NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Sakura Hana]

Town: pieguyn, Maracabd, geists, Casso, goodmorning.
Null: Everyone else.
No scumreads.

[Empire]

Day 1, Votecount 42

Stuffed Crust (4)

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KoreanBBQ, Sakura Hana, DOMO, Desperado

Casso the King of Seals (3)

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zMuffinMan, goodmorning, pieguyn

zMuffinMan (2)

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Casso the King of Seals, Ser Arthur Dayne

MC Maraca (2)

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Tammy, F-16_Fighting_Falcon

pieguyn (1)

-

MC Maraca

Cephrir (1)

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geists

DOMO (1)

-

BROseidon

KoreanBBQ (1)

-

roflcopter

Desperado (1)

-

Stuffed Crust

Not Voting (4)

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Brian Skies, MafiaSSK, Cephrir, Generic

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch! Deadline is on December 20th at 3:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-12-20 16:44:27)

Mod Notes

-

Casso the King of Seals is V/LA until the 22nd. Varsoon head of Stuffed Crust V/LA until January 25th. Cephrir is V/LA until the 22nd. DOMO is V/LA for 48 hours.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, calling it "fanning the flames" is a bit unfair considering you specifically asked for my reasons for pushing MC.

Sakura, can you explain your townreads on Maracabd, Casso, and Goodmorning?

[Sakura Hana]

Maracabd because i feels like Town Mara, and Cabd's gambit feels like Town Cabd, Casso considering the way Nacho/Thor have been interacting and pushing people, goodmorning is mostly gut.

[Sakura Hana]

Why didnt you ask for my townread on pieguy?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I was most curious about those 4 since I am not townreading any of them.

[Sakura Hana]

Except you asked me for 3, oh well mayb i misinterpreted the post you had made before i came back.

[geists]

Glad we agree on Pieguyn. I am trying to stay away from conflict as well after my battle with Bulb in that Micro game. My scumread on Maraca has nothing to do with any conflicts I might have with them although I am annoyed by their stunt which may have influenced my read. I'll rethink that issue although I still find them scummier than Stuffed and Pie. I am having trouble seeing who would be a better lynch today. What are your thoughts on who should be lynched today?

My vote is on Ceph.

Also, calling it "fanning the flames" is a bit unfair considering you specifically asked for my reasons for pushing MC.

At the very least it was distinctly uncharitable.

@Nacho

We talked about the differences in Cabd's town and scum gambits a few games back. What are your thoughts about his RVS-phase breadcrumbs from that perspective?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

My vote is on Ceph.

Can you talk me through your scumread on Ceph? I read through an ISO where he was scum and am in the process of doing one where he was town. I think it would help if I get a springboard to base my meta-analysis of him.

At the very least it was distinctly uncharitable.

I found their gambit overall harmful. I am saying it like it is.

[pieguyn]

I know Muffin p much squeaked by you in Touhou bc of a completely unexpected extra scumkill and I'm expecting you to be ready to get him back, so I'm watching your interactions with him;

ftfy <3

I blame a combination of laziness and being overwhelmed with so many people. plus (I assume it was Thor) Thor had said his entrance looked slightly town and I was a bit confused about who was reading who as what

I'll note that I didn't even come close to voting you, was just poking at you a bit: why did you feel that I wasn't trying to sort you?

huh I thought that was Thor. mostly because of "Pie guy", I've never seen you say my name like that @_@

bc that post came

after Thor (?) voted me

and I thought the post was by Thor. however, it makes a bit more sense if it was Thor who voted me and that post was from you. it seems like it could be another case of hydra dissonance, but I'm not letting you off the hook for that. it seems way too easy for scum to play that card and I still think Thor is scum

You'll find this is Thor's usual game and it is a large part of the reason of why he is more likely to succeed as scum.

so Thor always misreps, discredits, and uses scare tactics to get people lynched? like I know some people are more aggressive but what he did makes sense from a scum motivation and idk what town motivation he could have behind all that.

also, the "aggression" wasn't all there was to it - there were some subtleties that made me think he was trying to cover up his true intent. the discrediting with the 1v1 and his implication that there was nothing left to do today sold this point for me. I'd almost like to say the 1v1 was a scumslip bc it implies we're opposite alignments but that's kinda meh

[pieguyn]

