Mini 410 - McDonald's Mafia [Game Over!]

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

What the counterclaimer thinks has nothing to do with it. If Dean is telling the truth, his opinion is no better or worse than anybody else's. I don't see why you're insistent on putting so much weight on "but the counterclaimer says there could be two!" The

only

thing that says to me is "if PP *does* turn up scum, DW is definitely scum, and he's trying to pre-emptively explain himself." Still, everything I'm seeing points to PP being scum right now.

I'd think normally when someone claims the same role as you, you would counter and immediately accuse the other person of being scum. But that wasn't the case with PP and DW.

[yellowbounder]

@MM: how can PP prove her claim? if she is scum, she'll just make up a result and pretend to be naive or paranoid or whatever.

e.g. she gets guilty result and the person gets lynched and turns out scum.

If she continues to give suspicious results we can evaluate her at that later point. My main point about PP is that she should get a chance to prove herself when her claim has legit flavor and the counterclaimer didn't even say she's scum.

I don't see too much with checking for poison, or checking in the pockets. To me that's standard.
A way to probably confirm the flavor is to have someone killed by scum, assuming they use poison. That's not something we want, but it's probably going to happen at some point. Although, if PP was scum, then she would also know the method of dispatch.

No the holiday in the sun by a lake and several volcanoes was actually pretty good. I want to go back already

You misunderstand. I was talking about you speculating about your death. But nice holiday, anyhow.

[DeanWinchester]

I think either PP or Yellow is the play.
The flavor of PP's role seems too dead on to me. I completely believe she is a townie.
Yellowbounder has been sketchy most of the game. He either has been lurky or when he does post it is very scum posting.

I'm going to

vote: Yellowbounder.

[Glork]

Although, if PP was scum, then she would also know the method of dispatch.

Bingo. Dean, I don't see how you see "the flavor of PP's role [being] too dead on" as a sign that she's pro-town. It could very well mean that

she knows how the townies are killed because she's the one who does it.

[DeanWinchester]

She claimed manager. If I was Making this game I would make the manager a worthless paranoid/naive cop. (which would also let her know about the poison.)
I get your point Glork. But I don't play follow the Glork. I'm going to make the decisions I feel comfortable with.

Confirm vote: yellowbounder.

[StallingChamp]

She claimed manager. If I was Making this game I would make the manager a worthless paranoid/naive cop. (which would also let her know about the poison.)
I get your point Glork. But I don't play follow the Glork. I'm going to make the decisions I feel comfortable with.

Confirm vote: yellowbounder.

You didn't make the game, did you? And yet you managed to think of that on your own. You are not the smartest person in the world, so therefore, PP could also have thought of that.

[Glork]

Now... you people

do

realize that if we manage

not

to lynch PP today, FrAt will simply KILL HER OVERNIGHT... right?

[DeanWinchester]

If frat wants to make that decision he can. He has the role so he can do what ever he wants with it. I think we should lynch yellowbounder.
I realize that at best it's a fifty shes town, but right now I think she is going to come up a paranoid/naive cop.

And don't worry if she comes up scum I'm going to feel incredibly stupid and expect not to make it through the night.

[pete d]

something just twigged in my brain:

My title is Obese Customer. I am a doctor because I steal the poisoned burgers being fed to the mafia victims and eat them.

My body is so well adjusted to eating junk food that the poisons just get filtered through

, and the victim goes hungry for the night but survives.

(emphasis added)

BUT he can't self protect? the role mechanic makes no sense. surely if he is safe from someone else's poison, he should be safe from being directly poisoned.

vote: PP

In light of DW's role, hers seems a bit fake, given the striking similarities. The circumstances of the RB and lack of kills make her more likely to be mafia. + her hesitation in committing to any vote yesterday, but still spreading suspicion, as well as holding off on DoS for a whiles.

[Pink Princess]

FrAt will simply KILL HER OVERNIGHT... right?

FA can kill people?

And for the record, I should not be lynched.
That is all.

