Ether wrote:I found him scummy for immediately shrinking back when he took flak for his vote.
That does actually make a fair amount of sense. I think maybe you articulated that point poorly earlier.
Ether wrote:I do not understand the significance of this remark.
As it turns out, I don't think that remark
is
significant. I noted it because you said you'd probably come hammer, just as you said you'd likely hammer Thesp D2. I was wondering if I could make any comparisons. I don't know if I'll think it's significant or not by the time I finish my re-read, but I was trying to note most/all posts which seemed interesting, caught my attention, or could have been significant.
Unvote Ether, Vote: ChannelDelibird
.
I still don't know how I feel about Ether, but I do know that I don't like Zindaras, and I really don't like CDB. I think that we should return to Ether later. Perhaps somebody else can take a look at her and give some thoughts. In the meantime, I want to lynch somebody that I am
sure
is scum. And that person is CDB (or Zindaras, probably).
Glork wrote:Interesting interpretation of MGM -- claims that MGM assumes Glork/Andrew to be pro-town. Mind explaining this, MBL?
Andrew made the nolynch suggestion. Glork seconded it, I believe, Andrew got wagoned, and that's what MGM was referring to here:
MGM wrote:Granted, you might get a few scum on your bandwagon, but not because they're opportunists, it will be because you called the wagon on yourself
The first assumption of a townie would be that Andrew's scum who made a scummy suggestion. But MGM here implies that Andrew might get a few scum on the wagon, which is not really expected if Andrew is scum himself.
Stated another way, I would have expected MGM's comment on the behavior to be more along the lines of:
imaginary MGM wrote:Suggesting that is scummy, and anyone who's not somewhat suspect of your behavior or considering voting you may very well be scum protecting you.
Mgm wrote:A lynch would've given us useful information whereas the murder of Adele tells us nothing we didn't know already. A lynch would've given us the chance to analyse the wagon.
It looks like we've got plenty to analyze from yesterday.
But the point remains, no lynch gives ALL the control of who dies to the scum. That's why I'm so opposed to it. Yes, we do have a lot to analyse, but it all lacks the amount of certainty we would've had if we could connect that information to a dead player. We can analyse your wagon to death, but unless we know if you're scum or not, we're not going to get much out of it.
MBL (post 951), of course scum would jump on the wagon of a scumbuddy. You don't want to come across as connected which is exactly what would happen if you didn't.
Keeping your vote there wasn't helping in securing a scum lynch.
Vote:Patrick for not using his vote to help secure a useful lynch (any lynch other than myself).
Hmm?
Mere semantics, Ether. I was saying it was almost certain that Adele and (and to a somewhat lesser extension) I were innocent. Voting either of us wouldn't yield dead scum. While lynching either you or Thesp might have.
"Logic is a systematic method to come to the wrong conclusion."
[u][b]Next:[/b] Doctor Who Mafia[/u]
[u]Testimonials about Mgm:[/u]
:shock: - Stoofer
You put me through hell Mgm, my nerves are crushed :/ - Patrick
Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Don't be silly, Thesp. I'm saying this town is a responsible one. I don't have to worry about bandwagons spiralling out of control and page 4 lynches, that sort of thing. I can vote the way I like. I don't need to show restraint. That's what I meant. Obviously.
It apparently wasn't clear. Looking back, I can see how that might have been what you tried to convey, but it wasn't the impression I got.
Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:And your remark served no real purpose, if you were town. And why assume that one is going to be deadline-lynched rather than simply giving the rules a quick read? The remark is simply far consistent with you being scum.
I'm uncertain how trying to force someone to reveal their justifications "served no real purpose, if
town". As to the assumption, I could have sworn we were under a plurality rule, and I was already typing my post (and unfortunately the preview pane didn't make it back to the first post), and I was too lazy to copy my post to Notepad at the time and go back in the browser, go to the first page, then reurn to my post. I'm uncertain of your argument that townies are typically not lazy, which seems to be what you have to assert for your argument to work.
