Mafia 61: No Theme - Game over!

[Kison]

Because he wanted to get him to talk?

[Battle Mage]

its ok. Skruffs seems to have a fetish for pointless meaningless votes...

I find Skruff's vote scummy. It seems like a lame scum reason trying to start something but. But, the only thing against it, is that the reason is bad. IT's more of a reason to defend Rand Althor

[Skruffs]

Oh, baby.
Hot erroneous votes turn me awwwwwn.


I was correcting the town's wagon. If someone walks into a rom and says "Fircoal is scum, he should claim" and then someone else says "I agree, fircoal should claim.", why does it make more sense to go after the person who agrees with the first person, rather than the person who originally walks into the room?

And why is this such a big deal for you? I like Twito, too. He's fun and oppurtunistic and has a bit of silliness which keeps things from getting too crazy. BUt I'm still going to vote for him if he's the right person to vote for.

[Fircoal]

It's not, just something that is scummy. It does make more sense, but if you don't think Rand was scum for argeeing with Twito, what would make yo want to put your vote on Twito?

[Skruffs]

Err... Did I infer that Rand wasn't scummy? That's a loaded question.
I believe I already stated that people voting for Rand for reasons other than askign for a claim, those reasons are sound(er) than for that one.

There can be a big difference between being accurate, and being correct. Twito is the *accurate* choice for votes based on

claim-requesting

. It does not necessarily make him or Rand more or less scummy.

Of course, if me, fircoal, twito, rand, and kison all decided to stop bickering, we could ALL put a big ole wagon on a lurker.

[spectrumvoid]

Mod: Please prod the following:

Cheesefan
ac1983fan
Zarvok
Mole
Dragon Phoenix
Paper
TheJiveMachine
Wizardcat
Pevergreen

They have not posted in a week.

[Battle Mage]

this made me ROFL.
Also, im surprised that TheJiveMachine needs a prod. He is active in another game im in with him...

Oh, baby.
Hot erroneous votes turn me awwwwwn.


I was correcting the town's wagon. If someone walks into a rom and says "Fircoal is scum, he should claim" and then someone else says "I agree, fircoal should claim.", why does it make more sense to go after the person who agrees with the first person, rather than the person who originally walks into the room?

And why is this such a big deal for you? I like Twito, too. He's fun and oppurtunistic and has a bit of silliness which keeps things from getting too crazy. BUt I'm still going to vote for him if he's the right person to vote for.

[TheJiveMachine]

I'm lazy and bad at staying active in all my games. Hi. I need a reread. I'll post for real later.

[Kison]

Based on what I've seen so far, I'm still waiting for substance from Scotmany, but have yet to see much from him.

Rand al'Thor is also a possible vote from me in the future based on actions stated by many. I also agree that Twito's push for a claim should not be ignored either, but I think there's more to go on with Rand for the time being.

[Skruffs]

cheesefan is *gone*, I think. HE got replaced in almost every game I as in with him.

[AndrewS]

Just so you folks know, they've been prodded and I'm planning on replacing them...as soon as I can find someone who wants to replace into this game. That's the tough part.

[Rand Althor]

Really I don't see much of a case on me. Ignoring the pushing Kison to roleclaim, I said we should Lynch Blahgo without voting. Frankly I think the scum are trying to get an easy wagon out of me.

Other than that i'm going to reread this. (hopefully my eyes won't bleed from RR's posts)

[Fircoal]

(hopefully my eyes won't bleed from RR's posts)

Good luck with that, it's hard for your eyes not to bleed when it comes to RR's posts.

[Fircoal]

Err... Did I infer that Rand wasn't scummy? That's a loaded question.
I believe I already stated that people voting for Rand for reasons other than askign for a claim, those reasons are sound(er) than for that one.

There can be a big difference between being accurate, and being correct. Twito is the *accurate* choice for votes based on

claim-requesting

. It does not necessarily make him or Rand more or less scummy.

But still, were

you

voting on claim-requesting?

Of course, if me, fircoal, twito, rand, and kison all decided to stop bickering, we could ALL put a big ole wagon on a lurker.

You'd like that wouldn't you.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Back. We are at page 23 of a game in day one that did not even start with a night? Good grief. I'm sticking with Rand.

[Lalmtreasteek]

Maybe another vote count would help.