[Glork]

PP:

I'm a Fanatical Vegan. I came here to protest Mickey D's but I don't want to get killed by scumz. I've got a Roleblocker/Vigilante role. Blocking PP D1, combined with the fact that the doctor is already outed and the textbook mafia hit, combined with her late D1 play (read it yourself), puts her at the top of my scumdar.

Pete D: Interesting "catch." I'll have to think about that one. Right now, PP is still the play.

[Frozen Atlantic]

Now... you people

do

realize that if we manage

not

to lynch PP today, FrAt will simply KILL HER OVERNIGHT... right?

Town, please resume letting Glork think for you.

[Glork]

It's sad that I'm more obesrvant than you guys, and I'm not even pro-town.

[yellowbounder]

My title is Obese Customer. I am a doctor because I steal the poisoned burgers being fed to the mafia victims and eat them. My body is so well adjusted to eating junk food that the poisons just get filtered through[, and the victim goes hungry for the night but survives.

I'm just pointing out the recurring theme of poison here. Amb used poison to describe role before PP, since Amb claimed before PP.

[StallingChamp]

But any scum will know the poison theme...

[Pink Princess]

Ah, he claimed roleblocker/vig. Thanks, I missed that the first time around.

[Amb]

StallingChamp

: Voted Blago for voting glork. Proxied his vote, and claims to have done so for conversations sake. If so, it worked. It also started a fight between him and Frozen Atlantic over the motivation of such a move. Glork had a go at Pete d. In Pete d's retalliation he also voted Stalling Champ. At this, Stallingchamp suspiciously announced that Glork was onto something and voted Pete D. Voted me with VOTE: tags for climbing scumometer In one post he votes DoS for "Blind following, Doing what most people are doing" and then in his next post votes me with "Yeah, Amb is climbing the scummeter quickly". He hasnt exactly added to the argument - he really just blindly followed. I dont mind blind follows as I tend to play that way (and or vote without comment) but when you are bussing one player for doing so, and then do so yourself, it does come across as opportunistic. Then when I tried to analyse those on my bandwagons he strangely suggests "...its telling that you think 8 people are suspicious. Trying to spread the accusations much? ". Kind of odd, all I would need is one to defuse my bandwagon. But when a decent number on my bandwagon probably were town what else could I do. Especially when I cant decide which are scum and which are not.

Once I claimed doctor - stallingchamps post nature changed extremely. It went from "Amb is climbing the scummeter" and other indecisive looking posts to 'Amb's claim seems geniune enough for me. Sorry DoS' to 'This vote will not be moving today, short of any scum coming out. and saying "I'm scum".' to 'Exerpt from his post, italics emphasis mine. That it not true, I do not accept your claim at all. I am 99% sure you are scum' to 'I've said it before, but I'll repeat it. DoS is scum. Without saying too much, his claim makes me very sure he is scum. I cannot expand without revealing my role, but I will expand further if the town wishes. ' In my mind this makes me wonder if Stalling champ is in the same scum team. First of all he weakly apologises as though to a scum buddy, but then becomes extremely convinced on the role posting. As he goes on he begins hinting a role himself.

Now - in order for him not to believe DoS, he has to have a town like role that is sufficiently different from DoS's claim for it not to add up. This then would imply he is town and nothing else. He hints at a role a few times and finally comes out with "Since I pseudo-claimed yesterday to lynch DoS, does the town want me to come out and fully claim? ".

To me he is hinting at a power role. I have a power role. Yet I believed dos? Why? DoS claimed townie via "Scared Townie". Fact is I didnt know what a 'normal townies' role looked like. Therefore, Stallingchamp is either a normal townie or a scum. Me as a power townie didnt know what a townie role would look like makes me think another power townie would have a similar problem. But SC implies he has a power role "his claim makes me very sure he is scum. I cannot expand without revealing my role".

I am trying to read through on all players. I just happened to start with StallingChamp since he is player 1 in the game list.

Unless I turn up something pretty impressive with the remaining living, I am probably going to vote him. (Likewise if he can now convince me I am totally wrong about his assertions)

[Amb]

(Addition to this, if SC was ordinary townie, his argument would not have been hindered if he said "I am an ordinary townie" this is why I dont believe him, and there would have been no risk to him by saying that)

[DeanWinchester]

Why are you going after some one that is the one of the more confirmed townies.

