Open 554 - omg, like, jungle republic!! + game over~~

[Not_Mafia]

So

VOTE: mnemonicdevice

Evidently annoying to spell username means scum

Easy game gg no re

Really though, I am V/LA for the 2-3 days, I'll be posting still but I won't completely be in the game until Monday or Tuesday

[Not_Mafia]

Fine

VOTE: jon

[Not_Mafia]

Is this a serious discussion?

If so, I'm an unlynchable, NK immune, town aligned priest inspector.

Ninja Trigger is trying way too hard

VOTE: ninja trgger

[Not_Mafia]

Actually, I have a question for you Ninja, how much forum mafia experience do you have?

Not attempting to be patronising with that question

[Not_Mafia]

That skittishness in RVS reminded of my first couple games, jumped the gun there with that vote.

Having said that...

What point do you think Katarina is trying to make in 43? Because your 44 really made no sense in response to Katarina's 43.

@mod - jon is listed twice in the vc and finglove is not listed

[Not_Mafia]

sorry I might not have been super clear, the point I was trying to make was that Kat was just saying because I did not claim my self as a town in previous statement that I had to be a werewolf. So I was just pointing out that she did basically the same thing, so I made the compression to her first post she that claimed to

not

be a werewolf. which opens up the possibility of her being a mafia instead.

The point of her post was to flip the logic against on to you though to show how silly it was though, it was tongue in cheek.

[Not_Mafia]

against her*

[Not_Mafia]

@finglove It wasn't a matter of complimenting or helping Kat, it was about ascertaining why ninja was so tryhard and why their response didn't really make sense. I don't really see what about my questioning differs to your question directed at Ninja that makes me buddying Kat

You had some serious content related questions for people so why did you follow it up with am RVS joke vote?

[Not_Mafia]

I hate having a underscore in my username aswell but some fucker already took NotMafia which is my preferred name.

Also I wanted to start the finglove wagon so boo you. Ninja's RVS posting reminds me of my first couple games as town I was going to wait for his response before moving my vote but I don't see me changing my mind on it. On topic on people's entrances to the game; jon's entrance was poor but finglove's... gg.

VOTE: finglove

[Not_Mafia]

I was planning on moving my vote as I stated, plus I provided justification when Majiffy just naked voted, I just got impatient waiting for Ninja's response

I wish I'd known I could have a space when I registered

[Not_Mafia]

Are we out of RVS yet?

Yes

[Not_Mafia]

Finglove/Jon/Wolfy/?/?

[Not_Mafia]

Finglove/Jon/Wolfy/?/?

/kat/notmaf?

Really I want you two to come in here and talk about recent happenings.

I still prefer a Finglove lynch, Jon looks a bit scummier for his passive agressive "popularity contest" comments, my other reads haven't changed

[Not_Mafia]

I still prefer a Finglove lynch, Jon looks a bit scummier for his passive agressive "popularity contest" comments, my other reads haven't changed

You are saying: " Jon looks more likely to be scum but i want to lynch Finglove". What????

I meant Jon looks scummier than he did before, not anything relative to Finglove, should have phrased that a bit better.

[Not_Mafia]

Instead of hunting scums, it seems we're having popularity contests going on presently.

It's a cheap way to dismiss the case against him, basically saying "no one is scum hunting so there is no case against me"

[Not_Mafia]

Device, why the flip flop?

Kat, Jon I understand but why tier? He's pretty null to me

[Not_Mafia]

Wut? Hannah?

[Not_Mafia]

Fearkilling you tonight then

[Not_Mafia]

Prod dodge (ish) post, just to say finglove is obvscum, his iso is so forced

[Not_Mafia]

Hannah darling your wish is my command

Well, this is an interesting D1.

Ninja trigger: what about S&M's discussion with Katarina made you think she was scum/werewolf? Looks pretty null to me. Unless you're just trying to back up S&M?

Not mafia: It doesn't look like Katarina needs your help - why all the compliments?

Shatteredviewpoint: Your vote came out of nowhere? Care to explain?

VOTE: S and Em because that is literally the most annoying username I've ever seen. I either write it "S and em" in which case I start double counting your vote "S and Em voted for..." or S&M in which case everything gets pretty foul - I think I typed "back up S&M" and I just don't want to go there. So the sooner I don't have to write your name, the better

This entry looks forced as balls to me and I don't like the dichotomy between his content related questions and his RVS vote

RVSing this far into the Day? What's up with that?

That name annoyed me. And the day isn't measured by time (really), but by whether people have shown anything worth voting for. Which they now have.