Casso considering the way Nacho/Thor have been interacting and pushing people

go back read my case on Thor try again

especially how subtle he was about some of it, indicating he's trying to cover up his true intent. even if Thor is an aggressive player, I don't see the town motivation for half the shit he did 0.0

@geists:

explain Casso town plz. also, do you think a Casso + Ceph team makes sense in the context of Ceph's interactions with SC way back when? it looked like he was defending Casso and then when I asked he claimed he wasn't. then when I showed examples of him defending Casso he started giving weird responses and then .......wait

hold on a second

[pieguyn]

WARNING: QUOTEWALL

I highly suggest you read it tho cause either it's p telling or I'm insane

Spoiler:

it's not the tunneling, it's how you were defending all the other possible lynch options, and acting like varsoon was the only one up for lynch. I guess that could be tunneling but I don't consider defending everyone else on top of that to fall under the definition of tunneling

it's not the tunneling, it's how you were defending all the other possible lynch options, and acting like varsoon was the only one up for lynch. I guess that could be tunneling but I don't consider defending everyone else on top of that to fall under the definition of tunneling

All one of them?

here I start poking at Cephrir. it seems like he was defending everyone but SC, and also seems like he's defending Thor while scumreading him

@ Maraca, in hindsight I don't like your push on Tammy. You are presenting the goal as pro-town (Tammy looks obvtown after your push). But Tammy looks obvtown in many games even when not accused of being scum. The only thing your push did was discourage a competent town player from posting much which subtly eliminates a threat without having to nightkill her just by breaking her. Tammy is right that her FOS on you would likely be taken less seriously because you upset her and you come out looking good from the exchange for having done this "pro-town" thing of making Tammy look obvtown. Your push looks like it served a scum wincon much more than a town one. I miss Tammy's contributions to the game (she is the only one I have a mutual townread on so probably the only one I can work with at this point) and I am not happy with it. Your read on Rofl makes no sense. How does Rofl look town?

I seriously doubt their intentions were this nefarious even if they're scum.

All one of them?

that's a blatant fucking lie. I'm almost positive you defended Casso at some point

And this is scummy because:
______________________

Cephrir, Casso, SC scumteam of the year 2013?

with this in mind:

[also I did acknowledge Casso as an option several times]

why would you suddenly defend someone who you'd be fine with lynching? I don't understand 0.0

Because I didn't suddenly defend them. That post was an "I don't get what your point is" not an "I disagree". It was then suitably explained.

here he denies defending Casso

get you, but IMO it seems odd that you'd be that inquisitive about smth someone you were townreading said. especially when it's implicating someone you'd be ok with lynching. it doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would usually focus on. it seems weird for me 0.0

looking through your ISO, it wasn't just that post. there's another case of it here

I see what you're saying but personally eh.

this seems like a more blatant defense - from what I can see, you're saying what DOMO pointed out was explicitly not scummy. can you explain plz

I'm not sure exactly how to put this, but it seems like you think a townie's thoughts have to all be consistent and they would never undercut their own established viewpoint in the slightest, because they want their points to carry more weight? So like, if I thought a suspect of mine did something townie for instance, I'm supposed to not point it out for fear of damaging my own case? And that isn't how I work.

Also, I wouldn't say the baove post counts as defensive, it's just "that point isn't something I want to vote on" but your mileage may vary

here I show a way more blatant example of Cephrir defending Casso and push harder. he strawmans my statement into the first statement, rather than addressing it directly, when it wouldn't be that hard to just say "that's not how I roll"

Went back to look at 66+67 and the Desp vote.
That looks really skeevy and Desp fails to address Stuffed's pretty excellent counter of Desp's "case"

Also looked at Pie's vote, it's more boring to me, kind of a mush mouth hop on at worst and at best.

Let's lynch one of them, I don't recall Nacho declaring either of their meta's sacrosanct yet.

THEN TWO POSTS LATER CASSO COMES IN AND ACCUSES ME

@Ceph - I find you scummy and your wagon on Stuffed bad. Please justify him being scum. Go, go, go!

when he was apparently scumreading Cephrir the whole time

I feel like that was a cruel game to make me iso someone for no purpose.

What's your read on Desp and the Stuffed Crust wagon right now?
Also a read on Ceph.

Stuff Crust is town unless GiF tells me otherwise.

