Open 554 - omg, like, jungle republic!! + game over~~

[Justin Playfair]

Thor, if it makes any difference I thought you were caught mafia, not caught wolf. Mnemonic's weird voting was around the Finglove lynch and Finglove flipped mafia. You were under suspicion of being mafia and then as part of your plan you sweep out this strange mafia come forward and I will sheep you bit. It seemed like you wanted town to think you could only be the wolf, which would undercut the suspicion that was on you.

I like nothing about the votes on Lia. Especially yours, Majiffy. You seemed awfully certain Jon/Lia was town for a very long time and you haven't posted anything since to indicate you'd changed your mind. Why Lia?

[Majiffy]

NM is obvtown, I know my own alignment, and Thor is thus far uncc'ed.

[reinoe]

@LIA, what is your opinion of post 541?

[reinoe]

Actually, y'know, i'm honestly sick and tired of dealing with idiot Majiffy already, and I don't much like the rest of you so;

Claim: Seer

This is problematic because the slot was so inactive prior that I'm not sure the night actions were used. You don't have to reveal your results, but do you have access to previous results? If you do have access, did mnemonic submit each night?

UNVOTE: Thor665

Scratch that after coming home and getting some alcohol in me. Thor, you should release your results because if we don't lynch wolf today you're dead tonight.

[Marquis]

[insert jungle-related flavor here]

---

votecount 4.8!!

Lia (2) ::

Not_Mafia, Majiffy (L-2)

not voting (4) ::

Justin Playfair, Lia, reinoe, Thor665

deadline is 5 days from this post ::

(expired on 2014-06-09 16:00:00)

with 6 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch!!

[Thor665]

Thor, if it makes any difference I thought you were caught mafia, not caught wolf. Mnemonic's weird voting was around the Finglove lynch and Finglove flipped mafia. You were under suspicion of being mafia and then as part of your plan you sweep out this strange mafia come forward and I will sheep you bit. It seemed like you wanted town to think you could only be the wolf, which would undercut the suspicion that was on you.

If you are town you need to deeply examine how you spot scumtells.

@Majiffy - I asked before, I'll ask again (and call you a ponce again, because what the frell) since your PoE has changed - what happened to bounce Lia into scum territory where before she was PoE worthy? This is why your PoE is so worrisome, you're not willing to discuss it. I am actually at the point where I find your play so suspect I'm wanting to go back and look at the two lynches and declare one of them a bus from you, that's where I'm mentally at with how you're playing. Stop it.

if we don't lynch wolf today you're dead tonight.

This is not true, if we derp and lynch town than the wolf can't afford to shoot me and has to try to shoot mafia to save himself and derp town. According to Majiffy this is an optimal and wonderful pro-town situation, don't'cha'know.

Who do you think the wolf is and why?

[Thor665]

Useful? You won't even elaborate on the reasons for your town reads

for a player you town read.

Meh.
Neither looks like a bus.

I did find this quote pretty comical considering your play today though.

[Thor665]

@Justin
@Lia
@Reinoe

Greetings,

Currently the three of you are my scumspect pool. I think neither Reinoe nor Justin make much sense as Wolves, that said I think Reinoe and Justin do not make much sense as partners (this will blow Majiffy's mind because I'm using alignments to scumhunt - it's feth-amazing and must be poor play on my part). SO I'm willing to accept that I could be wrong on one of you and N_M is, in fact, scum of some stripe.

I would love to see each of you present any reasoning you can to show that you are either not wolf or not mafia (Lia...showing anything to suggest you are not wolf would be a *very* good thing to do at this stage)
I would also like to see each of you offer up your best thoughts on who wolf is.
If any of you would like to claim Mafia (a not bad strategy at this stage, and I can show you a Jungle republic game where I did it for an eventual Mafia win) I will put immense extra strength onto your thoughts.

@Majiffy - when you stop being drunk with trying to prove the size of your e-peen let me know, I'd like to discuss scumspects and *teams* with you. Tell me when you're ready for that immense anti-town action.

[Justin Playfair]

VOTE: Lia

Majiffy stays as my townread. Lia I find the most likely to be wolf, I think Justin is mafia, and that he and Lia are unlikely partners, which leaves me with Reinoe+JP and Lia

Not_Mafia? I only joined the mafia when I started defending the mnemonic/thor slot, because I always found someone to be more suspicious of than mnemonic and clearly I was trying to chainsaw to defend him. So then...

...I not only stay mafia when the guy I was defending, the guy who defined me as mafia, turned out not to be, but my new partner is Reinoe, who I was "chainsawing" to try to save my old mafia partner mnemonic/thor. The same Reinoe/Katarina who you've spent the whole game defending.

