Red Wine Mafia: Game Over

[Tammy]

Llamarble is being adorably arrogant. This is a good sign.

[Tammy]

Tammy

HUUUUUU

I would not have expected those two to come in at the bottom tier pregame <_<
Maybe their scumgames are actually as weak as they always claim
I'd kinda expect them to have fun as scum if scum together though, so it seems more likely the lack of a TAMMYPIRE is a 1town-1scum.

I'm just going to go with you're not allowed to give reads on me anymore.

dude you have no idea how weak my scum game is.

I'd imagine if we ever got to be scum together we'd just bus each other because fuck win conditions, bragging rights last forever!

[Tammy]

[
Llama- you ever gonna tell us why Katsuki is town? Is it just from Silver Bard?

Did you read Silver Bard's posts?

[Tammy]

Cabd - How often does ffery italicize words?

[Cephrir]

[
Llama- you ever gonna tell us why Katsuki is town? Is it just from Silver Bard?

Did you read Silver Bard's posts?

Yeah, but he kept saying Katsuki rather than SB, so I thought there was something else.

[fferyllt]

I was having trouble deciding on a top suspect between Espeon and ffery. Other scumleans include ABR and Pjo.

I guess what it boils down to is, I've seen you be town quite a few times, and I've doubted you a couple of those times, but in none of those cases did you look like this! I don't agree with your objection that people aren't playing mafia- we do have some lurkers, and we do have Pjo not really playing, but that's not that big a deal. You recovered a little with the Tammy interaction but it's not enough for me.

Even though I like the Espeonage wagon, it's a little scary, because ffery's on it and because Mindgamer's vote was so bad. So for now I'm gonna go with this. I'm worried about possibly costing the town a valuable asset, but I can't let that hold me back all the damn time.

VOTE: ffery

More on this story as it develops! I may also try looking at fferyscum again even though I failed pretty savagely at it in Hard Boiled.

:/

You've never played with scum-me so it's at least a little understandable that my play here rings alarms. Cabd on the other hand knows that I'm not a ball of fire in every town game, so if he's town he's not going to have a whole lot of excuse for misreading me after my eventual flip.

Would you expect that Syry would be able to read you just as well or differently than you expect Cabd to read you? Because, in mafia.raptured when Syry was reading you completely wrong, you didn't set up this preemptive blame to get him to change his read; you tried to work with him.

At the time of Raptured? No, I didn't think it was strange that town-Syr would misread me in that game. Even though he was misreading me, Syr did keep talking to me when he was around and did figure me out eventually. He's a lot better at reading me now, but not perfect.

Among other reasons why I'd hope Cabd would get this right is the fact that he read the Rapture game while it was in progress, as well as probably ever other game I've played since he joined MS. And he was part of nearly all the scum games I've played in that time. If I were scum with town-him scumreading me, I'd probably assume that meta points to my being scum unequivocally and play an extremely quiet, low-interaction game, like I wound up doing in the Chef game.

Since I'm not scum, I'm assuming that he's misinterpreting meta and/or my play here, or the available meta

as he interprets it

doesn't differentiate my town game well enough, or this isn't a meta-based read at all. Or he's scum and he thinks I'm mislynchable. I can squint and just barely see a possibility that Cabd is so convinced I'm scum that there's no point in considering the possibility of being wrong or in doing anything active to refine the read.

[fferyllt]

Not much need to figure the rest of the game out right now if we already have ABR.

One scum at a time~

My IQ may only be this high once in November. Caffeine is a powerful drug and must be maximized.
I will VOTE: ABR though. This is the chosen wagon of the townblock.

Can one of you explain why ABR?

[Cephrir]

I'll give my reasoning for suspecting him if that's an adequate substitute.

He isn't scumhunting; he focused on a total bullshit tell from Pjovek for quite a while and seemed to take his own RVS reason seriously; his posts are waaaaay too interested in pleasing everyone (170, 172, 330). His post 91 is a bad reaction to Pjovek's vote (na na na you can't prooooove anything- sounds like a player who just joined the site...) He's been tunneling Mindgamer as though he's really really sure the guy is scum with only this reasoning:

He posted two images and the following post:

I don't care if hes scum or not, Hes getting lynched, we can figure out who the scum are day 2. Hes never going to be anything but disruptive, and is a detriment to the game whether hes scum or not.

Is this assumption based on earlier experience with Pjovek or just on these three pages?

That said, I'll happily join the joker wagon.

Unvote. Vote: Pjovek

I am out of RVS.

This is slightly suspicious (compared to everyone else), because I'd expect scum to ask a question like this and join a bandwagon, seems like a safe move.

