NY 168: (GAME OVER) The Mod is Dead, Fire and Ice Edition

[Matias]

Vote: Aptil

It was a crappy hammer.

Now, who had Maxous pegged as scum day1?

Also, Merry belated Christmas to everyone!!

I did, and I'm not sure if I was the only one?

[Garmr]

So Tso you see nothing wrong with hammer? I'm extremely frustrated at that hammer I felt I had found genuine scum and The hammer seemed opportunistic as I had just built momentum on JKLM. It felt like all my reads were pissed on and then shoved down my fucking throat.

What reads were that? Just JKLM?

Trying to catch up and I figured I start with your reads.

By the way, I missed the second half of day 1 due to life, sickness, random shit, so I'll need help coming back from the dead here

Jklm,Yuni and I was starting to like Dry fit at the end even through I pegged him as scummy at first.

[Matias]

Yuni, mastin were also on Maxous.

EDIT: I mean, what scum reads did you have other than JKLM at the end of Day 1?

[Garmr]

Scum reads around the end of day 1 other than Jklm- Yuni,toomai,Tso (Gut his hard to read through),Pereginge V,aptil

Well I kinda forgot about aptil existence around the end of day 1 until he hammered. That isn't a good sign.

[aptil]

Here is my reasoning for the vote at that time : Yuni put dry on L-1 in this post .#443 . After that Dry did have his say in #447 . Nothing happened after this for a day . To me it looked like now that we had reached a l-1 the scum were taking it slow and looking to see jump on someone at this point . So it just made him more scummy to me personally . Hence the hammer .
If people on the wagon did not want to get Dry get lynched there was enough time between him going to l-1 and getting lynched to get off that wagon . Do not blame this on site issues as well because most of you came to post very quickly after the wagon was reached .
Obviously i was going to explain these things from my side once the day started but looking at people voting me like that i just think this was decided before and they just wanted town to get on the wagon soon . My guess is most of the scumteam will be found in the people posting after the lynch on day1 and people jumping to vote for me day2 .

[Matias]

Vote: Yuni

How about this instead then

I don't really like the quickwagon on you at any rate, and I've learned a lot of your game style from the C9++ that we played

[Matias]

Vote: Aptil

It was a crappy hammer.

Now, who had Maxous pegged as scum day1?

Also, Merry belated Christmas to everyone!!

Why are crappy hammers scummy?

Do you really think ice-scum announced their Maxous scumreads and then murdered him? That doesn't seem like

good

multiscum play to me.

Vote: Peregrine

@ Bulb: Which team is Mastin on?

Food for thought: they don't have to be "good".

[aptil]

We need to go on the attack and not be reflexively defensive.

How is voting for a terrible hammer not going "on the attack"?

VOTE: Aptil, and he better give me a good reason why he's inno if he wants to change my vote

I'll wait until he says something.

Unvote

You wait until he says something before you unvote.

Vote: aptil

This post is the worst of the lot . He not only votes me but also has other people ready to blame at .
VOTE: Toomai .

[Bulbazak]

@ Bulb: Which team is Mastin on?

No clue. I'd probably have to reread him in ISO. I just know that this is not town Mastin posting. There's a lot of double talk from him, where he's giving himself outs, and he's playing it way too safe, which I think is due to this being a multi-scum game.

@Aptil: There was still no excuse for that quicklynch. You should have still given intent, as well as more time, before you hammered. We were nowhere near deadline, so really, that hammer of yours was inexcusable.

[Desperado]

@ Matias: True. But I always save "the scum are playing like shit" for last.

@ Aptil: I disagree completely, Toomai's was the only vote I really liked on you. You see him blaming others, I see him calling Yuni out for not having any conviction.

@ Bulb: What games are you using to base your metaread?

[Yiley]

We need to go on the attack and not be reflexively defensive.

How is voting for a terrible hammer not going "on the attack"?

VOTE: Aptil, and he better give me a good reason why he's inno if he wants to change my vote

I'll wait until he says something.

Unvote

You wait until he says something before you unvote.

Vote: aptil

It is being reflexively defensive. Instead of looking for good legitimate scumreads, people are being reflexive and jumping on to a wagon with little to no reasoning and bad reasoning if any.
VOTE: toomai

Post Fixed, you'd managed to Disable BBCode so formatting when screwy ~JS

[PeregrineV]

Why are crappy hammers scummy?