Majiffy sees you as obvtown. Do you see him the same way? Because it surely has seemed for an awfully long time that it was Katarina/Reinoe who held that spot for you. Why doesn't it anymore?

Also, though Lia has expressed suspicion of me throughout the game I've been reading her slot as town since I first entered the game. Full disclosure, I thought it was the slot most likely to be the seer, so what do I know, but based on the "case" on me being mafia, which was that I expressed doubt about lynching the slot that now seems to have flipped seer, Lia would seem a more likely partner, since the situation is almost identical.

I mean now that Thor has replaced into the mnemonic slot, and especially now that he's claimed seer, we see votes flowing like water to the next most seemingly defenseless player without any sort of case being made, and me not liking it.

And just out of curiosity, since you seem to have settled on me and Reinoe as your mafia team, which one of us would you vote to lynch first?

[Justin Playfair]

Hi Thor.

Nope. I'd be happy to answer any direct questions you have. I'd be happy to explain my reasoning for any choice or scumread I've made. Actually, pretty much all my thoughts are in my posts, so there probably won't be a lot for me to add, but I'll be happy to do what I can. But write an essay on why I'm not the scum you're looking for? Sorry. Think I'll leave that for the scum.

As far as who the three scum are my money would be on Majiffy, Not_Mafia, and Reinoe. And I still like Majiffy best for the werewolf, both for the reasons in my earlier post and because of Not_Mafia's behavior when he dropped his vote on Lia and moved Katarina/Reinoe from his towniest town ever slot to his mafia with me slot.

I'll accept that Not_Mafia might think Lia is the wolf. I think it's irrelevant, though. He's going for the easy lynch again. But he ducks from keeping Katarina/Reinoe in his towny-town slot at last, because at this point that would make Majiffy one of his three scums and put him on Majiffy's radar, and Majiffy as town or wolf would draw more attention to Not_Mafia than Not_Mafia seems comfortable with. So instead he slips Katarina/Reinoe into his second mafia slot. He's not going to get pushback there, because after Lia gets lynched tonight (and it wouldn't matter which way she flipped) I could be put in the number one mafia noose. After all, I must be the number one mafia, look at the number of partners I've had.

[Thor665]

But write an essay on why I'm not the scum you're looking for? Sorry. Think I'll leave that for the scum.

I'll choose to take that as "there is no evidence to suggest I'm not scum".

As far as who the three scum are my money would be on Majiffy, Not_Mafia, and Reinoe. And I still like Majiffy best for the werewolf, both for the reasons in my earlier post and because of Not_Mafia's behavior when he dropped his vote on Lia and moved Katarina/Reinoe from his towniest town ever slot to his mafia with me slot.

How do you take Majiffy as a bus on Ninja? Because that was a pretty intense bus.

I could potentially accept Not_Mafia/Reinoe as a mafia pair, certainly their interactions with each other work with that. Do you think their interactions with Finglove work with them as a mafia team?

[Justin Playfair]

I'll choose to take that as "there is no evidence to suggest I'm not scum".

Well, you take it as you feel you have to. I think pretty much everything I've done would indicate I'm town. I suppose I could point out that Majiffy had to go all the way to some unnamed tomfoolery from Shattered to label me as some sort of generic scum, Reinoe identified me as a possible wolf by the intensely accurate method of deciding the remaining wolf hadn't voted for Ninja, and pretty much all the remaining suspicion of me came from my defense of you. So yes, I guess I'd say everything I've done so far, based on the list above. Maybe Lia has something more concrete. She's been hinting she was suspicious of me since she entered the game.

How do you take Majiffy as a bus on Ninja? Because that was a pretty intense bus.

Ninja was flailing out of the gate. And not just regular flailing. Extra special horrible flailing. He admitted that he was lying about having a read on someone in response to the first question I asked him. He was so artlessly terrible that if I'd been scum, and he'd been my scum partner, I would have calculated my chances of winning at being infinitely greater with him gone from the town as quickly as possible, because at best he was not long for this world, and given enough time he would have probably gotten me caught too. Ninja's only real value was as a judas goat, and if you're going to have to run one out there you might as well run them as hard as you can. You seem to have a pretty high regard for Majiffy as a player, and Majiffy certainly has a high regard for himself. So ask yourself this:

If Majiffy is the wolf, how do you think he would have dealt with Ninja?

I could potentially accept Not_Mafia/Reinoe as a mafia pair, certainly their interactions with each other work with that. Do you think their interactions with Finglove work with them as a mafia team?

