Board Games Mafia -- Game Over!

[Ectomancer]

Ecto, if you are sane, it's highly doubtful Twito is a godfather. RR basically telegraphed who his night choice was going to be; it would make little sense for scum to roleblock a cop who was known to be investigating an investigation immune godfather.

Im sorry, I did think of that, and forgot to include it in my list of possibilities. Given the town roles, I dont think that makes it any

less

likely that a Godfather role exists however.

[Ectomancer]

I almost forgot. No one addressed the Vig vs SK issue. Is it assumed we have an SK, or does someone have a real reason to think we might have a Vig?

[Nightfall]

Cranium is kind of a guessing / abilities testing game, its a mixture of chirades, trivia, problem solving, challenges, guessing, etc.

[Glork]

Day Three: The Second Vote Count:

Kison 4 (IH, Jalyn, DragonsofSummer, Ectomancer)
Twito 1 (Kison)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Zindaras]

Why do you say that innocence is not guaranteed? Is it because the role does not specify that IH is innocent, or because the role specifically states that "your partner may or may not be innocent"?

My role PM states that I am unaware of IH's alignment (though in a somewhat stronger, more weasel wordish manner).

Zindy, I don't get why you claimed nor do I get why you would die the following night.

Let's say it's true, eh? The Eurogames are scum and the Americagames are town. Then I've got a known scumbag in my hand and IH knows it. So I'd have to be killed as quickly as possible.

Ecto, if you are sane, it's highly doubtful Twito is a godfather. RR basically telegraphed who his night choice was going to be; it would make little sense for scum to roleblock a cop who was known to be investigating an investigation immune godfather.

Ooh, that's a smart one.

I think Nightfall could very well be scum.

[Kison]

Why do you say that innocence is not guaranteed? Is it because the role does not specify that IH is innocent, or because the role specifically states that "your partner may or may not be innocent"?

My role PM states that I am unaware of IH's alignment (though in a somewhat stronger, more weasel wordish manner).

Zindy, I don't get why you claimed nor do I get why you would die the following night.

Let's say it's true, eh? The Eurogames are scum and the Americagames are town. Then I've got a known scumbag in my hand and IH knows it. So I'd have to be killed as quickly as possible.

That's very interesting. Had your role not hinted at your unawarance of IH's alignment, I'd be more inclined to believe he was town, but with the Euro game VS American game theme speculation, and that hint, that may very well be the case.

If IH is scum, that would explain this :

I'm pretty sure Glork is an experienced enough mod to not put in a breaking strategy for roles, and trying to out guess him is retarded.

Unfortunately, with our doc gone, it becomes harder to test our cop's sanity. However, I'd be more inclined to believe that Ectomancer is the insane cop if IH turned out to be scum, mainly because IH pushed for us to

1) believe that one of our cops is insane and
2) That Cranium, the doc who got no results, is the insane cop

Zindaras

- As Masons, have you and IH had any conversations we should know about?

[Ectomancer]

Given a choice between Trivial Pursuit, which is a straight up question and answer game, and Cranium that has been described as more of a figure it out type game, I would say Trivial Pursuit is more likely to be sane, while Cranium you couldnt be sure of the answers given.

[Zindaras]

If IH is scum, that would explain this :

I'm pretty sure Glork is an experienced enough mod to not put in a breaking strategy for roles, and trying to out guess him is retarded.

It is also explained if he is Town. It says nothing.

Zindaras

- As Masons, have you and IH had any conversations we should know about?

I'll scour through the logs and see what we talked about.

[Zindaras]

Night One was mostly discussing suspicions.

He suggested a second scumgroup as possibility (saying Jalyn was either town or another scumgroup, probably with Kison). But he never really pressed that, so it says nothing. He also said he thought Sefer (among others) was scum bussing his buddy, but, again, we're not expecting him to be 100% correct in his statements. We ended with a little discussion about breadcrumbing. He seemed ambivalent.

[IH]

Yeah we never did that breadcrumbing ^_^

Mine and Zindy's roles were one reason that I was resisting the outguessing the mod thing. I knew we were going down the wrong path for a strategy game.

We did discuss about the bm wagon, and how we actually did talk about the number of scum on the BM wagon. We came to the conclusion that all of the scum weren't on his wagon at least.

We were in dissagreement about RR/Jalyn but....

After Ecto's claim, I'm willing to believe they are both cops...

My role PM states that I am unaware of IH's alignment (though in a somewhat stronger, more weasel wordish manner).

Mine does the same. Something like 'you don't know your partners intentions' or something.

[Kison]

Any reason he thought there was a second scum group.

[Zindaras]

Second scumgroups are always a possibility. Glork's last game (Chrono Trigger) had two scumgroups. It's never smart to consider one player confirmed because he just messed over a Mafia group, because he could very well have been part of a second scumgroup.

[Thok]

Unless we have a lot of power, two scum groups seems unlikely; that strikes me as needing at least 6 scum (a minimum of 3 people per scum group) which is already reaching 33% scum. It also means that town would have a difficult time winning even under perfect play without getting crosskill help.

For what it's worth, neither Axis and Allies nor Risk falls into the Eurogames category. (This list of Game Genres probably does a better job explaining what's happening genrewise then I could.)