They are not, always. It depends on how it's done.

Do you really think ice-scum announced their Maxous scumreads and then murdered him? That doesn't seem like good multiscum play to me.

Well, I think a player found Maxous scummy, and said it in the thread. Probably only once, maybe twice at the most. When they realized they couldn't get him lynched, they shut up, because they then figured they would NK him instead.
Granted, this is only speculation, and maybe it was an Ice member that Maxous called scum instead. But, it's a criteria to look for.

[YuniChikako]

We need to go on the attack and not be reflexively defensive.

How is voting for a terrible hammer not going "on the attack"?

VOTE: Aptil, and he better give me a good reason why he's inno if he wants to change my vote

I'll wait until he says something.

Unvote

You wait until he says something before you unvote.

Inno until convincingly guilty. Right now, aptil isn't convincingly guilty, unless he's a very very silly maf, or attempting wifom.
---

Yiley is scummy. "Hey guys, don't worry about the hammer, we really need to go on the attack and not be so defensive!!!" /does nothing

I definitely don't think that's scummy. It's a "get your shiz together" post, to keep us all from doing something very silly.

[ElectricSavages]

Votecount 2.2

0

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

Yunichikawowwow [4]

- Bulbazak, Garmr, Toomai, PeregrineV,

Toomai [2]

- aptil, Yiley

Bulbazak [1]

- mastin2

Yunichikawowwow [1]

- Matias

Not Voting [8]

- NJAC, Desperado, T S O, OhGodMyLife, PeregrineV, JKLM, Yunichikawowwow, evilpacman18, RachMarie, Slandaar

With 16 alive, it takes

9[/i]

votes to lynch.

Deadline on 9^th January 2014 at 1900 GMT ((expired on 2014-01-09 19:00:00))

[Slandaar]

TSO you have some explaining to do.

[Yiley]

Why ere all my codes messed up. What did I Do wrong?

[evilpacman18]

Pacman because he laughably suggested I was white knighting in a multi-ball game (hes scum not on Dry's team and assumes I am not hence white knight - it is the only way to come to that conclusion)

I meant to ask, how do you define white knight?

[evilpacman18]

aptil is scum probably, especially with that willingness to OMGUS and I didn't like him yesterday anyway. Still wanna see Slandaar and JKLM and get some of my null reads headed in a direction before putting a vote down though.

[Toomai]

It is being reflexively defensive. Instead of looking for good legitimate scumreads, people are being reflexive and jumping on to a wagon with little to no reasoning and bad reasoning if any.
VOTE: toomai

So now explain how that vote of yours is not reflexive and doesn't have little reasoning.

[Yiley]

Your poor reasoning is what I'm attacking here

[Slandaar]

Pacman because he laughably suggested I was white knighting in a multi-ball game (hes scum not on Dry's team and assumes I am not hence white knight - it is the only way to come to that conclusion)

I meant to ask, how do you define white knight?

Well lets look at this another way; my definition doesn't matter because white knighting only works when the defendant is town. I cannot know this in multiball (know) this means I read the situation correctly and acted accordingly In a pro-town manner. This apparently means you think I am scum but why wouldn't I act in a pro-town fashion as town? I am curious.

I think you also meant to say what I was avoiding posting my opinion on.

[T S O]

Well. No reason given from Aptil to vote Dry-fit, this is certainly interesting. TSO, I'd like to know why you seem to dismiss that hammer. Possible maf partner noted.
Oh my gosh Maxous

was

maf. I feel so happy.

VOTE: Aptil, and he better give me a good reason why he's inno if he wants to change my vote

.

Hello Ice Scum.

I agree, but I was townreading YC. Hmm.

[Slandaar]

TSO will you be explaining why you voted Dry yesterday?

Let us assume not.

Why not?

[T S O]

VOTE: YuniChikako

I'm excited to see in the next vote count if the mods are serious about only counting votes with vote tags.

Shameless wagon-hopping RVS vote screams of opportunism.

Yuni's response to her wagon looked townish.

Unvote.

About mastin's townslip: I see it, but it's not the kind of thing I put a ton of stock in. Calling a townslip on yourself is always questionable as well.

