Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES is there "for the moment"

That was pre-re-read. I upgraded my vote from temporary to permanentish in [1314].

Also, MBL, you're short 8%(the percentages should add up to 200 as we have 2 scum, not 1.92).

[Mr Stoofer]

New Page Vote Count

Nightfall: 3 (Ether GlorkCES)
Cogito Ergo Sum: 2 (Nightfall MBL)
Zindaras: 2 (Patrick Thesp )
MrBuddyLee: (Mgm)

Not voting: Zindaras

Looking for

5

votes for a lynch!

Deadline:

Friday 4th May 9.30am BST

Deadline still in place for the time being.

In the absence of a substantive post/groveling apology/huge bribe, Zindaras will be modkilled at deadline

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Come on, Zindy, you can do it!

[Nightfall]

I know that wehn you read this right now you might think that I am scum trying to act sincere, but I want to put this down since I am pretty sure that I dont have long in this game. When I am lynched and I turn out town like I said, please then look heavily at Ether. She has gotten through multiple days while acting as one of the scummiest of the bunch, and beyond being asked repeatedly to post and explain herself she has been allowed to float on by. CES and Glork are also giving me grave concerns right now.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You do know that we won't suddenly value your opinion above our own if you do turn up town, right?

[Nightfall]

Wow really? OMG thanks for pointing that out.
Will you at least value it more than you do now?, you know,
since now you think I am scum, and when I'm dead you'll know I'm town?
I would hope that you would at least think about it a little at that point.

[Glork]

I posted this in V/LA, but I'm going to have

severely

reduced access over the next 8-10 days. I'm still going to try to post in all of my games every other day or so.

[Thesp]

One incidence is not statistically significant as I'm sure there have been lots of people who have done this.

I agree it in and of itself is not statistically significant, but it's something I noticed. I don't feel like parsing through lots of old games looking for concrete examples, it

feels

like something I've seen scum do more than town, and it feels like something I would expect to see more from scum than town (i.e. I find it significantly less likely to be something town would do than scum from a behavioral standpoint).

Pointing out Channel did it does not support the hypothesis that it is a scum tell, but what does it do is link me to Channel in the mind of the reader.

It

does

support it, albeit weakly. Also, since I'm perceiving a behavioral similarity to how scum have behaved, I'm not terribly concerned if you feel it links you to CDB (who happened to be scum exhibiting similar behavior).

Also, my playstyle is wholly unlike Channel's. Even if Channel's actions were significant, blindly applying that to me is still wrong, painfully wrong.

Yes, your playstyle is different, but that doesn't mean you can't exhibit

some

similarities (especially scumtells, which are by definition not deliberate). I'm not blindly applying CDB to you, I'm applying something I think is more likely to be done by scum than town, which CDB happened to exhibit as well. It's this particular argument, that you always play bizarre and different, that makes me feel you're skating by without anyone giving you serious attention. I'd love for you to give some substantive reasoning for your votes and suspicions, even if sketchy. I'm

very

disturbed by how you seem to be waiting to see how the direction of the town points, then you follow it with little contribution.

I will most likely move my vote at deadline to prevent a no-lynch, especially if it's to CES.

[Glork]

Thesp, are you Nightfall's godfather?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I agree it in and of itself is not statistically significant, but it's something I noticed. I don't feel like parsing through lots of old games looking for concrete examples, it feels like something I've seen scum do more than town, and it feels like something I would expect to see more from scum than town (i.e. I find it significantly less likely to be something town would do than scum from a behavioral standpoint).

I don't think you need to include an example at all. You can just explain why scum do it more often than town. Or you can say something like "in my experience".

Can't you see my problem with that quote? The example you add doesn't support your line of reasoning to a significant extent but it does subtly link me to Channel. That is clearly scummy.

It's this particular argument, that you always play bizarre and different, that makes me feel you're skating by without anyone giving you serious attention.

