NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[geists]

I am not lynching KBBQ, Sakura, and Pieguyn are my townreads (in addition to Geists, GM, and Mara) although it worries me how much Pie and I agree with each other. My lynch order would be:
Titus
Arthur
Muffin
Proph (interchangeable with Muffin)
Norl
Casso
Pieguyn
Sakura
KBBQ
Mara/GM/Geists

What are your thoughts about the last 12 hours or so worth of posts?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't remember saying that in MD. Link?

[KoreanBBQ]

Nero when was the last time we actually talked about stuff together?

January 23rd at 12:34 pm.

[KoreanBBQ]

I don't remember saying that in MD. Link?

ummm...it was awhile ago. I don't remember the topic name or anything....but I suppose I can look for it.

[KoreanBBQ]

Meh. Is there something you want to discuss me with?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't agree with the strategy of lynching unflexible players or tunnelers. Ultimately it is going to come down to lynching people whose playstyles you don't like. I disagree for instance that Titus would be a liability and I don't like the notion that she shouldn't be allowed near LYLO even if town. I've kept quiet about it though because I've been trying to get her slot (Cephrir) lynched for ages and I'd rather not derail a likely scum lynch. I don't care to find the PeregrineV's of this game and keep them away from LYLO. I'd rather find the PAs and lynch them and wrap up this game long before LYLO.

[Ms Marangal]

Falcon, you don't understand the pain we all went through watching Pere hammer obv-town nacho giving scum the win

[Ms Marangal]

It was the worst thing ever, and the only thing that was interchangeable between PA and Pere was their alignments

[geists]

I don't agree with the strategy of lynching unflexible players or tunnelers. Ultimately it is going to come down to lynching people whose playstyles you don't like. I disagree for instance that Titus would be a liability and I don't like the notion that she shouldn't be allowed near LYLO even if town. I've kept quiet about it though because I've been trying to get her slot (Cephrir) lynched for ages and I'd rather not derail a likely scum lynch. I don't care to find the PeregrineV's of this game and keep them away from LYLO. I'd rather find the PAs and lynch them and wrap up this game long before LYLO.

In principle I don't agree either, but I'm thinking about what, if anything would change about my list if I did agree.

It doesn't seem like anything would change for me.

NY 164 is not the first game (or last) that "my" town has lost due to horrible LYLO play by a town player, but I still have a gut level nuh-uh reaction when I think about utility lynching someone I feel sure is town. Even when I'm the only player who feels sure. Even when I can see that their grasp of the game is really weak. The game isn't just about winning. It's about being a team, even a team whose members I don't fully know. And it's about passing on what other people have taught me about the game to people less experienced.

[KoreanBBQ]

vote:Titus

[Empire]

Day 5, Votecount 10

Titus (6)

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Norlkaz, Ms Marangal, Sakura Hana, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Prophylaxis, KoreanBBQ

Ser Arthur Dayne (2)

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pieguyn, Casso the King of Seals

Prophylaxis (2)

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zMuffinMan, Titus

pieguyn (1)

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Ser Arthur Dayne

Not Voting (2)

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geists, goodmorning

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on February 12th at 7:35 AM EST or in (expired on 2014-02-12 08:35:22).

Mod Notes

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N/A

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't agree with the strategy of lynching unflexible players or tunnelers. Ultimately it is going to come down to lynching people whose playstyles you don't like. I disagree for instance that Titus would be a liability and I don't like the notion that she shouldn't be allowed near LYLO even if town. I've kept quiet about it though because I've been trying to get her slot (Cephrir) lynched for ages and I'd rather not derail a likely scum lynch. I don't care to find the PeregrineV's of this game and keep them away from LYLO. I'd rather find the PAs and lynch them and wrap up this game long before LYLO.

In principle I don't agree either, but I'm thinking about what, if anything would change about my list if I did agree.

It doesn't seem like anything would change for me.

NY 164 is not the first game (or last) that "my" town has lost due to horrible LYLO play by a town player, but I still have a gut level nuh-uh reaction when I think about utility lynching someone I feel sure is town. Even when I'm the only player who feels sure. Even when I can see that their grasp of the game is really weak. The game isn't just about winning. It's about being a team, even a team whose members I don't fully know. And it's about passing on what other people have taught me about the game to people less experienced.

I like your outlook on it being a team game. I feel that overall the goal should be prevention of LYLO rather than cure.

[goodmorning]

I would be worried about GM, too but I think being able to work with her directly helps both of us think things through

I was wondering why I didn't make that list.

I'm being quiet again today because I'm trying to reassess and it's getting confusing.

p-edit and yeah, GM. Though I think her reads improve as the game progresses. She doesn't like to let go of scum-reads, though.

Speaking of not letting go of scumreads, I don't think Casso should be in LyLo. There are too many people scumreading them to make that a good idea.
I do think we can afford to keep them around til a day before though.

Speaking of Casso, they're being a little quiet today.

