Mini 1568: Another Awesome Alliteration Adventure (over)

[Burning_Earth]

[T S O]

That case took me time, but it's clear you read it with your fucking shitty biased intepretations:

"I don't really want to think Cho's scum because it's too much effort. Hmm, I can misrep this, I can ignore that, I can point this out ...yep, I've done a really prejudiced attitude to a genuine case in approximately 45 seconds."

[Burning_Earth]

My reaction is correct tho

[T S O]

I mean I've actually noticed I'm getting like Thor as Town and I don't like that but my fucking God your reaction to that post was so genuinely awful it saddens me.

PEdit: No, that's the worst thing of all. You actually think it is.

[Burning_Earth]

Thor is good. Be like Thor.

I'm not scum reading you btw. I just don't think cho is scum.

[Burning_Earth]

Also, your hand waves don't make me less correct.

[T S O]

I don't really care if you're scumreading me or not, to be quite honest anyone scumreading me at this stage is doing it wrong. I'm not scumreading you either; it's not about being scum. My problem is the way you so callously dismissed a post which, yes, actually, IS good, DOES have solid basis and accusations, but more to the point, took me a fucking age and a half to write. Cases are not wrote in 5 minutes. I'm in plenty of games right now and I have people asking me to devote time to those; instead I came here, made the case, and eventually posted it. It's not even about agreeing with me - I can accept, if not understand, if you disagree with the case, but I will not fucking let someone away with dismissing it so arrogantly, when it's clear they skimmed it for a smoking gun, which never exists in Mafia, excluding PR lockdowns, decided they didn't want to consider the case, and put it down. I put work in here because I really like this playerlist and I especially like talking to Elyse; although our viewpoints are polar opposites, I can see she's read the case and can point out holes and different theories to me, and I'm willing to work because of that feedback.

You, however, so rudely dismissed it that I don't even feel as motivated about this case, this scumread, this game, as I did.

Thank you for that shining showcase of your social skills.

[Burning_Earth]

I post short to the point posts. That doesn't mean I'm fucking wrong and it doesn't mean my points are invalid.

But fine. I'll think about it for 45 minutes and then post my reaction (hint: it's likely to say the same thing, just more Wally)

[Burning_Earth]

Yeah, your reading comprehension's even worse than I thought; you're not just somewhat stupid, you're borderline illiterate.

Oh and fuck great social skills there

[toolenduso]

OK I'm ready to vote Cho. This looks much more like the townTSO I'm familiar with than the scumTSO. Also, people's defenses of Cho against TSO's case haven't convinced me as much as what I've seen from her slot (or from most of TSO's case). Also:

It's natural that your suspicion of Cho is fading; she's lurking out the pressure like a true scumfuck.

This is a very good point. This is something that I have deliberately done as scum before, and it worked like a charm.

VOTE: Cho

@Dunham: would you mind giving a serious response to my question, or was #89 as serious a response as I'm going to get?

[Burning_Earth]

Spoiler: The Votes That Made Them Unlynchable

VOTE: toolenduso

VOTE: Riptide

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MTD

That vote looked like you didn't want to step on toes and instead of commenting on another vote (I think mnemonic's Riptide vote was good), you said the first person to post is scum. It's like you're trying to keep us in RVS.

I am 100% confident that Cho, Elyse, and mnemonicdevice are Town for their votes. Accordingly, they are now Town Day 1 Unlynchables.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MTD

The first thing to note about post #27 is that Cho has inserted herself in there. This is not a Town thing to do. The Theory of Mind states that Cho understands she doesn't need to place herself in that group, primarily because, excluding her, nobody else thinks she should be in it on her current actions, but also because she knows she doesn't have to do it - it's overcompensating to appear Town. There is no need to call herself Unlynchable on page 2. Elyse and I are at odds at this one, but even she can't explain the motivation or rationale behind someone needing to do that as Town. There is none.

Something else that no-one seems to understand is the placing of mnemonicdevice in the Unlynchable section. The only post he'd had up until then was a naked vote on Riptide - not the stuff I would expect of someone I was calling Unlynchable. However, after reading through, I understand why mnemonicdevice was placed in this category.

Cho seems to have placed great faith in Elyse very quickly. It's easy to overlook, but in Elyse's #25 she compliments mnemonic's vote. This is the reason he's been placed in this exclusive section. Not any observation of Cho's, but a passing remark by Elyse.