It's not the nature of my playstyle that matters here, but rather merely the fact that it differs from Channel's. What is a scum tell for one, might be a town tell for another. Do you think I would be more likely to do it as scum or as town? Again, Channel doesn't enter into the equation.

[Mgm]

Thesp, you should seriously vote for Nightfall.

MBL, I'd like to hear a response to my most recent post. I'd also like you to drop the hammer on your scumbuddy Nightfall.

Why do you think Nightfall is scum? MBL calls my actions illogical, but I find Ether scummier than Nightfall by a horse's length. (Yes, I'm probably action illogical, you would too if the only viable bandwagons were on people you had on the innocent or probably innocent list.)

[Patrick]

I will vote Nightfall to make deadline That said:

Deadline still in place for the time being.

In the absence of a substantive post/groveling apology/huge bribe, Zindaras will be modkilled at deadline

Will this be instead of our lynch choice or in addition to our lynch?

Nightfall's post 1330 seems to be adressing CES as though he thinks or knows that CES is town, whereas two posts before he said that CES was a grave concern of his.

[MrBuddyLee]

Bleh, lack of activity.

For filler, I'll state that one way I approach scumhunting is to look for posts that I don't think scum could make. They're pretty rare, but once in a while I spot a post that simply reeks of genuine.

Patrick, Nightfall, Ether and MgM have made such posts in this game. I haven't gone back to pick out the specific posts and don't really care to, but I made mental notes as such at the time. I just wanted to state for the record that if any one of them is scum, they had a moment of genius at one point and completely and utterly bamboozled me.

Thesp, Glork, CES, and especially Zindaras, no such vibes from any of their posts. Glork came close once or twice but he's a good enough player that I hold him to a higher standard when looking for sincerity in his words.

disclaimer: this technique isn't by any means 100% successful but it's worked more often than not.

[Nightfall]

Nightfall's post 1330 seems to be adressing CES as though he thinks or knows that CES is town, whereas two posts before he said that CES was a grave concern of his.

It was more of a "If you happen to be town, I hope you take this to heart" type post. CES somewhat said that if I turn up town, my expressed thoughts would not influence his. I find that in itself a little scummy and so I said that if he is town then I hope he and everyone else does take what I said into consideration.

[Thesp]

Thesp, are you Nightfall's godfather?

Nightfall's recent posts feel very genuine to me.

I don't think you need to include an example at all. You can just explain why scum do it more often than town. Or you can say something like "in my experience".

Apparently, I thought it would be worthwhile. You'll have to forgive me for not posting as you'd like.

It's not the nature of my playstyle that matters here, but rather merely the fact that it differs from Channel's. What is a scum tell for one, might be a town tell for another. Do you think I would be more likely to do it as scum or as town? Again, Channel doesn't enter into the equation.

I'm not sure I need to independently assess each and every single player to the extent you are demanding here. Each player requires their individual assessment

as well as

an assessment based upon how players

generally

interact while playing. Again, I have serious problems with this argument (whether voiced, as here, or implicit) that you should be treated different because you're CRAAAAAAAAAAZYYYYYYYYY!!!!

Also, why are you voting for Nightfall? I missed that part. You've glossed over this while showing "activity" by attacking me. This reminds me of an instance where another player, who was scum...nevermind, you don't want to hear it.

Nightfall's post 1330 seems to be adressing CES as though he thinks or knows that CES is town, whereas two posts before he said that CES was a grave concern of his.

I'm not seeing this at all.

(Yes, I'm probably action illogical, you would too if the only viable bandwagons were on people you had on the innocent or probably innocent list.)

Been there, buddy.

For filler, I'll state that one way I approach scumhunting is to look for posts that I don't think scum could make. They're pretty rare, but once in a while I spot a post that simply reeks of genuine.

Patrick, Nightfall, Ether and MgM have made such posts in this game. I haven't gone back to pick out the specific posts and don't really care to, but I made mental notes as such at the time. I just wanted to state for the record that if any one of them is scum, they had a moment of genius at one point and completely and utterly bamboozled me.