(I too fell into the spend too much time clicking around on BGG page trap).

[IH]

Unless we have a lot of power, two scum groups seems unlikely; that strikes me as needing at least 6 scum (a minimum of 3 people per scum group) which is already reaching 33% scum. It also means that town would have a difficult time winning even under perfect play without getting crosskill help.

You forget that multiple scum groups hurt each other, and are almost a bigger threat than the town.

Not to mention, we've already discovered two cops (maybe) a mason pair, and a doc, a message sender, and an inventor. The only townie we've hit has been livingod.

So 3-3-12 seems like a strong town against multiple scum groups. First, scum would have to either Crosskill or scumhunt the second group with three lynches. Not only that, there would have to be... what, 4 or 5 mislynches maybe? Depending on crosskills and night actions.

It's seriously not unlikely.


Also I just looked at the first page, and only 6 players are not replacements in this game. That numbers probably gonna change with Twito.

[Thok]

Compare this game to CT-town was much more powerful there (at least IMHO, although there were a lot of weird JoaT type roles).

I also have the sneaking suspicion that Fritzler should be counted at around 1/4-1/3 of a scum in this setup (that is at the beginning of the game, he's worth about 1/4-1/3 scum; now he's significantly less likely to be scum).

I realized that my argument about GF Twito falls flat if we have an SK RB (which appeals to my sense of Glork design sense; more generally I suspect that if we have an SK, then it probably has a decent amount of buffing.)

[HackerHuck]

For what it's worth, neither Axis and Allies nor Risk falls into the Eurogames category.

This is why I didn't understand Zindaras' claim post. They are similar enough that it makes sense they would be masons.

I almost forgot. No one addressed the Vig vs SK issue. Is it assumed we have an SK, or does someone have a real reason to think we might have a Vig?

At this point I think it's not going to matter. A vig would be in the probably town group and the SK would be in the probably scum group. By tomorrow we should have a pretty good idea what we're dealing with.

I'm also a little confused about the Fritzler thing. Ectomancer seemed very confident about the die roll thing, which seemed like a rather wild theory to me and Thok is also discussing Fritzler like he's not an abnormal role. Is there some other game in which you guys have seen something like this before?

[Nightfall]

Mine and Zindy's roles were one reason that I was resisting the outguessing the mod thing. I knew we were going down the wrong path for a strategy game.

How so? It would make sense unless one of you was really scum.

[Ectomancer]

I wasnt intending to confuse HH. I feel confident that my theory on Fritzler is sound, but Im still waiting on his answer to my question.

Fritzler, what exactly did you do on night 1, if anything, and what did your message (roughly) say that gave you your alignment?

[IH]

I suddenly realized Fritz's role I think.

= ) I dunno if he's lying or not, but I think I know.

Pretty sure.

[Thok]

I'm also a little confused about the Fritzler thing. Ectomancer seemed very confident about the die roll thing, which seemed like a rather wild theory to me and Thok is also discussing Fritzler like he's not an abnormal role. Is there some other game in which you guys have seen something like this before?

I don't believe Fritz has a standard role, but I believe roles similar to what role he's suggested he has have shown up before.

Sorry to be vague, but I probably should be careful to avoid providing Fritz with a free role claim, in the off chance that he is lying.

[Thesp]

BoardGameGeek is awesome.

I'm happiest lynching Kison. I'm delaying my vote until we hear from Fritzler, as this has gotten interesting.

[Fritzler]

I wasnt intending to confuse HH. I feel confident that my theory on Fritzler is sound, but Im still waiting on his answer to my question.

Fritzler, what exactly did you do on night 1, if anything, and what did your message (roughly) say that gave you your alignment?

nuttin

and it said i would lose if i died before night 2, i'd get a new win condition then

also, i want to hear your theory before i claim cuz its not right

[Zindaras]

For what it's worth, neither Axis and Allies nor Risk falls into the Eurogames category. (This list of Game Genres probably does a better job explaining what's happening genrewise then I could.)

Risk

is

a Eurogame. See Wikipedia.

[Ectomancer]

I wasnt intending to confuse HH. I feel confident that my theory on Fritzler is sound, but Im still waiting on his answer to my question.

Fritzler, what exactly did you do on night 1, if anything, and what did your message (roughly) say that gave you your alignment?

nuttin

and it said i would lose if i died before night 2, i'd get a new win condition then

also, i want to hear your theory before i claim cuz its not right

Hmmm. I was thinking you had to choose a teammate or something and similiar and assume their alignment once you did. If you didnt do anything, that obviously is wrong, so I'll consider some more unless you claim beforehand.
Regardless, I dont think it is going to change my play for today. I believe this puts him at -2.

vote Kison

[Thok]

For what it's worth, neither Axis and Allies nor Risk falls into the Eurogames category. (This list of Game Genres probably does a better job explaining what's happening genrewise then I could.)

Risk

is

a Eurogame. See Wikipedia.

Not by any definition I've seen. Eurogames doesn't just mean "made in Europe"; it suggests a certain level of strategy in the game (which basic Risk doesn't really have) and a certain level of snobbishness.

I will note that the Wiki mentions that the Standard variant of Risk played in Europe (Secret Mission Risk) is different from the American version. That's probably worth noting.