Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Mgm]

Great! We also lost the post in which I said I'd be away for a while. I didn't check the thread after that in much detail, so I have no idea what was posted. Upside, there's very little to catch up with...

[Mr Stoofer]

New Page Vote Count (still unchanged)

Cogito Ergo Sum: 3 (Nightfall Thesp MBL)
Zindaras: 2 (Patrick Glork)
Patrick: 1 (Mgm)
Nightfall: 1 (Ether)

Not voting: Zindaras CES

Looking for

5

votes for a lynch!

[Nightfall]

This is the only game that I hate that we lost something in.
Someone (who I forget) made a really scummy post agreeing with Ether...

In response to Pat.
1. Yes I thought he was under contributing. I think Fritz usually posts a little more often in other games and although he acts just as snippy he seems to have more substance behind his accusations.

2. After I brought up his lack of posting, I started to see what I thought were mason tells between Fritz and Glork so I even tried to steer suspicion away from them.

I agree with Adele's post 698.
In contrast to my more recent posts, I must say that I am now finding Glork and Fritz less likely to be scum. With that being said, I don't entire agree with their views.

Thinking they could be Masons I asked Fritz and Glork a few things to see their thoughts

Fritz, if Thesp is not the play today, do you see him as the play for a day soon to come? Or is he more on your pro town list?

One last thing, Glork, how do you stand in regards to CES, Pat, Zind, and Lee?

[Mgm]

This is the only game that I hate that we lost something in.

Yes, very annoying. I made a mental note to respond to post 1280, but I can't remember what it said and it's gone now...

[Thesp]

Crud. Back, and it looks like a number of my longer posts are missing.

[Glork]

Pretty sure I remember saying "HAY ZINDIE, POST OR DIE" and "I like Ether's attack on Nightfall."

I'd be cool lynching either right now.

[Thesp]

Pretty sure I remember saying "HAY ZINDIE, POST OR DIE" and "I like Ether's attack on Nightfall."

I'd be cool lynching either right now.

Yeah, that sounds right. CES also took meaningless potshots at me for unknown reasons, if I recall correctly.

[Glork]

Something like that.

I'm guessing our last two scums are likely among {Zindaras, CES, Nightfall}.

[Patrick]

Zindaras hasn't said or done anything to change my mind.

[Mgm]

Zindaras hasn't said or done anything to change my mind.

How convenient. He probably said something, but with all those posts missing it's impossible to check.

I believe at least 1 scum is in the group of people who aren't being looked at (MBL, Glork, Patrick). So I'm not really all that surprised they're the ones fuelling the top 2 wagons. I am wondering why no one is looking at them.

[Patrick]

How convenient. He probably said something, but with all those posts missing it's impossible to check.

There is nothing convenient about it. The only thing he posted that was lost was a brief post which contained his gut feelings on everyone. He didn't advance the analysis that he'd promised. Therefore, he hasn't done anything to change my opinion.

I believe at least 1 scum is in the group of people who aren't being looked at (MBL, Glork, Patrick). So I'm not really all that surprised they're the ones fuelling the top 2 wagons. I am wondering why no one is looking at them.

I don't see the Zindaras wagon as a particularly easy or convenient one. I don't remember any point where it has really taken off. I also think there is a strong case against him.

[Ether]

We know my position, I think: I'd be okay with a Zindilynch and oppose a CESlynch. A Nightfalllynch would be best because he's excuseless scum and we could then shut up about CES. (

Right...?

) Also, Mgm, this concept of "looking at Nightfall" is still hip and new for those of us who aren't Ether.

Anyway--I was typing what I remembered and then I was decabled again. Made this awesome sig-banner instead of doing my work, then eventually did the work anyway. Hi. Feel free to point out inaccuracies. Here we go.

Zindie posted his gut feelings. Um, CES confusing/townish/notopportunistic. No memory of Ether, but townish from memory. (:P No, I do understand.) Glork confusing/scummish. Mgm controversial/townish. MBL confusing/townish/isheaskingenoughquestions? Nightfall (*shrug*). I have no memory of what he said about Patrick (sorry). Thesp scum, with no "-ish" whatsoever. I kind of expect Zindie to lurkerhunt more, though that's more from his Discussion posts: I'll admit that I've only seen that in one game of his and it isn't over yet.

Thesp was particularly interested in Zindaras's comments on CES and MBL. He felt the notopportunistic part on CES had an "or

else

" edge (implying no CES/Zindaras).