Thesp, Glork, CES, and especially Zindaras, no such vibes from any of their posts. Glork came close once or twice but he's a good enough player that I hold him to a higher standard when looking for sincerity in his words.

disclaimer: this technique isn't by any means 100% successful but it's worked more often than not.

For the record, I'm a big believer in this technique. I find it interesting that after eliminating myself and Glork from your "a-townie" list, we are left with what I see as a very viable scumpair, CES/Zindaras. It is not lost upon me that you yourself are one of the people I've pondered as scum.

[Mr Stoofer]

41 hours and 3 minutes until deadline.

[Patrick]

It's worth asking whether we should lynch Nightfall or not, with Zindaras getting modkilled at deadline. Would it be best to find out Zindaras's alignment before killing anyone else? Or do we want to double lynch today?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Again, I have serious problems with this argument (whether voiced, as here, or implicit) that you should be treated different because you're CRAAAAAAAAAAZYYYYYYYYY!!!!

Wrong. I should be treated differently because I am different. So is Glrok. This is not about my playstyle, something I stated explicitly. Scum tells are only useful if you know how to apply them. It's about understanding and insight, not about rules.

Also, why are you voting for Nightfall? I missed that part. You've glossed over this while showing "activity" by attacking me. This reminds me of an instance where another player, who was scum...nevermind, you don't want to hear it.

My response to Ether's analysis contains the more concrete reasons for my vote. Why would you even consider adding an example in this case? What would it add?

It's worth asking whether we should lynch Nightfall or not, with Zindaras getting modkilled at deadline. Would it be best to find out Zindaras's alignment before killing anyone else? Or do we want to double lynch today?

Personally I think I have a fairly good read on Zindie, so I see no reason to no lynch. I'd say it mostly means that we don't have to sacrifice info for a lynch at this time. I'd like a Nightfall lynch, obv, but there's no need to blindly put votes on near deadline.

[Thesp]

Scum tells are only useful if you know how to apply them. It's about understanding and insight, not about rules.

I think I do have a better-than-average understanding and insight of scum tells and application thereof. I recognize I may be wrong in this.

Unvote: Zindaras, Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum.

Two candidates at 3 votes.

[Glork]

I agree with CES that we should lynch somebody today. Furthermore, Zindaras seems to be back on-site, so here's hoping that he actually makes that lifesaving post in the next day and a half or so.

Patrick, would you rather lynch Nightfall or CES? I would obviously prefer Nightfall, but if that's not going to happen, I'd move to CES before the deadline.

[Patrick]

Tough call but I'll go with Nightfall out of those two.

Unvote, vote: Nightfall.

That's 4.

[Mr Stoofer]

"Deadline Approaching" Vote Count

Nightfall: 4 (Ether Glork CES Patrick)
Cogito Ergo Sum: 3 (Nightfall MBL Thesp)
MrBuddyLee: 1 (Mgm)

Not voting: Zindaras

Looking for

5

votes for a lynch!

22 hours, 20 minutes until deadline!

Interesting fact: This is now the second-longest Normal Game ever; and likely to overtake the longest (Mafia 49: SpeedyKQ's Big New York) before it ends. However, Mafia 58: Ready Salted is nearly as big and has a long way to go, so that may end up the biggest. I wonder what how long this game would be if I had never imposed any deadlines?

[Patrick]

Interesting fact: This is now the second-longest Normal Game ever; and likely to overtake the longest (Mafia 49: SpeedyKQ's Big New York) before it ends. However, Mafia 58: Ready Salted is nearly as big and has a long way to go, so that may end up the biggest. I wonder what how long this game would be if I had never imposed any deadlines?

Indeed. Who wants deadlines.

Mgm - what do you think is the best play right now?

[Mr Stoofer]

Who wants deadlines.

The majority of players in this game (according to my inbox).

[Patrick]