Mini 416 - AM Mafia - Game Over D:

[massive_goonery]

----6:07:02 AM - Vote Count-----

“Don't wake me for the end of the world unless it has very good special effects” ~ Roger Zelazny

massive_goonery - 5 - (Ripley, Thestatusquo, PBuG, Sailor Jerry, Nai)
IH - 2 - (CoG888, Panzerjager)
PBuG - 1 - (massive_goonery)
Elias_the_thief - 1 - (IH)

Not voting - 3 - ( trestain, bird1111, Elias_the_thief )
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then, finally, you go on to vote someone because of anti bandwagoning?

Vote: PBuG

for going after my neck for bandwagoning when I put Nai at lynch minus 4 (after two unvotes!). That's anti-bandwagoning. And for glossing over his scumbuddy friend

FoS: Panzerjager

for having "substantial reasoning" when he pretty much restated my reasons for voting Nai in the first place (less eloquently, I might add).

PBuG claimed to vote based on my joining of the bandwagon on Nai. Voting after multiple unvotes is the opposite of bandwagoning, hence "anti-bandwagoning".

It appears that most everyone is against me so here goes:

I am a Cell Phone. I have a one-shot vig and I win on the side of work. At this point, I think it goes without saying that I will let the town choose my vigkill (if i survive the day).

[Elias_the_thief]

im not sure where i stand on that claim. it's hard to test right now, with no confirmed scum. and MG, i wasnt questioning the meaning of anti bandwagoning, I was questioning the validity of it as a reason to vote.

[TBuG]

I'm currently looking at a scum group of CoG, Goonery and Panzer. Three people who think that a very well-built case is absolute fluff. That's rather coincidental.

I'm agreeing with this.

goonery, I'm hesitant to believe you for several reasons. I'm not sure whether or not I'll believe that because of my own role, because it's possible for the two of us to coexist, but not probable. For now, I'll keep my vote on you.

[massive_goonery]

im not sure where i stand on that claim. it's hard to test right now, with no confirmed scum. and MG, i wasnt questioning the meaning of anti bandwagoning, I was questioning the validity of it as a reason to vote.

I'm not sure if you're getting what I'm saying. I'm saying that PBuG accused me of bandwagoning when I obviously was doing no such thing. Joining a bandwagon can be percieved as scummy because it's a way to accomplish pro-mafia goals while staying out of the spotlight. What I did in my original vote for Nai was exactly the opposite; I squarely jumped into focus.

The early response to my claim appears lukewarm, so it appears I'm toast one way or another. I'm trying to parse PBuG's motives for his semi-claim. But the possibilities 1) if he is scum - why is he standing out, he's an obvious day 2 lynch when I go, 2) if he's a townie with a valid claim - any claim makes him a primo night target. Beats me. Are there SK's in minis?

The above has me stumped at the moment, so

unvote, vote: Panzerjager

for general wishy-washy behavior.

[TBuG]

Yes, there are SKs in minis. You're assuming that I'm claiming vig, though.

[PJ.]

Nai, where do I say the case is based on Fluff? I in no way have endorsed M_G, but have endorsed CoG due to liking his view on things, except for the fluff bit.


About MG posting, I simply did not like why he voted for Nai and don't agree that my logic was along the same lines as him. Are logic was very different and attacked different parts of the post, as has been point out by Elias I believe. Currently, I like the explanation given by Elias and am going to FoS MG later in this post.

Why are you voting me MG? If you are trying make a connection between us your doing a good job. And I don't mind since you happen to be a one shot vig. I also don't believe the town should direct the vig, but will throw in my two cents if it comes down to that.

