Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Yosarian2]

Running semi-vote-count-like-thing:

People who have commented:

Mnowax:
MOS:Yes
Vitiman R:No
SV:No
Smashy:yes.

PJ:
MoS: Leaning no
VitaminR: Leaning slight yes
SV: Yes
Smashy: Neutral


The Admeral:
MoS: no
VitaminR: i don't know/Yes
SV: maybe, leaning towards no
Smashy: obv yes

Fritzer:
Stubborn


Zindaras:
MoS: No.
VitaminR: Yes
Voidybuns: Yes. Definitely.
Smashy: Fifty-fifty.
Mnowax: Good execution.
Zindaras: Likes kittens. Is therefore town.


KaleiÐoscøpe:
MOS: Hammer possibility
Vitiman R: Don't hammer
SV: Hammer possibility
Smashy: Hammer him

Lowell
MoS:No
Vitamin:No
SV:Yes
Smashy:Yes

SV:
MOS:Yes
Smashy:Yes
Vitiman R:No


People who have not responded yet:

Cogito Ergo Sum (rep. Samus / Twomz)
Der Hammer (rep. Vaughn)
Fritzler
pablito
RafK (rep. Mert)
Shanba (rep. Nightfall / UberTimmy)
Smashy (rep. Dead Rikimaru)
Toaster Strudel (rep. Nightson / Vikingfan)
VitaminR (rep. DragonsofSummer/Phoebus)

[pablito]

MOS: Hammer possibility
Vitiman R: Don't hammer
SV: Hammer possibility
Smashy: Hammer him

MoS: Please keep alive. Yeah, he's generally not looking exactly town, but in the first part of the game MoS has made a statement and he has clearly intended to stand out through his non-voting. MoS does contribute. I haven't seen anything completely scummy from him lately, but he's not in my completely town pile either. I definitely do not think MoS should be executed now nor the near future. Oddly, at the moment of reading this, I feel that I'm suddenly taking him as my "keep him alive because even if he's scum, we'll have an informative lead later" which was the stance I originally took with Glork. Basically, I don't think I'm unbiased enough on him right now to make a good argument on him. I really respect him for the way he isolated mnowax.

VitaminR: Please execute. There is something wrong with this role. Without looking at votes or discussions or anything, this is the most cursed role there is out there. I find it non-coincidental that immediately after replacing in, both DoS and VitaminR have promised to do re-reads and have started lurking immediately therafter. I do not think anymore that reading the entire thread is necessary and I think it's more likely that this is indicative of someone replacing into a scum role and wondering how the hell he's going to get out of this. Anyway, it'd make it easier on everyone to execute a recent replacement anyway. And Phoebus wasn't exactly the epitome of pro-towniness in this game either. I see it as a win-win situation. I can only see a detriment if VitaminR comes back soon as starts asking really good questions and showing a lot of interest in just trying to do something other than lurking defensively - instead of lurking neutrally.

spectrumvoid - Keep her alive for now. I think SV was clearly the better choice to execute yesterday and it'd be good for Smashy to explain that. But nonetheless, SV still appears fairly neutral to me. She has shown some good town moments, and I'm more apt to believe that she's town than scum. It is good to see pressure on SV however and I hope she contributes a lot today knowing that she's on the block. Also, I hope that people mention SV independent of her being a suspect yesterday. It is way too easy to fall into the mindset of "well it was between LL and SV yesterday and since LL came up town..." just to suspect SV.

Smashy - Must stay alive. I think Smashy was forced into a tight situation and did the best that he could do with the time he head. I think DR did a fine job as king except for the leaving part. And I can understand where Smashy was coming from. I think that this defensive lurking is extremely scummy right now. But at the same time, Smashy has a lot to answer to and a lot of people are attacking him. It's hard to replace into this game and be immediately suspected. He did make a decent effort as king, and I think he made the wrong decision, but I believe there was some reasons behind the execution, and I think he needs to be pressured so that he gives those reasons, but I do not believe that the execution was indicative of scumminess.

I think mnowax needs to be on the LoE right now. Everyone is starting to have some type of reaction to his latest actions and it would be good to get those suspicions out in the open. It looks that mnowax is something easy to talk about, and I think that adding mnowax would help involve some new discussion. Plus mnowax under pressure could be interesting to see what types of defenses and attacks we get.

[pablito]

oops, I accidentally included Scope's list on the top of my post. So ignore that, I was just using it as a list to figure out who the four on the LoE were.