[Amb]

Notes:
Lynch of a scum - (Frozen Atlantic, DeanWinchester, Stalling Champ, Glork,

Pink Princess, The Central Scrutinizer, Amb)
pete d - 1 (Zarvok)
Not Voting (3): yellowbounder, Omega, pete d

Stalling Champ: 8/10

See 2 posts previous

Pink Princess: 2/10

Third to last on a scum lynch. Seems to be in love with Glork. Defers to his opinion a few times. Has claimed power role. (FA's claim is totally legit, as I was blocked last night, and can confirm that as a fact. Pro-town blocker? Not sure. Roleblocker? Sure.). Later claimed cop. Not worth pursuing, as FA wont block her this time? This one should resolve itself anyways.

Glork: 10/10

Has claimed non town non scum role. Should be lynched. Should be vigged. Either or. Timing of death is up to the vig / discussion.

yellowbounder: 5½/10

'I've looked at Amb, and he seems... slightly off. There's something possibly too joking, not serious enough about him' yet earlier joked: 'Amb is obviously a protown player.' You know im struggling to find anything incriminating when that is the best I can do. Has only 16 posts this game! He doesnt like the fact that I think revealing my protection last night is bad. I will do that closer to the lynch if needed. I cant honestly go anything else but the 5/10 for now. Perhaps an extra half point due to lack of posting (yes, hypocritical of me, sorry). (Also Failed to vote for the lynched scum)

Frozen Atlantic 6/10:

Argues that YB is scum with this brilliant elaboration: 'Yellowbounder: Town----------Scummy---Scum '. Well... Actually I have honestly no idea what he is arguing. Maybe he was arguing town? Claimed Vigilante/Roleblocker. Doesnt believe the cop claim. Hard to know because a block today on PP could prevent another kill but could likewise prevent us gaining important information. Could be a claim to attract doc protection, but roleblocker is too hard to fake out. Will be telling the truth about role. But cant tell about alignment. Enshrouded doubt puts FrAt up the list.

petra d

Called me 'She' when petra d knows better. Deserves a lynch for this :-p. Wasnt on the scum lynch but was clearly watching. Posted immediately with 'thats a lunch'. Did speculate about the RB concept quite early. Also doesnt believe the cop claim.
Asked me about my claim with:

Amb wrote:
My title is Obese Customer. I am a doctor because I steal the poisoned burgers being fed to the mafia victims and eat them. My body is so well adjusted to eating junk food that the poisons just get filtered through, and the victim goes hungry for the night but survives.

BUT he can't self protect? the role mechanic makes no sense. surely if he is safe from someone else's poison, he should be safe from being directly poisoned.

Can't help you there sorry. For all I know I might be night immune, but if I am the mod hasn't seen fit to tell me. That could account for no death last night, but IMHO it would unbalance the game. So probably not. In short, I have no real read on Petra d.

DeanWinchester 6/10

Regularly listed as Deadwinchester by the mod. Hilarious. Perhaps the mod was wrong DeanLynchester? Made me laugh with "One small problem with your plan Glork. You can't shut up to save your life." I am noticing that myself Claimed to be poison detector but still said "Somthing with Amb's claim just made me very uneasy" when I said I could eat a poisoned burger, yet clearly could have just checked me out. Is the second cop claim. Of the two claims is more likely to be made up (An easy claim when someone has already claimed soemthing to do with poison) "Also I think its time to seriosly DISCUSS a mass-claim. " Its day 2 not Day 5!!!! The only thing is that we have claimed already a role blocker, 2 cops and a doc. And that might not be all (Still reading etc)

blahgo/The Central Scrutinizer 5/10

: Has claimed town. Wants me to protect PP (nonbold FOS TCS, dont try to direct any doc). Tend to think he might be town, but really not an easy read. A lot of small posts.

Omega/Machiavellian-Mafia & Zarvok/now a ranger

:
Struggling to see anything incriminating. Given my suspicion of Stalling Champ as scum, I think I am happiest to follow that lead.