On this current incident with PBuG and the MG claim. I don't think MG is looking at the right thing about PBuG. I don't believe he subclaimed vig, I believe PBuG just said he was the House Telephone. I'm sure we all have house phones at are homes, so I'm going to give my take on it. It doesn't seem to me that the Home Phone is a work related object because it you can call in sick and if you don't not run your buisness from your house(which our "owner" does not) it is not used for work. It is not sleep because it rings and can wake him up interupting his sleep. The reason I believe the cell phone is because he can use his cell phone for work and bring it to work. The one shot works because if we was going to call in sick he could simply turn off the cell phone. House phone, to me at least, sounds like a neutral. Take this for what you will. Remember that mods around here(MS) tend to make games unbreakable by mass claim. I'm not going to vote PBuG but I would like a response, not a claim necessarily but a little explanation.


To sum this up,

Unvote, FoS:MG and PBuG

[Thestatusquo]

I'm still up for a MG lynch. I am not in favor of PG lynch.

[Nai]

Okay, I see several things wrong with this picture right now.

A.) That claim of M_Gs doesn't sit right with me. If he thought I was scum, so sure I was scum, why jump on a fading bandwagon? He can one-shot me in the night and not bring this much heat on himself. I also don't trust the first person to bring up SK in a game, and I think there's a good chance he might be an SK using a one-shot vig claim to keep himself alive. Even the 'let the town choose' bit doesn't save him, because an SK doesn't HAVE to kill anyone unless he wants to. He can kill tonight, 'prove' he's town, and then sit still for a couple of game days until he's got a good chance of winning.

B.) I'm also very against Panzer right now. This has several reasons.

I.) Just because I said you were scum with two others doesn't mean you have to support those two others. Supporting both of the others would be suicide for scum. However, each of you three supported a lynch on me based on absolute craplogic. You've supported one of the other two, and are neutral to the third. You also lurk like hell and vote-hop. You seem to have to question hostility against M_G even though the case is obvious to anyone that's been reading. You are VERY scummy.

II.) Nowhere did PBug make ANY hint towards "House Telephone". All he said was that it would be hard for their roles to coexist. He didn't hint at a name or an ability. He COULD be hinting at a name OR an ability. He could be anything from a vig himself to an answering machine. In addition, even if he was a telephone, a telephone's ring can wake you up when you're sleeping. Or give you a call from your boss to say you need to be in there, either now or for extra hours. A telephone can swing both ways, and in this case the "Calling in sick" seems a bit of stretch when compared to my role and flavor.

III.) Panzer is again giving excuses for MG. "Turn off the cellphone when calling in sick" is VERY thin to me.

IIII.) And, lastly, at the end of that post, Panzer fishes for information from PBuG. There's an excellent case against MG right now (better than any case currently in the game), and yet Panzer is trying to turn the tide on PBuG and fish for information with absolutely nothing behind the vote.

C.) And there's also the recent unvote from MG to go to Panzer. This is only after I brought up Panzer's wishy-washy behavior, and after the claim. The statement before the vote is "My claim is still lukewarm", as if the claim is going to save him outright. But, since it's not, he's going to vote Panzer to make himself seem more townie.

Right now, I don't really care who gets lynched between Panzer and MG. But I know which one has more votes.

[Thestatusquo]

I really wish that I could make a post like that one....

[Ripley]

I havent played in a game that had an SK before, but if we have one in this game I imagine it would belong to one of the "other alignments" we were told might exist. And so, neither Work nor Sleep, and I think a Cell Phone fits very well with that, the phone ringing could wake him (so Anti Sleep) and the information in the call could cause him to have to change his plans for the day (so Anti Work). And in addition PBug says he thinks it improbable that m_g would have the role he described, because of his own role. I'm inclined to believe PBug on this, and so on the whole I think there's a high chancd massive_goonery has lied about his role.

[Thestatusquo]

I think ur stating the obvious, without much insight.

[Nai]

TSQ, you'll just have to make your points rather concise, and just do one point per post. Then we can question you on them so you can elaborate in ways that help us.

[Thestatusquo]

I have been doing that, with multiple posting strings

[Thestatusquo]

Does anyone else have comments about R's last post???

[IH]

I have one about Ripley.

What was the point of bringing up the alignments question? How does that help..... at all?

[TBuG]

Holy SHIT, Panzer.

