would be easier for scum to do. There is alot of it though, so effort was obviously put in.

Are there any games where Glork made a similar stream of consciousness type thing as scum?

My gut feeling is you're wide of the mark in your Glork assessment but I am getting more suspicious of CES. I don't like the ease with which he slid over to the MBL vote when he says he has no read on MBL.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Can't I trust Glrok? I know I have no read on him either way, so that's not factoring into my decision and Glrok doesn't have that title for nothing. (Also, I'm fairly sure Glrok is town.)

Unvote

though, as Glrok has done the same.

[MrBuddyLee]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Patrick]

Can't I trust Glrok? I know I have no read on him either way, so that's not factoring into my decision and Glrok doesn't have that title for nothing. (Also, I'm fairly sure Glrok is town.)

Unvote though, as Glrok has done the same.

Even if Glork is town, that doesn't mean he's necessarily right. Especially if he actually has a history of being wrong about MBL.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

*gasp* You surely don't mean to say that people are occasionally wrong?! I'm gonna have to re-think my entire playstyle now.

Glrok is well aware of his history with MBL. I trust him to make the right judgment call.