NY 171: An Education in Telling Jokes (Game Over!)

[Desperado]

Disclaimer: The jokes in this video have absolutely nothing to do with this game of mafia and are meant solely to amuse.

Vote Count 7.1

Elyse (1) - Nachomamma8
Ythan (1) - Green Crayons
DeathNote (1) - Marquis
Green Crayons (1) - Ythan

Not Voting (5) - DeathNote, Yates, Elyse, Bulbazak, tman2nd,

The deadline for Day 7 is Friday, April 25th, at 8:00 PM EST. With 9 people alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline in (expired on 2014-04-25 20:00:00).

[tman2nd]

I've got a big post coming soon. Hold on a bit.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Nacho

I think the scum team was incompetent before replacements from Kagami's posts. pisskop was already a big suspect of mine and mollie is the person that can read Nacho best so when she says he's scum he probably is.

[Marquis]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nacho

oh yeah i forgot about that yesterday

@ythan or whoever i was voting deathy because i don't like how he wanted to lynch me i'm pretty clearly town by this point

[Nachomamma8]

And here Kagami is yelling to her partner who to kill. I don't have a feeling one way or another if she would have thrown her partner into the mix.

Probably not: currently, it looks like she tossed two obvious town and the mason into the mix.

Nacho - why are you voting Elyse?

I'm voting Elyse currently because her reads are shallow: example of this is when she goes "Ythan looks better, GC looks worse" from the Kagami flip, presumably because Ythan was on the wagon and GC wasn't. Going into this process was nothing signifying a deeper thought process, just that shallow sort of observation that pretty much anyone with eyes could figure out. Elyse is a better player than that.

VOTE: Nacho

I think the scum team was incompetent before replacements from Kagami's posts. pisskop was already a big suspect of mine and mollie is the person that can read Nacho best so when she says he's scum he probably is.

Another example of horribly shallow reasoning: "Mollie died last night suspecting Nacho, Nacho must be scum!".
I don't see what the incompetent scumteam point adds to Elyse's point here, either.

[Nachomamma8]

And here Kagami is yelling to her partner who to kill. I don't have a feeling one way or another if she would have thrown her partner into the mix.

Probably not: currently, it looks like she tossed two obvious town and the mason into the mix.

Nacho - why are you voting Elyse?

I'm voting Elyse currently because her reads are shallow: example of this is when she goes "Ythan looks better, GC looks worse" from the Kagami flip, presumably because Ythan was on the wagon and GC wasn't. Going into this process was nothing signifying a deeper thought process, just that shallow sort of observation that pretty much anyone with eyes could figure out. Elyse is a better player than that.

VOTE: Nacho

I think the scum team was incompetent before replacements from Kagami's posts. pisskop was already a big suspect of mine and mollie is the person that can read Nacho best so when she says he's scum he probably is.

Another example of horribly shallow reasoning: "Mollie died last night suspecting Nacho, Nacho must be scum!".
I don't see what the incompetent scumteam point adds to Elyse's point here, either.

[DeathNote]

Sorry... here. Catch up day.

[DeathNote]

Another example of horribly shallow reasoning: "Mollie died last night suspecting Nacho, Nacho must be scum!".
I don't see what the incompetent scumteam point adds to Elyse's point here, either.

So you are saying Mollie was killed to frame you? What about this post then?

Probably not: currently, it looks like she tossed two obvious town and the mason into the mix.

It looks as if Kag really was yelling at scum team to kill one of those three but you disagree saying the above. So why kill Mollie?

[DeathNote]

@Marquis- You finally voted me. What gives?

[DeathNote]

Vote: Bulbazak

This slot needs to die.

[tman2nd]

On Ythan v. GC

Before the Ythan-GC debate

Ythan enters into the game rather late because he apparently didn’t get a PM telling him that the game had started. He immediately votes Zekrom which some people didn’t like. At least, I didn’t. I think there were some others. I thought it was too quick for having just come into the game. That said, it isn’t as bad since Zekrom turned out to be scum.