Patrick wrote:
Ether wrote:No, seriously. You explicitly said here that Thesp was out of character, but your later statements have contradicted this. Please explain.
Yeah it was. His suspicions on day 2 seemed unusually feeble, and felt like little more than going after non contributors. That is out of character. At first I felt the attack on me was an attempt to appear useful or constructive too, but I changed my mind as it continued (not that I liked it). His play on day 1 was pretty usual for him.
This is consistent with how I've read you. I don't think this is an inconsistency in Patrick's play (my play did change substantively from early D2 to late D2).
Mgm wrote:But the point remains, no lynch gives ALL the control of who dies to the scum. That's why I'm so opposed to it. Yes, we do have a lot to analyse, but it all lacks the amount of certainty we would've had if we could connect that information to a dead player. We can analyse your wagon to death, but unless we know if you're scum or not, we're not going to get much out of it.
I think the people who
didn't
lynch me are pretty telling. Also, I agree that
all
the control of whomever dies is ceded to the scum, but we would want to do that at some point. I agree that yesterday may not have been ideal, at the same time, I would have liked a longer deadline to figure things out. I am unsure if a bad lynch is superior to a no lynch in our situation (clearly a
good
lynch is superior to both), in my position I'm inclined to think no lynch wasn't too bad.[/merits of lynch vs.no lynch]
"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -
Thesp wrote:As to the assumption, I could have sworn we were under a plurality rule, and I was already typing my post (and unfortunately the preview pane didn't make it back to the first post), and I was too lazy to copy my post to Notepad at the time and go back in the browser, go to the first page, then reurn to my post. I'm uncertain of your argument that townies are typically not lazy, which seems to be what you have to assert for your argument to work.
Firstly, ctrl-c, ctrl-v. Notepad is unnecessary. Ctrl-c it, go back to the browser, first page, check rules, ctrl-v, post. That's nothing. Secondly, we're not talking about townies, we're talking about you. Would you describe yourself as generally lazy?
Scumchat is awesome. Yarr!
~"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."~
Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Firstly, ctrl-c, ctrl-v. Notepad is unnecessary. Ctrl-c it, go back to the browser, first page, check rules, ctrl-v, post. That's nothing. Secondly, we're not talking about townies, we're talking about you. Would you describe yourself as generally lazy?
Yeah, but I've lost too many posts to forgetting that I had something copied I was going to save, when I saw something else worth copying and commenting on. As far as myself, on my own time, yeah, I'm lazy.
"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -
Patrick: Could you make a quick list of what you think about each player? Just a sentence or two per player is fine, though if you'd like to include more, you're more than welcome to do so.
CES: Please do the same thing. Quick thoughts on everybody.
MBL: What single player do you think is most likely to be scum? If that player were lynched as scum right now, who do you think is most likely to be their scumbuddy?
MGM: If Ether were lynched as a pro-town player, where would you want to look next? What if she were lynched as a scumbag?
CDB: Post and/or Perish. Preferrably both. Who are your scumbuddies?
Ether: What do you think of CDB? Fritzler? MBL?
Nightfall: What are your thoughts on the non-lynch of Thesp yesterday? Do you think anybody is likely to be scummy for not dropping the hammer? Pro-town?
MrBuddyLee: Seems fairly pro town though at times I think he went off in the wrong direction, for example day 1 spending a some time suggesting that the early Thesp wagon was probably some scum conspiracy. I also don't think what he's been saying today is necessarily the right direction either, but I'll say more about that later.
Glork: Unimpressed with day 1 play, been impressed since then. I think he's the most pro town looking player here.
Thesp: Really not sure. Has changed pace a few times in the game. Seems rather changed by the fact that a few ppl didn't hammer him, which is reasonable of course, although for some reason my sixth sense tingled over so slightly at his defence of me in his 72nd post. Not sure why though. I'll put him at neutral, but not in a bland way.
CDB: Slightlybad. It seems now that he must be deliberately lurking, since I've seen him around so much and yet he doesn't post here. Looking at all his posts right now - 21. Not much at all. Seems to have been focussing mainly on Thesp for a bit now, and it seems very easy to do. Incorrectly applied WIFOM, has posted since Thesp's complaints about this but no reply. Yeah I don't like him much.