Unvote; Vote StallingChamp

DW:"Why are you going after some one that is the one of the more confirmed townies." Because on reading the posts etc, I felt that SC was less than confirmed. I found some items that struck me as unusual in a scum sense. PP could be considered 'more confirmed' because of her claim yet could be lying. I wont write anyone off yet as not scum even if I am reasonable convinced of being correct.

About the only other lynch I will consider at the moment has to be Glork. And I cant see that one happening actually.

[yellowbounder]

[quote="Amb]Frozen Atlantic 6/10: Argues that YB is scum with this brilliant elaboration: 'Yellowbounder: Town----------Scummy---Scum '. Well... Actually I have honestly no idea what he is arguing. Maybe he was arguing town? Claimed Vigilante/Roleblocker. Doesnt believe the cop claim. Hard to know because a block today on PP could prevent another kill but could likewise prevent us gaining important information. Could be a claim to attract doc protection, but roleblocker is too hard to fake out. Will be telling the truth about role. But cant tell about alignment. Enshrouded doubt puts FrAt up the list.[/quote]

If I may be so bold to say that was Frozen Atlantic explaining the difference between scummy and scum, and their various levels.

I'm assuming the X/10 is scummyness or something or other.

[Glork]

Glork: 10/10 Has claimed non town non scum role. Should be lynched. Should be vigged. Either or. Timing of death is up to the vig / discussion.

I have two issues with this. You're placing me at a higher killing priority than StallingChamp, yet you're going after StallingChamp much more actively. It seems to me that one way or another, you're just being lazy about going after me. You express the strongest desire possible in a mafia game to have me lynched, but A) You don't even vote for me; and B) You don't actually make a case as to

why

I am, in any way, a threat to thet town. Your, uh... logic?... doens't make any sense. It seems that your desire to have me killed is based

entirely

on my claim of "Survivor, Neutral."

Do you believe this claim? If so, why do you think the town has anything to gain by lynching me? Do you realize that a lynch on a Neutral player whose win condition is not mutually exclusive with the town's is effectively nothing more than a lynch on a vanilla townie? Nevermind that I'm paying more attention and putting more effort into finding scum than several of the other players in the game.

Do you disbelieve the claim? If this is the case,

why

do you disbelieve the claim? What evidence points to me being scum? What would you think if PP were lynched/vigged as scum (knowing that I went after DoS and basically pushed him to falseclaim, and also poked at PP towards the end of the day, indicating that I think she is scum)?


Please elaborate on your PP stance better. You notice that she tends to flock to me. I'm widely seen as a respectable scumhunter. I don't understand how you can possibly see constantly riding

my

coattails as anything but a scumtell.

Your stance on Dean is completely backwards. Being the second to claim Cop is an indicator that they're

more

likely to be telling the truth, as we are

far from LyLo

. His flavor makes just as much sense, IMHO. I should also note that DW is a newer/weaker player.... while that doesn't excuse his talking about a massclaim completely, it could be an indication that he just doesn't realize how bad an idea a massclaim is right now. Considering his acceptance of PP's claim, I see him as being a very naive player overall.

[pete d]

yeah, i believe DW's claim over PP's, if he is lying he would get lynched either today or tomorrow, don't make no sense; whereas PP was getting close to lynch.

[StallingChamp]

StallingChamp

: Voted Blago for voting glork. Proxied his vote, and claims to have done so for conversations sake. If so, it worked. It also started a fight between him and Frozen Atlantic over the motivation of such a move. Glork had a go at Pete d. In Pete d's retalliation he also voted Stalling Champ. At this, Stallingchamp suspiciously announced that Glork was onto something and voted Pete D. Voted me with VOTE: tags for climbing scumometer In one post he votes DoS for "Blind following, Doing what most people are doing" and then in his next post votes me with "Yeah, Amb is climbing the scummeter quickly". He hasnt exactly added to the argument - he really just blindly followed. I dont mind blind follows as I tend to play that way (and or vote without comment) but when you are bussing one player for doing so, and then do so yourself, it does come across as opportunistic. Then when I tried to analyse those on my bandwagons he strangely suggests "...its telling that you think 8 people are suspicious. Trying to spread the accusations much? ". Kind of odd, all I would need is one to defuse my bandwagon. But when a decent number on my bandwagon probably were town what else could I do. Especially when I cant decide which are scum and which are not.