Next, he starts his persuit of a Fish lynch. I find his interactions with Fish reminiscent of his current interactions with GC. He uses lots of insults and calling his opponents dumb. During this time, GC first mentions Ythan.

Ythan's fake dayvig strikes me as scummy.

Speaking of the dayvig thing, I never really quite understood what that was about. Could someone explain it?

As the day comes to a close, a sthar wagon gathers. I do like Ythan’s defense of sthar here. It doesn’t give him town points though, because the alternate wagon he’s pushing is also town. At this point, we come to the confrontation between GC and Ythan.

Round 1! A Suitable Alternative

At this point, Ythan is pushing a Fish lynch, but the sthar wagon is picking up steam. That is when Ythan posts this:

Full disclosure Sthar does give me the heebie jeebies but we hAVE FORMERFISH TO FRY

He later says this:

Vote obvious scum, provide a suitable alternative, or eat rope.

I’d say that both posts are perfectly fine, even when put together. However GC makes this post:

provide a suitable alternative

Full disclosure Sthar does give me the heebie jeebies

Found one.

I see what GC is trying to say here. He’s saying that according to Ythan’s own words, sthar could be scum, so GC is offering that as an alternative. Ythan’s reply doesn’t make much sense to me.

provide a suitable alternative

Full disclosure Sthar does give me the heebie jeebies

Found one.

How does it feel to know that you have to cut part of a post out when you reply in order for you response to fit? Does it feel bad? It should.

I don’t see how GC’s post was taking Ythan’s words out of context. Indeed, GC replies in 1058 by showing the full quotes while still making the same point. He suggests that maybe Ythan was misinterpreting his post to imply Ythan himself is a suitable alternative. Ythan follows up with these posts:

A suitable alternative is not one that is not as good. GC u r dumb.

Literally GC walled to make the point that another character "gave me the heebie jeebies" and that I should lynch them instead of scum. And has done shit else lately.

Here, he levies some insults which is something I don’t like, but can be attributed to playstyle, and basically says that he doesn’t think sthar is a suitable alternative. What’s interesting is that he then goes on to state that Zekrom and sthar are scum buddies and that he wants to lynch the one with more votes. What happened to sthar not being a suitable alternative? He gives no indication of why he made this shift. He goes on to vote sthar who does have more votes between the two.

About here, I had a gut scum read of Ythan that I voiced.

There is some more squabbling about the suitable lynch thing. The impression I get is that Ythan is tired of discussing it and just wants to stop while GC wants to explain himself. It looks like a bunch of villager vs. villager. Both sides could have been clearer.

One thing from day 1 that I like from Ythan is how he seemed to really want a Zekrom lynch.

Intermision

Day 2, the Zekrom lynch happens. GC mentions that he thinks Ythan is scummy. Not much else of note.

Day 3, GC votes Ythan. Ythan votes Serrapaladin. Then, he disappears for a couple days. He comes back for this sequence of posts.

bangingmmyheadonmydesk.gif

The mighty Ythan rises from the depths of his icy slumber. The liquid currents break against his hardened skin, but he feels nothing. Deep within that pit at his core, that blackened maw of nothingness, he has finally felt a calling. An imperative. He must go forth, and so he does. Finally, at long last, rays of light pierce through the thick black. Much later, he can actually see what he can only imagine is sky situated above the water's surface: a brilliant blend and swirl of reds and oranges. Some unknown language stirs in the depths of his memory, and he knows the idea of sunset. Eventually, his body breaks the surface of the water, and he finds himself naked and cold on the shore. He has arrived, and that imperative demands compliance.

bangingmmyheadonmydesk.gif

Sated, that internal call dies. The mighty Ythan feels release, and the energy quickly drains from his figure. The deed done, he returns to the wordless sea, a much more wearied creature than he arrived.

Not posting is better than posting garbage.

Not posting is better than posting garbage.

You say as you post garbage...

Excuse me but you're tman2nd. Don't lose perspective.