[VitaminR]

VitaminR: Please execute. There is something wrong with this role. Without looking at votes or discussions or anything, this is the most cursed role there is out there. I find it non-coincidental that immediately after replacing in, both DoS and VitaminR have promised to do re-reads and have started lurking immediately therafter. I do not think anymore that reading the entire thread is necessary and I think it's more likely that this is indicative of someone replacing into a scum role and wondering how the hell he's going to get out of this. Anyway, it'd make it easier on everyone to execute a recent replacement anyway. And Phoebus wasn't exactly the epitome of pro-towniness in this game either. I see it as a win-win situation. I can only see a detriment if VitaminR comes back soon as starts asking really good questions and showing a lot of interest in just trying to do something other than lurking defensively - instead of lurking neutrally.

Right... to be honest, I've been incredibly busy. I thought I'd have the time to read the thread quickly, but uni did not cooperate.

I was not even really aware I was that much of a suspect.

I'll have a quick look at recent posts now, so I don't hold up the game.

[VitaminR]

Okay. The case against me is based on lurking. I replaced into this game knowing there's a lot to read and I intend to keep up my end.

As for the current execution list, I have a slight scum vibe off Dead Rikimaru listed (he was trying to make too much out of pablito and Glork's jokey actions around page 2, I thought), but I haven't got anywhere near far enough into the thread to comment.

I have my afternoon off tomorrow. I will finish reading then.

[VitaminR]

Reading now. At page 16, I have a strong feeling SV and PJ are scum. Pablito I think is town. MoS too.

I'll keep reading, though.

[VitaminR]

One of RafK and KaleiÐoscøpe is scum. There was no real suspicion on Pooky, except for Glork's late Day 1 vote, but when Glork was made king, both jumped on the wagon very easily and quickly.

[VitaminR]

PJ did that too, actually.

Fritz is suspicious too. For the first 35 pages (this is where I'm up to now) all he did was push for CTD without giving reasons and call Pooky a good guy and his scum buddy.

Zindie is pro-town.

[spectrumvoid]

The reason why I'm not seeing a case for VitaminR is because.

Pablito: Why do you think DeadR did a good job as king? Because he basically stalled the game? Posted nothing but a summary post?

I get where the vitR case is coming from now, after pab's clarification, and I still don't agree with it. I know this sounds hypocritical considering I'm going after DR partly because of the lurking thing, but DR was king and had a larger responsibility to not drag the game down. Also, I understand why someone would lurk in a big page game. It's hard to immediately consolidate. (I really understand, I replaced in a 20 page and I'm already having trouble, let alone a 74 page one.)

[spectrumvoid]

Ignore the first line. I was typing VitR halfway and saw pab's post.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS: No kill, obviously
VitaminR: No kill, just not worth killing him right now
SV: No kill, I think he's just misguided at worst, but possibly scum. It's not like I've made an effort to "look" protown this game.
Smashy: Kill, I've already explained why
Mnowax: Definitely Kill, reasoning should be obvious by now

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

MoS: Yes. Scummity scum scum.
VitaminR: Yes. He should always be executed.
SV: Sure.
Smashy: Neutral

[VitaminR]

[quote="Cogito Ergo Sum"]VitaminR: Yes. He should always be executed.
[/quote]
FINE. Write your own flavour.

Finished reading.

Decided Fritz is probably pro-town, he actually started playing the game. Now undecided on PJ. I think his day 1 play wasn't good at all. He did not seem to have many suspicions and I don't think he had that much reason to end up executing Rosso. There were some good things in there too, though, so I'm not sure yet.

My votes:

Vote: spectrumvoid,
Vote: RafK,
Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

On the List of Execution:
MoS: Nope. Town.
VitaminR: Nope. I think he may be town too.
SV: Yes.
Smashy: Leaning towards no.

[pablito]

Pablito: Why do you think DeadR did a good job as king? Because he basically stalled the game? Posted nothing but a summary post?

What I said he was a good king? I meant to say he was a very town king, I think. I don't remember what I was saying when I made that post.

I like VitaminR's effort lately. At least we know he's not taking the easy way out.

[Shanba]

You didn't say he was a good king, you said
"he did a fine job as king", "he did make a decent effort as king", "I think Smashy was forced into a tight situation and did the best he could with the time he had". All from post 1826. I sense much backtracking in your last post.