There must be some other option for this game if we need 7-8 replacements, maybe say they all vote for whoever has the most votes?

[Jalyn]

Extremely unofficial, quick glance through vote count:


Rand Althor (5) -- Mole, Dragon Phoenix, Spectrumvoid, Jalyn, Mastermind of Sin
Kison (3) -- Twito, pevergreen, Battle Mage
Scotmany12 (3) -- Lalmtreasteek, Kison, StallingChamp
Battle Mage (2) -- Wizardcat, Cheesefan,
Jalyn (1) -- scotmany12
TheJiveMachine (1) -- Sailor Jerry
Twito (1) -- Skruffs

Not Voting: Rand Althor, ac1983fan, Paper, TheJiveMachine, Fircoal

Based on Patrick's vote count from 3/17. I think the only thing that's changed since then is that Skruffs has moved his vote around several times.

Which brings me to:

Frankly I think the scum are trying to get an easy wagon out of me.

You call sitting at 3(Mole 2/22, Dragon Phoenix 2/28, Spectrumvoid 2/28 ) ,4 (add Jalyn 3/12) & 5(add Mastermind of Sin 3/15) votes for days on end an easy wagon? That may mean nothing more than the town not agreeing with the logic of the people voting for you, but it's hardly an easy wagon.

[Jalyn]

New plan.


Voting for Rand Althor:

Mole -

Hmmm, there are also lurkers, people who act scummy, stupid people, people who need to be replaced, and RR. Why pick on spam?

Because spam distracts people from finding scum and is more annoying than any of the others.

I'm not sure about voting for Blahgo or RR right now. I'm going to review the events of the day, but

Fos:

Fircoal, RR, and Blahgo.

Vote: Rand Althor

I don't get it. Why those three?

Vote Rand Althor

I get scummy vibes from his recent posts, in particular asking for a claim from Kison, and even more sowing suspicion on people without actually committing to a vote.

Considering Kison is only at 7 at the moment, why the request for a claim at this point in time?

I can go with a vote: Rand Althor As I said ealier, I don't like the way he asked for a claim too.

I'm going to switch directions entirely, and vote:Rand Althor for:

Twice pushing Kison to claim and then:

Currently I am against the Kison lynch, we just don't have enough information to lynch him. We had RR who I think was just playing plain bad.

Blahgo looks good today, and we then can see what night gives us.

Trying to push the wagon against me without committing himself?

After rereading, I agree with DP's reasons and will vote: Rand Althor I don't think he's being entirely helpful.

Kison -

(Jalyn here - oh, this is gonna suck. Please note, I'm just grabbing posts that have an obvious suspicion mentioned.)

Vote: IH

Why? Cause he is scum

The Kangaroo is always right.

I don't like the "IH is scum!!1" thing one bit, and find you more suspicious than Twito for jumping on it.

You're also a newb, and therefore not part of that in-joke.

FOS: Twito

, mostly for spamming the thread.

Unvote, vote: pevergreen

.

You are absolutely right there is no way I would be spamming the thread if I were to be town.

Unvote
Vote: RR

Generally speaking, nothing wrong with that. We don't have any completed games with each other, though.

I'm not referring to only you in particular. You taking this so personally is rising my scumwibes about you again.

I didn't vote blahgo because I wanted to see how the wagon would develope. I finds it's developing scummy. I'll stick to RR as I see scum trying to replace RR wagon with blahgo wagon. I'm not yet ready to name people who would be this scum on blahgo wagon nor ignoring the option of blahgo actually being scum. His wagon does include RR tho.

I find people jumping on MoS for his dice roll scummy. Especially if they keep pushing after explanation. MoS where do you find those always so sweet dice rolls I used to use them and had the page in my favourites but lost and I'd like to use them again. Btw RR is one of those people jumping on MoS coz of this but not voting. I believe this to be based on blahgo wagon being hotter.

I'm sure you understand why I'm keeping my vote on RR.

RR btw you trying to put this case down as "pure ad hominem" just makes me more sure I'm right about you here.

-4 is dangerous especially in newbie games like someone said..

RR keeps repeating words "ad hominem" as his only defence. He really should stop it it's making him look more of an idiot than he really is.. or who knows maybe he really is that much of an idiot. Also it's not proper defence. His only other type of defence is trying to divert suspicion on other people voting him.
He is trying to put down the whole case againts him as "ad hominem". Yeah right. Bye scum.