UNVOTE:

@finglove It wasn't a matter of complimenting or helping Kat, it was about ascertaining why ninja was so tryhard and why their response didn't really make sense. I don't really see what about my questioning differs to your question directed at Ninja that makes me buddying Kat

You had some serious content related questions for people so why did you follow it up with am RVS joke vote?

Because I didn't think any of them merited a meaningful vote. Responses to questions are always the most interesting.

Shatteredviewpoint: Your vote came out of nowhere? Care to explain?

No, but thanks for asking.

Why not? Are you planning to just hide behind mod-banter and not actually contribute?

VOTE: Shatteredviewpoint

I don't like his transition from RVS posting to 'serious' posting here, doesn't feel natural to me, his excuse for his RVS vote is poor to say the least.

That name annoyed me. And the day isn't measured by time (really), but by whether people have shown anything worth voting for. Which they now have.

Who are the people that have shown something worth voting for?

Err, the people I vote for later in the same post? I thought that was pretty explanatory. And why are you so eager to build a wagon on me? You don't seem to have a case on me, so are you just messing around?

Hmm. This game reeks of inactive.

Shift seems more... shifty than usual though.

mnemonic, you've only posted a few times and haven't really contributed anything. In fact your only substantive remark was on Shift in that post, which was frankly knock out. There's going to be a draught in your glass house at this rate.

The first is a bad omgus, the second is hypocritical and seems like a bad attempt to shift a wagon on to him.

tl;dr I'm learning to trust my early game reads more and finglove looks awkward and forced as all get out.

I agree about Enomis being a potential partner, NT still seems town to me though.

[Not_Mafia]

And by tl;dr I mean not even remotely tl;dr

[Not_Mafia]

Are you the partner?

Not sure if you're joking or not but they're a hydra

[Not_Mafia]

How long can we stagnate this day? I like Finglove and Jon for the lynch so just leave it open to S and Em imo

[Not_Mafia]

It's not just myself and Kat that are scumreading you, do you not feel like taking the others who are scumreading you on? Also weren't you townreading me not long ago? I could parrot what the others have said about you (including yourself apparently) or I could pull some new angle on you out my arse but I don't really feel like being dragged into some nonsense unproductive omgus argument and stagnating this phase any more than it already is.

[Not_Mafia]

How are we supposed to get reads if no one comes out to play? I'd rather argue with Town, than yawn with scum.

That's all very well and good but unless you're able to generate content yourself you can't really point the finger at people not able to do the same. I don't know if that's what you were trying to do by lynchbaiting yourself but you just seem to be PoEing scumreads off the people who are scumreading you, I could understand this from town if they felt they were being wagoned (or having a wagon proposed on them) baselessly by scum but it's clear you understand why you're being scum read so you just look like scum hunting for the other faction to me

[Not_Mafia]

Nothing to accompany your hammer? Really? Why are you willing to hammer him all of a sudden when we 3 open intents?

[Not_Mafia]

lol, forgot about that

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Jon

Still my biggest scumread

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Jon

Still my biggest scumread

[Not_Mafia]

• The game starts with Day 1.

[Not_Mafia]

For anyone who thinks Katarina's boisterousness is alignment-indicative, that's just her

[Not_Mafia]

Slight town because I found her tentativeness around the Finglove lynch/hammer opening genuine

[Not_Mafia]

For anyone who thinks Katarina's boisterousness is alignment-indicative, that's just her

Nobody said anything about boisterousness.

What you're calling 'overdefensiveness' in no different than her usual self

[Not_Mafia]

I still like NT for newb town, Jon appears to have siteflaked, liking S and Em less and less, #250 in particular looks really forced.

VOTE: S and Em

Kat and Majiffy are slight town reads, Tier is aswell but to a lesser extent.

[Not_Mafia]

I can easily see that post coming from newbtown that is going defensiveness just because they want to stay in the game, it's not enough to outweigh the early townvibes I got. In regards to Tier's townreads, the one on Jon was the biggest turnaround so I'd like to see that one explained at least

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: ninja trigger

#293 was a bridge too far for newbtown

[Not_Mafia]

Athena is horrified

[Not_Mafia]

What do you mean by differently scum? You think S and Em is one faction and Wolfy is the other?

[Not_Mafia]

Ah, that makes more sense

[Not_Mafia]

Care to elaborate on your reads?

[Not_Mafia]

But if he flips scum, we've lynched scum, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that point.

[Not_Mafia]

Honestly the game was just moving slow so I jumped on the larger wagon for fingelove, as far for having a read on fingelove the dog really did eat it, in other words I never had one.

So why did you lie earlier?