[Shanba]

Aright. I still haven't read through MoS but I can give some thoughts on the other players on the LoE
VitaminR: I feel Phoebus was extremely scummy and Dragonsofsummer, while not looking particularly scummy did nothing to change my opinion of that role. That being said, now VitaminR has replaced in, the lurker problem there might be solved. I'd say wait and see on VitaminR. Also, I think this execution would give very little information.

Spectrumvoid: After re-reading her posts, a lot of the scum feeling I got has gone. Some things still worry me, and they're pretty much neatly collected in my entry post, but she wasn't sitting on the fence nearly as much as I remembered day 2. Nevertheless, I would not oppose her execution

Smashy: Dead Riki has struck me as scummy on a reread of his posts. His very first post is a sit back and snipe type that leaves me with a bad taste. His reign as king almost killed the game and his replacement's choice did not inspire me with confidence. I would like him executed.

Going to reread Zindaras, Mnowax and MoS

[pablito]

Shanba, you're confusing everyone by trying to say that Shanba-king and DR-king had the same exact style.

Only once did I refer to DR. SV pointed that out. Now don't go confusing everyone by trying to use my references to Smashy along with it.

[Fritzler]

way to post 5 times in a row vitamin^

who are you?
me?

[Shanba]

Shanba, you're confusing everyone by trying to say that Shanba-king and DR-king had the same exact style.

Only once did I refer to DR. SV pointed that out. Now don't go confusing everyone by trying to use my references to Smashy along with it.

I'll assume you mean Smashy when you say Shanba. In which case, as Smashy and Dead Rikimaru are playing the same role, should Smashy not be judged according to the actions of both. And actually, it was DR you said did a fine job as king, so that goes out the window too.
This is worrying me, I was thinking you were town not so long ago. Now I'm not so sure.

[pablito]

Yes, I meant Smashy-King.

Shanba, explain why you thought I was town. I feel that sometimes scum make a general statement like that to enter a new avenue of trying to create suspicion on someone who no one's going after.

Tell me exactly what actions and what posts made you believe that I was town. There's a big difference between "pablito doesn't register on my radar" and "pablito is town". Therefore, there has to be something that I posted that made you think I was town. Please tell me what it is.

[Shanba]

Just a sec, I don't have my notes on this PC, I'll have to do a quick re-read. If I remember correctly, however, you've been unafraid to voice your opinion and push the issue when a scum player might have tried to avoid the spotlight until it was turned on him (much as Pooky did). You've evaded the issue here though, that is, that you've just flatly contradicted yourself.

[Shanba]

Right. That was a fairly quick re-read, but what I've gathered is that your stances on various players has been consistent (I can go and find examples of that if you wish) and where your opinions have changed I can see the logic and the thought process behind it. While there have been one or two off-vibes from you, the overall feel I get is town: which is why I haven't voted for you yet.

[Thok]

Pablito, because of time issues, has request replacement in this game. Thesp will be replacing him, effective Monday.

[Der Hammer]

bye Pablito,


Out of those 4 I would go this way, Didn't like the way he handed being King and then I think my encoutner with MOS earlier left him reeking of scum

Vitiman R:No
SV:No
Smashy:yes.
MOS:Yes

[pablito]

Just a sec, I don't have my notes on this PC, I'll have to do a quick re-read. If I remember correctly, however, you've been unafraid to voice your opinion and push the issue when a scum player might have tried to avoid the spotlight until it was turned on him (much as Pooky did). You've evaded the issue here though, that is, that you've just flatly contradicted yourself.

I'm not gone, yet, by the way.

I'm sure I evaded some issue or other, but that's because, stuff.

I still stand by the point that DR tried his hardest but failed due to circumstances out of his control (his availability) and I think he would've been a decent king had he stayed active completely throughout.

I still stand by the point that Smashy did the best he could in a situation where he suddenly became king, and had to do his best with an immediately deadline and I think he still did a decent job despite me completely disagreeing with his final two on the LoE.

From my point of view, Shanba, you're still a mystery - as were your two predecessors, so I poked at you to see where you came from. I urge you to stay active and contribute even though I will no longer be able to act as your foil.

So - I think I've stated a reasonable amount on the discussions of today, but if you want something from me before I magically turn into Thesp (a wondeful player and I'm glad he's replacing me), then ask away. I feel that if I'm asking for replacement, the least I can do is contribute as much as possible so that Thesp doesn't have to try to piece some answers about my own words (although I've been fairly visible and explicit throughout). Especially when I'm not stepping away from the game because I fullheartedly want to.

So ask away - get your last answers from me.