MgM: Conflicting here, mainly caused by the investigation. I really don't like his play to be honest, I didn't like him yesterday, and I don't like the direction he took today, seems too eager to keep complaining about the no lynch. Also made the weird suggestion that odd or even number and roleblockers are irrelevant to a no lynch scenario. But yeah, cop has him as innocent. Not sure where I'd put him on any list of rankings, but I don't think such a thing would be very helpful now anyway.
CES: Meh. I dunno, though I don't understand the fanatisism for lynching Thesp which has been going on for a while now.
Fritzler: Heh I have some kind of read on him, even if it just gut. I think he's town. For some reason the lack of Thesp hammer struck me as quite genuine. I don't really think it increases the chance of a possible Thesp/Fritz pairing as MBL seems to think. I've seen Fritzler bus away scumbuddies in other games without a care in the world. I think he's town who genuinely thinks Thesp is town.
Ether: Hmm kind of scummy. Lurking alot. I have had trouble understanding her direction since around day 2 I think. Didn't much like the attempt to link me to Nightfall, wasn't overjoyed either at the way she jumped up when Glork suggested I was connected to Adele in some way. Tricky though, and she always seems scummy.
Zindaras: For a while my assessment of him was just bouncing vaguely around thinking he was a bit strange and thinking he was neutral. But now I think he's scum, for reasons explained at various points. I would be happy with lynching him.
Nightfall: I'm not watching him as closely as some others. Lurks at times. Didn't agree with some stuff he said about Andrew, though he sounds genuine enough. I'd put him at neutral.
-----
I don't see Fritz/Thesp or Ether/Thesp combinations as very likely. Ether's lack of hammer seemed too conspicuous and clumsy for them to be scumbuddies; I think she'd be smoother. And I think Fritz is town.
Actually I find Ether's lack of hammer fairly townish regardless of Thesp's alignment. <3 Ether for being tricksy. I could see Zindaras/CDB together, and out of the two I'd prefer to kill Zindaras. Hmm something I saw earlier made me think Zindaras and mgm could be together too. I disliked the way Zindaras seemed to be preparing himself to ooze onto the MgM wagon around pages 28/29. Then interestingly enough MgM attacked me for asking Zindaras for his reasons as Glork noticed in post 722. Then Zindaras was noncommital on mgm for a while, saying he was analysing him, while asking everyone for their opinions. Then, when it was finally looking like Mgm probably wasn't going to be the lynch for the day anyway, Zindaras finally voted him. Also makes minor attempt to link me with mgm. Damn. I could definitely see these two guys together.
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
Patrick wrote:Fritzler: Heh I have some kind of read on him, even if it just gut. I think he's town. For some reason the lack of Thesp hammer struck me as quite genuine. I don't really think it increases the chance of a possible Thesp/Fritz pairing as MBL seems to think. I've seen Fritzler bus away scumbuddies in other games without a care in the world. I think he's town who genuinely thinks Thesp is town.
im not saying i don't throw buddies under the bus, but i've never done it in agame with you, have i?
No. We've hardly played together. For some reason the game that was sticking out most when I said that was band mafia, where I think you chucked CDB under the wheels.
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
Glork, I've been working on that but I'll give you preliminary thoughts to chew on considering I'm not happy with the directions things are headed.
I'm not pleased with the whole "woohoo Thesp didn't get lynched, he's town" sentiment. I can literally hear the collective scum sigh of relief on that one, and now they're boldly pressing on to other targets and pretending like Thesp is off the table for some reason. It sits REALLY wrong with me and the content of his posts does not explain this phenomenon in my opinion.
Ether doesn't look town at all to me, CES bothers me, Zindaras bothers me, and the CDB wagon looks suspiciously scum-driven so I'm reading the fine print on that one.