Well, I already posted my thoughts about Katarina/Reinoe and the Finglove wagon. Here they are again:

At this point I think the most likely mafia is Katarina/Reinoe. And maybe it works in concert with a Katarina and mnemonic scum team, but I just don't think so. Katarina slips onto the Finglove wagon with the next to last vote. She does this after several posts in which she pointed out that she didn't suspect Finglove. The reason she gives for voting Finglove is because Enomis stopped voting Finglove. And even after she settles her vote on the wagon she posts this:

In post 184, Katarina LeBlanc wrote:I could flash wagon on jon, we can probably do that too.

Both Kat/Reinoe and Mafia expressed a lot of suspicion of jon/lia near the end of the Finglove wagon, and they did it in a sort of see-saw way. Not_mafia's very last post before enomis lowers the hammer on finglove is accusing jon of being scum.

And there is Katarina asking for a case and Not_mafia providing it fifteen minutes later. It seems an odd little ballet, especially considering Katarina had already stuck her vote on Finglove, would pine for a flash wagon on jon after she got it, and the timing of the whole thing seems odd.

On the other hand when I was reading the thread initially, and even reading it now I really did think it was the best stating of the case anyone made against Finglove.

[Majiffy]

@Majiffy - I asked before, I'll ask again (and call you a ponce again, because what the frell) since your PoE has changed - what happened to bounce Lia into scum territory where before she was PoE worthy? This is why your PoE is so worrisome, you're not willing to discuss it. I am actually at the point where I find your play so suspect I'm wanting to go back and look at the two lynches and declare one of them a bus from you, that's where I'm mentally at with how you're playing. Stop it.

I think if you don't understand my POE you're the only ponce here.

[Thor665]

@Majiffy - your e-peen is so impressive, it boggles my mind to even try to see it all at once. Your PoE included me...yes, I do not understand your PoE. Shock.

@Justin - how does Not_Mafia play into your Mafia team of Reinoe/Lia/Finglove. You include him as part of the see-saw that bugged you but do not consider him Mafia, so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take away from that.

[Not_Mafia]

Not_Mafia? I only joined the mafia when I started defending the mnemonic/thor slot, because I always found someone to be more suspicious of than mnemonic and clearly I was trying to chainsaw to defend him. So then...

That's because today is when the alignment hunting started

...I not only stay mafia when the guy I was defending, the guy who defined me as mafia, turned out not to be, but my new partner is Reinoe, who I was "chainsawing" to try to save my old mafia partner mnemonic/thor. The same Reinoe/Katarina who you've spent the whole game defending.

I've laid out my reasons for thinking you're not the wolf and I see Majiffy as far more likely town than you, which leaves me with you as mafia.

Majiffy sees you as obvtown. Do you see him the same way? Because it surely has seemed for an awfully long time that it was Katarina/Reinoe who held that spot for you. Why doesn't it anymore?

He is and was my biggest townread. Again, you're overstating my defense of Kat/Reinoe.

Also, though Lia has expressed suspicion of me throughout the game I've been reading her slot as town since I first entered the game. Full disclosure, I thought it was the slot most likely to be the seer, so what do I know, but based on the "case" on me being mafia, which was that I expressed doubt about lynching the slot that now seems to have flipped seer, Lia would seem a more likely partner, since the situation is almost identical.

Why did you think Lia's slot was the seer?

And just out of curiosity, since you seem to have settled on me and Reinoe as your mafia team, which one of us would you vote to lynch first?

Assuming we don't hit mafia today Thor is the one who will be driving that ship tomorrow. If this is your roundabout way as asking me which read I'm more confident in. It's you.

Ninja was flailing out of the gate. And not just regular flailing. Extra special horrible flailing. He admitted that he was lying about having a read on someone in response to the first question I asked him. He was so artlessly terrible that if I'd been scum, and he'd been my scum partner, I would have calculated my chances of winning at being infinitely greater with him gone from the town as quickly as possible, because at best he was not long for this world, and given enough time he would have probably gotten me caught too. Ninja's only real value was as a judas goat, and if you're going to have to run one out there you might as well run them as hard as you can. You seem to have a pretty high regard for Majiffy as a player, and Majiffy certainly has a high regard for himself. So ask yourself this:

If Majiffy is the wolf, how do you think he would have dealt with Ninja?

Ninja was being read as town-flailing by you, me, S and Em and Wolfy at the start of day 2. Majiffy forced through that lynch and ramped up the pressure on NT that eventually led to some of us read flipping. The main reason for this was him lying about having a case on Finglove, Majiffy was the one who called him out for empty wagon jumping with on case, do you not think Majiffy would have used the night phase to help NT construct a response to this?Furthermore, this means they would have had to have killed Enomis, who was prime lynch bait for his awkward hopping off of the Finglove wagon and that Majiffy would then had to have pilloried through the NT lynch. So unless you believe they co-ordinated the bus, Majiffy makes no sense as Wolf

[Thor665]

I think Enomis was killed exactly because the wolves found his hop awkward.