After which, he disappears for the next couple days. There is a quote of his own that I think could be used against him here.

But seriously

GC

Ythan did you just pop by to say that?

When he comes back again, he votes Nikanor. Soon after, the Poro lead Mala wagon forms. I eventually join that, but I point out how terrible Ythan’s posting has been. I also ask him about his Nikanor vote. He basically responds with “I’m town” and ignores me.

Of note is this post which, as I said, captured my reads at the time pretty well.

Day 4, serra gets lynched. Ythan was part of that wagon.

Day 5 is where the feud between Ythan and GC really takes off.

Round 2

This is the hardest part to sort out.

The problem is GC does have some valid points. Ythan does have a terrible approach to responding to criticism. The problem is GC starts imagining things that aren’t there like he thinks he sees Ythan backing of from a scumread of GC which he didn’t.

At one point, Ythan makes this post:

which have been attributed as being scumplay for both players.

Way to take a stand gc.

They fight over this, but Ythan doesn’t really explain what he meant here.

Now we’re here today. I think GC should back off of Ythan for today, and search for a different scum for now. It might be helpful to reread Ythan’s ISO and consider where you may have misunderstood him. Ythan needs to stop with the insulting his opponent routine that seems to pop up whenever you get criticized the slightest bit. Even with my reading of Ythan’s ISO I still not quite sure where to place him. I knowing more about your meta might help. Does anyone here know his meta? I want to know how much is playstyle and how much might be actual scumminess.

[tman2nd]

GC's unsurety over is his previous Elyse townread strikes me as town. I still townread Elyse pretty strongly, though.

[tman2nd]

Oh, gosh.
VOTE: Bulbazack

[Marquis]

I had a fairly strong townread on RC, and probably based on that I don't want to lynch Bulba

[tman2nd]

I had a scum read on RC, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

[Elyse]

I'm voting Elyse currently because her reads are shallow: example of this is when she goes "Ythan looks better, GC looks worse" from the Kagami flip, presumably because Ythan was on the wagon and GC wasn't. Going into this process was nothing signifying a deeper thought process, just that shallow sort of observation that pretty much anyone with eyes could figure out. Elyse is a better player than that.

Actually it's because GC started an argument with Ythan and tried to get people to wagon him instead of Kagami. He could be town, but I'm saying Kagami's flip makes it seem less likely Ythan is scum and GC is town, which is what I was thinking previously.

VOTE: Nacho

I think the scum team was incompetent before replacements from Kagami's posts. pisskop was already a big suspect of mine and mollie is the person that can read Nacho best so when she says he's scum he probably is.

Another example of horribly shallow reasoning: "Mollie died last night suspecting Nacho, Nacho must be scum!".
I don't see what the incompetent scumteam point adds to Elyse's point here, either.

That's not what I said though?
I said mollie can read you well and I trust her read on you. Mollie was dying last night regardless of her read on you. She crusaded to lynch a scum slot all day and was pretty obvtown about it.

I'm saying that pisskop was incompetent and fits into Kagami's description of the scumteam's actions.

[DeathNote]

Marq... seriously why don't you ever explain your reads?

[Green Crayons]

Taking a step back, I do realize that my vote on Ythan now appears more reactionary than the result of scum hunting. (tman's effortpost putting some things into perspective.) But I stand by my initial reactions to his play -- which I'm not keen on attributing to playstyle because of the slew derogatory adjectives I would attach to that style -- and I'm happy to continue voting Ythan until I'm more comfortable with my vote going elsewhere.

-----

I had a fairly strong townread on RC, and probably based on that I don't want to lynch Bulba

I agree with this. I have not changed my opinion since:

18. RadiantCowbells: leaning town. He's been pretty quiet with the occasional not particularly helpful tidbit, so I guess possible lurker scum, but he doesn't really strike me that way.

I've had no real need to change my opinion, mainly because RC (and now his replacement) have been pretty much a nonentity. I mean, yes, scum do this too (e.g., EPM/NS), but RC always struck me as distant town what with apparently having a bad reputation or something.