Maxous seems town to me based on the last game I played with him but not a super strong read.

No one looks particularly scummy at the moment but I can see Toomai as scum.

Vote: Toomai.

Slides away from the wagon with vague reasoning. Gives vague reads and weakens them using words like "seems". Barely has any reads.

Dry-fit is a somewhat-strong scumread, but not nearly as strong as I'd prefer him to be.

Yeah I'm feeling off my game in this on so far. Are you going to explain your read on me like you said you would? And why do you want me to be a strong scumread? Have something against me?

I'm not really liking Yiley right now. Didn't follow up on his Yuni vote and hasn't brought any other scumreads to the table.

Matias' attack on the Yuni wagon doesn't feel quite right either.

More vague reads, more vague reasoning, more weakening of scumreads, more not following up on them.

Starting to see a pattern here?

I would like mastin to explain his read on me at some point.

Don't like apologizing for looking scummy, don't like buddying Mastin, and I really don't like the hypocritical, voteless mudsling on Yiley.

It doesn't even end with looking scummy. I haven't gotten any scumreads better than marginal and only a couple townreads I would consider solid.
I don't see how my post is buddying mastin.
I should point out that I've made the case that being hypocritical can be legitimate multiple times as town.

Being hypocritical isn't scummy, therefore my hypocrisy is okay.

Just because something isn't scummy doesn't mean it's right.

In the same vein, how can anyone instantly believe that Yuni had scum motivation behind posting her first post?

Because it wasn't a good reason to suspect Slandaar. It's possible for a read like that to come from a townie with a playstyle issue, but it was something that is likely to come from scum. You may have seen things differently, but I've got news for you. Not everyone sees things the same way you do.

You're allegedly town and you don't feel comfortable putting forth any scumreads but are voting someone for doing the same. If anything, Yiley's apparent difficulty in acquiring scumreads be a towntell to town-you who is having difficulty acquiring townreads.

Did you read the links explaining my views about hypocrisy, or are you not interested in actually determining my alignment?

If anyone can convince me of:

-Maxous town
-Yiley scum

good luck and I will be impressed.

Maxous' play looks different from when I last played with him in Hunter X Hunter mafia where he was scum. He was playing a much more passive game there. Plus he has his vote in a good place on Toomai. I don't expect this to convince you but that's my view on him.

Actually you might be right about Yiley. 245 feels like it's coming from town.

Also if one of TSO or mastin is scum I think the other is based on post 167 I didn't think TSO's was much of a townslip.

This post is filled with poor reasoning, I'm not going through it all.

I have no interest in starting a necromancy war when his flip completely suits your agenda. I get you've been lining me up since d1, but here isn't where you'll do it.

[NJAC]

Ok. It took more than expected but I finally finished reading. I agree with Rach that there's a lot of stuff from you here to read (and reread to assimilate). I also think I have to do some ISOs to get proper reads, but I'll tell you that regarding Yuni's early wagon and Dry's, I didn't like either of them. The clue to solve this is there though, together with the analysis of JKLM wagon I guess, and the flips.

BTW: this is my first multiscum game so I'm still trying to understand if typical scumhunting works or not. I also have the impression that multiscum games are a bit easier for us the town, I mean someone (mastin IIRC) mentioned a game where town won because the scum groups killed each other. So that should give us some advantage because scum are trying to get rid of each other. Am I right? Of course I understand there's a balance so this is not going to be that easy, but at least the ice group already helped us to get rid of one scum.

Also, I'm still wondering if Aptil's blatant hammer makes sense as scum, because I suppose scum has to be more careful so would think it twice before hammering like that. But I can also imagine scumAptil defending a scumpartner from becoming a counterwagon, and after hammering making his defense with the WIFOM argument of: "scum wouldn't hammer like that". I suppose I must reread and ISO a bit to solve this, but Dry didn't look that scummy IMO, especially in the end of D1, when Aptil hammered, as some of you pointed out. Thoughts anyone?

Finally (and maybe stating the obvious), assuming three scum per group (still wondering how you reached to that conclusion), bussing is something scum would hardly avoid in the first days (if not in the whole game), right? So, people who were pushing Maxeous are clearly not fire, especially Yuni, who I'm also reading as town.

This being a catch up post. I'll try some ISOs later to get better reads.