MBL wrote:Ether doesn't look town at all to me, CES bothers me, Zindaras bothers me, and the CDB wagon looks suspiciously scum-driven so I'm reading the fine print on that one.
Explain this. Thesp and I have pushed CDB the most by far, and Fritz hopped aboard recently. A few other people have expressed passing suspicions of CDB, but nobody else has decided to ride the gravy train. You call Ether, CES, and Zindaras suspicions -- and none of them have expressed much suspicion of CDB (if any at all). Yet you think CDB's wagon is "suspiciously scum-driven"?
Just how many scums do you think are in this game?
Also, I think the cat's out of the bag on this one so I can spread the love on this bit of advice.
A godfather might shoot for high visibility on D1 depending on their normal playstyle. D2 however they'd almost certainly shoot for high profile in order to possibly pull investigations away from any of their scumpartners who might be in trouble. That behavior would be expected to possibly reverse or at least cease to be a priority when Adele claimed.
There are a few players who appear to fit this profile of ramping it up D2. See if you can spot them...
Glork wrote:Explain this. Thesp and I have pushed CDB the most by far, and Fritz hopped aboard recently. A few other people have expressed passing suspicions of CDB, but nobody else has decided to ride the gravy train. You call Ether, CES, and Zindaras suspicions -- and none of them have expressed much suspicion of CDB (if any at all). Yet you think CDB's wagon is "suspiciously scum-driven"?
Just how many scums do you think are in this game?
Taking the hypothesis that either Ether and/or Thesp is scum, which I believe is significantly likely to be true, that would mean that their scumpartners would be feverishly working on alternate wagons. Does that mean everyone on alternate wagons is scum? No, duh, cause it takes as many townies as scum to lynch a townie at this point. But if people are softpedaling Ether and Thesp and shuffling feet towards CDB I'm watching them.
The CDB wagon looks to me like people ignoring the elephants in the room to swat a bee. He also does not smell like a rose, but when Thesp and Fritz move on him like that--two people I saw potential alignment in yesterday--I'm wary.
Glork wrote:
I think I've got a good enough read on him that I can pretty confidently say that if I thought he were scum, I'd be all over him by now. I *would* like to see him contribute a little more, but I do not think we should be going after him for the time being. (That said, I've had only vague passing suspicions of you anyway, so I'm probably not the one who *should* be answering that question.)
See, this is why I keep getting the opinion that you and Fritz were claiming to be masons. That, or you are purposely trying to screw with us >:(
Ether wrote:
Post 855, Nightfall wrote:I hope that makes more sense now.
Okay. It wasn't really saying anything about scumminess or opinion or anything interesting at all, then. Pfeh, I was getting my hopes up.
An attack from Ether? oh well, it's not like I was expecting anything more...
Ether wrote:
Post 863, Glork wrote:So, um, Ether... why no hammer before you went to bed?
Well, I definitely had the chance. I dimly remember staring at his posts two hours before deadline trying to remember why I had offered the hammer. These thoughts were based on how scummy I found him as opposed to the parity issues I'd spoken of when I said I'd hammer, and my Thespscum thoughts have never gone very far.
Well thank you for clearing that up yesterday so that someone else could move on it... or wait...that never happend? oh yeah...
Ether wrote:
Glork wrote:Sound reminiscent of D2 when she said she'd hammer Thesp? Hmm.
I do not understand the significance of this remark.
It means your leading us on again. Maybe we'll go for another no lynch?
Glork wrote:
Nightfall: What are your thoughts on the non-lynch of Thesp yesterday? Do you think anybody is likely to be scummy for not dropping the hammer? Pro-town?
Although I was not a big fan of a possible Thesp lynch, I'd agree that it appears a little scummy for players who spoke that they were pro Thesp lynch and could have lynched him, yet did not do so. I personally was if I remember correctly was asleep at the deadline.
[quote ="Pat"]
Nightfall: I'm not watching him as closely as some others. Lurks at times. Didn't agree with some stuff he said about Andrew, though he sounds genuine enough. I'd put him at neutral.
