Mini 388: DOOMsville II {Game Over!}

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

It's time for the second Vote Count of DOOM

1 - MrBuddyLee (Adele)
1 - Adele (MrBuddyLee)

Not Voting: Norinel, geraintm, ShadowLurker

Remember with 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch!

[MrBuddyLee]

Does anyone else get the feeling Adele has something to hide?

[Adele]

Ha-bloody-ha, but I'm writing a First Post here; Smalltown 2 filled up way quicker than expected. Plus, I'm interested to hear what Norinel thinks (and would actually really like more participation from him).

[geraintm]

agree with adele that norinel has to chime in, but i am still insisting on both of them telling us what they have been doing.

[Norinel]

Only once Norinel suspected me of lying about the daykills did I change my mind on the identity of the SK.

As I've said before, I'll speculate about nightgame possibilities that seem next to impossible until they're proven to be impossible. I've done it before in this very game, remember?

The one comment I'd like to make is that scum unlynchable exactly once is a not entirely broken (But still somewhat bastardly) role, so while I wouldn't advise lynching Ozy until he dies, I wouldn't write him off completely just yet.

I count two people asking for a claim from me- geraint and MBL.

vote: MBL

. It's growing more and more obvious that he's

something

not pro-town trying to stall for time, and even if he's a jester or whatever, there should only be one scum left we can deal with tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm not a jester and I'm not scum. SL and geraint, don't finish me off. Norinel's and Adele's behavior should give everything away to you... if they really believed I was the SK and the final threat to town, they'd be happy to claim in order to clarify the game's events. But they realize they have to lynch me AND survive tomorrow in order to win, so they're playing it close to the chest.

I'm not sure which one is the SK, and as I mentioned, it could be SL but that role would be kind of bastardly. geraint, good luck getting Adele and Norinel to give you what you're asking for... if they off me, you'll need SL's help to get it.

[geraintm]

norinel, how many people need to ask you to claim before you respond? double standards otherwise with your vote on MBL?

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm also thinking about the idea of everybody claiming and giving their roles and actions so that we can analyze them and see what happened each night.

[ShadowLurker]

Let's get a full claim out of Norinel at the very least.

This game is honestly very convoluted even if the roles aren't that much individually and I'm trying to decipher what the hell is going on half the time

I've already stated this:

Let's get a full claim out of Norinel at the very least.

Although MBL, less bullying tactics please.

[geraintm]

Norinel and Adele.
you have both been asked now to come forward with your roles.
i don't think either of you can avoid it now.

[Norinel]

Let's get a full claim out of Norinel at the very least.

This game is honestly very convoluted even if the roles aren't that much individually and I'm trying to decipher what the hell is going on half the time

All right, that's what I was missing.

I'm the Kamikaze. I have no night or day actions, so I haven't had anything to do with the night game thus far. However, if I'm lynched, the person casting the lynching vote for me will die as well.

Norinel's and Adele's behavior should give everything away to you... if they really believed I was the SK and the final threat to town, they'd be happy to claim in order to clarify the game's events. But they realize they have to lynch me AND survive tomorrow in order to win, so they're playing it close to the chest.

If that's true, then what's (what was, for me now) whichever one of Adele and I that

isn't

the SK thinking?

[Adele]

Sorry for my absence the last couple of days. I'm the deputy, which (obviously) means SL must be telling the truth. Sorry, no choices to declare. Any nighttime weirdyness is unrelated to me.

So, we have everyone in play claiming not-daykiller.

Norinel claimed bomb? Ouch, that's an enjoyable scumclaim but it's no flying pumpkin.

Geraintm, I'd appreciate a claim from you too now.

[geraintm]

Sorry for my absence the last couple of days. I'm the deputy, which (obviously) means SL must be telling the truth. Sorry, no choices to declare. Any nighttime weirdyness is unrelated to me.

So, we have everyone in play claiming not-daykiller.

Norinel claimed bomb? Ouch, that's an enjoyable scumclaim but it's no flying pumpkin.

Geraintm, I'd appreciate a claim from you too now.

no flying pumpkin? what do you mean by that?
and frankly, i don't believe at least one of the claims.
one solution i see is that would MBL be willing to place the last vote on Norinel.

Adele, i assumed my role was clear. I am the doc

[MrBuddyLee]

OK, finally.

I am the

psychiatrist

, and I am

neutrally aligned

. This is why I know for a fact there's an SK in the game and have been focused on drawing them out. My win condition is that I convert the serial killer to town, and I get to try once a night. My role PM says specifically that I will investigate as scum, and the SK will investigate as town and I am the only chance to catch him.

I tried to cure Ozy, Turbo and Norinel, all unsuccessfully. Norinel is NOT the SK--I truly believed he was yesterday after his behavior but he's clean.

What Adele said makes it pretty much impossible that SL is the SK. Claiming a deputy means either she's lying or BOTH of them are, and there's pretty much no way there are still two scum alive.

I believe geraint nearly entirely based on the lack of nightkills and his reactions to various game events.

That means

we should lynch Adele.

That is why my vote has been there and will remain there.

[Adele]

Wow, MBL, you're a liar.

I am the

psychiatrist

, and I am

neutrally aligned

. This is why I know for a fact there's an SK in the game and have been focused on drawing them out. My win condition is that I convert the serial killer to town, and I get to try once a night. My role PM says specifically that I will investigate as scum, and the SK will investigate as town and I am the only chance to catch him.

