Ultimate Videogame Topic 3: The Next Generation

[theaceofspades]

What? nooooooo I was not aware of that......crap, why?

[bv310]

So we have a PS4 that's supposed to be coming on Tuesday. Now we just need to figure out what games we want for it.

I have like 7 games, basically all them aside from the sports games. AC4 was awesome if you didnt buy it on PS3/360 yet

Funny enough I put off buying the sports games cause I knew they were getting next gen releases and there was no point in having them on last gen if we were getting a next gen system.

Nope, NHL didn't get a release on this gen.

Only sport game I wanted and they fucked me

I'm playing NHL 14 on PS3 right now. Is it not being ported up? Questionable decisions by EA.

[tanstalas]

So we have a PS4 that's supposed to be coming on Tuesday. Now we just need to figure out what games we want for it.

I have like 7 games, basically all them aside from the sports games. AC4 was awesome if you didnt buy it on PS3/360 yet

Funny enough I put off buying the sports games cause I knew they were getting next gen releases and there was no point in having them on last gen if we were getting a next gen system.

Nope, NHL didn't get a release on this gen.

Only sport game I wanted and they fucked me

I'm playing NHL 14 on PS3 right now. Is it not being ported up? Questionable decisions by EA.

It's the ONLY sports game not being released for the next gen. I know, right? Like you would think they would want all the money they could... but yeah, no NHL 14 on PS4/XB1

[JDodge]

what do we want

SHITTY UPSCALES

when do we want them

NOW

[tanstalas]

what do we want

SHITTY UPSCALES

when do we want them

NOW

There was a difference between the AC4 versions of last gen and this gen. They were subtle graphical improvements but they were there. Water, foilage moving with you, etc.

[Hiraki]

The chances that those same affects are added to NHL are none (I can't even say little to none here)

[tanstalas]

The chances that those same affects are added to NHL are none (I can't even say little to none here)

Yes they could.

Development are generally done on a PC, scaled back textures are then ported to the 360/PS3, they could keep the higher res textures, for one. There are so many things they could improve on a game like NHL on a console with a faster CPU, RAM, GPU. You sound ignorant saying that.

[tanstalas]

Anyone see tis game called "Rust"? looks like Minecraft with a mix of World War Z

[tanstalas]

OK, I bought RUST, it's ok, it's like a 3D Minecraft but with World War Z type of elements, bastards killed me as soon as I spawned in twice, then I ran around and hid, then I got shot by a gun... a gun?!?!

[Papa Zito]

it's like a 3D Minecraft

[Battousai]

Just beat The Last of Us... kind of disappointed. So much hype for this game and I just didn't get it. The ending also wasn't that good.

I get that they were going for a moral dilemma, save the girl or save humanity, but it would have been so much better if they changed the part where he's driving off with Ellie. When she asks him the if what he said was the truth about the Fireflies and they show how he escaped, instead of escaping that whole thing was his last thoughts, as Marlene shoots him and he watches her take Ellie back into the hospital

[Tamuz]

Why would that be better?

From a novel perspective and from a gameplay... remember this is a game where the character is you.

[Battousai]

You won't come off thinking your character is a selfish asshole, for one. Or at least if you do, he's dead so screw him.

And this game it doesn't feel like you are Joel. It feels more like a movie of sorts, at least it did to me.

[Umbrage]

I get that they were going for a moral dilemma, save the girl or save humanity, but it would have been so much better if they changed the part where he's driving off with Ellie. When she asks him the if what he said was the truth about the Fireflies and they show how he escaped, instead of escaping that whole thing was his last thoughts, as Marlene shoots him and he watches her take Ellie back into the hospital

honestly the ending was the best part of the game

IMO, there's no moral dilemma. What Joel did was incredibly fucked up. He betrayed the only person he cares about, and the only person who cares about him. The final scene where he's talking about how Ellie would've liked his dead daughter was creepy as hell. It was completely the wrong decision, or at least the right decision for the wrong reasons. It was an awkward ending that left a bitter taste in your mouth, and yet it was completely in Joel's character. I mean seriously, how the fuck are you supposed to end a story like that? If either died it'd be a cheap attempt to make you feel sad, if both lived happily ever after it would've been a cheap and unrealistic conclusion, and if it was all for nothing you'd feel like you wasted your time. So they took the story somewhere uncomfortable. It's a brilliant move. They gave the player exactly what they wanted: Joel and Ellie become close and neither die, but maybe that's not such a good thing after all.

The problem lies in the main plot of the game.

OK so the whole reason for finding the Fireflies is because they can make a vaccine. Never mind that the government, as evil as they surely are, would be better equipped to make a vaccine. Never mind that the Fireflies and probably even the government would find it next to impossible to actually distribute said vaccine since most of the survivors automatically shoot anything that moves and the precious few vehicles that drive don't have working roads to drive on, not to mention the sheer logistical problem of physically making enough of the shit for everyone.

The basic problem is that a vaccine would be TOTALLY FUCKING USELESS.