I've also realised that scum are generally the ones who asked for replacement when they're being attacked.

Try this: ignore Twito.

Same thing. Always scum asking to be replaced. The one and only time I've been replaced I was scum myself.

Don't ignore Twito or you ignore the most important part of the game.

Thx paper.

Sorry to hear that RR. Would you be interested in playing an open game to hopefully make mafia fun? Or try a large game, there're a few signups going at the moment.

Twito is in all of them but Twito really doesn't have anything personal againts you. Againts your playstyle a little bit as you keep repeating things over and over and over and over.. and over.. and over again.

RR, you're taking things to personally. Most of these things you call "personal attacks" are not personal attacks.

QFT

And so he is replaced..

You calling me new when I signed up before you.... confused.

Unvote: IH Vote:Raging Rabbit

I get on the IH/Twito thing because its the same at my other mafia site. The two main players vote each other first in every game. It's funny.

ffs, im getting damn sick of these stupid arguments between Raging Rabbit and Twito. Im sure that one oif them is Mafia-possibly both, in opposing groups. I'm going to

Unvote, Vote: Raging Rabbit

, because i generally dislike the way he almost bullies Twito.

Kisons claim doesnt have any flavour, and doesnt strike me as particularly believable. My vote stands unless he can prove me wrong.
BM

I'm a townie. What're you, the Dragon Reborn?

That's half of the voting players. Hopefully someone else will post before I get the other half taken care of and post the reasons for those votes, thereby splitting up these monstrosities of posts.

Please also note, if I missed a post explaining the reason for a vote, I apologize. I grabbed everything that looked like a reason from each person thus far. Well. I skipped a couple of Twito's posts, but I think I got the jist & they kind of screamed at each other for 5 pages or something ridiculous- if I missed an important one, sorry.

[ac1983fan]

I haven't been prodded, although I'm not posting becuase there's simply not much going on in this game. rand's been acting a little scummy.... but only a little, ya know.

[Jalyn]

Scotmany12

Ok, I got scum on these players:

vote: scotmany

Twito
IH

Is there a good strategy for this besides reading people's posts and just gauging what sounds scummy or not scummy, because any other logic seems to get complicated fast.

Lalmtreasteek:

I got scum on scotmany from his posts 1, 4, 9, 10, 12, 13, and 15.

Could you please explain what about the posts that you mentioned made you think that scotmany was scum from the posts that you mentioned? Especially as the first couple are still in the completely random phase of the game?

Only the first one of those is in the random voting stage as the second one already stated he believed blahgo/you claimed scum so he was keeping his vote.

So how did I get scum out of this:

Unvote
Sorry that I haven't been active in this game late. I have been swamped. However, after looking over the topic, blahgo looks the sumiest to me, so

Vote: blahgo[/b[

That just feels like scum to me, doesn't it to you. I wouldn't mention it if I didn't think his other posts said scum also.

Jalyn, the reason I am set on my vote with blahgo is because, honestly, who else was we going to lynch?

1) No specification for why you are currently voting, only that "there is no-one else to lynch"
2) Impatient tone as you seem to be in a hurry for a lynch

Look back. We have already discussed why blahgo could be scum, and I'm too lazy to explain my reasoning. Until someone else looks like they might be scum, I'm leaving my vote on blahgo's replacement. If it get me lynch, then fine. Just know that you will be lynching a townie.

1) Too lazy to explain reasoning is not a good indication at all that you care at all for what's going on
2) Your last sentence is a sympathy plea for innocence

Except that MoS, I saw noone else to lynch. I didn't see the case on RR, so I wasn't going to vote for him. I guessed I could have voted for you MoS. Yeah, cause that would have got me out of this whole predicament I am in. Whatever, I don't really care. I am not being idiotic and my argument is not bullshit. I never said there was no one else to talk about, but there was no one else that I found worthy of a lynch.

1) Same response to this as the one from above.
2) Your "I don't care" attitude only makes you look more guilty as you're becoming agitated under pressure.

Vote : Scotmany12

If I'm voting anyone, I'll

Unvote

.

Wow. What a long, drawn-out, and overall waste of time Day 1. Page 20, and we have relatively little to go one.