[Green Crayons]

And here Kagami is yelling to her partner who to kill. I don't have a feeling one way or another if she would have thrown her partner into the mix.

Probably not: currently, it looks like she tossed two obvious town and the mason into the mix.

I wrote a response to this and then realized that your post might meant something else than my initial take away. To what part of my post are you referring to when you say "probably not?"

[Bulbazak]

Bulbazak's Catchup Reads

Town

DeathNote:

He's doing a lot more scumhunting than anyone, including himself, gives him credit for. He's been actively engaged and trying to find scum. I wish he wasn't so tunnel-visioned sometimes with wanting the lynches done quickly, but I can also understand his reasoning. I think he's going to become more important in the process of finding scum as the game continues, and I won't be lynching him. Ever.

Green Crayons:

He has been constantly scumhunting, and he's done some genuine analysis when looking for scum. His thought process is very easy to understand, and I really don't see the scum motivation here. Not only that, but he caught onto Ythan pretty quickly, so he deserves major props there. He's probably one of the strongest scumhunters we have in the game.

Marquis:

Come on. There's no way a player like Marquis actively pursues and busses 3 of his buddies. Marquis is about as obv. town as you can get.

Null/Town

Tman2nd:

I went back and forth on this slot a lot during my readthrough. In fact, I had him as a scum read until about d5. However, his play doesn't make sense as scum, and especially in the later days, I saw clear instances of him trying to figure the game out. He's really stepped it up and made his alignment obvious. Plus, he really doesn't fit in with my other scum reads. I'm reserving a bit of caution on him, but I think everything should be sorted out with some live play.

Elyse:

I like how she's been actively scumhunting and trying to figure out the game. She was an early town read for me. However, her more recent play has bumped her out of the strong town section. I would like to sort her live.

Nachomamma8:

I want to believe town, mainly because I have a hard time thinking he'd replace into a scum slot with 2 buddies down, and then bus another one, especially when Kagami could have turned that slot around. However, this is Nacho, and I don't want to rush into a town read prematurely. I should have him sorted by the end of the day.

Scum

Ythan:

GC is right. Ythan is not really participating in the game. Seriously, go look at his ISO. It's utterly devoid of content, instead being a series of pushes, with the focus being on speed rather than finding scum. I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that he would pursue a bus on Zekrom (who was a weak link) or any of his partners if it meant he could coast to the end (check out his sig). And GC is right that Ythan has been using intimidation tactics to defeat any resistance or discredit anyone who suspects him. He's using strength as a smoke screen, and it has been working all game.

Yates:

Yates's play has been bothering me. He's been focusing on issues that the average town player would know better than to focus on. He focused on Nikanor's fake day guilty. Why? Anyone who has played any sort of mafia knows that was fake. Why push it and ask if it was serious? Same thing with Marquis's fake claim in RVS. That's obviously fake, but Yates pushed it as something serious to get Marquis lynched. He focused on my slot during the last day phase, suddenly expecting me to read a 100+ page game in under a week. Essentially, Yates has been trying to find little things to force a lynch on. He's not actually trying to scum hunt, just to look like. But it's the fake soft claim that nails him. Did anyone else catch him softing mason on d4? I will admit, that gave me pause. Until I went back through the ISOs. It's true that Poro never really mentions him, but Yates actually did something that no mason partner would ever do: He FoS'd Poro early in the game. How could Yates be Poro's mason partner if he's trying to say Poro is scum? That is ludicrous. And watch him say he never was trying to claim that, even though he was trying to lynch Marquis on the basis of a fake mason claim and constantly said that he would never be lynched and we would be sorry if we did lynch him, all of which points to him being mason. And let's not forget all those times he went mason fishing beforehand.

Vote Yates

He needs to die.

Also, this is to remind the mod that I have limited access until April 17th.

[Marquis]

i haven't been reading as closely as i thought...

