NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[BROseidon]

And if you're scum doc, I might do something terrible to an innocent kitten in anger. If you're scum doc, just claim now. Think of the kittens.

In all fairness scum should have just scooped at the start of the game b/c I rolled town.

[geists]

I dunno. I seem to be pretty controversial this game. Not in many null piles.

If you assume that F-16 ended day 1 convinced that I'm town and feeling that he'd made a rock-solid case for my being town, then I can understand a "what the hell, why'd you waste an investigation on GEISTS??" reaction.

I've been there before. I have a history of berating vigs for killing my townreads, like my townreads should be treated as though they're written on stone tablets.

I wasn't hugely impressed with his reaction test late day 1. The first part wasn't bad, but I felt like the further push wasn't very meaningful and the results wasn't very alignment indicative. If scum-me faked the initial reaction, the second one would have been a gimme.

pedit If I'm scum-doc I would have been totally confused by your crumbing. Another game having a gunsmith in it so soon after ny167 is mindboggling.

[geists]

Given domo has softclaimed all over the landscape since the start of day 2 and now full-claimed, it makes your statement about him and your read of me pretty far up there as incomprehensibilities go. The only way to make sense of your reads is if you think two scum would risk this sort of exposure this early in the game when neither of us were in any particular lynch danger at the start of day 2.

domo hadn't full claimed and was still coasting on wifom when people were giving him hard townreads for voting someone for townreading him and his "you don't have to unvote me if you still think i'm scum generic" lines.

I thought people were townreading him for looking for all the world like a PR in distress.

[MC Maraca]

my townreads should be treated as though they're written on stone tablets.

To be fair they kind of lynch-crucified the last person that claimed his laws were on stone tablets.

[Empire]

Day 2, Votecount 11

Ser Arthur Dayne (5)

-

Casso the King of Seals, Bert, Desperado, Cephrir, DOMO

Bert (2)

-

KoreanBBQ, Ser Arthur Dayne

Desperado (1)

-

Sakura Hana

Not Voting (10)

-

geists, MC Maraca, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, MafiaSSK, pieguyn, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan, Generic, goodmorning, BROseidon

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! Deadline is on January 11th at 10:10 AM EST (expired on 2014-01-11 11:10:12)

Mod Notes

-

BROseidon is V/LA until January 3rd.

[DOMO]

That rev metadive that F-16 indulged in looks pretty town. I might have to metadive him in return.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I think F-16 is giving me most concern right now.

Arthur, can you explain your townread on me?

You benefit literally 0 from the Tammy kill, and in fact, lose a lot.

[pieguyn]

CATCHUP GO

Yay, let's wagon the townread (at least one of mine) after the null we're trying to wagon claims doc.

Anymore stupid decisions while I'm not there so I can't yell and complain about them in the moment?

afaik on D1 you were all about not lynching SSK bc it wouldn't give any information. wouldn't a lynch on SC give way more information than a lynch on SSK?

DOMO, just checking here but are you going to call everyone who had issues with you suspicious, or are you actually going somewhere with these walls?

What? I like how you focus on my casso push and ignore the bit where I call gesist town.

I was asking a question based on the fact I see you dive in on casso who had suspicions of you and then zmuffins who made a comment about you.

I asked whether you were going somewhere with it or just gonna post another wall with another player named for suspicion for uttering your name in a negative light.

But feel free to jump on the defensive and a respond with something irrelevant to what I asked.

Oh, and good for you that you think geists is town for not killing you in the night... Is that a legitimate reason around here?