To be frank, I voted Pjovek without even reading the next 3 pages, and when I did see the bandwagon on him, I was happy to keep my vote there because we generally get better reads with pressure.

"This is slightly suspicious". And then he later says everyone else is townie- it reads like he doesn't want to attract attention or make enemies to me.

Personally I also find his tone to be really awkward, but I imagine I'll be disagreed with there.

Also, in post 409 where he responds to me, I feel like he should have been weirded out by Katsuki hopping off him and onto his target, but he wasn't.

[mykonian]

votecount

espeonage (5): empire, tammy, projectmatt, fferyllt, mindgamer
Albert B. Rampage (2): katsuki, Llamarble
fferyllt (2): cabd, cephrir
mindgamer (1): Albert B. Rampage
pjovek (1): chamber
chamber (1): pjovek
T S O (1): crashtextdummie

Not voting (2): TSO, espeonage

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

[Espeonage]

ffery is still talking about cabd

Vote: ffery

[fferyllt]

ffery is still talking about cabd

Vote: ffery

You think I should ignore a direct question to me from another player?

[fferyllt]

I'll give my reasoning for suspecting him if that's an adequate substitute.

He isn't scumhunting; he focused on a total bullshit tell from Pjovek for quite a while and seemed to take his own RVS reason seriously; his posts are waaaaay too interested in pleasing everyone (170, 172, 330). His post 91 is a bad reaction to Pjovek's vote (na na na you can't prooooove anything- sounds like a player who just joined the site...) He's been tunneling Mindgamer as though he's really really sure the guy is scum with only this reasoning:

He posted two images and the following post:

I don't care if hes scum or not, Hes getting lynched, we can figure out who the scum are day 2. Hes never going to be anything but disruptive, and is a detriment to the game whether hes scum or not.

Is this assumption based on earlier experience with Pjovek or just on these three pages?

That said, I'll happily join the joker wagon.

Unvote. Vote: Pjovek

I am out of RVS.

This is slightly suspicious (compared to everyone else), because I'd expect scum to ask a question like this and join a bandwagon, seems like a safe move.

To be frank, I voted Pjovek without even reading the next 3 pages, and when I did see the bandwagon on him, I was happy to keep my vote there because we generally get better reads with pressure.

"This is slightly suspicious". And then he later says everyone else is townie- it reads like he doesn't want to attract attention or make enemies to me.

Personally I also find his tone to be really awkward, but I imagine I'll be disagreed with there.

Also, in post 409 where he responds to me, I feel like he should have been weirded out by Katsuki hopping off him and onto his target, but he wasn't.

Why do you have to post something like this when I'm trying to work up to full-bore paranoia about you?

Yeah, I'm thinking you're town.

espeonage not so much. I like my vote there even more after that vote-hop.

[T S O]

Wrong. Two more tries.

Why are you asking your scumread why you're voting them, and why are you doing it in a cynical, time-wasting manner?

Mind as well do this today.

Unvote, Vote: ABR

A shameless vote hop, I just don't get it.

Unvote

I'll come up with a better spot for this vote later, it really didn't serve its purpose where it was.

Tammy is still my biggest read, empire pings me as pretty terrible for not mentioning at all where his scum reads lie. However I'm not seeing this supposed empire/tammy thing that Llama seems to.

I get the impression that one of Cabd and ffery is scum, but I really can't point out which one. One is stringing along another to stay away from having to engage with the rest of the game, just not sure which way that goes. And I want this isolated banter to end. So if you are the townie in that couple, please make an active attempt to get into the gritty of todays play. If only so we can get a good read on the other.

Outside of them, I'm not getting anything bigger than little pings from various people for isolated reasons. Still not happy with Mindgamer, I'm hoping ABR gets more interested closer to deadline otherwise he's pinging me, I have no read whatsoever on Project thus far. Everyone else is sitting in my town to townish pool.

I want to name this guy Supersaint because I don't want him lynched ever ever ever just for this.

Okay I thought the ffery/cabd dance would be interesting, but it's not.

I told you Tammy, it used to work. It doesn't anymore.

[T S O]

Tammy. Hey tammy. The question was posed such that "is this something unique to her town game" was sufficiently disproved with a link to a scumgame where you did the behavior. Get over it. All this bitching about how this is so obviously town you is so alignment non-indicative anyways.

I'd rather be playing video games than catching up with mafia after the week I've had. Is that alignment indicative?

I do both, simultaneously. It doesn't work, but good times are always had.

Well some guy I met at the game store tonight recommended dragon age so it's either that or assassin's creed or skyrim cuz I need to kill some dragon dude.

Skyrim. It's not just a cliché, it's great great great.

It's good to have things going on in parallel.
Tammy-Empire ought to bring good things, and ffery-cabd also seems to be leading to good things.