UNVOTE:

ugh. the state of the game suggests 2 scum left, right? i had this weird idea earlier that one of them is a traitor, but i can't exactly remember why; maybe it had to do with not enough relational tells or something like that.

regardless after the zekrom push and late-lynch, i've mostly just been sheeping mollie-super-town-read on things and now that she's dead, i'm finding it hard to pick a new accurate-sounding town player to anchor myself and my reads to. i'll probably do limited isos later but for now, consider these my tentative reads in no particular order:

town

marquis

null/scum

DeathNote
Nachomamma8
Yates
pirate mollie
Elyse
Ythan
Bulbazak
tman2nd
Green Canyons

(...so you can see why i'm all over the place today)

[tman2nd]

Taking a step back, I do realize that my vote on Ythan now appears more reactionary than the result of scum hunting. (tman's effortpost putting some things into perspective.) But I stand by my initial reactions to his play -- which I'm not keen on attributing to playstyle because of the slew derogatory adjectives I would attach to that style -- and I'm happy to continue voting Ythan until I'm more comfortable with my vote going elsewhere.

It's nice to see that that post helped you. However, now that I've had some time to think, and with the help of Bulbazack's post, I can definitely see how Ythan has made little contribution despite all the noise he makes. I might end up voting him today.

I had a fairly strong townread on RC, and probably based on that I don't want to lynch Bulba

I agree with this. I have not changed my opinion since:

18. RadiantCowbells: leaning town. He's been pretty quiet with the occasional not particularly helpful tidbit, so I guess possible lurker scum, but he doesn't really strike me that way.

I've had no real need to change my opinion, mainly because RC (and now his replacement) have been pretty much a nonentity. I mean, yes, scum do this too (e.g., EPM/NS), but RC always struck me as distant town what with apparently having a bad reputation or something.

Ok, I see what you're saying. And with this next post,

Bulbazak's Catchup Reads

Town

DeathNote:

He's doing a lot more scumhunting than anyone, including himself, gives him credit for. He's been actively engaged and trying to find scum. I wish he wasn't so tunnel-visioned sometimes with wanting the lynches done quickly, but I can also understand his reasoning. I think he's going to become more important in the process of finding scum as the game continues, and I won't be lynching him. Ever.

Green Crayons:

He has been constantly scumhunting, and he's done some genuine analysis when looking for scum. His thought process is very easy to understand, and I really don't see the scum motivation here. Not only that, but he caught onto Ythan pretty quickly, so he deserves major props there. He's probably one of the strongest scumhunters we have in the game.

Marquis:

Come on. There's no way a player like Marquis actively pursues and busses 3 of his buddies. Marquis is about as obv. town as you can get.

Null/Town

Tman2nd:

I went back and forth on this slot a lot during my readthrough. In fact, I had him as a scum read until about d5. However, his play doesn't make sense as scum, and especially in the later days, I saw clear instances of him trying to figure the game out. He's really stepped it up and made his alignment obvious. Plus, he really doesn't fit in with my other scum reads. I'm reserving a bit of caution on him, but I think everything should be sorted out with some live play.

Elyse:

I like how she's been actively scumhunting and trying to figure out the game. She was an early town read for me. However, her more recent play has bumped her out of the strong town section. I would like to sort her live.

Nachomamma8:

I want to believe town, mainly because I have a hard time thinking he'd replace into a scum slot with 2 buddies down, and then bus another one, especially when Kagami could have turned that slot around. However, this is Nacho, and I don't want to rush into a town read prematurely. I should have him sorted by the end of the day.

Scum

Ythan:

GC is right. Ythan is not really participating in the game. Seriously, go look at his ISO. It's utterly devoid of content, instead being a series of pushes, with the focus being on speed rather than finding scum. I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that he would pursue a bus on Zekrom (who was a weak link) or any of his partners if it meant he could coast to the end (check out his sig). And GC is right that Ythan has been using intimidation tactics to defeat any resistance or discredit anyone who suspects him. He's using strength as a smoke screen, and it has been working all game.