I think posts like this are what pinged in generic vs. DOMO. bc it felt p clear to me what DOMO was doing (refuting generic's point with the geists read, then generic said it was irrelevant) and I felt generic was twisting DOMO's words aroudn. but looking at the rest of the argument I don't think that's what happened, or if it was it was unintentional

My apologies for calling you a moron DOMO.

unvote

I don't mind you voting me if you think I'm scummy generic, don't feel compelled to unvote to keep things civil.

the way this argument ended felt town as shit on both sides. Generic's outburst and subsequent backoff felt town as fuck and I get where he was coming from with his arguments. that with F-16's meta read later on gives me a solid townread on him. same thing with DOMO. the way they worked out how it was a misunderstanding felt so town I almost cried =w=

pieguyn: I liked his entry posts but he keeps doing weird things, like blowing up which seems really out of character in between calm posts. Tone is too cold for my tastes.

so you think it's weird when I make an emotional post, but when I make logical posts it's also weird bc the tone is too cold?

Hmm it can't be possible that the whole scumteam (minus nacho) is jumping on my wagon can it.

Hmmm.

I know you pushed on me for OMGUS'ing everyone who was pushing on me. why are you doing the same thing here? 0.0

looking back on it, why was my reaction one of the most boringest reactions in the world? I've seen scum hide behind the "reaction test" excuse too many times. in a game that just finished, scum tried to quickhammer, FAILED, wrote it off as a reaction test and no one caught it. although it was probably bc town was too apathetic to catch it, but the idea still holds

wow your push on me really was opportunistic as fuck. it doesn't help that your read on me seems to be derived from everyone else's read on me at that time. you townread me after your initial push and when people started scumreading me again you moved me lower

Bert, Desperado
MafiaSSK, geists, Cephrir
pieguyn, BROseidon, KoreanBBQ, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan
goodmorning, Sakura, DOMO, Generic
Casso, F-16, MC Maraca

what the fuck?

first off, I thought SSK was null. how did he go from null to null-scum?

second off, back to the comment about the information from a SC lynch. there was plenty of discussion about SC so I'd imagine you should be going back and looking at his wagon and people's stances on him etc. in order to analyze it

Stuffed Crust (11) (LYNCH) - Cephrir, geists, Tammy, Desperado, Bert, Sakura Hana, MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz, pieguyn, KoreanBBQ
Casso the King of Seals (3) - zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic

Bert

,

Desperado

MafiaSSK

,

geists

,

Cephrir

pieguyn

, BROseidon,

KoreanBBQ

,

Norlkaz

, zMuffinMan
goodmorning,

Sakura

, DOMO, Generic
Casso,

F-16

, MC Maraca

especially considering all of your scumreads seem to be on the wagon. yet you forget about said wagon, don't go back to look at how your scumreads jumped on the wagon, and never bring it up again? and instead you ATTACK THE GUY WHO'S SCRUTINIZING HOW YOUR NULL READ HAMMERED?

I like this wagon

vote: arthur

Can anyone remind me why MC Maraca claimed?

bc they have daychat, and so they think scum probably has daychat and they want everyone to know this

[pieguyn]

@Cephrir:

what do you think about 2268?

@geists:

why are you having reservations about nacho?

looking back on his D1 play, I'm not sure if I see the scum motivation in it. first off we had SC who practically had a death note signed thx to GIF scumreading him. instead nacho made a town case and stood by it. and now that he flipped town we know he wasn't trying to defend a buddy, so why would scum nacho directly stand against GIF and everyone who was supporting him (most of the player list)? especially bc he had every opportunity to mislynch SC and he didn't take it 0.0 he could be scum faking, but idk

second, the wagon switching at deadline. you said all the effort he put in was town as fuck. are you starting to rethink this?

also, do you disagree with all the people saying thor is town as fuck? I'm inclined to agree with them after going insane on D1 bc now I get his feeling of "just wanting a lynch already". also, nacho's push on me bc of my lack of interest in zmuffin makes so much more sense considering he knew zmuffin was scum against me in marketplace 3

@Maraca:

^

@anyone with a scumread on bert:

explain

@geists and Casso:

what reservations are you having about zmuffin?

bc I'm thinking zmuffin might be town here. sure he just owned the fuck out of me in marketplace 3 but there's some things I'd expect scum zmuffin to do that he hasn't done here. I'd rather not elaborate bc I'm butthurt and wanna keep the read secret for future use T_T

yay DOMO is town for sure. that's one of my remaining players sorted :>

[geists]

I'm technically in this game, right?