[Not_Mafia]

I need to look at the timeline of events there but I remember Tiershift mentioning a scumread on me at least twice, one of which I'm pretty sure was on d1.

[Not_Mafia]

@mnem can we get a reads list from you please, I don't think you've actually posted any content posts so far

[Not_Mafia]

I've reread your post at the top of this page a few times now and I don't understand it, are you trying to say he's been inconsistent? He readflipped on Jon and Kat but he was consistent with his read on me, he hadn't talked about me as much as he had Jon and Kat however he mentioned a scumread of me d1 and you've quoted him talking about me in a group with Kat and Jon.

[Not_Mafia]

I don't really see myself as having short circuited discussion, just pointing out that what people were scum reading her for was just her usual posting style

[Not_Mafia]

Finglove/Jon/Wolfy/?/?

/kat/notmaf?

Really I want you two to come in here and talk about recent happenings.

A passive mention but a mention nonetheless

[Not_Mafia]

That wasn't a question about mine and Kat's relationship though, it was him completing my "Finglove/Jon/Wolfy/?/?" scum read thing with me and Kat and asking us to comment on recent happenings

[Not_Mafia]

Why are there no painkillers in the jungle?

[Not_Mafia]

@mnem can we get a reads list from you please, I don't think you've actually posted any content posts so far

VOTE: mnemonic device

[Not_Mafia]

You gotta remember that my vote did lead to a mafia death

But then what's scummy or bad about lynching scum?

[Not_Mafia]

You gotta remember that my vote did lead to a mafia death

But then what's scummy or bad about lynching scum?

[Not_Mafia]

^Flail. So you think he lead a bus on his partner when you were a perfectly viable lynch?

[Not_Mafia]

I don't recall ever calling you Wolf specifically. And considering you jumped on at L-2 after that terrible post when the lynch was headed full steam at him then yes I think you could have 'bussed' and that he didn't, they're just not equivalent situations at all.

[Not_Mafia]

This is going nowhere, and quickly

VOTE: Wolfy

Let's see if we can never mislynch

[Not_Mafia]

You had already claimed

[Not_Mafia]

I actually won't believe you until mod does the flip, but to humour you, it's obvious you think Jiffy is the wolf, who do you think is mafia?

[Not_Mafia]

No one was hopping off your wagon after a VT claim

[Not_Mafia]

Trolling for the lulz

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: mnemonicdevice

Time to contribute

[Not_Mafia]

Something to bare in mind today, if we lynch a townie and then the wolf kills a townie, mafia win

[Not_Mafia]

Well in 2:2:1 we have to rely on us lynching mafia and then wolf hitting mafia or wolf hitting mafia twice if we no lynch, so that's not exactly a desirable situation either.

[Not_Mafia]

Did everyone enjoy the site's time of the month?

[Not_Mafia]

Mine is mainly PoE, I just can't see Mnemonic town next to Majiffy and Kat

[Not_Mafia]

@Thor Majiffy is town because he lead wagons on both factions, I'm aware that bussing exists but neither felt like a bus to me, we know now that at least one of the mafia did bus but he's made himself too much of an NK target to be mafia. Kat is town because I found her tentativeness surrounding the Finglove wagon genuine so I don't think she's mafia and I don't think her early game interactions with Ninja come from scumpartners

[Not_Mafia]

I've found my early game reads to be more accurate in general so I pay attention to my early game reads, I believe I've mentioned this in this game.

You're far overstating my defense of Kat, people were scumreading her over a style/personality issue, which would have been a waste of time to discuss, so having experience playing with her offsite I pointed this out.

I'm scumreading Lia mainly for the slot, Jon just seemed to be 'scumhunting' by PoEing off his wagon despite acknowledging there was a legitimate case on him, so it just looked like scum hunting other scum to me. You is mainly PoE but I find your cases so far to be quite poor, I could also see a Thor/Mnem + JP mafia team with you chainsawing for him considering you've popped up and started attacking everyone on his wagon.

