Mini 425 Generic Western Mafia- Game over!

[Guardian]

Why <3 Occult?

Why not?


Also guardian your last post proves it, even though you disagree on minor points you completly assume that thesp is town.

Occult, I was going to let you misinterpreting my points in post 366 slide, but since maybe you are considering making it a trend I can't.

I disagree, we need to reread and see if any of it makes sense.

I did and saying john is 100% a SK makes no sense.

Ok, that's fine, but nowhere did thesp say that John is 100% sk, and also don't respond to my point here and then later say that only one of my points "make any sense."

Show me where I said that because he said it it makes it true.

Instead of questioning way he thinks he has this game down, you basicly asked if he could complete this game in 10 days.

Instead of responding to my point, you you basically twisted my joke (so marked with a ) and tried to make it seem that it was the central part of my argument.

Yeah I know, seeing a lynch or at least some more progress would be nice though . I didn't unvote because I like my vote on Avinyl so long as he is not at lynch -1.

This is the only part of your post that makes sense.

Finally, Thesp seems to just be looking for reactions with this post. I doubt he has as much of a grasp on this game as his post said he did.

Ok.. so that's three parts of my post that make sense not one. I agree he may be just looking for reactions, but I needed to reread anyway so I reread with his points in mind, and none of them are complete BS.

Why <3 Occult?

Why not?

I wanted his response not yours, if there is a reason to believe you aren't scummy I'd love to hear it.

Also guardian your last post proves it, even though you disagree on minor points you completly assume that thesp is town.

This is simply not true. I am not on board with half of his ideas, AND I think he might be scum. Some examples:

2) I trust you implicitly. NOT. . I like your style, and discussion, though.

Me directly sating that I don't trust him.

I see no Occult/Peter disassociation

Me disagreeing with one of his main points...

John, maybe scum maybe not, imo not.

Me disagreeing with his analysis of John, which you brought up earlier that it isn't good to assume John is "100% SK".

Seriously, Occult, your interpretation of my responses and conclusion that I assume Thesp is town almost goes beyond misunderstanding, I'm going to have to

FOS

you for that.

[John]

Thesp, Yes i voted for you on playstyle, but you now have explaned yourself much more since. i will, however, not remove my vpte from you, due to the fact that you wrongly said a quote was by me, which seems to me, your trying to dicredit me, feuadian slip or not. and i wont pretend that your instant and quite radical assumtion that i am a SK does not bother me. the 2 put together, plus the fact its all at me, add up in my head.

[gorckat]

due to the fact that you wrongly said a quote was by me, which seems to me, your trying to dicredit me, feuadian slip or not.

Would you like a ladder to help with that one?

I get the SK thing- that'd tweak me a little too, I suppose. But he didn't touch up something you said or select a few lines of a longer post- he just tagged it wrong.

Its obvious you didn't say what he quoted- the quote was talking

about

you.

[Occult]

Ok, that's fine, but nowhere did thesp say that John is 100% sk, and also don't respond to my point here and then later say that only one of my points "make any sense."

Umm,

John is the Serial Killer.

Unvote: Occult, Vote: John

, since killin the SK is probably better this early than killing mafia.

John IS the serial killer. This part of your post makes absolutly no sense.

I wanted his response not yours, if there is a reason to believe you aren't scummy I'd love to hear it.

It wasn't a response it was a question.

conclusion that I assume Thesp is town almost goes beyond misunderstanding

You can disagree with his stances but you clearly believe he is protown. Your first post was excited about how someone agreed with you. And the secound seemed to be an attempt to save face. Also, thep says let's vote peter first and you go ahead and vote peter. I find 2 things wrong with this:
1) You say you don't completly trust him, but if that was true you would ask thesp for his reasoning. You justified your suspicions of peter because thesp says peter is scum (with no reason.)
2) If peter turns out town, this sets you up for a "But thesp told me to vote...." argument tommarrow

I'm going to have to

FOS

you for that.

If I remember correctly you already had one of those on me. Your getting very defensive over posts that weren't attacking you.

On a final note whether Thesp is town or scum he made a good play. If he's scum he knows who he could get to go along with him. If he's town he's generated a good discussion and can get a read on everyone.

[Occult]

Also,
john, your OMGUS vote doesn't look that good to me....

[Sefer]

Did the scum get a chance to talk pre-game?