Q: If I am unable to check the thread, and for that reason do not post, do you consider that lurking? I'm really just curious.
Glork wrote:
I think I've got a good enough read on him that I can pretty confidently say that if I thought he were scum, I'd be all over him by now. I *would* like to see him contribute a little more, but I do not think we should be going after him for the time being. (That said, I've had only vague passing suspicions of you anyway, so I'm probably not the one who *should* be answering that question.)
See, this is why I keep getting the opinion that you and Fritz were claiming to be masons. That, or you are purposely trying to screw with us >:(
Ether wrote:
Post 855, Nightfall wrote:I hope that makes more sense now.
Okay. It wasn't really saying anything about scumminess or opinion or anything interesting at all, then. Pfeh, I was getting my hopes up.
An attack from Ether? oh well, it's not like I was expecting anything more...
Ether wrote:
Post 863, Glork wrote:So, um, Ether... why no hammer before you went to bed?
Well, I definitely had the chance. I dimly remember staring at his posts two hours before deadline trying to remember why I had offered the hammer. These thoughts were based on how scummy I found him as opposed to the parity issues I'd spoken of when I said I'd hammer, and my Thespscum thoughts have never gone very far.
Well thank you for clearing that up yesterday so that someone else could move on it... or wait...that never happend? oh yeah...
Ether wrote:
Glork wrote:Sound reminiscent of D2 when she said she'd hammer Thesp? Hmm.
I do not understand the significance of this remark.
It means your leading us on again. Maybe we'll go for another no lynch?
Glork wrote:
Nightfall: What are your thoughts on the non-lynch of Thesp yesterday? Do you think anybody is likely to be scummy for not dropping the hammer? Pro-town?
Although I was not a big fan of a possible Thesp lynch, I'd agree that it appears a little scummy for players who spoke that they were pro Thesp lynch and could have lynched him, yet did not do so. I personally was if I remember correctly was asleep at the deadline.
[quote ="Pat"]
Nightfall: I'm not watching him as closely as some others. Lurks at times. Didn't agree with some stuff he said about Andrew, though he sounds genuine enough. I'd put him at neutral.
[/quote]
Q: If I am unable to check the thread, and for that reason do not post, do you consider that lurking? I'm really just curious.
Nightfall wrote:Q: If I am unable to check the thread, and for that reason do not post, do you consider that lurking? I'm really just curious.
No, that's just not being around. Lurking is when you are around but don't post. I don't have you down as a lurker such as CDB or Ether, but you've done it at times.
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
MrBuddyLee wrote:Also, I think the cat's out of the bag on this one so I can spread the love on this bit of advice.
A godfather might shoot for high visibility on D1 depending on their normal playstyle. D2 however they'd almost certainly shoot for high profile in order to possibly pull investigations away from any of their scumpartners who might be in trouble. That behavior would be expected to possibly reverse or at least cease to be a priority when Adele claimed.
I think you are overthinking/exaggerating the likelihood of Godfather tendencies.
MrBuddyLee wrote:Taking the hypothesis that either Ether and/or Thesp is scum, which I believe is significantly likely to be true, that would mean that their scumpartners would be feverishly working on alternate wagons. Does that mean everyone on alternate wagons is scum? No, duh, cause it takes as many townies as scum to lynch a townie at this point. But if people are softpedaling Ether and Thesp and shuffling feet towards CDB I'm watching them.
You have an awful lot of scum going around in this suggestion, it seems to me.
MrBuddyLee wrote:The CDB wagon looks to me like people ignoring the elephants in the room to swat a bee.
That's funny, I was thinking the opposite - why had there been so few to pick up and pressure CDB when it looks incredibly likely that he's scum? I have a thought on why that is - the more I look like scum, the more my attacks on CDB seem crazy. Now that people are going back and looking at CDB after getting some breathing room (no deadline pressure), there's legitimate suspicion there. I find it interesting that your defense of CDB seems to revolve around his wagon being an alternative to mine (and Ether's, to a lesser extent), and skirts how flaimingly scummy ChannelDelibird actually is.
"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -
