Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[Mirari]

Mirari, it's the 12 major ones plus Hades.

Oh. That makes sense.

[Mirari]

Ooba it is worth noting that penguin did the "bucket" thing in WWE Mafia run by Nexus (a Large Theme) but not in Maniacal Street Mafia run by Mastin (a Large Normal). She most likely did not do it in Maniacal because of the size of the game and the fact that most of her team was dead by Night 2.

[shos]

@wisdom 2361: no, but because he actually brought a new, seemingly original way to think while you're scumhunting, and that's a 150% town use of brain. you can't wind it out just by saying that he's acting as if he's already found scum.

@mirari 2362: actually I'll quote cuz this matters

penguin has voiced suspicions of other players [Mala, MattP] but has never truly thrown her wait behind a wagon for either one. She isn't even really throwing her wait behind my wagon. She's coasting on scumread on me.

this actually has a point. it got me thinking and I really can't answer it. I need to ISO myself to see where and why I townread Peng so hard; I'll do that via phone tomorrow, I guess. not too much time today. I have like 20 minutes.

@Ooba: how is virgin scum a godfather? he cannot be neibourized, yes, but he still has a QT, right? so mala would find it anyway. it would be VERY interesting to make a setup based on QTs where there's one scum member who cannot access the QT
and yes it was pretty obvious who the second virgin is -_-;
I find it odd that you go for hunting the scum NEI before the scum VIRGIN, btw.

*sigh* I got ninja'd by like 1235 posts

[Wisdom]

Some things to consider if we go with this theory.

Grim claimed Virgin to give Matt's neighborizer claim more strength. I doubt this would happen if they are both scum. Agree?

The other Virgins have not claimed despite Grim encouraging them to do so if they exist (1924). Would a scum Virgin claim or not seeing a Town Virgin claiming?

[ooba]

If anything the Virgin is a goon and the neighborizer is a pseudo-godfather. That was my take on the setup.

But wouldn't all neighborizers already be guilty to Mala? Or by Pseudo-godfather, do you mean that all three are millers by default so not affected by cop results?

And isn't this "pseudo-godfather" bit in hindsight - I mean think of a situation without any prior claims when Mala had targeted scum X on night 2 claims "X has a QT" on D3. X will now have to convince people he actually is a neighbourizer. To top if off, he might have been counterclaimed by any of the other two NEIs here.

Overall, "you're immune to being neighborized AND you don't show up as having a QT" seems to be the most possible theory for now. (That is - assuming the 3 virgin thing is still right)

[shos]

I see that ooba has suggested something similar to what I did - I hardly believe that is it, it is waaaay too far fetched to be real.

Mirari, being a godfather-neighbourizer is foolish, cuz if you nei and get investigated they know you're godfather, lol.

[Wisdom]

I think what Mirari meant with pseudo-godfather neighborizer is that even if Matt catches them having a QT, they have the excuse of being a neighborizer (therefore it's not an actual guilty)

[Wisdom]

Mala*

[shos]

wisdom, re:grim claim to protect matt: don't agree. when I'm scum I drop this kind of wifom all the time.

@ooba:
that doesn't seems like the only way it's going to work, and it's really wishy washy. I have a bad feeling about this.

it might be possible that something needs to activate certain things. I mean, there's a spare night before the copping begins, so there might be something else that enables/disables abilities. this setup spec is waaaaay too wishy washy.

[shos]

oh I get it.

[ooba]

Grim claimed Virgin to give Matt's neighborizer claim more strength. I doubt this would happen if they are both scum. Agree?

The other Virgins have not claimed despite Grim encouraging them to do so if they exist (1924). Would a scum Virgin claim or not seeing a Town Virgin claiming?

1) Yes. Grim-scum wouldn't link his fate to scumbuddy Matt so early. I can see Grim-scum linking to Matt-town.

2) That's surprising.

Point towards: (Speculation) Given that I'm suspicious of fitz as scum and fitz NEI claimed after the other two - I think scum virgin would have claimed.

Point Against: However, Quick ISO however reveals that fitz claimed way back in #1791. Maybe scum virgin figured out the one scum in three rule for NEIs and VIR and decided it's better not to claim?

