Hydras in mini normals

[mykonian]

no need to make that set in stone. More experienced mods will now and then make games that people ask for. The more people that ask for no-hydra games, the more they'll come up. MD is a nice forum to voice such an opinion.

This is a different for mini normal mods though. More often then not, they'll be first time mods. It's unfair to ask from them to make such game-decisions based on what they know of MS. If you want hydras to disappear from mini normals, you probably need to organise that from top down. But for large normals, that's a bit too big a measure, I'd say. You could let sitemeta do that for you.

[Oversoul]

no need to make that set in stone. More experienced mods will now and then make games that people ask for. The more people that ask for no-hydra games, the more they'll come up. MD is a nice forum to voice such an opinion.

True.

I think I may be biased against Large Normal games. I don't like the current culture for Large Normal games. Mods feel the need to make excessively large games with multiple power roles and multiple factions. It is no surprise that some of the record holders for largest games or longest days come from Large Normal games. Hydras only make that effect worse.

I appreciate testing the NRG's boundary for normality, but not every game has to be ridiculous. Although, I think that is the current culture for every sub-forum currently. Big, complex, long winded.

[Huntress]

I've been thinking of running a large hydra-free all vanilla game because it's the kind of game I'd like to play in so I want to see if it's viable. If it is then hopefully it will encourage others to run one. I've been procrastinating but this thread has encouraged me to go ahead with it.

[Faraday]

Mods feel the need to make excessively large games with multiple power roles and multiple factions.

Don't think this is the current culture for large normals? I mean looking at the latest large normals less than half have been multi faction? (Well if you count an SK), obviously mutiple power roles are needed for balanace.

[Oversoul]

Mods feel the need to make excessively large games with multiple power roles and multiple factions.

Don't think this is the current culture for large normals? I mean looking at the latest large normals less than half have been multi faction? (Well if you count an SK), obviously mutiple power roles are needed for balanace.

Including Serial Killers this number is at least 50% or over.

Can be changed to "Mods feel the need to make excessively large games."

[Alduskkel]

Knight-Errant 18p is not excessively large. Also JOAT SKs are awesome.

Not that I'm biased or anything.

[pieguyn]

while I agree that pure town vs. mafia is the most enjoyable fun-wise I think SKs are good for increasing the speed of the game. like I wouldn't want to play an 11 day game 0.0

[Oversoul]

Which is solved by not having large games.

[Zachrulez]

no need to make that set in stone. More experienced mods will now and then make games that people ask for. The more people that ask for no-hydra games, the more they'll come up. MD is a nice forum to voice such an opinion.

True.

I think I may be biased against Large Normal games. I don't like the current culture for Large Normal games. Mods feel the need to make excessively large games with multiple power roles and multiple factions. It is no surprise that some of the record holders for largest games or longest days come from Large Normal games. Hydras only make that effect worse.

I appreciate testing the NRG's boundary for normality, but not every game has to be ridiculous. Although, I think that is the current culture for every sub-forum currently. Big, complex, long winded.

What's the average size of a large normal game?

I did an 18p with 4 scum and a serial killer with 5 town power roles. (2 of the scum had power roles, the SK had some abilities to help out his disadvantage, and one of the town power roles was specifically to help find the SK.) 8 vanilla town for a game that size seems about right.

Does a game with an SK even count as multiball? It got thrown in with that game because I believe an SK was suggested by Sotty instead of a vig and it stuck.

Edit: Looked at the current 6 games in the New York forum and the average number of players is just over 20. (20 and 1/3rd) That seems relatively reasonable to me.

[mykonian]

while I agree that pure town vs. mafia is the most enjoyable fun-wise I think SKs are good for increasing the speed of the game.

I know people do this and it feels terrible. It's probably something for another md thread though, but putting a role in it to make the game less about the people talking during the day, just to shorten the total game length has to be a bad idea. You as a mod get to decide on the game's size. You created your own problem (the game is going to be too long) and decide to solve it by adding another random factor into the game.

I personally don't want to use SK's, but people like to play them so if you want to mod with them, put it in because someone is going to like it and the rest of the players are going to like to hunt it. Don't put it in to shorten the game. Yes, there's a difference. In the latter case the SK is added as an afterthought, in the first case you are building a game to allow people to have fun with an sk that you put in at the start of the process.