That being said,

Vote: Scotmany12

for his theory that concentrating on 1 player is the way to go. Emotion appeal doesn't help his case, either.

Also, I'm going to send a

FoS: BattleMage

for going after MoS so strongly, and calling OMGUS when MoS responded.

Battle Mage

its simple really. I think RR could well be scum. You are sticking up for his replacement. Therefore, it isnt hard to understand how i could see you as potential scum.

Anyway, if u want proof, lets lynch Kison and find out.

BM

I absolutely love the bolded part. An attempt to start a lynch with no proof at all sound perfectly non-scummy, right, fellow players?

Unvote: blahgo, Vote: Mr. B. Mage

Vote:BM

His craplogic on this page needs a vote.

i dont think RR was a bad townie. He has always struck me as a capable player in other games, and despite facing suspicion in those, he has not asked to be replaced. Im pretty sure he is scum, but if not, im certain he isnt a power role. I think Kison would be a good lynch for today.

FOS: MoS

-for sticking up for scum

I agree with TheJiveMachine. While I'm not going to wipe Kison's slate clean, I'm not going to run up a replacement on Day 1, when it's possible RR was just a really bad townie that couldn't cope with pressure.

its simple really. I think RR could well be scum. You are sticking up for his replacement. Therefore, it isnt hard to understand how i could see you as potential scum.
Anyway, if u want proof, lets lynch Kison and find out.
BM

Battle Mage, please reference me to another game where RR has been run up for anything similar to this.

Also,

Hand of Stupidity: Battle Mage

You FoSed me on craplogic. You can't preemtively assume that I'm sticking up for scum when you haven't yet proven that said person I am "sticking up for" is scum. In addition, I fail to see how I am "sticking up for scum". Further, why are you singling me out, because if what I'm doing qualifies as "sticking up for someone", then you missed out on FoSing a lot of people.

You've got a lot of explaining to do, BM.

his was the most recent example at the time. If i remember correctly, i only FOSed him. If i was going to place a vote on it, i would obviously take other players actions into account.
BM

*wizardcat-talking to the other players colloquially when you (if you are protown) have no idea of their affiliation IS a scumtell. Anyway, what you are saying is false. I didnt 'start a lynch', i merely saw that those who had started it had done so for good reasons.

Also, Battle Mage, MoS was not the only one that stood up for RR. I know I did, and I'm pretty sure other people did so as well. Why is it that you are only singling out MoS?

rofl.
ive never seen anyone take an FOS so seriously.
ive also never seen such a blatant (and premature) OMGUS

his was the most recent example at the time. If i remember correctly, i only FOSed him. If i was going to place a vote on it, i would obviously take other players actions into account.
BM

That's not an acceptable explanation. Even if you are not voting me, you are trying to cast suspicion upon myself and myself alone by FoSing me and excluding everyone else. This makes me think that you have some sort of agenda, and the only people that would have an agenda are, well, scum.

vote: BM

Jalyn

Unvote

Sorry that I haven't been active in this game late. I have been swamped. However, after looking over the topic, blahgo looks the sumiest to me, so

Vote: blahgo[/b[

I'm actually set on my blahgo post. I really don't like what he is trying to say. In my eyes he admitted to being scum and is now trying to create a bullshit reason why he said that. And since I was second to vote for him I don't think I count for his band wagoning.

Sorry for double post.

Alright Jalyn, you want my reason for voting for you. Blahgo jumps on three bandwagons in the beginning of the game, and his last bandwagon that he jumps on is for RR, for the sole reason that he wants RR or twito lynched. He wanted the day to end. And then he makes up a bullshit defense for his actions saying that that is just how he acts in real life. And then he vanishes from the topic. He was lurking, he was jumping bandwagons, he was in a hurry for the day to end, and then he tries to defend himself in an extremely crappy way. To me, he was the most scummiest. Is that enough for you people?

TheJiveMachine

FoS: Sailor Jerry for trying to turn a general disinterest in the game into personal attacks, as well as posting a giant list just to make it look like he's saying something helpful.[/b]

How about you post something that even LOOKS like it might be helpful?

As a matter of fact, I just filtered the thread to look at just your posts.

And I think I actually rather fancy a vote on you. Let's hear some more of your thoughts about the game. Tell me, for example, your thoughts on spectrumvoid and DP?

unvote, vote: TheJiveMachine

Lurking in plain sight. OMGUS. Gut feeling. Prodding you for some meaningful contribution.