CES told Thesp to be lenient on Zindaras; his posts weren't that bad.

I believe that this is the 1280 Mgm is talking about. Ether responded to Mgm's question about MBL. (Putting onself through an awkward let's-

not

-out-the-cop moment when one controls the nightkills doesn't sound likely, but did MBL seriously think Glork was a cop? MBL should give take on Glork's pushes on Thesp in semidefense of Channel in the early parts of the PBP.)

Still on probably1280, Ether brought up eight reasons of awesomeness for why you should all vote for Nightfall (and certainly not CES). You should still do so.

Glork asked CES his opinion of Nightfall. CES took a look, sort of agreed with Ether (Nightfall/Channel interactions), sort of didn't (townish PBPs). Asked Nightfall why he was voting him; said he might return the favor.

Thesp, ignoring the Nightfall business, yelled at CES for the Zindie defense.

Nightfall gave an awful irrelevant response to one point. He did not answer CES.

Glork clarified that the case on Nightfall was a Good Thing and asked Nightfall for elaboration on his CES-vote. Patrick agreed (clarifying that this was the first of Ether's attacks on Nightfall that he liked. I have my own trademark interjection for this sort of comment: "pfeh.").

Stoofer made a vote count. I believe it was identical to the one we still have; the only vote on Nightfallscum was still Ether. Shame on you.

'Scum went boom.

Ether then had a dream where she was poor and homeless and thirsty and all that. She was at a water fountain at a fast food place, but the water tasted funny. It turns out it wasn't water at all, but the corrupted form of an energy drink superheroes needed to keep their powers up. Nightfall was the supervillain who corrupted it. Just saying.

---

Also, here are the eight points for those of you who didn't see them the first time around.

All that did was bring up a huge number of WIFOM issues which truely could go either way.

-He reprimands AndrewS for something he himself admits is null. (I'm aware that this wasn't his only attack on AndrewS; it's still a superfluous way to discredit him.)

-My Day 1 vote on him was a misconception, but I still contend that the PBPs were overhyped.

On the topic of Fritz I must ask, why of all the talk about how I am "lurking" or "not bothering to post" and of how CDB is "attempting to make it look like he is contributing" why isn't more attention being given to the fact that Fritz too has contributed very little?

-(Glork's tell.)
(This is what Patrick responded to.)

-Also in 595, Nightfall adds a summary at the end of his Channel PBP--this format made it the odd one out. It gives him room to join a Channellynch if he feels like it, with a lot of thick disclaimers and doubt and exception.

Well thank you for clearing that up yesterday so that someone else could move on it... or wait...that never happend? oh yeah...

Although I was not a big fan of a possible Thesp lynch

I dont believe that I ever said I was cool with a no-lynch

"That was

so

premeditated. Ether should have announced that she wouldn't hammer Thesp so someone else could do it. By the way, I wouldn't have actually supported a Thesplynch (although I didn't defend him while he was in trouble)."
(This was the one point Nightfall mentioned, incidentally. He

just

mumbled something about my nonhammer implying Ether/Thesp, which he again didn't mention at the time.)

-Nothing on Channel on Day 3 except that he should post.

-Oh, and a question fishing for the chance to make an argument from fallacy.

-His attacks on CES started yesterday, actually--as Channel sank. If you are voting CES, you shouldn't be.

[Mgm]

Does anyone have a copy of the missing posts?

[Glork]

I think we should lynch Nightfall and ask for an overnight modkill on Zindaras. Who's with me? <.<

[Mgm]

Why modkill Zindaras? From his profile it appears Zindy has a game of his own to get back on its feet post-crash. He can't do both games at the same time.

Thesp, of MBL, Glork and Patrick, who do you find most scummy?

[Mr Stoofer]

Zindaras is having genuine connection issues -- he really can't post at the moment. (I've even started this thread in the Help! forum.)

[Patrick]

That's fair enough Stoofybaby.

Thesp, of MBL, Glork and Patrick, who do you find most scummy?

I like the way you phrase this question

I'm starting to think Mgm may actually just be a misguided townie rather than scum godfather, though i'm slightly curious about his question to Thesp there.

