N's Notably Narcissistic Nonsensical Namesake (game over)

[ooba]

Vote: theloveofneroandmollie
Vote: theloveofneroandmollie

[ooba]

The question you need to ask yourself with respect to SleepyKrew is "Would scum go ahead and do that?" - and while this opens up a can of WIFOM, I would put a "negative utility" claim in the {high risk, low payoff} strategy for scum - so, probably not scum for now is where I would put him.

neroandmollie:

He did vote for SK on Page 1 but Page 2 posting talks about the vote count being wrong and MUM's opinion on peacebringer? Vibe of "Keep up activity levels" of posting scum play.

Dante:

Just a single vote on SK and nothing else? Prob. newbie scum afraid to say anything (unless he's an alt)

[ooba]

@Dante:

"What more is there to say. Most likely he's claiming Miller. It's Day 1. Eliminate the WIFOM seems like the way to go. Why the defense?"

Not a fan of the lynch to test negative utility claim strategy. Leave it to the possible vig to decide whether SK should be shot - and even that shouldn't be a certainty based on claim alone. I'm not defending SK - I was attacking you for not posting anything else except the vote.

@TLoN&M:

No opinion\read on Peace yet. If you're leaning a "lil' scummy" on peace, why are you voting SK instead of peace? (Now you've voted PB, but I wrote this at Page 3 where you were pushing Peace but weren't voting him

Spotted by Dante:

"also if you think pb is scum, and far more people have expressed a similar suspicion, why are you unvoting him for me?"

No read on PB yet - but if dopog is scum, PB has good chances of being his partner

@Kats:

"

Ooba, your thoughts on PB and SK? Also why nero?

"
PB - no read
SK - Prob. town for claim\no read from play+posting
Nero - See below

---

Reads for now

Town:

Shadowy Poison - Town for echoing my thoughts on dopog=scum -> PB=scum

Neutral+:

Race Tracer - General vibe

Neutral-:

TLoN&M - Page 2 was odd; still suspicious for pushing PB without voting; scum read slightly mitigated because of his suspicions on DeasVail, dopog. Slotted as scum read where intensity of earlier scum read has reduced. Do not want to lynch over stronger scum reads.

Scummy:

DeasVail: Gives a scummy vibe - hard to pin down why though. (And I'm not even taking the multiball speculation into account; meh on that)
One of {Dante, Vierra Assassin}: for newbie scum - Both give vibe of possible newbie scum scared of posting content.
dopog: Both posts just scream scum for me.

Other notes:
mnmonicdevice - Town if Dopog flips scum
Race Tracer - Town if TLoN&M is scum

Unvote. Vote: dopog

[ooba]

did you see what we wrote about dopog in response to rail tracer? cos wow there is something we have in common but your response was to fos us for....

scumreading a couple of players while simultaneously naming a scum partners when 1 of the players we are looking at is the same 1 you are voting for?

Page 2 was odd; still suspicious for pushing PB without voting;

scum read slightly mitigated because of his suspicions on DeasVail, dopog.

Slotted as scum read where intensity of earlier scum read has reduced. Do not want to lynch over stronger scum reads.

The PB thing still nags me; but Nero's posting makes me think it could be attributable to a playstyle difference we have. As I mention, you started off as a scummy read on Page 3 and other posting has reduced that earlier read.

---

VOTE: Shadowy Poison
You have 1 (one) post of content, and you didn't even follow up that post.

Why single out Shadow - but not mention Luna or Vifam who didn't even post at this time?

[ooba]

Unvote.
Vote: Katsuki

[ooba]

Coming to the bottom of this page though someone kill NEro for me thanks.

Oh PB too, and judging from the VC, ooba. (If my slot ever dies and flips town, instalynch ooba thanks)

Replace out

Hahaha... 305 was bad but this post makes me feel even better about my vote..

[ooba]

398: When I voted Kats, it was solely based on the scumminess of post 305. The replace out post seemed "not genuine" - For the most part Kats suspected PB; nero a bit at the end - but "if flip town, instalynch ooba"? - that part at the end feels tacked on and has the vibe of scum lashing out hoping something sticks.

@Nani:

Other reads apart from PB? If PB is scum, who are the scumbuddies?

In other news, Andy's entry posts look town. I haven't played with either of MuM - unable to read for now.

Out of game, but what's with the Saki hate?

[ooba]

because fuck you, stop ignoring me, bbmolla

?

What am I ignoring?

HEY BBMOLLA,

I KNOW YOU'RE READING MY POSTS, SO STOP AVOIDING 219

[ooba]

6 days to go - got to start moving to a lynch.. Of all current wagons, these two are the ones I support: PeregrineV, dopog.

[ooba]

God, this geme, someone tell me who I should vote and why.

PeregrineV (or) dopog - both have scummy posts - you pick between the two.

[ooba]

I'm going to have

limited access for the next two days

- please move towards a lynch. Let's not leave getting claims (and changing lynch candidates if necessary) till the last minute..

@Luna: Your Shadowy poison vote is wasted.

[ooba]

Let's chat. Which of my posts were scummy, and why?

Katsuki's 305 and 374.

@N: Do we get a deadline extension or lynch threshold reduction because of the pending replacements?

[ooba]

@PV:
Katsuki = your player slot. I don't differentiate between the two. Perhaps "Katsuki (or) dopog - both have scummy posts - and if you find Katsuki scummy, vote PV" is clearer wording.

@Mit: I was experimenting with hidden double vote mechanics. (10 to lynch with 17 players and all)

---

Damn these ambiguous claims. "I'm already on PV, people are just gonna get suckered into the "confirmable town role" thing.". @Diabolik: We're not going to get a PV lynch today for these reasons.