Let's give it some time for others to read this again (maybe they missed 1924). But Grim looks much better if a second person claims but we do not get a third.

[Wisdom]

wisdom, re:grim claim to protect matt: don't agree. when I'm scum I drop this kind of wifom all the time.

What I meant is
Assume Grim is the scum Virgin and Matt is the scum Neighborizer. Since he knows he is immune to neighborizing, he and scum know that town have neighborizers too. Therefore, when Matt claimed Neighborizer, Grim would know that others will also claim Neighborizer and he would have no need to pop up and claim Virgin to make Matt's claim look more likely.

But now that I thought of it like that, maybe it's not impossible.

[Wisdom]

Maybe scum virgin figured out the one scum in three rule for NEIs and VIR and decided it's better not to claim?

Good point.
Also the claim of a second virgin would further point at Mala's claim being legit, so maybe they didn't claim since there were still people doubting that.

[Mirari]

Maybe scum virgin figured out the one scum in three rule for NEIs and VIR and decided it's better not to claim?

Good point.
Also the claim of a second virgin would further point at Mala's claim being legit, so maybe they didn't claim since there were still people doubting that.

I doubt that? A flavor claim would easily point them out in that case? If anything the scum virgin would be the first to claim but town being more careful chose not to claim.

The problem with that is I don't really see Grim as scum.

[Wisdom]

A flavor claim would easily point them out in that case?

What do you mean?

[Nachomamma8]

...Not enough what?
And, why would I know this is a mod hosting her second game?
And, what does it have to do with anything?

The theory shook my townread on you at first, but then I remembered this is Elyse's second game and she probably wouldn't come up with something as crazy as that; what she's done thus far with the neighborizers and the QT cop is enough craziness on its own.

I am tired so mostly read to keep up, but townread on ooba and Mirari gets strengthened in the last 6 pages or so.

[Mirari]

A flavor claim would easily point them out in that case?

What do you mean?

Virgins can only be 3 gods. Athena, Artemis, and Hestia. If the scum didn't want multiple virgins to confirm a fact in the game, they would be living on borrowed time as come mass claim their Virgin status would be questioned.

[Mirari]

I think what Mirari meant with pseudo-godfather neighborizer is that even if Matt catches them having a QT, they have the excuse of being a neighborizer (therefore it's not an actual guilty)

This is what I meant.

Mala checks one of the neighborizers before they claim - "You have a QT, why?" "I am a neighborizer!" "Prove it." "Player X, are you in a neighborhood with me?" "Yes."

If ooba is correct in that complicated assumption I will be upset, but I think checking one of the virgins is the best course of action for Mala when she gets the chance.

[Wisdom]

I mean
Let's say 2 town virgins and 1 scum virgin
Grim (town virgin) claims
I say that Grim's role points to Mala's role being legit and there are possibly more roles like Grim's
Scum virgin does not claim so as not to confirm what I said, since there are people still questioning Mala's claim

[Mirari]

I mean
Let's say 2 town virgins and 1 scum virgin
Grim (town virgin) claims
I say that Grim's role points to Mala's role being legit and there are possibly more roles like Grim's
Scum virgin does not claim so as not to confirm what I said, since there are people still questioning Mala's claim

Yes. But if they claim at any other point it is now likely death for them since their claim could have prevented a mislynch and indirectly confirmed themselves if Mala targeted them.

[Mirari]

I am tired so mostly read to keep up, but townread on ooba and Mirari gets strengthened in the last 6 pages or so.

For what reason?

[ooba]

There might be simpler explanation as far as reasons for not claiming at that time go - but I don't want to answer for anyone else.

Worth bolding:

If your ability is a "virgin" (i.e. cannot be neighbhourized) in this game, please claim

[Wisdom]

Also if you are Artemis, Athena or Hestia but NOT a virgin, tell us so.

[Desperado]

I am tired so mostly read to keep up, but townread on ooba and Mirari gets strengthened in the last 6 pages or so.

For what reason?

Probably the same reason I think you two look better: there's a tag-team energy to your most recent posting that wasn't present earlier.

[Wisdom]

i can see other ways where it is useless, what if no QT existed in the game,

what if scums didnt have a qt

,

Btw ooba, do you think this could be related to your theory about one scum not having access to the qt?