Mini 1537: ATTACK ON TITAN (Game Over!)

[Paschendale]

F-16 probably sees Pasch's weakness and that explains why he's jumping on the chance to vote him in 406. Can I get "Desperate Attempt to Counterwagon" for 500, Alex?

My "weakness" is not handing out townreads over what looked like a scum-motivated gambit at worst and a complete mess at best.

Also, why aren't you questioning why the Pasch wagon lost steam?

Because it was bad and full of OMGUS.

#2 feels more true to me, especially given that Pie put out bs reasons against me, and people called it "good reasoning" despite it being clearly based on a misrep of what I said.

So make a decent case on Pie.

HOW THE FUCK ARE MY RESPONSES SHIT? YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON. I EXPLAINED EVERYTHING OVER AND OVER AND YOU ARE STILL NOT GETTING IT.

And yet you're not explaining things well enough to convince anyone. Your thoughts are incredibly disorganized. Hence, puking out thoughts that don't go together.

Kagami just tipped her hand.

She's either a lot less good that people have been giving her credit for, or she's scum trying to protect a buddy.

That's what I said before, but no one wanted to hear it.

This fits nicely into the narrative of scum-Kagami gambiting and trying to discredit me catching onto why something she hoped would be an auto-towntell isn't actually a town tell.

Someone gets it!

Don't get me wrong, this occurred to me as a definite possibility. I waited to see her response while she might still have had confidence in my Townread on her. I'm not particularly impressed?

Kagami - are you really that sure scum had no information about the Weak modifier? As in, does your PM give you direct reason to believe that? Nothing in-thread suggests that they didn't. Even if the risk isn't small, your Broscum read rests on the assumption that Town-Bro wouldn't see it this way or wouldn't call out a mechanic or setup element that didn't make sense from a balance perspective.

I

didn't think it made much sense to assume that; I only did because your confidence implied you had information in your Role PM that indicated that scum didn't know. I just can't fathom why you think this is a good argument, which gives me at least some pause. Bro - you may be right. Hm. Really not sure here. It would explain one thing that didn't make sense - why did Kagami out what Weak meant so easily when Bert didn't get it? What was gained for the Town by doing that? It was a piece of information that could always be explained later if it turned out that it was necessary e.g. if people kept running Bert up after all that.

I don't want to be too condescending here but I'll take the risk. I'm not here to referee theory fights that people get worked up about, take too personally or seriously, and vote on. Or maybe I am, but I'd rather people didn't make me spend my energy on it. This exactly what Town

does not

need.

Stop voting people because they piss you off, because I don't want to have to clean up the mess.

I actually like everything in here. Plum is right on every point. Kagami's whole gambit really did rely on setup knowledge that she didn't have. Whether it was an intentional deception or a mistake seems to be the real crux.

Also F-16 needs to chill out.

No, there was no special reason to believe they wouldn't have known about it beyond my own experience reading games.

So then why did you misrepresent this as actual knowledge, rather than a guess?

@anyone:

does anyone know how to read Kaze? if so what are your reads on him?

He reads to me like Thor or Majiffy. They just want town to follow them. They do this as town and as scum. I would be careful giving Kaze townpoints. You can end up tricking yourself and confusing leadership with actually being on the side of town.

Kaze: Pasche literally and directly misrepped Kagami. He stated that she pretended that Weak meant Normal Weak even though she knew that wasn't true - but she

never

did so; from the beginning she stated clearly that it

wasn't

Normal Weak. So, besides an outright lie and a bunch of fallacious accusations that I lied -

On the contrary, Kagami went along with everyone else's "what's a weak miller" and asked for more weak claims... and only then addressed the idea that weak didn't mean what it normally does. Maybe you don't don't see the malicious intent like I do, but no part of what I said was a misrepresentation.

And then you said this, which actually IS a lie:

This isn't even remotely plausible. Scum don't and can't have the Weak modifier; they are Weak by default.

You don't know that. And asserting it as a fact when it's a guess as best and a lie at worst only made Kagami's gambit worse for everyone.

-------

Up until this last post, I was starting to turn around on Plum, but I really can't shake that she and Kagami are trying really hard to cover each other's backs.

I genuinely think it was a scum-motivated gambit to get out a lot of information about roles that was far more beneficial to scum than it was to town. That is the strongest indicator I see from this day and arguing about the current wagons has just mucked it up. I'm not gonna compromise onto a weaker read when I'm so sure about this one.

As noted above, some of you see it, too. Bro and Plum do. Kaze could if he checked his ego a little. Make scum pay for trying to trick us.

VOTE: Kagami

[Kazekirimaru]

I . . . don't care? Chances of running up two scumbags as serious wagons Day 1 isn't super high? And I haven't yet seriously read F-16 as scum? I have no way of having a good idea of how plausible it is right now except by the broadest heuristics, and it doesn't even really matter to me Day 1.

Meh. This really wasn't the answer I was hoping for. But I'll take it anyway.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pasch

[Plum]

Pasche, I explained both of those already. You obviously can read the game. I'm not going back over this.

[Kagami]

Kaze could if he checked his ego a little.

Kaze's ego is my favorite ego so far.

[zMuffinMan]

oh yeah

i haven't really read anything in the last 10 or so pages yet and i prob won't until some time tonight (depending on when i get home)

if anyone is close to lynch, do me a favour and wait a bit before it happens

ty

[Kagami]

o.o

you posted 2 pages ago.

[Kagami]

Btw, I think you're right that Eren is scum. I can't help but wonder how you knew, but meh

[zMuffinMan]

yeah and i hadn't read anything when i posted 2 pages ago either

[Kazekirimaru]

Don't bother pretending like you need to read, muffin. You're free to coast until it's time to lynch you.

[Tammy]

Btw, I think you're right that Eren is scum. I can't help but wonder how you knew, but meh

Why do you think Eren is scum?

[Tammy]

Myko - I didn't say I've seen falcon do that before, I said it's the type of analysis I'd expect from falcon. He's very meta heavy and comparative in his analysis.


Falcon - what is your read on pascendale?

the exact same reasoning goes...

I mean, this way we could talk to eachother and people won't know we aren't married. Jeez. (YOU ARE THE MOST ANNOYING PERSON IN THE WORLD AND I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU)

Um yeah, that is not the same thing, and I think you know this. You are trying to use my post as a gotcha! to falcon. I'm saying I expect meta and other game analysis from Falcon because that's how he plays the game.

[Tammy]

Tammy makes good points, but then ignored all of them to vote for me.

You do realize that the majority of the good points I raised for why you were scum and everyone else I talked about was town?

[Tammy]

BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT

You are weirding me the fuck out being all over place except here when you've been onsite. Please come in here and town it up!

[ActionDan]

paranoia only goes so far tammy

[Bert]

Hey y'all! I'm way behind and will be here Wednesday night to look over things.

Disclaimer: This is a prod dodge and has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that I do not have the access I need to provide whatever level of contributions that I am capable of for the majority of the year. Holidays are often an exception and a weak point for my computer access, as are weekends.

Bert <3

[Bert]

BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT BERT

You are weirding me the fuck out being all over place except here when you've been onsite. Please come in here and town it up!

No such thing as towning it up. I got lynched in most of my marathons while trying to be town. Only towning it up as in towning it up to players that know me.

I'm also way behind because it's holidays and I don't have non-limited access till Wednesday night aka school/dorms reopening. I got p-edited by your last two posts.

[Plum]

paranoia only goes so far tammy

Ah, the under-readable Dan resurfaces.

[Tammy]

Bro - did you really make four posts to respond to Brian Skies' one post in several points? I mean I get that I tend to mult-post and spam, but really?

Also, there's something I've been meaning to ask you since the other night. You mentioned me not being here and how that was problematic, even thought the game hadn't been going on long, and that I would be a good person to push to see how it panned out. How come you didn't push it? And were you satisfied with what I posted that night that you didn't feel the need to bring it up again?

[Kazekirimaru]

Btw, I think you're right that Eren is scum. I can't help but wonder how you knew, but meh

Why do you think Eren is scum?

What a magnificent question.

[Tammy]

I'm defensive because I'm responding to attacks on me.

Wat.

Also, you have like twice as many scum reads as there are scum.

I'd rather lynch Pie, but I'll probably end up jumping to this since mine and F-16's wagons look counter to this, and his posts suck.

You got defensive before there were many attacks on you, and were disproportionate in your defense. Your tone changed completely from a sensible offense to a desperate sounding defense.

Of course I have lots of scum reads, it's day 1. That's normal. While a lot of players in this game seem to like handing out townreads like candy, I don't. I think a lot more people are deserving of scumreads.

I'm not seeing where my tone was "disproportionate."

Hint: Because it wasn't.

Now go fuck off and try to push a less-shitty counter wagon. Tell your scum buddy Pie to join you.

Your pick for scum team is pieguyn/falcon/paschendale then?

[Tammy]

Oh. My. Gods.

Brosdeidon might be town. But infuriating. Though Town. I'll have to read a scum game of his to see if he also plays like this as scum, but he's reminding me of his self-righteously I'm right self that he did in Anything Goes. And you know what? The scum tell on Falcon is not a scum tell. And it doesn't make Dan town because he happened to notice that Falcon dropped a line of questioning early game. Like ffs, picking up on dropping a line of questioning is the most superficially easy thing you can do as scum and push it. Why? Because it's in thread and it doesn't cost you a thing. You don't have to go why, as town should, did he drop his line of questioning, you just get to point out that it's there and hidey ho you've got an in thread provable scum tell that makes you look like you're scumhunting.

Broseidon should be probing deeper and so should Dan.

[Plum]

Of the two, Dan seems hella more scummy than Bro.

[Tammy]

My town read on Kagami has just dropped based on her points against Broseidon that he's scum due to he wouldn't be rude about the mod if he were town? Please, someone tell me I'm wrong on that because that's the most convoluted piece of garbage I've seen in a long time. And to top if off she's like of but Pasch is still a scum read fwiw...teehee (okay the teehee is my add-in)

[Plum]

Tammy: You're not wrong.

[Tammy]

I'll be back tomorrow. Kagami+F-16 make me want to punch a kitten.

*hugs my kitten for compensation*