> You make a good point, I hadn't thought about it earlier but yeah, Green was one of the only two IC's, and could have really helped here.
I think that makes this quote a little more telling:
Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:GreenLiquid was the actually the only one who really knows my playstyle in this game and who, as such, did not find me really suspicious, apart from the accidental third vote.
Way to use meta-gaming and a player who cannot speak in your defense. Green cannot validate nor invalidate that statement.
"Clear" me? No, of course not. As I said earlier, he was slightly suspicious of me over the accidental third vote. But he certainly didn't share your suspicions over what is essentially just my playstyle.
Scumchat is awesome. Yarr!
~"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."~
I just re-read Peter Venkman's posts in the context of his remark about emotional involvement and I must admit he seems sincere. I'm going have to re-evaluate my other suspicions too then.
Scumchat is awesome. Yarr!
~"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."~
. I havn't had the luxury of playing with you, nor read many of the games you've participated in. I've mostly read Newbie games so I could get a better grasp of what's going on here.
Until we hear from Eldarion we are talking ourselves in circles. I know it's only been about 24 hours since the thread re-opened, but could we get a prod?
-Peter
P.S. Saturday I spend the majority of the day in the field. I will not have internet access, and thus will not be able to post. I will read the thread late in the evening and respond if there are any new events.
Ah, fair point about the lack of posting. I'll try to fix it. I was trying to make sure that every post I made counted, but in hindsight I guess it's better to make sure you're active. I check the thread reasonably often, I just don't post most of the time, because I have no logical input on the heated discussions taking place, often between 2 people.
My voting play has been rather similar to CES I guess, but coincidentally I believe, I don't know his motivation for not voting, I'll try to explain mine: I didn't vote for NaR as he seemed too contradictory to know. Near when he hammered himself I was feeling closer to voting for him, but that play was completely incomprehensible. At other points of interest, we were a player down, I felt it was wrong to go on incomplete premises. And that's pretty much it.
Nocmen: Suspects me like other people suspect hitting a light switch will turn on the light (well maybe not THAT much, but still a lot). Strangely I don't feel much in the way of vengeance towards you; except that it's an awful stretch to say that what I wrote back on like page 2 (I attacked GL, for what I thought and still think were good reasons) has any reflection on how I would have felt going into the night; but if you truly view me as scum, and that's the best you got, then I'd say I've posted quite well (when I have).
remussaidow: Doesn't really suspect me more than a gut instinct. I hate gut-instincts, they allow scum to point at someone without dedicating themselves or committing logical fallacies. Previous comment was more of an aside, I'm not accusing you of scum for this, but you really did have a valid reason to accuse me (and hence FoS me), you don't need to go all hand-wavy. You posted that my posting regularity was similar to CES's, I think that's being a bit hard on CES, he seems to have tried very hard to post quite regularly. Personally, if you're satisfied with me, then i'd like to turn the heat up on remus; I'm not satisfied it was adequately resolved last time he came up as the hot topic to attack.
Peter Venkman: The only thing suspicious about him is that he doesn't really make mistakes. Has made plenty of contributions, nothing has come of it yet, but hopefully correct insights will be vindicated by the end of this day.
Cogito Ergo Sum: The person who suspects me the least (unless I missed something?). Doesn't seem too anti-town, but also hasn't given any insights that I've seen. You really shouldn't rely on how a dead player might have perceived your playstyle to prove the fact that you didn't kill him last night. You shouldn't have to rely on anyone else's defence of your playstyle except your own, if you can't explain why you play in a certain way adequately, then you really shouldn't be playing like that. It'll only distract from town's ability to see the enemy (haven't we already been through this discussion of your playstyle a couple of times in this game CES?). Actually while writing this I made a little leap in my head; I've only seen Peter (and I seem to have been bandwagoning a bit on this) really dig into your playstyle, maybe it's just him. You do seem to have made a few 'mistakes', but they could be genuine, and your playstyle is a bit wierd, but I read some of your other games, and it seems you've been lynched for this before (as a townie, or pseudo-townie).
Eldarion: He's incredible, I wish I could be as awesome as him. And keep this on the down-low, but I hear he has the ability to swat 2 flies with a single sweep of a roll of newspaper (this is not a metaphor, he actually does this).
I hope this displaces some 'lurkerish' accusations, which I admit were up to this point relatively easy to pin on me and could even have made townies vote for me. I'll try not to make the same foolish distractions that plagued our first day.
Eldarion, you win the prize for "longest post in game #320."
Thank you for that huge rundown. My FoS was poor logic, I just wanted your reaction.
As for...