Glad we killed SC, vig is too dangerous with the haze throughout this game.

Anyways, ive been deliberately not reading because after FEA and Marketplace my patience for huge fast moving games is at an all-time low. That said, I find Gunsmith not suspect in the least. I had a strong feeling this game would be influenced by the MTGS crossover game which had a similar setup(doc+vig+gunsmith vs Jailor+2 goons). So, I dunno. Working through this.

[DOMO]

I think F-16 is giving me most concern right now.

Arthur, can you explain your townread on me?

You benefit literally 0 from the Tammy kill, and in fact, lose a lot.

SAD, I'm interested why this is so. You're saying that he benefits 0 from it, yet here you are insisting that it makes him town. Do you not see why your logic is flawed here? He's benefitted from the tammy kill just because you're towning him for it.

[pieguyn]

Vote: Desperado

Vote has no relation with what DOMO just said, but i find it odd that he was super convinced I was scum yesterday and stopped the push today.

walk me through your scumread on desp plz? afaik you had it on D1, so there had to be more to it than this

also, are you still scumreading Nacho?

why? it was based on a faulty assumption

and

the answer was self evident

can you elaborate on your sakura read

how do you like the chance scum Nacho tried to "conf-town" scum Sakura by pushing a wagon on her to L-1?

[DOMO]

Really liking pie's recent post there.

pedit - referring to #4258

[DOMO]

Actually I was on about #4257

I've just got up and I'm already smoking weed. Happy New Year's Eve everyone!

[DOMO]

second off, back to the comment about the information from a SC lynch. there was plenty of discussion about SC so I'd imagine you should be going back and looking at his wagon and people's stances on him etc. in order to analyze it

Stuffed Crust (11) (LYNCH) - Cephrir, geists, Tammy, Desperado, Bert, Sakura Hana, MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz, pieguyn, KoreanBBQ
Casso the King of Seals (3) - zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic
Bert, Desperado
MafiaSSK, geists, Cephrir
pieguyn, BROseidon, KoreanBBQ, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan
goodmorning, Sakura, DOMO, Generic
Casso, F-16, MC Maraca

especially considering all of your scumreads seem to be on the wagon. yet you forget about said wagon, don't go back to look at how your scumreads jumped on the wagon, and never bring it up again? and instead you ATTACK THE GUY WHO'S SCRUTINIZING HOW YOUR NULL READ HAMMERED?

I like this wagon
vote: arthur

This in particular.

I was gonna sheep pie on this but my vote is already there. Bonus.

[zMuffinMan]

i actually think sad is town. kinda.

[zMuffinMan]

why would scum nacho directly stand against GIF and everyone who was supporting him (most of the player list)?

even if this wasn't well within my epectations of something nacho would do as scum, i don't really get why you think he wouldn't do this?

nacho's push on me bc of my lack of interest in zmuffin makes so much more sense considering he knew zmuffin was scum against me in marketplace 3

btw, marketplace 3 and nacho's reasons for suspecting i'm scum this game are a large part of why i think the way he's approached his read on me here is bullshit

[pieguyn]

explain SAD town

I doubt he'd do that bc it goes against practically everyone in the game. he'd risk getting way too much scrutiny over it. I wouldn't put it past him at all, but given how much he stood by his read and didn't back down, it seems more town motivated than scum motivated. ofc there's the idea that it'd be kind of suicidal to back down as scum after all the effort he put in, but not sure 0.0

can you elaborate plz

[zMuffinMan]

Happy New Year!

explain SAD town

actually sad's more town with a question mark on him. not someone i'm interested in pursuing atm, anyway.

things that made me think town:

- i liked his entrance to the game. everything about it, from the tone of his initial posts, to the way he was forming reads
- isome of his recent responses to the votes on him looked kinda townish
- #4133 (particularly the phrasing of the last sentence) and #4136 (mostly the first response to mafiassk) felt town

things i didn't like:

- the way he parked his vote on you D1, followed by parking his vote on me for a majority of the rest of the day. the one with me irked me a bit because i prodded him about it, and he said he wanted me to do something, and then i never did it and he backed off of me and now i'm apparently on the townier side of his middle-tier reads. i can maybe sorta understand it if something i'd done had changed his mind about me? but he hasn't mentioned me at all, really, so i dunno how that happened
- also didn't like the way he talked about the mafiassk wagon yesterday, as though he was opposed to it and then a sudden, "welp whatever" attitude. plus i didn't like the comment he made about him bussing

i kinda agree with him that the stuffed crust wagon is difficult to analyse because of the way it happened, so i don't have a problem with the fact he hasn't put much effort into analysing it

i do want him to explain why he's so strongly townreading casso and why he's got geists as a scum read, but if you swap geists and casso around, his reads look pretty similar to mine with a few minor differences

I doubt he'd do that bc it goes against practically everyone in the game. he'd risk getting way too much scrutiny over it.

scrutiny over what? being right about SC? i don't get why you think it's unlikely to come from him as scum. like, yeah, OK, nacho could be town, but that's well within the realm of possibility for nacho-scum

[zMuffinMan]

also i dunno if the "elaborate plz" was directed at my comment about marketplace3 but going back to the way nacho has approached his read on me here, the thing i really didn't like about it (and something i couldn't really mention while marketplace was ongoing) is that nacho should really know this isn't how i play scum. he should know i like manipulating and trolling people as scum, and the fact he thinks my lack of engagement is something likely to come from me as scum is fucking bullshit. this is the biggest issue i had with the way he was trying to "sort" me.

plus i don't believe he thought anything he was doing was going to give him an idea of my alignment either way, and the conclusions he comes to based off my posts are just bad.

IF anyone were going to notice this isn't my scum game here, i expected it to be nacho, and the fact he still thinks i'm scum atm is at least a cause for concern even apart from the weak reasoning for it

[Generic]

CATCHUP GO

Yay, let's wagon the townread (at least one of mine) after the null we're trying to wagon claims doc.

Anymore stupid decisions while I'm not there so I can't yell and complain about them in the moment?

afaik on D1 you were all about not lynching SSK bc it wouldn't give any information. wouldn't a lynch on SC give way more information than a lynch on SSK?

DOMO, just checking here but are you going to call everyone who had issues with you suspicious, or are you actually going somewhere with these walls?

What? I like how you focus on my casso push and ignore the bit where I call gesist town.

I was asking a question based on the fact I see you dive in on casso who had suspicions of you and then zmuffins who made a comment about you.

I asked whether you were going somewhere with it or just gonna post another wall with another player named for suspicion for uttering your name in a negative light.

But feel free to jump on the defensive and a respond with something irrelevant to what I asked.

Oh, and good for you that you think geists is town for not killing you in the night... Is that a legitimate reason around here?

I think posts like this are what pinged in generic vs. DOMO. bc it felt p clear to me what DOMO was doing (refuting generic's point with the geists read, then generic said it was irrelevant) and I felt generic was twisting DOMO's words aroudn. but looking at the rest of the argument I don't think that's what happened, or if it was it was unintentional

My apologies for calling you a moron DOMO.

unvote

I don't mind you voting me if you think I'm scummy generic, don't feel compelled to unvote to keep things civil.

the way this argument ended felt town as shit on both sides. Generic's outburst and subsequent backoff felt town as fuck and I get where he was coming from with his arguments. that with F-16's meta read later on gives me a solid townread on him. same thing with DOMO. the way they worked out how it was a misunderstanding felt so town I almost cried =w=

pieguyn: I liked his entry posts but he keeps doing weird things, like blowing up which seems really out of character in between calm posts. Tone is too cold for my tastes.

so you think it's weird when I make an emotional post, but when I make logical posts it's also weird bc the tone is too cold?

Hmm it can't be possible that the whole scumteam (minus nacho) is jumping on my wagon can it.