If you're feeling left out, you could keep attacking Chamber-town for a while until we lynch you for it?

Something might have come out of it 10 pages ago but now they're just repeating the same meta shit over and over without ever saying anything so it's just clutter by now

Thank you.

Tammy

HUUUUUU

I would not have expected those two to come in at the bottom tier pregame <_<
Maybe their scumgames are actually as weak as they always claim
I'd kinda expect them to have fun as scum if scum together though, so it seems more likely the lack of a TAMMYPIRE is a 1town-1scum.

I'm just going to go with you're not allowed to give reads on me anymore.

dude you have no idea how weak my scum game is.

I'd imagine if we ever got to be scum together we'd just bus each other because fuck win conditions, bragging rights last forever!

LIAR LIAR LIAR

Your scum game actually has me paranoid so I want to call you Town but I'm so scared of doing it because it's like when I sorta thought Tierce was scum but "town" Tammy led me away subtly and I knew Tierce was scum but my townread manipulated me and I felt so used and I don't know where this is going but I basically want to explain to the game how dangerous you are.

[Katsuki]

Mind as well do this today.

Unvote, Vote: ABR

A shameless vote hop, I just don't get it.

A shameless scum post, I just don't get it.

[fferyllt]

I want to name this guy Supersaint because I don't want him lynched ever ever ever just for this.

damnit

I wanted to refute your read, so I went back to his ISO to pull some posts that I didn't like from earlier, and on reread I'm not hating them. Some of them I even like.

Unvote

I'm going to try a complete reread.

[Katsuki]

Unvote

I'll come up with a better spot for this vote later, it really didn't serve its purpose where it was.

Tammy is still my biggest read, empire pings me as pretty terrible for not mentioning at all where his scum reads lie. However I'm not seeing this supposed empire/tammy thing that Llama seems to.

I get the impression that one of Cabd and ffery is scum, but I really can't point out which one. One is stringing along another to stay away from having to engage with the rest of the game, just not sure which way that goes. And I want this isolated banter to end. So if you are the townie in that couple, please make an active attempt to get into the gritty of todays play. If only so we can get a good read on the other.

Outside of them, I'm not getting anything bigger than little pings from various people for isolated reasons. Still not happy with Mindgamer, I'm hoping ABR gets more interested closer to deadline otherwise he's pinging me, I have no read whatsoever on Project thus far. Everyone else is sitting in my town to townish pool.

I want to name this guy Supersaint because I don't want him lynched ever ever ever just for this.

Please walk me through your thought process as to how this is town.

[Katsuki]

I want to name this guy Supersaint because I don't want him lynched ever ever ever just for this.

damnit

I wanted to refute your read, so I went back to his ISO to pull some posts that I didn't like from earlier, and on reread I'm not hating them. Some of them I even like.

Unvote

I'm going to try a complete reread.

[fferyllt]

No vote, don't want to make enemies?

It's usually the first vote switch that makes enemies.

Hi everyone. I might have rolled vigilante this game, and if I have I will shoot a lurker/inactive player. So stay active or get shot (maybe)

I also may or may not be a vig. If I am, I will shoot the first player to make more than 100 posts on D1.

It's k tho, I know it'll never happen. Even he does not really want it. His mind tells him he should want it, but his heart is not in it.

Pjovek, do you happen to know Chamber's alignment? It's okay, it not too late to confess.

vote: Pjovek

Slight pings from TSO. Espeonage makes a rather poor choice for an early day wagon.

I like this post, though I disagree with the vote. Noting his stance on Espeonage, which I like a little better on reread.

Not in the way you mean it.
I am however perfectly capable of reading people and reaching conclusions.

Do you habitually antagonize people you are town reading? Why are you town reading him?

Espeonage makes a rather poor choice for an early day wagon.

Why?

Because he's the closest I have to a town read at this point. His rustiness reads as sincere to me.

Why no walls yet CTD?

I'm fresh out of bricks.

I don't trust anyone's meta on Pjovek. Projectmatt's page 3 read of him is suspect to me. Same goes for TSO's page 5 read. Both players were denouncing the wagon without proposing an alternative. TSO is still not voting. Neither player has shown any interest in figuring out players or moving the game along. TSO gets bonus scum-points for threatening to vig an alleged town read.

unvote, vote: TSO

Empire, what's your read on Tammy so far?

What is it about these meta reads that you don't trust? I can't tell if you distrust the meta because you're scumreading the players or you're scumreading the players because you distrust the meta. You indicated some concern about TSO in the earlier post, so maybe it's some of both?

[fferyllt]

Reading through ISOs, I got a strong impression that she's just kinda floating through the early game, not really making any effort to develop reads or sort anyone.