[Justin Playfair]

Hi Thor. Here's what I just posted:

Well, I already posted my thoughts about Katarina/Reinoe and the Finglove wagon. Here they are again:

In post 540, Justin Playfair wrote:At this point I think the most likely mafia is Katarina/Reinoe. And maybe it works in concert with a Katarina and mnemonic scum team, but I just don't think so. Katarina slips onto the Finglove wagon with the next to last vote. She does this after several posts in which she pointed out that she didn't suspect Finglove. The reason she gives for voting Finglove is because Enomis stopped voting Finglove. And even after she settles her vote on the wagon she posts this:

In post 184, Katarina LeBlanc wrote:I could flash wagon on jon, we can probably do that too.




Both Kat/Reinoe and Mafia expressed a lot of suspicion of jon/lia near the end of the Finglove wagon, and they did it in a sort of see-saw way. Not_mafia's very last post before enomis lowers the hammer on finglove is accusing jon of being scum.

And there is Katarina asking for a case and Not_mafia providing it fifteen minutes later. It seems an odd little ballet, especially considering Katarina had already stuck her vote on Finglove, would pine for a flash wagon on jon after she got it, and the timing of the whole thing seems odd.

On the other hand when I was reading the thread initially, and even reading it now I really did think it was the best stating of the case anyone made against Finglove.

There's no jon/lia in my mafia team. Just Not_Mafia and Katarina/Reinoe, and their interactions in regard to the jon/lia slot as finglove was being lynched are part of what I find suspicious.

Maybe the confusion is that I did point out that the case Not_Mafia made on Finglove was pretty good. But it was also provided to Katerina/Reinoe after she had voted for finglove, it was put up in fifteen minutes time, and was never commented on by either one of them again.

[Justin Playfair]

I think Enomis was killed exactly because the wolves found his hop awkward.

Which hop, the one off Finglove or his hammer?

[Thor665]

Both. I could easily see thinking he was a Mafia buddy and going for the kill for that reason.

It's mildly sad to me that majiffy didn't consider that at all...though his Mnemonic/Ninja theory did tag a wolf regardless, albeit also tunneling him on town at the same time...and that he got one wolf out of it and then presumed the second one too is sloppy as well, but, meh. But, yes, Enomis' interactions with Finglove could easily be taken as Mafia/Mafia at the time methinks.


Is your working theory with N_M and Reinow that they decided to bus, wanted to not bus, tried to coordinate not bussing, and then...just didn't? I'm still not following the issue with the see-saw thing.

[Lia]

I'm finally caught up now and I'm looking at Reinoe and Justin as scum. As Thor hasn't been cc'd the last one must be between NM and Majiffy, but I need to recheck the previous Days for that. I think too much dust is being thrown around toDay to get a good reading there. My gut says NM is town but I'm not relying on that.

I'm most sure about Reinoe, particularly for 538 and 539 where his vote and suspicions were based on stuff taken out of context. The main reason for my original town read on Kat went out of the window when Thor claimed seer because I thought Kat had breadcrumbed seer in 220.

@LIA, what is your opinion of post 541?

Which part in particular did you want me to comment on? I did say something about it in my last post which I don't think you've responded to. Also I didn't see a reply to Thor's point that you expected your VT claim to be believed but wouldn't believe others.

I would love to see each of you present any reasoning you can to show that you are either not wolf or not mafia (Lia...showing anything to suggest you are not wolf would be a *very* good thing to do at this stage)

I can't prove I'm not mafia but if I were wolf Kat would have died N2 as I thought she had breadcrumbed seer.

Full disclosure, I thought it was the slot most likely to be the seer

I'm curious as to why?

Maybe Lia has something more concrete. She's been hinting she was suspicious of me since she entered the game.

Apart from what I said in earlier posts there were a couple of places where I thought you were rolefishing but I wasn't sure about it at the time.

[Majiffy]

I can't prove I'm not mafia but if I were wolf Kat would have died N2 as I thought she had breadcrumbed seer.

Can you please elaborate on where you thought you saw this?

[Lia]

I thought Kat had breadcrumbed seer in 220.

[Not_Mafia]

Not seeing what the softclaim is there

[Majiffy]

Not seeing what the softclaim is there

[Lia]

Breadcrumb, not softclaim. It's a bit tenuous but I googled the phrase "Lulu cannot carry" and it links to the wiki page for a tv programme where Lulu is the partner of an undercover cop. I couldn't think of any other reason that that was in the post.


I forgot to do this earlier:

Vote: reinoe