So are you calling Reinoe Mafia or Werewolf, because the 'slip' you've highlighted in 541 would indicate Werewolf to me but you're pushing this as a mafia lynch. 549 I don't see as alignment indicative, if he was mafia as you say I'm pretty sure he'd utilise the PM function rather than be so brazen as to ask about his own win condition in thread

[Not_Mafia]

You are pretty much correct. I think that scum is [Thor, JP, Lia] and I don't think that Lia and JP are partners since Lia has been consistently attacking Justin since subbing in, which leaves me with Thor mafia and I'm currently heavily leaning JP as the partner

JP calling Reinoe slot mafia specifically

At this point I think the most likely mafia is Katarina/Reinoe. And maybe it works in concert with a Katarina and mnemonic scum team, but I just don't think so. Katarina slips onto the Finglove wagon with the next to last vote. She does this after several posts in which she pointed out that she didn't suspect Finglove. The reason she gives for voting Finglove is because Enomis stopped voting Finglove. And even after she settles her vote on the wagon she posts this:

At this point I think the most likely mafia is Katarina/Reinoe. And maybe it works in concert with a Katarina and mnemonic scum team, but I just don't think so. Katarina slips onto the Finglove wagon with the next to last vote. She does this after several posts in which she pointed out that she didn't suspect Finglove. The reason she gives for voting Finglove is because Enomis stopped voting Finglove. And even after she settles her vote on the wagon she posts this:

I could flash wagon on jon, we can probably do that too.

and even throws the chaff into the air that is post 187.

Anyway, by my way of thinking we are probably in the same place tomorrow morning whether we lynch mafia or wolf today. If we lynch wolf we're at three to two and if we lynch mafia the wolf has no reason not to kill tonight, and we probably wake up to two-one-one. There's a one in four shot, though, that wolf hits Mafia, which would leave us at three to one, and so I'm going to:

Vote: Reinoe

By the way, Reinoe, Lia wasn't just not voting Ninja, she was actually voting with him, as, at the time of Ninja's lynch, one of only two votes on Wolfy. Lia is the least likely wolf in town.

My consideration was whether to vote for someone I believe to be mafia or someone I believe to be a wolf, and I chose to vote for the person I think is most likely mafia for that reason.

Reinoe should respond to the slip accusations yes. I'll talk about the slip more once he has responded.

Regarding Kat

Here is where I find her tentativeness around the wagon genuine and I find it a genuine concern over a mislynch rather than anything scum motivated

Nah, cant hammer on that. Wagon formed too early for a Jungle Republic game.

@Kat - Disagree about wagon speed. Two factions, don't know each other and no reason to preserve them. Basically you're just going to see a bit of resistance from wolf-bus - but it happens; last JR game I was in, I had to bus my buddy D1 as wolf and ended up winning.

I'd like to see this wagon go through ASAP because I have some thoughts on each of the votes flip-dependent.

You do make a point, I seem to have forgotten setup because Ive been thinking wolf as an individual then read back and remembered there were two. Last JR I played was inactive as shit.

I kind of dont like the substance of the wagon though, the votes are just too drably placed that just looking at it is eh. Trust me I'd love to yolohammer but I'd prefer some other counterwagon.... like people i actually scumread

I want to know why enomis is so concerned with NT's opinion of it all. There are 5 other people on that wagon.

He asked me as well of my opinion on the wagon and why I won't part take in it, I think it's more of asking people that were readily accessible.

I'm starting to think that this wagon should just hammer soon because of the fact that he took the opportunity to see where the wagon is going. I think his vote was possibly a wagon/bus attempt and considering the wagon wasn't pushing he tried to salvage face by stepping away from it.

Don't get me wrong, as an individual player I can't really see FingLove's super scumtells (if someone would kindly chop up his ISO for me and prove me wrong then that'd be lovely). I do think that this is a possible partner tell due to enomis' reaction to the wagon.

And these are the interactions with NT that I don't see coming from scumpartners

I originally didn't think anything ill or out of the ordinary of Kat. Call me naive but I normally don't worry about it when people make stuff like this their opening statement into a game

In this game I am

not

the Werewolf.

Thus this is why I failed to see her as a threat to the village yesterday

but after seeing her talk it out with S and Em my mind is made up

VOTE:

Katarina

You do know that his statement is poor reasoning and deduction just to have a bad read on a person right?

Let's use his logic for this example:

Ninja Trigger has not claimed to be part of the town.
OPTION 1: Ninja Trigger must be part of of the scum faction because he'd be lying if he claimed town.
OPTION 2: Ninja Trigger must be

the

wolf due to his inability to claim as town.

You do know that his statement is poor reasoning and deduction just to have a bad read on a person right?

Let's use his logic for this example:

Ninja Trigger has not claimed to be part of the town.
OPTION 1: Ninja Trigger must be part of of the scum faction because he'd be lying if he claimed town.
OPTION 2: Ninja Trigger must be

the

wolf due to his inability to claim as town.

I did to a certain extent claim myself as a non threat a town, when I stated

Thus this is why I failed to see her as a threat to the village yesterday
VOTE:

Katarina

I used the term Village in my last statement kinda loosely there so let me expand on what I meant. When I called you a threat to the village the message that I wanted to convey was this. I want to protect the town, and the people who dwell there, and that includes protecting myself along with the rest of town from the werewolves and the mafia.