[Jake from State Farm]

I just watched a player get pulled out of their sign up for a mini normal game because they expressed a desire not to play with hydras. This bothered me, since I have a long held notion (probably unexpressed to this point.) that hydras shouldn't even really exist in normal games. (They don't occupy a player slot in a normal way.) Have we reached a point where we're outright favoring hydras in games over individual players regardless of the game type? I do think there needs to be a line for hydras, and I think generally that line is drawn with normal, newbie games. The remedy proposed for the player was to sign up for the next game, but what if a hydra ins to that one too, and the game after that?

I probably feel the same way about hydras in large normals given that they're much less complex then theme games generally. I do think that players should have refuge from being forced to play with hydras at least in the confines of normal setups.

I'm pretty sure we don't allow hydras in newbies and for good reason. If this is wrong feel free to correct me on that, but if it is wrong, then be prepared for me to rant about that too.

^good posting

[Aegor]

I am back from a rather extended hiatus, so hydras are news to me. I loathe them, but my concern is logistical. Reading through some games, hydra heads post from their original accounts, forget to sign their names, etc. -- all of these are irritating obstacles and disruptions to the flow of the game. Is no one else bothered by these annoyances?

[RichardGHP]

Posting from original accounts is almost unavoidable when you're in a hydra. The right thing to do is sign into your hydra account right away and quote the post, taking credit for it.

Signing names is, in my view, only a courtesy. It's up to the heads whether they want to do it or not. It is quite helpful, but I don't think I'd complain if it wasn't done.

[FakeGod]

I am back from a rather extended hiatus, so hydras are news to me. I loathe them, but my concern is logistical. Reading through some games, hydra heads post from their original accounts, forget to sign their names, etc. -- all of these are irritating obstacles and disruptions to the flow of the game. Is no one else bothered by these annoyances?

Well met, brother in arms!

[Aegor]

I am back from a rather extended hiatus, so hydras are news to me. I loathe them, but my concern is logistical. Reading through some games, hydra heads post from their original accounts, forget to sign their names, etc. -- all of these are irritating obstacles and disruptions to the flow of the game. Is no one else bothered by these annoyances?

Well met, brother in arms!

Herakles

indeed. I have no problem confining them to theme games or some specialized setup where they act as a gimmick, but I would think that solo players in standard games (which would include regular normals) should never be bumped down in favor of hydrai. In other words, solo players should by default have the right to bump hydrai from games.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I don't like that idea at all. Hard to say why.

[Psyche]

Make it a (loosely enforced) rule that 50% of normals be hydra-free, in the same way my Princetonian overlords ensure that only a third of all grades are As?

[Aegor]

Make it a (loosely enforced) rule that 50% of normals be hydra-free, in the same way my Princetonian overlords ensure that only a third of all grades are As?

It is not as strict as you would think. I never got a grade I did not deserve except in writing sem.

Anyway, I like that idea. When did hydrai become a thing, anyway?

[Tierce]

Make it a (loosely enforced) rule that 50% of normals be hydra-free, in the same way my Princetonian overlords ensure that only a third of all grades are As?

There is no way I am enforcing a rule that forces some moderators to act in a certain way because others acted in a different way. That makes no sense and it seems much healthier to leave it up to moderator choice. Some welcome hydrae, others do not. It is not up to me to enforce a percentage choice.

[Psyche]

Yeah, and 50% is an unreasonable number anyhow.

[sirdanilot]

I do not mod anymore, but to be honest I would NEVER allow hydras in ANY game unless the game was specifically geared towards them (perhaps a hydra-only game). Hydras were not a thing back when I played a lot, oh how I miss those days.

[Jake from State Farm]

Hydras in mini normals should be banned cause a hydra isn't normal.

[Jake from State Farm]

It's technically legalized cheating

[Plum]

I do not mod anymore, but to be honest I would NEVER allow hydras in ANY game unless the game was specifically geared towards them (perhaps a hydra-only game). Hydras were not a thing back when I played a lot, oh how I miss those days.

Weirdly enough, I'm pretty sure Adel bears a lot of responsibility for the current state of hydrae being 'a thing'.

[Faraday]

Hydras in mini normals should be banned cause a hydra isn't normal.

What normal rules does a hydra break?