Mini 424 - Game Over

[Elias_the_thief]

As much as I dislike OMG's playstyle, there's something to be said for a playstyle that is consistent from game to game.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

comedy.

my playstyle has been developed over hundreds of games of playing with people that arent tards.

im not making ANY mistakes. im playing like a pro-town player should. that is by NOT CARING what you people think of me and concentrating instead on finding scum. if you werent so stupid you would recognise that as pro-town and not suspect/vote me.

voting/suspecting based on 'overdefensiveness' is an excuse used by people that cant be bothered or dont want to actually read games to find scum. to reiterate:

OVERDEFENSIVENESS IS NOT A SCUM TELL

it never has been

it never will be

if i can teach you guys ANYTHING please let it be that

[Elias_the_thief]

overdefensiveness can be considered a scumtell if its out of a players normal style of play, or if the overdefense is extreme, such as launching triple post defensive in order to defend against a single random vote.

[Javert]

The discussion between Javert and Meme is interesting, mostly just talking about getting discussion going and such. The way I read it, it seems like Javert

over reacted

to meme's little joke about the lynch -1 thingy.

Please inform me how I 'overreacted'. Is there a proper way I should react when I think putting somebody at Lynch -1 when I don't feel there has been enough discussion? How I reacted was to get MeMe to explain her vote, and then we had a discussion based largely on whether or not we believed it was 'safe', whether it would encourage 'discussion', and whether that was a good way to go about getting said discussion. Since the particular line of discussion was lost in the server move, I unfortunately cannot link you to my specific posts - but if you could show me how I was overreacting, please do.

Also [in accordance with what I assume will be most players in this game], I believe that things such as 'overreactions', 'hyperdefensiveness', 'being overly emotional' etc. should all be taken with a grain of salt. You need to consider the context. Being emotional neither makes one town nor does it make one scum. It may, however, be a slight indicator on alignment for

particular players

. I am getting the feeling that omg_im_innocent_wtf's tone and yelling does not make him scum... but it certainly does not make him any more likely to be

town

simply because he has acted similarly in other games.

Furthermore, if somebody is not accustomed to playing with a certain player, I do not think calling them out for any of these things is a

bad thing

- after all, I have not played with many of you, so I

do not

know what your normal playing style is. In order to learn, I will need to elicit responses from you by calling out what I

do

see; if that is consistent with your behavior as a whole regardless of alignment, that is information we need to be

told

, not information that should be taken for granted. I can be sure without having to do research that pushing on any of those 'tells' has led to scum lynches before, and it has led to town lynches before. Sometimes the

reaction

to the accusation is more telling than the actual 'tell' itself, is what I am getting at.

So far as that particular reaction with omg_im_innocent_wtf goes, I am still deciding. It seems like he is meeting accusations of being overdefensive by

being

overdefensive, so the whole thing seems somewhat circular.

[Javert]

Nocmen, please answer the questions I posed to you in [172]. You may have answered a number of them before, but those answers (if any) were lost in the server move, and I would like to have them concretely in the game if possible.

<social/scum commentary>

Also, there appears to be a running trend in putting exaggeration into small tells.

Hyper

-defensiveness in particular just seems extraordinarily loaded. It reminds of a study done on whether or not people supported an "estate tax" or a "death tax". They are, of course, the same thing - a tax put on heirs of an estate - but (surprisingly enough) a significantly larger portion of the population was fine with an "estate tax", but most people were vehemently opposed to the "death tax".

I realize this isn't quite the same thing (one is using negative connotations to 'poison' a position, and the other is exaggerating an action to make it sound more negative than it really is), but I just thought it was slightly amusing to point out.

</commentary>

[Nocmen]

I make connections from my experience in previous games. Many times someone will say something that connects them to another person, whether it be town or scum. I said that to ancalagon because someone would be crazy to go and complain about being unvoted for - I sure as hell wouldnt, unless I had some crazy role that wanted me to get lynched (but I doubt there is one of those in a Normal game). Connections like that could be subliminal day talk between scum buddies, saying "your acting too much like me, if I get lynched today they may know its you for tomorrow".

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) Ancalagon
    • MeMe
    • Nocmen
  • 2) ac1983fan
    • Barromán
    • Javert
  • 1) Barromán
    • ac1983fan
  • 1) MeMe
    • Ancalagon
  • 1) Nocmen
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
  • 1) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • kilmenator
  • 3)
    not voting
    • Elias_the_thief
    • spectrumvoid
    • The Shadow
• Lynch:
  6 votes

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

unvote: vote kilmenator

[Barromán]

unvote: vote kilmenator

And the reasons are...

[kilmenator]

Being emotional and hyper-defensive is a classic scum-tell.

NO IT ISNT

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO BE WRONG BEFORE YOU LEARN? IT IS LIEK PLAYING WITH MONKEYS THAT HAVE SOMEHOW LEARNED HOW TO TYPE I SWEAR

unvote, vote spectrumvoid

.... i dont care about his role. i am not putting up with this bs any more.

You went from voting me to voting spectrum for what reason?

Yelling at people and using bad grammar (I'm pretty sure even someone who's English isn't that great knows how to capitalise I's)doesn't make you town either.

In other news, I've been grounded for playing scum.net during exam period, I should regain access this weekend.

wtf......... i m nt vting any1 but dis guy til he is ded ok?

This would be fine if you would explain why it is that you think he is scum rather than just call everyone a tard because they think you are scummy and disagree with your opinions. How old are you? Because calling people tard's seems very elementary to me...

unvote: vote kilmenator

So you are not voting anyone else until spectrum is dead, but then hop back on me? (BTW- you still did not use a colon after your vote) But then offer no reasons? Is it because no one else seems to be putting heat on SV and you need to get your vote on someone that you think can be lynched?

I also echo the sentiment that if your play style is so good why is it then that everyone thinks you are scummy? If it appears scummy to the other players in the game wouldnt logic lead you to the conclusion that you should stop acting that way?

Confirm Vote: omg im innocent wtf

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

because i wanted her to post..... im still not sure if i believe her or not but as most people at this point believe me i would really like to increase my read.

kil - i lolled at most of the rambling crap in that post, it was all fairly neutral tbh. but 2 things:

1. i never actually voted for spectrum.
2. who ELSE do you think could be scum? if i am scum, WHO are my scum partners?

i initially thought you were scum, then changed my mind. but since then you have used me as an excuse to just float by and only post about one person. im finding it harder to believe that you still think im scum, and even harder to believe that you have no opinions whatsoever on anyone else in this game.

also this is the second time you have said something like this:

"Is it because no one else seems to be putting heat on SV and you need to get your vote on someone that you think can be lynched? "

no. thats absolutely ridiculous. look at how it played out. i dont believe that a pro-town player could ever come to this conclusion.

[Ancalagon]

I said that to ancalagon because someone would be crazy to go and complain about being unvoted for

Quit trying to twist my words. I merely asked a reason of why he unvoted. I wasn't complaining.

2. who ELSE do you think could be scum? if i am scum, WHO are my scum partners?

Is this WIFOM? I haven't seen much of it before, so I'm not sure if it is. It at least doesn't seem right to me.

[MeMe]

Few things:
-- I find it hard to go forward in the knowledge that we don't have a full player list. We're getting no input from one role & nothing can be read into that fact because the player's simply not here
-- Despite the fact that omg_'s vote-hopping and abrasiveness doesn't seem to be an indicator of alignment, it is beginning to annoy me.
-- I still like my vote just fine.

[ac1983fan]

unvote:Barroman

OMG is not scum based off his playstyle.

FOS:anyone who's trying to get him lynched based on his playstyle

[ac1983fan]

unvote: vote kilmenator

And the reasons are...

your one to talk. name one tiem you've actually given a credible reason for a vote.

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) Ancalagon
    • MeMe
    • Nocmen
  • 2) ac1983fan
    • Barromán
    • Javert
  • 1) MeMe
    • Ancalagon
  • 1) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • kilmenator
  • 5)
    not voting
    • ac1983fan
    • Elias_the_thief
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • spectrumvoid
    • The Shadow
• Lynch:
  6 votes
  
• Deadline:
  MON 05/07/07 09:00 GMT

[Barromán]

Well I said it before. It seems "strange" to me, that you and Kilmentator have been very "friends" all the game. When someone has attacked you, Kilmentantor voted him or attacked him, and backwards.

Another thing is that you two seem very hasty to lych, I don't know if I said it properly... You both dind't give real reasons to lycn anyone.

As we have a week to "think", I'll try this evening or tonight to read al the game and tell yu my opinion of the game.

[ac1983fan]

I have hardly said anything about kil... name one point were we were freindly...
also, I am not being hasty to lynch, I have been trying to vote somebody who is scum... recent actions by Kil and sv are causing me to rethink my vote on you for now.

[Barromán]

ac1983fan, for me, the friendship were on "defending" the other by voting. For instance when some have attacked one of you, the other has voted the attacker. Is that kind of friehdship what I mean.

[ac1983fan]

show me posts that indicate this.

[Barromán]

111 and 119. and all this time.

[ac1983fan]

I votedhim for the same reason I voted you, voting kil w/o any good reason.
Honestly, at the moment, everybody but MeMe has said at least one scummy thing. including me. Meme hasn't posted enough to say something scummy yet.

[MeMe]

Well

that's

a pretty interesting post.

[Elias_the_thief]

AC, since you think everynoes done something scummy, could you please give us post numbers and reasons what they did is suspicious?

[ac1983fan]

I will list all the posts I find scummy. They will simply be numbered, though.
Scummy Things:
Less Scummy:
9
10
17
32
46
91
94
113
129
133
142
161
163
188
203
More Scummy:
26
34
54
59
76
97
111
181
195


... Those are all the posts I find have something scummy in them.