Desp I am leaning town on for sort of contra-meta reasons.

Ceph I'm doing a reset on, but I think I'll still settle on town.

pieguyn is actually worrying me some.

I'm working on a reads list. After Nati and I have a chance to go through it in detail, one of us will post it.

pieguyn is actually worrying me some.

Unvote: Korean BBQ
Vote: pieguy

THEN STARTS THE WAGON ON ME, DESPITE THE FACT THAT I'M POKING AT HIS SCUMREAD. AND OH LOOK HIS VOTE WASN'T EVEN ON CEPHRIR

You didn't ask, but my case is 'eh, why not?'

with the reason "eh, why not?"? WTF

I think I am beginning to agree with this, his questioning of me felt kind of robotic

AND THEN CEPHRIR COMES IN AND POSTURES FOR A JUMP ON MY WAGON

so yeah - as soon as I start poking around and making Cephrir all antsy in comes Thor with the wagon on me, and sure enough Cephrir is all of a sudden magically fine with jumping on there with a sketchy reason, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE HAD ME IN HIS TOWNPILE BEFORE

discuss?

[MC Maraca]

So my gambit expired a shitton of pages ago, and F-16 chooses to vote me over it..... now that tammy is voting me and others have expressed some sort of interest? Yawn.

[MC Maraca]

Oh also thank you for towning pie.

UNVOTE:

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Pie, I'll wait for Cephrir to answer to that. I specifically want to know why the switch from Pie-town to hopping onto the wagon.

Right now, I am most comfortable with Tammy, Pie, and Stuffed as town. We need to sort out who the best lynch is from here.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So my gambit expired a shitton of pages ago, and F-16 chooses to vote me over it..... now that tammy is voting me and others have expressed some sort of interest? Yawn.

Yes, exactly. If nobody else wants to vote you, pushing your lynch would be a waste of effort and best put off for the next day.

[pieguyn]

Oh also thank you for towning pie.

UNVOTE:

wanna lynch Casso with us? or Cephrir?

[pieguyn]

Pie, I'll wait for Cephrir to answer to that. I specifically want to know why the switch from Pie-town to hopping onto the wagon.

here's the only answer he ever gave iirc

I think I am beginning to agree with this, his questioning of me felt kind of robotic

also note how delayed it was. my questioning of him ended at 1779. in the time in between we had a vote on Casso, a vote on SC, then an unvote. and note how in that exact post he was quoting maraca's vote on me, that is, the second vote on my wagon. he's posturing to join my wagon now that it's accelerating

note how he never actually joined my wagon. he's subtly pushing it along bc it'd look bad if they all piled on me immediately

[MC Maraca]

Oh also thank you for towning pie.

UNVOTE:

wanna lynch Casso with us? or Cephrir?

I'm less sure now that nachoffery sorting dance happened of my scumread there. I could probably sheep you onto cephrir. Mara's kinda AWOL so what the hey.

VOTE: cephri

[MC Maraca]

So my gambit expired a shitton of pages ago, and F-16 chooses to vote me over it..... now that tammy is voting me and others have expressed some sort of interest? Yawn.

Yes, exactly. If nobody else wants to vote you, pushing your lynch would be a waste of effort and best put off for the next day.

Meh. You're not really doing ~awesome~ this game like I expected you might. Like you've yet to invite me to a meta dance, you've done one half asses meta report on anyone, and your "omg cabd is scum here's meta on his gambits and why this is a scum gambit" post seems to have gotten eaten by C:\dev\null so you can repost it.

[Sakura Hana]

What the Balloney? Could you explain how your mind went from:

I want our vote here, the most I think

To:

Oh also thank you for towning pie.

[MC Maraca]

What the Balloney? Could you explain how your mind went from:

I want our vote here, the most I think

To:

Oh also thank you for towning pie.

Probably the pie posts between post 1912 and 2138; if I were a guessing man. Also that first post was mara and she sucks at this whole town thing.

[Cephrir]

We can't wait to wagon me until I'm actually here? That's just rude guys.

[Cephrir]

I gather I am being voted for being Casso's scumbuddy? Please tell me how that is logical in any way?

My ability to care about this dwindled pretty rapidly.

[Cephrir]

I guess ffery and cabd are voting me for being aggressive probably which is fair. They're probably town.