As stated in the rules post, anyone with the ability to communicate at night could also communicate from the time they received their PMs until 24 hours after the official start of the game.

[Thesp]

Yeah? And actively lurking seems scummy, no?

It does, it just didn't seem to outweigh the others to me. It's certainly worth keeping an eye on.

If you are town, don't you want town to lynch people you are sure are scum?

I do. I'll work on support later.

Interesting bit there, it's fine with you that he doesn't understand why you wouldn't give reasoning. This means you're fine with his suspicion of you.

I'm not sure I see how you draw that conclusion.

Why <3 Occult?

He gets me. He's trying to decipher whether or not I'm scum (as well as the people I pegged), rather than saying, "Thesp scary! Ack!" That seems to me to be more of a pro-town response.

You came up with quite a lot of bold statement. Basically you walked in, started pointing fingers to assign antagonist roles. When questioned for reason, you flat out refused to give any. This confuses your bog-standard town.

Better than confuses - it evokes reactions. I think it gives more

raw

data to work from.

Anti-town = Good lynch

The last statement is true because at later stage of the game, it is detrimental to have an anti-town townie. If it is to get to lylo situation, a anti-town townie could throw a town side completely off. The bottom line is this. Lynching anti-towns should be up there with lynching all liars.

I disagree with your assessment.

By the way, do you realize that question 2) you've thrown at me is an utter thick concoction of WIFOM?

Logical rampage time.

WIFOM bears a fairly consistent pattern. Its standard for is as follows:

(1) Player

X

recognizes that scum are less likely to exhibit

Y

.
(2)

X

knowlingly and deliberately exhibits

Y

.
(3)

X

asserts his innocence on the basis of exhibiting

Y

. (If I were scum, I wouldn't do...)

Now, let's look at the question which you are asserting is "an utter thick concoction of WIFOM".

(2) Show that scum are more likely to fail to give reasoning. Some of what I've seen shows the opposite. (Also, often townies do anti-town things as well, do they not? Showing (1) may be irrelevant, if it is also the case that townies are more likely to do action X, even if X is unintentionally harmful.)

I'm a little uncertain as to where this utter thick concoction is. Is it in the part where I ask you to back up your assertion that the action I took is in fact indicative of me being scum? Or is it the question where I asked "often townies do anti-town things as well, do they not?", in which I am not asserting my own townieness, but instead am denying the equivalence of scum-ness and anti-townness (to which you yourself have assented)? Or is it something else I'm missing? Because at this point, I'm going to have to otherwise assume this is one of those, "Thesp scary! Boo! WIFOM! Boo!" arguments.

FOS: Raffles.

due to the fact that you wrongly said a quote was by me, which seems to me, your trying to dicredit me, feuadian slip or not.

Would you like a ladder to help with that one?

QFT.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Phew this is gonna be a bear to catch up on.

Welcome Thesp, glad to have you with us. I like your play style btw. Very interesting way to get reactions from people.

Honestly I'm at a loss on this game. It took me 2 hrs just to do a full read through, and I am not looking forward to going back and doing it again sorted by player. General feelings at the moment:

Guardian is town.

Peter could be a possible scum.

I get absolutely nothing from John, Avi, Mustafa, and Raffles. Speaking of which:

Unvote

Could be looking at a replacement for Avi here soon, so I'm not willing to vote him out if he could get replaced any time.

Gorck, Occult - pro-town.

Paradox I don't have a read on yet, and Ichigo was no help.

Thesp same thing, although I'm leaning toward Town.

As for Thesp's accusations on Page 14 (I think):

I don't see the John = SK connection, but I've never played a mafiascum game with an SK in it, so I don't really know what I'm looking for in that regard.

Peter I agree with, Occult not so much. Myself and Vryk I just don't see at all. Like I said, I haven't done an individual re-read, so maybe these will become apparent once I do.

Interesting responses to Thesp's initial post, esp. from Raffles, John, and to a lesser extent, PZ.

[Raffles]

@Thesp: Yes... a typical raw reaction to what you wrote would be "WTF?". I'm not sure how much information you can gain from that.

Tell me why you disagree.

If you really want to know, the argument you presented is a variant of too townie/scummy argument. It's a branch of WIFOM, and you laid it out in plain daylight.

You asked a question, and you FoS without waiting for a response? And at such a pathetic reason?