I tried to cure Ozy, Turbo and Norinel, all unsuccessfully. Norinel is NOT the SK--I truly believed he was yesterday after his behavior but he's clean.

What Adele said makes it pretty much impossible that SL is the SK. Claiming a deputy means either she's lying or BOTH of them are, and there's pretty much no way there are still two scum alive.

I believe geraint nearly entirely based on the lack of nightkills and his reactions to various game events.

That means

we should lynch Adele.

That is why my vote has been there and will remain there.

Here's my argument for why that's not true.
(1) This makes, in simple motivational terms, no sense whatsoever. MBL, If you

were

neutrally aligned, if your win condition was to convert the SK, and you believed I was the SK, wouldn't you want me to survive into the night? Wouldn't that give you the chance to cure me and give the town, you

and

me game wins? That would be the logical play for you, yet argue the exact opposite, which would preclude you winning - if you were telling the truth.

(2) MBL is not a complete moron.

therefore,
(3) He's lying. Again. Still.

If he were telling the truth, he'd take the only path that'd offer him the chance of a win and vote no lynch.
His latest claim, yet again, makes no sense. He's already lied beyond any kind of excusability, and his excuse for it is a wash, because it makes-no-sense.
He's talked since the dawn of time about how the town should start to engage their brains. I think it's time we did, and lynched the liar. This is a no-brainer.

[MrBuddyLee]

As a neutral, I also win with any side if I survive to the end of the game. If I die without converting the SK, I do not win.

I love how Adele tries to get me lynched solely on my old lies and not on game facts. I'm the daykilling SK but I had a night action? Give me a break. She's trying to draw your attention away from an analysis of the game based on events, which would be the logical approach immediately after a massclaim.

For example:

1) Why a doc if scum daykills? Clearly scum was killing at night and got docblocked. Ergo, there is an SK killing during daytime.

etc etc etc, carry on.

[ShadowLurker]

If Norinel is a SK, MBL must be guilty as well, therefore Norinel is clear.

If I am a SK, Adele must be as well, therefore, I am clear.

So now we have narrowed our list to MBL, geraintm, and Adele.


Ok now, the SK should honestly claim right now, why? If the SK claims, we no lynch, and MBL converts you to town and everybody but the three mafiates win. There is NO reason not to claim unless you're a dick and don't want people to win. This plan assumes that MBL is not the SK, but you have a MUCH better chance of winning by trusting us to convert you (as converting you gives another winner, lynching you provides no benefits) than trusting us to not lynch you today (2/3 chance of surviving as 2 people are clear) and then tommorow (1/2 chance of surviving) which means you have a 1/3 chance to win. 1/3 vs. 1, which is the better choice?

[ShadowLurker]

(SK also encompasses the chance of there being a mafia that could only daykill and only the mafia recruiter left which is the possbility I am leaning towards)

[ShadowLurker]

By the way, geraintm, can you announce your targets?

[ShadowLurker]

Sorry for quadruple posting, Adele: Does your PM mention anything about becoming a Day Cop or Night Cop? Just covering all the bases here and laying your claims all fully out on the table.

[MrBuddyLee]

SL, the daykilling scum is pretty much off the table because we have a doc. Not completely, but that role just wouldn't make sense in a game with only daykillers. Then again, it could be an SK safeclaim, but I don't think that's the case.

[Adele]

Ok now, the SK should honestly claim right now, why? If the SK claims, we no lynch, and MBL converts you to town and everybody but the three mafiates win. There is NO reason not to claim unless you're a dick and don't want people to win. This plan assumes that MBL is not the SK, but you have a MUCH better chance of winning by trusting us to convert you (as converting you gives another winner, lynching you provides no benefits) than trusting us to not lynch you today (2/3 chance of surviving as 2 people are clear) and then tommorow (1/2 chance of surviving) which means you have a 1/3 chance to win. 1/3 vs. 1, which is the better choice?

Makes sense to me.
I'm not the SK.

SL: I'm a backup; if the cop dies, I'll get his powers. That's all the mod told me.

[Adele]

As a neutral, I also win with any side if I survive to the end of the game. If I die without converting the SK, I do not win.

OK, I misunderstood your latest made-up win condition. Doesn't change the fact: if you

were

convinced I was the SK, you'd be pushing for no-lynch. So why did you push my lynch?

Because I'm your easiest target right now.

Um,

She's trying to draw your attention away from an analysis of the game based on events, which would be the logical approach immediately after a massclaim.

For example:

1) Why a doc if scum daykills? Clearly scum was killing at night and got docblocked. Ergo, there is an SK killing during daytime.

When did I say there definately wasn't an SK? I think you

are

the SK; the fact of your nightchoice being related to the lack of a daykill day 1.

[ShadowLurker]

geraintm: Please read posts 916-918 and then claim SK or Not SK, please remember that if you are the SK and claim SK, you will win. If you are not SK and you claim not SK, you will win. The only way you could lose is if you lied.

[MrBuddyLee]

The SK is lying about not being SK. If we don't get them converted, they can still win by dodging two lynches. So the right play, I believe, is to lynch the most likely SK target until/unless they fess up.

You say I should be pushing for no-lynch? LOL. So scummy. No risk to you of death today, and you gank me first thing tomorrow.

Of course, that increases the chances you get lynched tomorrow when I turn up what I say I am, so your best play is to confess now.