Unvote, vote: Panzer

Fishing, fishing, fishing. That was so hideously obvious. HAY, LET'S MAKE PBUG CLAIM AND ASSUME THINGS ABOUT HIS ROLE.

[CoG888]

I made a post a biut ago, but the boardhad a CPU error and my post got swallowed up, or something...

I think I said that we should look closely at Ripley if MG turns up scum, as it appears he may be distancing himself from MG

I also said that TSQ is looking very pro-work to me.

[PJ.]

Fine, don't make a comment. I'm fine with that. I was giving my analysis and hoping for some kind of non-claim comment. I see that is impossible and from BuG's reaction I believe I was pretty close. For all I know/care both you and MG are neutral characters due to the dispute of telephones in general.

[TBuG]

...I'm upset that you're fishing, therefore you speak truthery? NAY, I SAY! TAKE HIM TO THE GALLOWS! (Or noose.)

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm not really understanding all of the guessing at purposes of various household objects and trying to discern alignment from them. I dont think any of us will have the same perspective, on what would logically be work or sleep in terms of telephones, as the mod would have on it, and I dont think talk like that is getting us anywhere.
but i went through and did a reread. Not much really jumped out at me besides what I outlined in my case for MG. but this one sequence of posts caught my eye.

I think claims on Day 1 are far more likely to help scum than to expose them. When TSQ said that early claims were good I actually thought he must be joking, though with my record of detecting wit from that quarter, he was probably dead serious this time.

I'm keeping my original random vote on massive_goonery, for the reasons given by PBug in Post 46. Also, in most games I've played the high profile players over the first few pages - equivalent to TSQ and Nai in this game - have turned out to be town.

TSQ was fishing for reactions. MG is scum.

Vote: MassG

Gasp. You expect me to switch now, don't you. You know what, I think I will.

Unvote, vote: massive_goonery

TSQ, often the things you do don't make sense until you explain them. I've seen someone else bandwagon that quickly fishing for reactions, too, and it helped catch the SK.

to me it seemed that TSQ was poking fun at ripleys post, in which he basically was saying that TSQ was fishing for reactions, so he would keep his vote on MG. of course my interpretation could be wrong.
but assuming that it was correct, im kind of disturbed at how quickly pbug changed his vote on something like that.

anyways, back to current game status. as far as lynching goes, i still find MG to be the most scummy. personally, i dont believe that panzer has a case against bug since its based on hypothetical guesses of the mods perceptions. if we all have different opinions on whether telephone would be work or sleep, then the mod could have a different opinion too. i also feel that panzer, though suspiciously fishing for a claim, is not suspicious enough to be lynched currently. im just more inclined to believe that MG is scum. I think our the best move today would still be a lynch of MG, and hope for more info tomorrow.
and that's my two cents.

[TBuG]

TSQ was talking about himself, not poking fun. It explained his actions and persuaded me not to have my vote on him, and choice #2 was MG.

[Nai]

I still think that MG is the best choice, with Panzer in close second due to his recent two posts. One was fishing, the other was saying that he's fine with no comment and that he was fishing. He also tries to cover himself now by saying BOTH might be neutral.

MG today, Panzer tomorrow. How 'bout it?

Also, did anyone notice we gained :07 on the clock?

[Nai]

EBWODP: Which coincides with the 7 pages we've achieved. This may be because I'm playing another game with a time limit, but I think we might have a time limit here, and roles that gain abilities based on the time.

[Elias_the_thief]

i'm not sold on panzers guilt just yet, though i admit the fishing looks suspicious. in my opinion, we should stick to the MG lynch today, and worry about tomorrow when it's tomorrow. that being said, how many votes does it take to lynch? the mod didnt post it, so i dont feel comfortable placing a vote when I dont know. But are we in agreement about a MG lynch (except obviously MG)?

[TBuG]

Okay, sure, Goonery then Panzer.

Unvote, Vote massive_goonery

Personally, I'd like CoG after.