I don't think the developers know what a vaccine is. It's completely different from a cure. A vaccine primes your body's immune system to prevent shit from infecting you in the first place. And, guys? IT IS SO FUCKING EASY TO NOT GET INFECTED. JUST DON'T WANDER OUT ALONE WHERE THERE ARE ZOMBIES, AND DON'T BREATHE IN HUGE OBVIOUS CLOUDS OF SPORES. Getting infected is the LEAST of the average citizen's concerns. They're worried about food. And ammo. And gangs with shotguns. And the government being dicks. They don't need a vaccine. They need people with big fucking guns to expand territory and get society back up and running. So there are spores, big deal. Joel's shitty gas mask deals with them easily enough, if they could do it in Metro 2033 they could do it here. A vaccine might be nice sometime down the road, but it's not going to save you from getting shot in the face, being eaten by a clicker, or starving to death. So the whole plot of the game, and the fateful decision made at the end, IS COMPLETELY POINTLESS.

[tanstalas]

I don't think the developers know what a vaccine is. It's completely different from a cure. A vaccine primes your body's immune system to prevent shit from infecting you in the first place. And, guys? IT IS SO FUCKING EASY TO NOT GET INFECTED. JUST DON'T WANDER OUT ALONE WHERE THERE ARE ZOMBIES, AND DON'T BREATHE IN HUGE OBVIOUS CLOUDS OF SPORES. Getting infected is the LEAST of the average citizen's concerns. They're worried about food. And ammo. And gangs with shotguns. And the government being dicks. They don't need a vaccine. They need people with big fucking guns to expand territory and get society back up and running. So there are spores, big deal. Joel's shitty gas mask deals with them easily enough, if they could do it in Metro 2033 they could do it here. A vaccine might be nice sometime down the road, but it's not going to save you from getting shot in the face, being eaten by a clicker, or starving to death. So the whole plot of the game, and the fateful decision made at the end, IS COMPLETELY POINTLESS.

Riiiiight. Well, so, a vaccine for something like AIDS would be useless as well right? You could abstain from sex, or you know use condoms, etc..

[InflatablePie]

god fucking dammit Umbrage, you broke the spoiler when you quoted.

argh

[CooLDoG]

god fucking dammit Umbrage, you broke the spoiler when you quoted.

argh

implication: people care. I mean really??? another zombie game? Don't you guys know the story already? I'm a tad done with the whole zombie thing, seems like the next WWII shooter...

[Umbrage]

holy shit I have absolutely no idea how that happened

I don't think the developers know what a vaccine is. It's completely different from a cure. A vaccine primes your body's immune system to prevent shit from infecting you in the first place. And, guys? IT IS SO FUCKING EASY TO NOT GET INFECTED. JUST DON'T WANDER OUT ALONE WHERE THERE ARE ZOMBIES, AND DON'T BREATHE IN HUGE OBVIOUS CLOUDS OF SPORES. Getting infected is the LEAST of the average citizen's concerns. They're worried about food. And ammo. And gangs with shotguns. And the government being dicks. They don't need a vaccine. They need people with big fucking guns to expand territory and get society back up and running. So there are spores, big deal. Joel's shitty gas mask deals with them easily enough, if they could do it in Metro 2033 they could do it here. A vaccine might be nice sometime down the road, but it's not going to save you from getting shot in the face, being eaten by a clicker, or starving to death. So the whole plot of the game, and the fateful decision made at the end, IS COMPLETELY POINTLESS.

Riiiiight. Well, so, a vaccine for something like AIDS would be useless as well right? You could abstain from sex, or you know use condoms, etc..

The goal we have in defeating AIDS is different from the goal in TLOU. We want to wipe AIDS off the face of the planet, and we have both the technology and resources to do such a thing in theory. In TLOU, they're trying to ensure humanity's survival and rebuild society. The spores aren't the problem. Getting bitten isn't even a major problem. The problem is the sheer number of things that want to kill you, coupled with the scarcity of supplies. In the future, it'd be nice to get a vaccine and start wiping out the fungus, but for now a vaccine doesn't matter since most people live in quarantine zones anyway, and unless someone conceals a bite solely to be an asshole to others, there's no chance of the rare infection spreading. It's not a priority, and even if it was there's no conceivable way to manufacture and distribute it. A vaccine would be good in something like TWD, because in that universe your best friend turning on you is a very real threat that could happen at any time. Not so in TLOU.

[Zachrulez]

You won't come off thinking your character is a selfish asshole, for one. Or at least if you do, he's dead so screw him.

And this game it doesn't feel like you are Joel. It feels more like a movie of sorts, at least it did to me.

Spoiler:

There's a somewhat important plot point that comes from listening to the various recordings of the doctors talking about the infection as you go to save Ellie from the surgery. Basically that she was not the only person who was immune and even after doing the same surgery to several other immune people they still had no cure. (I forget how many but I think it was dozens?) I mean when you're looking at it from the perspective of Joel selfishly saving Ellie and denying the world a cure, acquiring that little nugget of information is huge in gathering perspective on what Joel is doing. He's not denying the world a cure, he's saving Ellie from certain death from a procedure that hasn't gotten a cure and was unlikely to. (Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.)