Eldarion wrote:Peter Venkman: The only thing suspicious about him is that he doesn't really make mistakes.
I don't know how to react. Thanks? I admit I havn't been feeling this way, that whole ordeal with Ranger left me thinking that my approach to this game might be seriously flawed.
Well, I don't really have anything to back that up. I also said that it hasn't really been tested. But the only times I've really disagreed with you were on your 'impulse' points, not your logic.
It takes me ages to write decent sized content-posts, I type fast, but think slow; thought I might as well go all out.
Nocmen wrote:
Eldarion: You had an early stint against GL near the start of the game, which makes me suspicious over the fact that he died last night, which for inexperienced scum could just be an overreaction (OMG He Pointed Me Out SCUM KILL!). Also, as mentioned for CES, you also have not contributed much to help logic along for us town.
I was sure I remembered what you were talking about (and responded thus in my long spiel above), but can't seem to find it, is there any chance you can point me to the relevant post(s)? I want to make sure I'm defending what I think I'm defending. And whether I have any right to attack you for bringing it up.
Individually I might agree with you, but I havn't seen evidence of a
pair
.
C.E.S.
Your day 2 "strategy" appears to be one of gathering trust. You make the first day 2 post a very neutral "this is the best way to play" post. You follow it up with some more non-comments, and until my serious prod you really avoid any in-game analysis. You blanket accuse
everyone
to "blend in" with the rest of us confused townies. Now you are narrowing it down by what appears to be a completely arbitrary process. Remember, if you don't say
why
at this point in the game, you aren't helping.
Right now, the scum players have a lot more information than the town. If things don't appear to be proceeding well for them, it makes sense one would give the other up in an attempt to have an easy win for day 3.
It is no secret that I have felt you are scum this whole game. I suspect if we did end up lynching one of those two it would have turned out to be the right one, thus anchoring faith in you.
I would feel comfortable casting my vote on you, than following it up on whichever of those two players are still alive in day 3.
Peter Venkman wrote:Hmn... I was sorta wondering why I lived to see day 2. I figure I was the most likely target, and you've confirmed that.
My best guess: the scum players didn't want to gamble with the presence of a doctor. Picking the no2 candidate has a better chance of getting a kill.
I admit, this is a WIFOM argument. However, pointing to me still being alive isn't a compelling argument for your innocence.
-Peter
From that, it seems to me as if you know for certain if a doctor is actually present here. However, the only one who would be able to know that is you. To me it seems that you are saying that you are the Doc, and the scum then decided to go after GL because you could possibly protect yourself? And as Doctor, could you protect yourself in here?
Hey, Nocmen, no fishing. Scum certainly could've decided not to kill someone because there
might
be a doc.
Peter, you would've been the likeliest target if I were scum, yes. I'm not though. Considering your suspicion of me, GreenLiquid was the most logical nightkill for the real scum group.
Also, Nocmen, doctors can't self-protect.
Scumchat is awesome. Yarr!
~"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."~
Usually Doctors can not self-prot themselves, but I have seen games where the doc could (for example I was once a doctor that could self prot every other night). This has though caused me to sort of guess if they could or couldnt every game, and unless i see something proving it wrong, I was assuming they could this game because their role PM as posted on page 1 by the mod did not say otherwise.
Though as you pointed out, its stupid for me to be fishing that, as I doubt the scum would know by last night if Peter was a Doc. I think though he did just slip up accidentally, and I am a complete dumbass for pointing it out to the scum.
Peter Venkman wrote:scum players didn't want to gamble with the presence of a doctor
I was just hypothesising who and why the scum would nightkill if they were concerned about a doctor. A classic
wine in front of me
or WIFOM situation for the scum. Do they kill the obvious target in hopes that there is no doctor, or do they go for their no2 choice? Would the doctor protect the obvious target, or go with his no2 choice?
CES
was attempting to clear his name by using the fact that I am still alive as his defense. I do not think this is a good argument.
Peter and CES, CES especially, since Peter just ran with your first statement, there really is no good reason for a WIFOM discussion there. At all.
And Also, CES, you just used WIFOM to try and clear yourself. Defend yourself against this scumtell.
Now, life is civilized. Once there was a city, barbaric in its ways. Yet, they were an empire. But even before that, they were two brothers. They fought. Remus said ow, and it all began.
yes, we are. That doesn't mean that the remaining IC should start a WIFOM.
Talking about what WIFOM is is fine, actually engaging in WIFOM is not.
Now, life is civilized. Once there was a city, barbaric in its ways. Yet, they were an empire. But even before that, they were two brothers. They fought. Remus said ow, and it all began.