Pick any one you like.

Twito

We broke up the fircoal/twito alliance in a different game and fircoal turned out to be town. I'm not really willing to try it again..
BUT I WANT TO....

Anyways.

I feel like I'm in a room full of emo kids.
"Apathy... *sigh*... Whatever....'

The biggest part of the game so far seems to be based on RR's inquisition into a random dice role. His pointless attack met with criticism from others, and his defense was a series of defenses basically of "you have no case on me".

What I don't get is why Rand Althor is being pegged for asking Kison to claim - Twito was asking for a claim three days earlier? Did you guys not notice that or is someone glossing over it...
I basically started the thread at post 317 and started reading from thre, but wound up reading back a few pages and forward a few pages to see what was giong on.
Twito asked repeatedly on Feb. 23rd for a claim from Kison, shortly after RR replaced out. Rand didn't echo that until the 26th.

Hmm?
I think I am misunderstanding - are you saying twito always acts that way so it's okay, but rand doesn't so it's not?
I am pretty sure that's not what you are saying, but it's the easiest way to interpret it.
For the record, I would think someone who consistently acts scummy is a better lynch than someone who's still feeling things out and doesn't know the ropes yet, so,

Unvote

Vote : Twito

*stir, stir, stir*

Well. I guess that's a post between my two massive posts.

Anyway, there's the raw data.

[Kison]

This game has slowed down significantly, and I do find Rand al'Thor's actions worthy enough to lunge at. I still think Scotmany is scummy, but there is zero momentum there.

Unvote

Vote : Rand al'Thor

[Twito]

I haven't been prodded, although I'm not posting becuase there's simply not much going on in this game. rand's been acting a little scummy.... but only a little, ya know.

Scum.

[Skruffs]

Jalyn, good work on the summarization, very thoughtful of you. Some people have changed their votes; is that a tally of Just the current vote count, effectively?

I've offered suggestions as to why some of the accusations against Rand are misplaced. Personally, though, if I just turn around and vote Rand, right after mentioning ththe aforementioned displacement of votes, it defeats the point of saying those things in the first place. When I said them, I didn't noticed that Rand had asked twice and inferred another time that kison's claim was needed. However, it doesn't seem all that scummy to me, based on the context of the game at that time. Other people had started asking, Kison had a spotlight on them, and Rand seemed to be pushing what other people were already saying. IF thsoe people are now voting Rand for agreeing with them.. those people are probably scum. Dunno if they are, and too tired to check, right now.

Do I think Kison should claim, now? No. But I think at that time, that asking the way that they did, was completely acceptable. A mob was forming, and all that.

This is *probably* coming accross as defending Rand, but it's really not. I'm offering another view to consider.

I think maybe there's scummier behavior to go after - like spamming. Not everyone needs to have a major part in every part of every day, but people who consistently post garbage are basically vocally lurking, and that's disruptive. Trolls are not needed in a game this size.

Anyways, By all means, continue to string up Rand, but the whole wagon seems based on apathy and the need to move the game forward - something that *is* important to take into account.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Frankly I think the scum are trying to get an easy wagon out of me.

You call sitting at 3(Mole 2/22, Dragon Phoenix 2/28, Spectrumvoid 2/28 ) ,4 (add Jalyn 3/12) & 5(add Mastermind of Sin 3/15) votes for days on end an easy wagon? That may mean nothing more than the town not agreeing with the logic of the people voting for you, but it's hardly an easy wagon.

I would take this observation one step further. This wagon (the biggest one around) is gathering momentum so slowly that I get the feeling that scum doesn't like it. And why would scum not like a bandwagon? tada.

[Skruffs]

Erm.
No. I don't really think that's the case. But it's a nice theory.
Saying "A majority of the town doesn't agree with my wagon, ergo, the wagon must be a good one!" does not validate the wagon at all. It's a wagon toddling alongt on the barest of reasonings. The players in this game are reluctant to commit to anything so frivolous, yet. It needs more sustenance, and then people will get on it.

If you really want to get people onto Rand, either provide an argument for her, or refute an argument against kison or scotmany, the tied 2nd placers in term of wagons. Freeing up other votes will allow them to be replaced elsewhere.