I could see Nightfall/Zindybuns, not so much Nightfall/CES. I'm not sold on CES being town, but still don't like the wagon on him, as it felt almost too easy to be true. The fact that Zindaras seems so scummy but never seems to get a wagon on him is encouraging actually. Although this may be too much general theory, I believe that generally wagons on town will go faster, because there's usually scum out there willing to push it along when they sense an oppotunity, whereas wagons on scum will be more sticky, because they will not have that same propulsion, and may have one or two people subtly trying to divert attention from them. I feel this applies to the AndrewS/CDB wagons, where the first one literally skyrocketed, but the CDB one not so much. The CES wagon seems to have been more successful than the Zindy one, despite the fact CES seems the less scummy of the two. I also noted the funny similarity between the attacks on CDB and the current one on Nightfall -- both of them were initially pushed by one person alone, and were largely ignored up until a certain point. I'm not sure how much this means, but it's just something I noted.

I like Ether's last post, and still think Thesp and Glork are town, and to a lesser extent MrBuddyLee.

[Thesp]

Thesp, of MBL, Glork and Patrick, who do you find most scummy?

Good question. I'm sold on Glork being town, and while I had lingering doubts on Patrick's townness, they've largely subsided. I have strong concerns about MrBuddyLee after a brief re-read, but CES and Zindaras are still ahead of all of that list combined. I could go along with the Nightfall lynch as well, it seems well founded. Still happiest with a CES lynch, would settle for a Zindaras or Nightfall, I suppose.

[Glork]

I think I could see Nightfall/MBL, actually. I need to go re-read MBL to see how feasable that actually is.

I could still see Zindie/CES, Nightfall/CES, or Nightfall/Zindie, too. Considering moving my vote to Nightfall, but I really, really, *REALLY* think that we need to hear back from Zindaras soon.

[Glork]

Actually, yeah, MBL/Nightfall is looking really good right now. After isolating MBL's posts, he really never says much against Nightfall other than "thin contribution" early on. He defends Nightfall against Ether, saying that Nightfall's analysis is more substantial than that of "any other player" in the very same paragraph where he passively notes that Nightfall failed to analyze anyone between MGM and Zindaras, alphabetically. He later posits that Ether is scum for her stance against Nightfall. It seems to me that MBL has commented more readily on just about every other player, and he's asked critical questions of other player's posts/analyses. The extent of his questioning Nightfall is in Post 706 where he more voices disagreement than a critical question of Nightfall's posting habits. I don't really buy his "I was trying to obfuscate the situation because I thought you were being too obvious as a Cop" attitude. It doesn't seem like something that makes any sense to me, and it looks like a really weak explanation of why he defended CDB early on like that. His defense is entirely contingent upon us believing that he's a pro-town palyer who decided (even after calling CDB's wagon "suspiciously scum-driven") that I was the Cop. Unfortunately, none of us can take that on face-value. I find it just as likely that MBL *is* scum and that he knew CDB was doomed to failure. I think that once I dropped the cop-hints, he went back and looked at my posts and realized why I all of a sudden trusted Fritzler. And that's why I think Fritz was nightkilled instead of me.

[Patrick]

MBL and Nightfall. Hmm. I have vaguely considered it, I remember MBL defending Nightfall quite alot against Ether's attacks, and attacking Ether over it; not sure whether he'd provide such a defence for a scumbuddy like that when Nightfall wasn't in any great danger anyway. But as with Glork, I'd have to reread MBL to check my facts there. I can see more room for MBL to be scum than either Glork or Thesp, but I still lean town. Might get a chance to do the read tonight if I finish my essay. On another note, I'm happy to see Zindaras has solved his connection problems.

[Mgm]

I'm not happy with the CES wagon at all. It fueled along too smoothly and while he's acting nonsensical in pushing for Thesp as GF, I don't believe he's scum. And while Zindaras could be scum, there's really nothing much pushing me to believe that. What Glork said is pretty much true. I'm not willing to believe MBL at face value when he's talking about the whole Glork/Fritzler cop thing. It sounds like he's trying to talk his way out of it.

Let's see if we can get a better bandwagon going.

Unvote: Patrick; Vote: MBL

(Yes, that is a blatant attempt to derail some bandwagons. I want some of my suspects pushed for a change.)

[Thesp]

What do you think about Nightfall?

[Mr Stoofer]

I think that a month is long enough for Day 4, don't you agree?

Deadline:

Friday 4th May 9.30am BST

Any objections to be sent to me by PM. If I get 5 objections (being the number needed for a lynch) I'll rescind/extend the deadline.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Nightfall

Definitely more confident in Nightfall than in MBL... I'm willing to put MBL off until we learn Nightfall's alignment. But I'm glad that I've sparked some additional interest. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Nightfall is today's play, and that the fallout from his lynch will really help steer us from here on out.