It's important perspective because it's the difference between denying a cure and saving Ellie from a senseless and fatal surgery.

[Umbrage]

You won't come off thinking your character is a selfish asshole, for one. Or at least if you do, he's dead so screw him.

And this game it doesn't feel like you are Joel. It feels more like a movie of sorts, at least it did to me.

Spoiler:

There's a somewhat important plot point that comes from listening to the various recordings of the doctors talking about the infection as you go to save Ellie from the surgery. Basically that she was not the only person who was immune and even after doing the same surgery to several other immune people they still had no cure. (I forget how many but I think it was dozens?) I mean when you're looking at it from the perspective of Joel selfishly saving Ellie and denying the world a cure, acquiring that little nugget of information is huge in gathering perspective on what Joel is doing. He's not denying the world a cure, he's saving Ellie from certain death from a procedure that hasn't gotten a cure and was unlikely to. (Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.)

It's important perspective because it's the difference between denying a cure and saving Ellie from a senseless and fatal surgery.

that would be a good reason for saving her, but it's clearly not his motivation

[Zachrulez]

You won't come off thinking your character is a selfish asshole, for one. Or at least if you do, he's dead so screw him.

And this game it doesn't feel like you are Joel. It feels more like a movie of sorts, at least it did to me.

Spoiler:

There's a somewhat important plot point that comes from listening to the various recordings of the doctors talking about the infection as you go to save Ellie from the surgery. Basically that she was not the only person who was immune and even after doing the same surgery to several other immune people they still had no cure. (I forget how many but I think it was dozens?) I mean when you're looking at it from the perspective of Joel selfishly saving Ellie and denying the world a cure, acquiring that little nugget of information is huge in gathering perspective on what Joel is doing. He's not denying the world a cure, he's saving Ellie from certain death from a procedure that hasn't gotten a cure and was unlikely to. (Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.)

It's important perspective because it's the difference between denying a cure and saving Ellie from a senseless and fatal surgery.

that would be a good reason for saving her, but it's clearly not his motivation

Spoiler:

I present it mostly because a large number of people who beat the game end up believing that Joel denies the world a cure through his own selfish motivations. In different circumstances he might have, but given the context of what was going on in the world there was no cure and probably never was going to be.

[Parama]

I don't even know what we're doing because I never played that game but I figured I'd join in the bandwagon. Rosebud was the sled.

[Umbrage]

You won't come off thinking your character is a selfish asshole, for one. Or at least if you do, he's dead so screw him.

And this game it doesn't feel like you are Joel. It feels more like a movie of sorts, at least it did to me.

Spoiler:

There's a somewhat important plot point that comes from listening to the various recordings of the doctors talking about the infection as you go to save Ellie from the surgery. Basically that she was not the only person who was immune and even after doing the same surgery to several other immune people they still had no cure. (I forget how many but I think it was dozens?) I mean when you're looking at it from the perspective of Joel selfishly saving Ellie and denying the world a cure, acquiring that little nugget of information is huge in gathering perspective on what Joel is doing. He's not denying the world a cure, he's saving Ellie from certain death from a procedure that hasn't gotten a cure and was unlikely to. (Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.)

It's important perspective because it's the difference between denying a cure and saving Ellie from a senseless and fatal surgery.

that would be a good reason for saving her, but it's clearly not his motivation

Spoiler:

I present it mostly because a large number of people who beat the game end up believing that Joel denies the world a cure through his own selfish motivations. In different circumstances he might have, but given the context of what was going on in the world there was no cure and probably never was going to be.

but we all know Joel would've done the same thing regardless

the Fireflies were infected and desperate assholes, yeah, but that doesn't make Joel the good guy - the only character who's consistently done the right thing is Ellie, and rather than let her act as the moral compass she was meant to be, Joel lies and traps her in a creepy partnership

[Battousai]

If Ellie died, pretty sure Joel would have killed himself. Losing his daughter once pushed him to the edge, losing her again, albeit with a simile, would kill him.

He did it just for that reason, he needed someone to keep him going.

[Umbrage]

If Ellie died, pretty sure Joel would have killed himself. Losing his daughter once pushed him to the edge, losing her again, albeit with a simile, would kill him.

He did it just for that reason, he needed someone to keep him going.

I think it was Kant who said something like "treating people as a means to an end, instead of an end in themselves, is an immoral action", and that to me is Joel's sin. He never saw Ellie as a partner, just as a goal. At first she had to be protected because he promised Tess, or because she was too important to give up on. Then she evolved into a surrogate daughter. But at no point did he want to protect HER, just the IDEA of her. He wanted Tess, a cure, the child he lost. He needed someone to keep him going, and she was conveniently nearby.

And that's why the narrative isn't completely focused on Joel, and why the player takes control of Ellie for a chunk of the game, including at the end. Because by that point the player knows Ellie better than Joel does. We watched her befriend a young boy before he turned, we helped her hunt for food, and we felt her anxiety while fighting David. We want to save Ellie because she's Ellie. Joel wants to save her because she reminds him of his daughter.