I do think we need to remember that a Gunsmith clear doesn't mean a confTown.

I don't agree with the strategy of lynching unflexible players or tunnelers. Ultimately it is going to come down to lynching people whose playstyles you don't like.

I think there's a place and time for this sort of thing.

As for trying to prevent LyLo in the first place - well, everyone needs a plan B.

[pieguyn]

The main thing holding me back from pushing Pie into my town pile is that he keeps going quiet.

I'm quiet bc I really don't have anything left to do. I'm p sure of SAD/Titus/zmuffin and it looks like everyone else is seeing it too (or at least SAD/Titus, and I've already laid out why zmuffin is scum especially with SAD scum). plus it's got to the point where I have at least somewhat concrete reads on p much everyone. so I don't really need to do much of anything. I'm p much just waiting for SAD or Titus to flip and if it turns out I'm wrong I'll reevaluate

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am happy to see Titus hammered whenever.

[geists]

Daily last wills and testaments are getting old. This is giving me very uncomfortable flashbacks to ny 165.

I think I've said everything I have to say. Questions from anyone?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah. Here's a hypothetical: Casso and I are in LYLO (Casso is scum) and I have the deciding vote. I think long and hard. I research extensively into Nacho's meta. Heck, I even read a bunch of Thor games to see what I find. After hours and hours of worries, close to deadline, I finally throw out all the evidence, all the research and place one thing above all else: ffery read Nacho as town, therefore he is town... and I vote the other person - and scumcho wins! To top it all off, you were spoiled in the dead thread and knew Nacho was scum all along.

What would you do?

Spoiler: Option A

BASE jump from the nearest building

Spoiler: Option B

Snowboard on the Golden Gate Bridge

Spoiler: Option C

Kiss a killer whale to release that pent-up angst

Spoiler: Option D

Hijack an F-16 and bomb the world

[geists]

Base jump. Possibly without a parachute.

I would also commend to you this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5060976

I replaced in at 3p lylo with Majiffy and Mara. Mollie had scumread Majiffy for most of the game prior to dying the night before 3p lylo. I had to decide whether and how much to trust her majiffy read over mine.

I went with my read.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Good to hear.

[geists]

This game is different from NY164. I spent months in that game thread. nearly half a year. and my read slowly, slowly solidified. and Nacho's and my individual understandings of the game state merged a couple of times in ways where it was really, really clear that we had independently come to the same conclusions about the game design and state. In one case a changed idea about the game state changed our reads. In another case, our reads demanded that we give up very fundamental ideas about the game state and design. That degree of convergent thought was beyond what I thought Nacho could do if he was scum.

Nothing like that informs my current read of Casso. If I'm in the game long enough, and if the game develops in a way that forces me to reach that level of confidence about my read, I'll definitely say so. Possibly in iambic pentameter.

[Norlkaz]

UNVOTE: Titus
Reading.

[Norlkaz]

I think everyone is reading Casso as town thanks to derailing a lynch on somebody now regarded as probably town (though tbf megaderails for buddies aren't common anyway).
I wouldn't be ultraconfident off that but eh I'll get to him eventually.
I think that in general a lot of the townreads are being overstrengthed, with the possible exception of the ones on F16.
I don't particularly disagree with them though.
I'll do the should we actually lynch this guy post tomorrow.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm quiet bc I really don't have anything left to do. I'm p sure of SAD/Titus/zmuffin and it looks like everyone else is seeing it too (or at least SAD/Titus, and I've already laid out why zmuffin is scum especially with SAD scum). plus it's got to the point where I have at least somewhat concrete reads on p much everyone. so I don't really need to do much of anything. I'm p much just waiting for SAD or Titus to flip and if it turns out I'm wrong I'll reevaluate

Well here's a revelation for you - I'm not actually scum. So you can stop your power-lurking and actually start putting in effort, because right now you're pathetic and useless with your "ohhhh I solved the game with my super awesome deduction skills that relies on not 1, not 2, but 3 people being scum, and I will offer no compromises or bother to reread, give analysis, or bother making a case. But it's k guyz I got this. *goes back on lurk mode*"

Guys I'm gonna go quiet bc I really don't have anything left to do. [skip some pointless shit]. I'm p much just waiting for Pie to flip and if it turns out I'm wrong I'll reevaluate.

Now imagine the whole town said something along those lines ^. How stupid would it look. Your apathy currently is not helping anyone whatsoever, and you're being dead-weight. I can't even try to determine your alignment anymore if you're being useless, and it looks like you have no intention of actually doing something that is mildly town-motivated anymore. I despise anyone who says some dumb shit like the thing you just said, because it gives us, the "accused", literally NOTHING TO WORK WITH.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I've already laid out why zmuffin is scum especially with SAD scum

Also this is pretty much why you should go back to Road to Rome.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm p much just waiting for SAD or Titus to flip and if it turns out I'm wrong I'll reevaluate

Also notice how he's already preparing for his back-tracking ^