Yates:

Yates's play has been bothering me. He's been focusing on issues that the average town player would know better than to focus on. He focused on Nikanor's fake day guilty. Why? Anyone who has played any sort of mafia knows that was fake. Why push it and ask if it was serious? Same thing with Marquis's fake claim in RVS. That's obviously fake, but Yates pushed it as something serious to get Marquis lynched. He focused on my slot during the last day phase, suddenly expecting me to read a 100+ page game in under a week. Essentially, Yates has been trying to find little things to force a lynch on. He's not actually trying to scum hunt, just to look like. But it's the fake soft claim that nails him. Did anyone else catch him softing mason on d4? I will admit, that gave me pause. Until I went back through the ISOs. It's true that Poro never really mentions him, but Yates actually did something that no mason partner would ever do: He FoS'd Poro early in the game. How could Yates be Poro's mason partner if he's trying to say Poro is scum? That is ludicrous. And watch him say he never was trying to claim that, even though he was trying to lynch Marquis on the basis of a fake mason claim and constantly said that he would never be lynched and we would be sorry if we did lynch him, all of which points to him being mason. And let's not forget all those times he went mason fishing beforehand.

Vote Yates

He needs to die.

Also, this is to remind the mod that I have limited access until April 17th.

Yeah, I'm not voting him today.
UNVOTE:

You've got some good points about Yates. I'll have to take a closer look at him.

I'll decide where I want vote to be now, tomorrow.

---------------------------------------

As a little observation, one thing I noticed as I read through Ythan's ISO is that with Ythan's frequent avatar changes, I would often have forgotten some of my previous reactions to him. My initial gut scum read, my annoyance with him day 3, and my reactions to his squabble with GC yesterday, all arose independently.

[DeathNote]

i haven't been reading as closely as i thought...

UNVOTE:

ugh. the state of the game suggests 2 scum left, right? i had this weird idea earlier that one of them is a traitor, but i can't exactly remember why; maybe it had to do with not enough relational tells or something like that.

regardless after the zekrom push and late-lynch, i've mostly just been sheeping mollie-super-town-read on things and now that she's dead, i'm finding it hard to pick a new accurate-sounding town player to anchor myself and my reads to. i'll probably do limited isos later but for now, consider these my tentative reads in no particular order:

town

marquis

null/scum

DeathNote
Nachomamma8
Yates
pirate mollie
Elyse
Ythan
Bulbazak
tman2nd
Green Canyons

(...so you can see why i'm all over the place today)

God you are just like... the biggest scum piece of crap I have seen this game.... It really really really bothers me and the only reason I have tunnel voted you into the ground is because there are SOOOOooooo many people this game that are bad and worthy of a lynch.

Does no one else read this post and see nothing of relevant? Like, what in this post comes from a town perspective?

There is set-up speculation, blatant sheeping (and all mollie?), a pointless list (Yeah she is being facetious, I get it), and then to top it all off...

(...so you can see why i'm all over the place today)

No I can't see why you are all over the place. And the fact that you are shrugging off your lack of reasoning with this crap answer is what makes me mad.

Unvote
Vote: Marq

The worst part is probably just the fact that Marq plays this way. I don't know if this is scum play or just her being deliberately anti-town. It is the same thing with RC... always plays the same way and always gets lynched for it. I really do think RC/bulz might have been town... probably is town but I also don't want to see that slot in lylo because... not lynching someone on meta is ridiculous.

[Marquis]

lol

gnight everyone

[DeathNote]

Yates is a great vote too. I saw his fluff posting back when he was pressuring a mason claim out of Marq. I was willing to lynch him then, I am willing to lynch him now.

I guess it would be easier to say who I don't want to kill at this point but that list is probably just GC.....

@Ythan- Are you scum? Seriously, just if you are town, clear you name now. I don't want this to go out of proportion. I considered you town just as I considered UT town and honestly... at this point UT would probably have pressure on him too.