[Occult]

@Thesp: Yes... a typical raw reaction to what you wrote would be "WTF?". I'm not sure how much information you can gain from that.

I disagree.
I've liked the responses that Thesp generated. Though I'm very wary of Thesp, his first post was great help on getting A further read on everyone.

[Occult]

I know the question was at thesp, but look back at the responses.

[Guardian]

So, um, let's wagon Peterscum?

[Guardian]

ebwop: Or lynch me, confirm me as town, you know I trust thesp for good reasons, you know I really think Peter is scum etc... i found out you need 1 completed game to be allowed to mod, so um, help me out? . Damn vacation, conflicting with my mafia scum desires [/sarcasm]

[Avinyl]

I apologize, i had internet problems and then a friend of mine died in a traffic accident. I will reread and post soon.

[Occult]

ebwop: Or lynch me, confirm me as town, you know I trust thesp for good reasons, you know I really think Peter is scum etc... i found out you need 1 completed game to be allowed to mod, so um, help me out?

Actually you need 3 mounths on mafia scum and 5 completed if I remember right...

[Occult]

Welcome back Avi, no need to apologize.

[Thesp]

If you really want to know, the argument you presented is a variant of too townie/scummy argument. It's a branch of WIFOM, and you laid it out in plain daylight.

I'm really, really not seeing this. Can you show me how? Feel free to be patronizing in your explanation.

So, um, let's wagon Peterscum?

I could go with this.

ebwop: Or lynch me, confirm me as town, you know I trust thesp for good reasons, you know I really think Peter is scum etc...

This is a bad reason to lynch anyone, because genuine townies can be incorrect, and it's far preferable to lynch someone more likely to be scum.

I apologize, i had internet problems and then a friend of mine died in a traffic accident. I will reread and post soon.

God be with you and yours. Welcome back.

Interesting responses to Thesp's initial post, esp. from Raffles, John, and to a lesser extent, PZ.

I was thinking the

exact

same thing.

[Avinyl]

Probably Town

Occult: He seems pro-town to me, but it's just a gut feeling.
Gor

kc

at: Also gut feeling.
Thesp: I agree with Gor

kc

at that he plays mostly the same as in my other game with him.

Unsure

John: Mostly short posts, which makes it hard for me to know what to think.
Guardian: He confuses me, i change my mind about him each hour. He has done some scummy things and some anti-scummy things.

Scummy

Peter Venkman: I don't know why, but he feels like he is scum.

Unvote John Vote Peter Venkman

just because he feels scummy.
I will analyze the other 5 players posts later.

[Sefer]

Eighth official vote count:

Avinyl (2): mustafa15, Paradoxombie
Thesp(2): John, Raffles
Peter Venkman(2): Guardian, Avinyl
Guardian (1): Vryklan
John (1): Thesp

Not voting:gorckat, Peter Venkman, Occult, Vel-Rahn Koon

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

I apologize, i had internet problems and then a friend of mine died in a traffic accident. I will reread and post soon.

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. Welcome back.

[Guardian]

So, um, let's lynch Peterscum?

[Raffles]

No one's anywhere near close to lynch yet.

Peter, what's your take on all this?

[mustafa15]

So, um, let's wagon Peterscum?

So, um, let's lynch Peterscum?

So, um, that's really not helpful at all.

[Guardian]

LOL I thought I'd forgotten to post that.

Sorry for the double xD.

It is helpful though, kinda, gives us some focus... tee hee...

[Peter Venkman]

Peter, what's your take on all this?

My take on what? Guardian and I got into a

playstyle

debate. If the town thinks a lynch is appropriate on those grounds than this is going to be a tough game for us to win.

...and still, no one appears to understand the significance of having so many lurking players for so long. If we assume they are scum, than the Guardian/Peter debate becomes fairly arbitrary. If we assume they are town, than

the majority of this game has been played with scum having a larger percentage of active players, thus manipulating the outcome to a greater degree

.

So, who has been attempting to guide other players? Who has been rallying? Who has been supporting other players?

...and for the love of god,

WHY

have they been doing this? Everything that happens on day one is a WIFOM argument. No single town player has any reason to pat another on the back, or say things like "So and So makes a good point." Until we have some voting records and confirmations no town player has good reason to trust anyone else.

-Peter

[Paradoxombie]

unvote, Vote: Guardian

I was mostly voting Avinyl because I didn't think he was comming back.
(just a reminder)