I hope that help clears things up, and as far as my ability to read people I am not the greatest people reader out there. But under your own logic that you provided against me, about my inability to claim Town, you gotta remember that your opening statement was no different

In this game I am

not

the Werewolf.

Which could be completely true about not being a Werewolf, but you could very easily be a Mafia goon, and thus a threat to the village that I am trying to protect.

I could

maybe

see it as distancing, but I don't think so

[Not_Mafia]

JP calling Reinoe slot mafia specifically

The post you quoted is from before the slip...I find this either not wise on your part or intentionally deceitful on your part. I'm not sure why it should work as a point against JP. Can you clarify this any?

That didn't really occur to me that the "slip" followed after these. If it hadn't, it would show inconsistency with case he's presenting and what he's saying in terms of what scumteam he's hunting, which would indicate he's one faction hunting the other.

And about Kat, just tonally I found her posts sincere and born of genuine town concern, I think if it were her resisting a lynch on her partner it would have been at least somewhat evident, we're from the same homesite so I know she's only been scum twice and it looks like her townposting to me

[Not_Mafia]

Hence why I am being completely and totally honest and open. Werewolves have to work with town tonight to lynch a goon because an erroneous nightkill tonight leads to a mafia win.

If I'm correct they're reading this as you slipping up about your tactics as wolf

[Not_Mafia]

That didn't really occur to me that the "slip" followed after these. If it hadn't, it would show inconsistency with case he's presenting and what he's saying in terms of what scumteam he's hunting, which would indicate he's one faction hunting the other.

Well...yes, that's why I asked you about it. Except your only example didn't gel with that concept. Now that you know the order was different...is he still scummy, or has the read there changed?

Well he's still in the scumpool by PoE but my scumcase on him now is admittedly largely associative

And about Kat, just tonally I found her posts sincere and born of genuine town concern, I think if it were her resisting a lynch on her partner it would have been at least somewhat evident, we're from the same homesite so I know she's only been scum twice and it looks like her townposting to me

How is her tone different when scum?
If you can't answer this - my next question will be 'then how do you believe you can spot her townposting enough to rule her out as scum and resort to PoE as a scumhunting tool?'[/quote]

She's a lot more flaily as scum, so I don't think she'd have such a level headed and natural looking response to her partner being hard wagoned

[Not_Mafia]

http://koalas.forumotion.com/t6p50-fash ... day-4#1286

Link starts at the more relevant section of the game

She is Valentino in this, she claimed 2 shot sensor (which she was, but a scum one) and is flaily when grilled on the timing of her claim and about her calling her scumpartner conf. town for being a dayvig

In regards to Reinoe's "slip", I don't think it was a hard and fast slip as you and Justin seem to think it is and if I were town in his position then I wouldn't even know how to respond to it other than saying "lol I said it weird"

[Not_Mafia]

Well it's not quite that simple but essentially yes. I see it as flaily for her because she's not the type to drop profanity laden "you are bad at this"esque comments as town, she's more "you are wrong and this is why I believe you're wrong"

[Not_Mafia]

It's not simply not cussing and it doesn't make her town; I find her reaction to the wagon to be more in line with her town play than her scum play and there is nothing in your slot, JP and Lia that would make me townread them more than the Kat slot

[Not_Mafia]

You can strike the "makes her town" bit from my comment, misinterpreted your post a bit

[Not_Mafia]

@Reinoe WW lynch is better as a mafia lynch leads to murky and awkward endgame scenarios whereas a WW lynch gives us a clean nightless path to winning

@Thor it was a pressure vote on Mnem for lurking that I haven't felt compelled to move. I'm still trying to figure out if you're mafia or ww. Enomis kill could point to your slot but also could have come from NT or WW may have been hunting mafia, which the Enomis and S and Em kills but not so much the Tier kill could indicate. I can definitely see a Thor/JP scumteam but I'm wary of pre flip associative reasoning. If JP is scum I don't think he's WW as he was attacking Tier day 2 and I doubt he'd ruin his momentum like that as WW. So that rules him out for today's lynch for me. Reinoe advocating a goon lynch is admittedly very... bleargh, for want of a better word.

UNVOTE: Thor it's now redundant as a pressure vote as I've had to explain that and I do think you're more likely goon. Currently leaning Lia as the wolf due to the slot. Going to reread Jon and see if I can see what made the others readflip day 2.

[Not_Mafia]

@N_M - the Thor/Justin case exists, though I'd note it's entirely from Justin's side of the equation. Roll that thought around in your head and see if wisdom comes.

That's true, but it's also true that one of those slots didn't do anthing up until day 4

Can you link me to your evidence of Justin not being a wolf[/qoute]

Here's the start of his push on Tier (the n2 kill) day 2, So I don't see the wolf railroading someone only to kill them, it wasn't as if Tier had Justin in a precarious position at the end of the day either.

and also maybe expand on why Lia makes sense as one? I have no sense of Lia

It's not a wolf specific read but a generic scum-read on her slot. I had a scum read on her predecessor

why has town not asked for the Seer to reveal?

I assume that if the seer had a guilty or significant enough innocents at his point they'd have claimed of their own accord.

[Not_Mafia]

I think he is mafia and I want a wolf lynch today to avoid these murky multifaction endgame situations. Still need to do a reread to get a clear wolfspect.

[Not_Mafia]

Okay, so what are Mnem's results first of all?

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Lia

Majiffy stays as my townread. Lia I find the most likely to be wolf, I think Justin is mafia, and that he and Lia are unlikely partners, which leaves me with Reinoe+JP and Lia

[Not_Mafia]

Majiffy sheeped me. I feel like this is supposed to be a turning point in my life

[Not_Mafia]

Not_Mafia? I only joined the mafia when I started defending the mnemonic/thor slot, because I always found someone to be more suspicious of than mnemonic and clearly I was trying to chainsaw to defend him. So then...

That's because today is when the alignment hunting started

...I not only stay mafia when the guy I was defending, the guy who defined me as mafia, turned out not to be, but my new partner is Reinoe, who I was "chainsawing" to try to save my old mafia partner mnemonic/thor. The same Reinoe/Katarina who you've spent the whole game defending.

I've laid out my reasons for thinking you're not the wolf and I see Majiffy as far more likely town than you, which leaves me with you as mafia.

Majiffy sees you as obvtown. Do you see him the same way? Because it surely has seemed for an awfully long time that it was Katarina/Reinoe who held that spot for you. Why doesn't it anymore?

He is and was my biggest townread. Again, you're overstating my defense of Kat/Reinoe.

Also, though Lia has expressed suspicion of me throughout the game I've been reading her slot as town since I first entered the game. Full disclosure, I thought it was the slot most likely to be the seer, so what do I know, but based on the "case" on me being mafia, which was that I expressed doubt about lynching the slot that now seems to have flipped seer, Lia would seem a more likely partner, since the situation is almost identical.

Why did you think Lia's slot was the seer?

And just out of curiosity, since you seem to have settled on me and Reinoe as your mafia team, which one of us would you vote to lynch first?

Assuming we don't hit mafia today Thor is the one who will be driving that ship tomorrow. If this is your roundabout way as asking me which read I'm more confident in. It's you.

Ninja was flailing out of the gate. And not just regular flailing. Extra special horrible flailing. He admitted that he was lying about having a read on someone in response to the first question I asked him. He was so artlessly terrible that if I'd been scum, and he'd been my scum partner, I would have calculated my chances of winning at being infinitely greater with him gone from the town as quickly as possible, because at best he was not long for this world, and given enough time he would have probably gotten me caught too. Ninja's only real value was as a judas goat, and if you're going to have to run one out there you might as well run them as hard as you can. You seem to have a pretty high regard for Majiffy as a player, and Majiffy certainly has a high regard for himself. So ask yourself this:

If Majiffy is the wolf, how do you think he would have dealt with Ninja?

Ninja was being read as town-flailing by you, me, S and Em and Wolfy at the start of day 2. Majiffy forced through that lynch and ramped up the pressure on NT that eventually led to some of us read flipping. The main reason for this was him lying about having a case on Finglove, Majiffy was the one who called him out for empty wagon jumping with on case, do you not think Majiffy would have used the night phase to help NT construct a response to this?Furthermore, this means they would have had to have killed Enomis, who was prime lynch bait for his awkward hopping off of the Finglove wagon and that Majiffy would then had to have pilloried through the NT lynch. So unless you believe they co-ordinated the bus, Majiffy makes no sense as Wolf

[Not_Mafia]

Not seeing what the softclaim is there

[Not_Mafia]

That's because today is when the alignment hunting started

Well, you've misinterpreted what I wrote here, whether unintentionally or not. What is the evidence that I was mafia, or scum of any sort for that matter, that exists from before my "association" with "certain mafia" "mnemonic/thor"?

Because Majiffy is my town read and I don't think the Tiershift and S and Em (come to think of it) kills would make sense from you

He is and was my biggest townread. Again, you're overstating my defense of Kat/Reinoe.

Posts in which you defended Katarina (not including those where you joined to press a case on jon/lia cming in to today: 12. You made 47 other posts in total, including 12 no content posts. So 12 just over one quarter of your posts with content. I lefy out today because it might be fair to argue that in part you were arguing over your defense of the Katarina slot today, but the number today is 14-8. I just don't think I'm overstating this, Not_Mafia. I don't think it would be possible to overstate it.

I could go through your ISO and pull out an arbitrary number of posts where you're doing X or defending Y. Pull up posts where you think my "defense" of Kat's slot is fake or a partner tell. Because all I remember you having a problem with is me correcting people reading her for non-alignment indicative things, i.e. her general posting style and personality

Assuming we don't hit mafia today Thor is the one who will be driving that ship tomorrow. If this is your roundabout way as asking me which read I'm more confident in. It's you.

Oh I don't know about that, Not_Mafia. I mean if we foolishly end up lynching Lia today I can see tomorrow breaking with you making the argument that maybe Justin's mafia with Reinoe, or maybe Justin's mafia with Majiffy, but since Justin's surely mafia let's lynch him (so Reinoe and I can win). I notice that Reinoe's already floating me and Majiffy as scum buddies (which is...insane) so the seed's already in the ground. And it's disingenuous to say Thor would be driving the ship. Thor and your mafia partner would hold two of the three votes necessary to power a lynch.

If Lia's flip were to contradict my current reads then yes my reads would change, what is your point here? And if you don't think Thor is going to take a stranglehold of any future lynches then you're in for a rude awakening tomorrow

Oh, and about Majiffy and the Ninja lynch. There was soft pushback, and even that pushback didn't last long, except from me and S and Em. But thank you for making me look back through that, because if I hadn't I wouldn't have noticed this:

VOTE: ninja trigger

being right next to this:

VOTE: ninja trigger

#293 was a bridge too far for newbtown

You and Katarina have just been going everywhere together, haven't you? At least you gave a reason.

Funniest thing about that. I was looking at competing day two wagons and the only other real one was on S & Em. It fell apart when two of it's three votes left at the same time. Let's see, those votes were from...huh...Katarina and you.

So we voted at a similar time based on a post from NT also sent S and Em and Wolfy (who was also scumreading S and Em) over the edge on their read of him, both of whom have flipped town.

Also, you didn't really respond to my not-wolf case on Majiffy

[Not_Mafia]

I don't see the Tiershift and S and Em kills coming from JP, he was in a 1v1 with Tier at the end of day 2 that Tier was barely trying to win and S and Em was whiteknighting him pretty hard

[Not_Mafia]

@Lia - if you are Mafia this is an optimal time to claim that, I'm not going to lynch you if you're Mafia, and anyone who isn't a Wolf would be playing bad if they kept voting you after a Mafia claim.

Nope, I'm VT. I've been going back and forth on who I think is most likely to be wolf and I keep coming back to reinoe. Why would mafia set up a seer fake claim knowing the wolf would kill them if they claimed it? But a wolf would have the motive of using it to counterclaim a guilty on them.

I'm still waiting for replies from reinoe.

I don't think that's necessarily a crumb though, from what I've googled it was referencing a character in a US soap opera who was infertile. But I guess the question actually at hand is "Did Lia genuinely believe that was a Seer crumb?" JP mentioning offhand with no real explanation that he thought Kat was Seer could maybe be a slip i.e. they discussed it in their QT and JP let it slip out. If they are scum together though then Lia has done some very solid distancing, which is what hold me back as reading them as a scumteam

[Not_Mafia]

Why do you think she posted it if it wasn't a crumb?

I think it was me that Justin said he thought was a seer

She posts weird stuff like that a fair bit so I don't think that was definitely a crumb, I think Wolf is in [Lia/Reinoe], so the question for me now is "Does Lia genuinely believe that was a breadcrumb?" and this crumb thing is pretty random to pull out your arse like this.

The bold is correct. So ignore what I said in #715 about a slip.

Maybe he the whiteknighting meant they were mafia?

Certainly possible. But if I were in JP's position as wolf, I definitely wouldn't have made kill choices. I understand that that doesn't mean he didn't do it, but they still seem like bizarre choices for a JP wolf from my perspective

[Not_Mafia]

ISOing Lia her attacks on Justin are actually a lot tamer than I remember, but her other reads (Tier and S and Em) sync up with the wolf kills, so this game is a bit of a headfuck right now

[Not_Mafia]

Reinoe following JP on to the Majiffy wagon like this makes me think they actually might not be partners, from our other game I'd think Reinoe would know better than that.

This Majiffy wolf thing only makes sense if he co-ordinated that bus, even then following Finglove's flip (and even before it) he was a pretty universal townread, so the only motivation I can see for him co-ordinating a bus like that is to combat the "Why aren't you dead?" question, which he could easily counter with "Wolf are hunting mafia" which he would know if he were the one making the kills. For Majiffy to be mafia and lead that bus, he'd have to have an expectation that Wolves will always aim for mafia with their kills, as if Wolves were aiming for town he'd be the prime NK target.

[Not_Mafia]

She posts weird stuff like that a fair bit so I don't think that was definitely a crumb,

Can you link me to some examples of this please?

She was the announcer in this game. Even then it's not like it's impossible for mafia to crumb seer. The current Majiffy wagon and and an re-read of your ISO is making me re-think things anyway.

[Not_Mafia]

Yeah scumpartners don't sit on such a ridiculous wagon like this

VOTE: Reinoe

[Not_Mafia]

@Justin You seem to have invested a lot of time thinking about the optimal strategy for mafia

[Not_Mafia]

She was the announcer in this game.

I had a quick look at that but couldn't see what you were referring to. Was that the only link you had?

Look at the announcements at daystart, unfortunately ISOing is useless for mafia purposes on there so it's a matter of finding daystarts manually

[Not_Mafia]

Well I realised I was off in my Justin/Lia not likely thing and a Justin/Reinoe mafia aren't going to be sat on that wagon like that. And that leaves me with Majiffy or Reinoe wolf. Meaning I either have to believe Majiffy co-ordinated a massive and unrepentant bus or Kat managed to interact with her partner in a way that didn't look like distancing. And I consider the latter more likely.

Also pointing out that Lia has expressed desire in both a Reinoe and a Majiffy lynch, so she can easily make herself kingmaker here in which lynch ends up being offered to you.

[Not_Mafia]

So Reinoe's claim. Actual mafia or Wolf desperation?

[Not_Mafia]

Actually Reinoe if you are mafia, you should be self hammering.

If we lynch wolf you get lynched tomorrow and then your partner is going to have get through 2 lynches with a named townie in the mix with lots of info to gleam from your wagon. If we lynch town, Wolf kills you tonight and your partner is left in 2-1-1 meaning they have to lynch wolf and survive a 1v1 LYLO. If you are mafia your best move here is to self hammer. If you don't then that's a wolf claim and you're getting lynched anyway.

[Not_Mafia]

@Thor If wolf was wagoned to L-1 why would they not claim mafia?

[Not_Mafia]

And what if Reinoe is wolf and Maiffy is VT? I don't see what is stopping that scenario, a mafia CC isn't guaranteed here, they've already shown they don't want to claim despite your push for them to. What happens then?

If Reinoe is mafia he should doing what I said in #777 for his team.

PEDIT: I've seen you self hammer as town. If you are mafia then self hammer or explain your resistance to? Respond properly to that post and tell me why as mafia your optimal move is not to self hammer

[Not_Mafia]

Let's not make this in to a game of chicken, that is bollcks and a wolf claim by Reinoe. Thor don't let your hubris about getting a mafia claim get you killed.

[Not_Mafia]

Let's not make this in to a game of chicken, that is bollcks and a wolf claim by Reinoe. Thor don't let your hubris about getting a mafia claim get you killed.

[Not_Mafia]

Reinoe has lost the game because he got wagoned to L-1 as wolf. His only move as wolf is to claim mafia, point 3 is irrelevant because will die.

[Not_Mafia]

Thor will die*

[Not_Mafia]

If no one can answer this question then Reinoe is wolf:

Why wouldn't mafia self hammer as per #777?

Thor's hubris is getting us a sub-optimal lynch right now

PEDIT: You can talk unfounded possibilities all you want it's pointless, answer my question above or hammer Reinoe

[Not_Mafia]

I will vote Majiffy only if I am left with no other choice.

PEDIT: Seriously JP counter #777 or just stop

[Not_Mafia]

Hammer then. I'm calling your bluff

[Not_Mafia]

If it hits one minute I'm hammering

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Majiffy

You did this to yourself Thor

[Not_Mafia]

Why did you claim mafia as VT?

[Not_Mafia]

And if Majiffy does flip Wolf, how are you going to dig yourself out of this hole tomorrow? If you are the VT then you could have just single handedly lost us the game

[Not_Mafia]

Love you too Justin. GG everyone, sorry to bus you like that finglove, just kinda panicked.

Thanks to Marquis for hosting. Didn't expect that outcome, thought wolf was Reinoe for sure after that and he would no kill, town didn't deserve to lose that way.