Hmmm.

I know you pushed on me for OMGUS'ing everyone who was pushing on me. why are you doing the same thing here? 0.0

looking back on it, why was my reaction one of the most boringest reactions in the world? I've seen scum hide behind the "reaction test" excuse too many times. in a game that just finished, scum tried to quickhammer, FAILED, wrote it off as a reaction test and no one caught it. although it was probably bc town was too apathetic to catch it, but the idea still holds

wow your push on me really was opportunistic as fuck. it doesn't help that your read on me seems to be derived from everyone else's read on me at that time. you townread me after your initial push and when people started scumreading me again you moved me lower

Bert, Desperado
MafiaSSK, geists, Cephrir
pieguyn, BROseidon, KoreanBBQ, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan
goodmorning, Sakura, DOMO, Generic
Casso, F-16, MC Maraca

what the fuck?

first off, I thought SSK was null. how did he go from null to null-scum?

second off, back to the comment about the information from a SC lynch. there was plenty of discussion about SC so I'd imagine you should be going back and looking at his wagon and people's stances on him etc. in order to analyze it

Stuffed Crust (11) (LYNCH) - Cephrir, geists, Tammy, Desperado, Bert, Sakura Hana, MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz, pieguyn, KoreanBBQ
Casso the King of Seals (3) - zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic

Bert

,

Desperado

MafiaSSK

,

geists

,

Cephrir

pieguyn

, BROseidon,

KoreanBBQ

,

Norlkaz

, zMuffinMan
goodmorning,

Sakura

, DOMO, Generic
Casso,

F-16

, MC Maraca

especially considering all of your scumreads seem to be on the wagon. yet you forget about said wagon, don't go back to look at how your scumreads jumped on the wagon, and never bring it up again? and instead you ATTACK THE GUY WHO'S SCRUTINIZING HOW YOUR NULL READ HAMMERED?

I like this wagon

vote: arthur

Can anyone remind me why MC Maraca claimed?

bc they have daychat, and so they think scum probably has daychat and they want everyone to know this

I like this and its a convincing case for your vote but I will point out that if you put SADs list of suspects against the SC wagon (which you did) you will notice the vast majority sit in that top two tiers where he has already stated are his main suspects.

What I agree with though is its been pretty empty in the analysis, because he has F16 as the only one from that wagon in his top town picks, and sakura hana in tier two (that's the cool tier btw, we have a bit of edge to us in tier two )

Now I can easily speculate why these two are excempt from suspicion but I want SADs reasons and his thoughts on their connection to the SC wagon. If we are gonna be doing wagon analysis (since he took such exception to me doing so with KBBQ) lets have that conversation.

On other business, I love how geists now has this more cinical and carefree edge to their posts since getting effectively a cop clear. You can call it being butthurt if you like, unless you are a scum cop (which btw I find rather stupid logic to have been thrown out this early in the bloody game) you guys represent the first one I know I now have read wrong

[DOMO]

I like muffin's wall there too. That's two of my iffy reads who have started to look town. This makes me happy.

[DOMO]

Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - ?
MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) - town
F-16_Fighting_Falcon - town
Generic - town
Bert - town
MafiaSSK - town
pieguyn - town
BROseidon - ?
Norlkaz - ?
KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - town
goodmorning - ?
Sakura Hana - ?
Ser Arthur Dayne - ?
zMuffinMan - town
DOMO - mvp
Cephrir - ?
Desperado - town

so...

casso bro nork sad ceph, and there's still gm and sakura who I'm yet to sort but others seem to be towning.

[DOMO]

Oh yeah I wasn't convinced abut desperado. And F-16 I intend to metadive after the new year festivites are over.

[Generic]

Has anyone in this game seen an F16 scum game? I ask because I have seen him panic under pressure as town, I have that as the basis for my town read on him because the quizmaster play and the endless analysis without actually going anywhere is any alignment because its easily faked.

So I want to know if im being misguided assuming this to be his town game based on the only example I have.