That's why your voting me? It's probably sillier than why I thought your original reason was for.

As far as feeling like I'm floating, that's probably a town tell for me so thanks for pointing it out. No, seriously at my other site me *not* feeling like I'm floating early day one has often been a cause for concern. I much much prefer to observe early game than push something, and this player list allows me to do just that.

And the other part is a flat out lie. I have a couple pretty decent town reads, ham watching how you/cabd play out, am looking to interact with empire, which is quite frankly the most important thing to me early game. If I can figure out if we're on the same team and the same wavelength, this game will go much more smoothly.

I'm trying to figure out if this push is real or if you saw espeonage asking about me/saw cabd responding and with his vote on you thought this would be a good distraction especially considering you haven't even tried to interact with me, and if you *do* remember our last game where I was scum I made sure to make it look like I was "scumhunting" immediately.

Rereading this, I'm seeing we made a disconnect re the bolded. "not really making any effort" meant that I didn't see you pursuing lines of questioning. Your reads refinement looks like it's based mostly on what's being left in the thread from other players' interactions. And your own prior paragraph actually reinforces that - observing rather than pushing.

I don't get a lot of data from watching people in observation mode, hence my deciding to interact.

[fferyllt]

It's mindgamer. We should lynch mindgamer.

You Town-looking bastard you.

[/quote]

When I read this, I went back to see where your vote is, and rediscovered that you're not voting. You've FoSed Katsuki. You've expressed paranoia about Tammy. You've clucked disapprovingly at a few players.

What are your reads?

[fferyllt]

^^ actually you've indicated a couple of town reads as well. It's just disconcerting that given the length of time and lack of vote that you haven't closed with someone and really tried to sort them.

[fferyllt]

He posted two images and the following post:

I don't care if hes scum or not, Hes getting lynched, we can figure out who the scum are day 2. Hes never going to be anything but disruptive, and is a detriment to the game whether hes scum or not.

Is this assumption based on earlier experience with Pjovek or just on these three pages?

That said, I'll happily join the joker wagon.

Unvote. Vote: Pjovek

I am out of RVS.

This is slightly suspicious (compared to everyone else), because I'd expect scum to ask a question like this and join a bandwagon, seems like a safe move.

To be frank, I voted Pjovek without even reading the next 3 pages, and when I did see the bandwagon on him, I was happy to keep my vote there because we generally get better reads with pressure.

You voted mindgamer because this post was apparently the most suspicious thing in the thread at that point. Is that still the case? It seems like pretty thin gruel to be pushing for lynch 20 pages into the game.

[fferyllt]

Empire, your posts have a sort of consultant feel to them. It worries me.

[CrashTextDummie]

Lucky me.

Anyway, Silver Bard seems town from his sheer enthousiasm. His posts exudes townyness. That makes Katsuki a townread. TSO and Pjovek also read town.
Scum... Espeonage mainly. It doesn't feel like he's making much of a stance. It's pretty lame to vote the biggest wagon in my ketchup post, but I'm still going to do it.

Unvote. Vote: Espeonage

And... yeah. Not much worth commenting on so far. Feel free to ask me any questions, I'll frequent this thread today.

Pretty terrible post. Not so much the vote itself, but the fact that he's making excuses for the vote as he's placing it. Does not sound like a legitimate suspicion.

---------------

Llamarble feels off. His read lists reek of gamesmanship:

Yeah, still nothing particularly wrong with ABR. No pronouncement of inviolability though.
Cbad is very likely to be town.

This game is coming along nicely!

Marble

Chamber
Kat
cAbD

CTD

Judgement reserved. So much soooooooop
ABR
Cephrir
Espeonage
Ffery
Mindgamer
Pjovek is scum whether or not he's mafia.
TSO

Projectmatt

Empire
Tammy

HUUUUUU

I would not have expected those two to come in at the bottom tier pregame <_<
Maybe their scumgames are actually as weak as they always claim
I'd kinda expect them to have fun as scum if scum together though, so it seems more likely the lack of a TAMMYPIRE is a 1town-1scum.

Underlined feels insincere. Same goes for his multiball speculation. And the way he went from "nothing wrong with ABR" in the quoted post to "ABR is scum". And his Empire scum-read which he won't get into until "further developments". There's really not much right with his play so far.

----------------

Tammy and Cephrir join Espeonage and projectmatt as town reads. I'm tentatively putting Cabd there as well.

Of the existing wagons, Fferyllt looks the most appealing by far. The overall thrust of her posts is familiar, but it feels like she's engaging with only a narrow selection of players and I don't get the impression that she's trying to figure the game out as is her usual style. This is what I imagine scum-Ffery trying to emulate her town play looks like.

unvote, vote: Fferyllt