Cho is hardsheeping a RVS read by someone with 2 posts, on page 2.

Spoiler: Reaction to Pressure

T S O

, how are we out of RVS now? Wasn't it already so earlier?

This is another example of her unwarranted iron-clad confidence in Elyse. She believes that Elyse alone brought the game out of RVS on page 2, and thus she seems to believe my comment is irrelevant. She doesn't address me calling her non-Unlynchable either, meaning she never really believed it herself. She just opportunistically put it in there and hoped people wouldn't comment. There is no Town motivation in this.

MTD

, I feel wonderfully comfortable with Elyse and mnemonicdevice's RVS votes! Of course those votes don't mean they're town, but I found them much more pleasant than anything caledfwitch or Burning_Earth said.

Cho has previously told us the votes made those three players "Unlynchable". I think we'll all agree it's a strong term.

Now, the statement has been so completely edited that it's unrecognisable from the previous. She's townreading them because they make her feel "comfortable". She the continues, telling us these votes DON'T mean they're Town (this is such an incredible regression I had to double-check it to be sure I was right), but they do mean that they were pleasant.

Let's start off by noting once more she doesn't mention herself. This again proves that she was being opportunistic, without a doubt. Secondly, WHAT? She is trying to explain that when she uses the term "Unlynchable", it is because people make her comfortable and pleasant.

Comfortable and pleasant.

These are, in the world of Cho, quite synonymous with each other.

As a result, Cho, Elyse, and mnemonicdevice are exempt from much of my suspicion for today, provided that they don't royally fuck up, of course!

Look at how much this has regressed since I pressured it.

Originally, the statement was "Town Day 1 Unlynchables". No uncertainty, no hesitance. It's an absolute stance.

After I called her out on it, the statement changed dramatically. Now, we have "Exempt from

much

of

my

suspicion for today,

provided that they don't royally fuck up

, of course!"

There are multiple qualifiers in that post which weren't there previously, and which weaken the conviction of the post. I've italicized them for easy viewing. It doesn't make sense that these have showed up now, unless Cho realised how bad it was and began to subtly backtrack. And a subtle backtrack is the hallmark of scum play.

Spoiler: Voting of TSO

T S O

, you're quite a "force of nature", as some might say! The louder your thunder, the deafer we become~

But if that's your intent, then so be it!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: T S O

I don't have to be nice to be Town.

You should explain why you're voting me, because you think I'm scum, so now you have to provide your reasoning.

T S O

, I've already explained, dear! You clearly want this game to bend to your layers of self-confidence and false scumtells, but the more you speak out, screaming "look at how loud and consequently how open I'm being; you cannot hope to do anything

but

townread me for my arrogance!", the more you detract from us being able to focus on the game and playerlist as a whole.

Cho then votes me, on the pretext that I'm attempting to manipulate the game with my self-confidence and arrogance, and that because this nefarious deed is simply unacceptable, she's voting me in order to restore order and law as they were.

This is utter hogwash, and it's clear that Cho wants a reason to vote me back, and so has concocted one out of nothing at all. There isn't any solid reason she has for voting me, and it's painfully obvious.

Aside from that bull, I think the phrase "focus on the game and playerlist as a

whole

" is incredibly incongruent with Cho's apparent mindset while posting that. She was the one who set players like Elyse aside and told us we shouldn't be considering them as lynch candidates on the basis of 2 posts, and then she lectures us with rhetoric which is meant to sound Town but just showcases further holes and lies in her posts.

@ your first point

Basically Cho exhibited strong town reads. She used the word 'unlynchable' as strong town reads shouldn't be lynched. It is, I admit, a little odd to include herself within they 'unlynchable' pile, but is it really that different to putting yourself at the very top of a T/S list?

@your second point

A: She was right, RVS was over. Don't know what you're getting at.

B: Oh come on, everyone uses strong language early game. I didn't really want to lynch egg when I voted him, I just scum read him mildly. The same with cho making out her townreads as stronger than they really were

C: see B

@your third point

I retract my statement that this point was OMGUS. In fact, cho was OMGUSing. However, that is a reasonable town tell, not a scum tell. Scum know not to OMGUS like that.

@your fourth point

Lurking is null and you know it.

[T S O]

Now that's a lot better. I'm still probably going to tear it apart, but I appreciate that.

[Riptide]

Shouldn't two heads theoretically be

less

obtuse than one?

Oh, and B_E, what's the case on us again?

-HS

[Burning_Earth]

Shouldn't two heads theoretically be

less

obtuse than one?

Oh, and B_E, what's the case on us again?

-HS

Being very cautious

read my post bro

[Dunhamganger]

@Dunham: would you mind giving a serious response to my question, or was #89 as serious a response as I'm going to get?

False dichotomy.

[toolenduso]

OK, then I'll phrase it this way: are you willing to further explain your answer to my question?

[Riptide]

BE - So basically you're voting us because we asked you about your vote?

- dice

[T S O]

OK I'm ready to vote Cho. This looks much more like the townTSO I'm familiar with than the scumTSO. Also, people's defenses of Cho against TSO's case haven't convinced me as much as what I've seen from her slot (or from most of TSO's case). Also:

It's natural that your suspicion of Cho is fading; she's lurking out the pressure like a true scumfuck.

This is a very good point. This is something that I have deliberately done as scum before, and it worked like a charm.

VOTE: Cho

@Dunham: would you mind giving a serious response to my question, or was #89 as serious a response as I'm going to get?

Excellent vote.

[Burning_Earth]

Yes but you seemed too cautious, like three votes were bad (especially when my vote was serious)

If you were trying to ascertain the meaning of my vote you would have asked about the reasons for the vote, not the position.

Also, I note that you (both heads) are reacting a reasonable amount to two votes.

[Cho]

1)

I am an alt of an active but not new player on this site.

2)

I realize that my vote on T S O may actually fall under the category of "OMGUS voting", in the sense that I did roll my eyes and say "Oh My God" and that T S O does, in fact, suck.

a)

I really want to bring myself to scumread him

i)

but I reluctantly think he is town for the blind aggression

1)

and yet I am also leaning toward scumreading him because I know he can be hyperaggressive to form a façade of towniness when he is scum.

a)

T S O is a

null

leaning

I-hope-you-are-scum

read for me.

b)

My vote is still on him because I don't like unnecessarily mean people.

i)

Being an asshole may be your idea of fun, but it's not mine.

1)

Still not sure if I'm being a hypocrite here.

ii)

And it's not like I

have

to unvote.

3)

I may have led myself to believe that my townreads on Cho, Elyse, and mnemonicdevice were more concrete than they actually deserved to be.

4)

I was lurking out the pressure like a true townfuck.

a)

I'm not sorry, because

i)

it

works

.

ii)

I don't like dealing with early game tunneling.

c)

it's also depressing to try and fight off a lynch when certain people are determined to use every new post you make as a way to further their confirmation bias.

5)

That being said, I've only skimmed the thread past page 3 and even then only really looked at posts that had my name in them.

a)

I am aware T S O posted a "case" that apparently proves that I am scum.

i)

I'm not responding because anything I say will just give him more "ammunition".

1)

There are quotations around the word ammunition because the situation more closely resembles when you encounter a dog that barks and howls whenever it hears any noise you make.

6)

This whole post is entirely true, but I will probably be voted anyway because the lurking and OMGUSing fit "textbook scum" and the Wiki is always right.

7)

I'm going to the

club

to go get

drunk

; I might return in a few

hours

, so go ahead and ask me some directed

questions

for when I get back.

[Cho]

4)
a)
i) ii) iii)

[Riptide]

1

Yes but you seemed too cautious, like three votes were bad (especially when my vote was serious)

2

If you were trying to ascertain the meaning of my vote you would have asked about the reasons for the vote, not the position.

3

Also, I note that you (both heads) are reacting a reasonable amount to two votes.

1
2 I was trying to ascertain the meaning of your vote and putting emphasis on where it was.
3

[Burning_Earth]

oh yeah well

1
2
3

[Riptide]

Yes but you seemed too cautious, like three votes were bad (especially when my vote was serious)

If you were trying to ascertain the meaning of my vote you would have asked about the reasons for the vote, not the position.

Also, I note that you (both heads) are reacting a reasonable amount to two votes.

1) Yeah, HS said he was a little paranoid about the vote in the hydra chat, but I think it was more about the reasoning and the fact that on the site we come from, that would usually be a scum tell.

3) Not really. We were just curious about the angle you were working at.

Why are you scum reading Egg?

P-edit: I don't think my partner and I are posting in sync right now. I'll work on communicating better.

[Burning_Earth]

It's only a veery light scumread based on the forcedness (good word) of his RVS

also, you guys seem to have different personalities