Once I claimed doctor - stallingchamps post nature changed extremely. It went from "Amb is climbing the scummeter" and other indecisive looking posts to 'Amb's claim seems geniune enough for me. Sorry DoS' to 'This vote will not be moving today, short of any scum coming out. and saying "I'm scum".' to 'Exerpt from his post, italics emphasis mine. That it not true, I do not accept your claim at all. I am 99% sure you are scum' to 'I've said it before, but I'll repeat it. DoS is scum. Without saying too much, his claim makes me very sure he is scum. I cannot expand without revealing my role, but I will expand further if the town wishes. ' In my mind this makes me wonder if Stalling champ is in the same scum team. First of all he weakly apologises as though to a scum buddy, but then becomes extremely convinced on the role posting. As he goes on he begins hinting a role himself.

Now - in order for him not to believe DoS, he has to have a town like role that is sufficiently different from DoS's claim for it not to add up. This then would imply he is town and nothing else. He hints at a role a few times and finally comes out with "Since I pseudo-claimed yesterday to lynch DoS, does the town want me to come out and fully claim? ".

To me he is hinting at a power role. I have a power role. Yet I believed dos? Why? DoS claimed townie via "Scared Townie". Fact is I didnt know what a 'normal townies' role looked like. Therefore, Stallingchamp is either a normal townie or a scum. Me as a power townie didnt know what a townie role would look like makes me think another power townie would have a similar problem. But SC implies he has a power role "his claim makes me very sure he is scum. I cannot expand without revealing my role".

I am trying to read through on all players. I just happened to start with StallingChamp since he is player 1 in the game list.

Unless I turn up something pretty impressive with the remaining living, I am probably going to vote him. (Likewise if he can now convince me I am totally wrong about his assertions)

Yeah, that post comes off as very scummy to me. Not only do I think I've confirmed myself, that that post includes lies/distortion of facts.

Once I claimed doctor - stallingchamps post nature changed extremely

People claim to try and save their lives, right? Therefore they are trying to convince people they aren't scum, right? Therefore someone unvoting and backing off after a (good) claim of a power-role is doing what you expected (/hoped), right?

In my mind this makes me wonder if Stalling champ is in the same scum team.

Did you even read how the DoS lynch evolved? He claimed, people started backing off,

then I busted him

. If I had been scum, how could I have assumed that the claim was bad? Why would I push VERY strongly for the lynch of a scumbuddy who seemed to have passed a decent claim.

But SC implies he has a power role

Addition to this, if SC was ordinary townie, his argument would not have been hindered if he said "I am an ordinary townie" this is why I dont believe him, and there would have been no risk to him by saying that

First quote there is wrong. Second is is not true. Please show me where I implyed powerrole at all. Also, claiming vanilla limits the possible powerroles down for the scum, and I would expect you to know that.

FoS:Amb

for now, but it may escalate into a vote later. I do not ant to vote a claimed Doc just yet...

[Pink Princess]

For what it's worth, my opinion:

The assertions that I am simply following Glork around the whole game are starting to annoy me. First of all, as I already explained, Glork is a good scumhunter with a good track record and even a title - would anyone argue with this? No. Asking him to

clarify his stances

and

elaborate on what direction he's headed

because I know he's got rational thought behind what he posts is not blindly following him around, or constantly riding his coattails or even proposing marriage. I find the assertions that I'm just following him around as an actual argument against me are exaggerated at best, and completely unfounded at worst. So that's what I think about that.

I also think lynching Amb is a terrible play.

I also tend to believe DW's claim for some reason, because a. there's no good strategy involving scum counterclaiming the real cop - you're busted the minute the cop is lynched. Unless you can convince the town there are 2 at that point, which is tough. b. If he were faking, he would have probably made up a claim that differed from mine. I'm taking the stance that there are 2 cops of differing sanities, as we both can confirm that neither of us is a back-up.

I'm basically getting lynched here anyway, but now you've got my thoughts.