I agree with BBMolla - The movement to dopog gives me a mislynch vibe.

---

I really hate DV's last few posts:

The people asking for more are silly.

Too quick to buy in to the claim.

Dopog is an ok lynch, but there's nothing exciting there for me.

Proceeds to vote Dopog the next post. This is same person who wanted to try and flash wagon somebody a couple of days back - I would assume, they'd at least try here.

---

Unvote. Vote: DeasVail

I'll be fairly active before deadline so I can switch my vote to avoid a no-lynch. Those who fall into the same bucket of "active" and "can switch votes close to deadline, if necessary" and consider DV more suspicious than dopog might want to hop to this counterwagon.

[ooba]

Wouldn't your role PM tell you if you were a double-voter? Why would you need to experiment?

Also, shouldn't everyone be buying Pere's claim, at least for now? That is, if his role is confirmable, presumably he will take steps to confirm it by tomorrow. And if he does not, he lied, therefore lynch. At least that's what seems to me to be the best course of action. So, Deas jumping on a secondary suspect with an existing wagon seems fine to me.

Not necessary on the double vote thing. A situation like a double-vote enabler (player that grants double vote to another player each day) for example.
I agree with you - lynching Pere isn't the best strategy with his claim and moving to another wagon is fine. It's the statement "asking for more is silly" - it seems to accept the claim too readily - almost as if he knows it's true. Contrast this with the skepticism present in other posters.

---

What abou tgetting Dante?
guys u realize Dog is v/la and we risk to hit a PR?
since he has no chances to claim?

I think Race has conviced you on the "not lynching Pere today" part. I'm not getting traction with a DV counter wagon; Dante looks like a better bet to actually get lynched. Let's do this.

Unvote. Vote: Dante

[ooba]

@Deas

- Some parts of 759 are defending something which I didn't accuse you of
- I agree that PV's claim makes it obvious he's not the lynch today
- I'll also grant that we didn't have enough time to lynch as compared to the previous VA counter wagon. But you did mention that dopog was just an "ok lynch" - you're fairly active - could have pursed a counter wagon and then jumped back onto dopog if that didn't work out.
- I also agree that PV claiming further at the point was a bad idea.
- The major problem I had however was the fact that I did not detect any skepticism. Almost as if you knew PV's claim was true. (i.e you=scum, he=town)
Note: Reverse logic does hold true for the same post. I can never see a scum buddy being so accepting of fellow scum's claim - so if PV flips scum, you're def. not his scum buddy.

---

Re-read the game.. My thoughts on a dopog flip

If dopog flips scum
-> PB: scum++
-> RT: town++
-> Nani: town++
-> ShadowyPoison: town+
-> Scum Possiblity - Dante: For trying to paint my counter wagons as "scum avoiding a dopog wagon" and trying to link me to dopog
->

Scum longshot possibility - BBMolla: - because the question directed to him in 466 appears random.

Removed because of "Dopog is probably a mislynch, but I'll hop on to get a lynch." - a paranoid person can view this as further proof of linkage - but this is the exact same view I had of the dopog wagon at that time - I cannot see scum faking that.

If dopog flips town
-> mnemonic: scum+

I'll be here before deadline, to hammer if necessary.

[ooba]

Hey N - I was just about to post...

@BBMolla: Why did you claim when you did?

@Radiant: You need to full claim.

[ooba]

@BBMolla: Why did you claim when you did?

I'm not willing to setup speculate yet. If we take everything at claimed value, I have a problem with the timing of the claim:
-> BB investigates RC in N1
--> He gets a guilty result . (He's stated in thread that he believes RC should be "fairly confirmed town" in the absence of a framer)

-> D2 starts. RC claims a guilty on Peacebringer.

Now put yourself in BB's place right now. Some one you believe is "fairly confirmed town" just claimed a guilty result. Why wouldn't I just lynch the target? Why would I claim at that point?
- It confuses everyone
- It narrows down the possible townies with "useful" power roles list for scum to target at night

Unvote. Vote: BBMolla

[ooba]

The timeline makes a lot of sense and this is town posting "If it helps at all, this isn't a gambit. It'd be really fucking stupid if it was.".

@BB: Is RC the paranoid cop in your QT? That would explain the "guilty" and her lack of vote as well.

Unovte. Vote: mnemonicdevice

[ooba]

Not sure I want BB or anyone to make a claim about the number of people in their QT, though. That's not good information to give to scum, I think.

I actually think the reverse i.e. that it's information worth knowing. If there are more than BB and RC in the neighbourhood - say 3 or 4, I'd wager for sure that there's one scum in it.

If it's just the two of them, then it can go either way - if it's 1 scum, 1 town - the scum would be RC since she claimed first in thread and BB's motivations have town reasoning.

[ooba]

I'm off for a vacation for four days. I'll still be able to checkin everyday - do not expect massive posts since I'll be posting from the mobile though.

[ooba]

I feel fairly good about RC atm.

Likewise.

[ooba]

RC is my strongest town read. Im not that sure of scum mnemonic - need to reread the game to find connections.

@Mit: You voiced suspicions of Mnemonic in D1. Does that still hold good now? Setup/Role claims aside, if menomic is scum, who is scum with him?

[ooba]

Back home - going to give this game the reread it needs once I'm back from work.

[ooba]

ooba is V/LA for four days.

I'm back from V/LA.

[ooba]

Im back - I'm drunk but I feel inspired enough to do my re-read now...

[ooba]

Peace - do you have any completed games on record after your return to the site?

[ooba]

Im back - I'm drunk but I feel inspired enough to do my re-read now...

Sorry - I slept off at Page 3 yesterday. Now at Page 20 - exhausting though..

[ooba]

Did not realise we are this close to deadline. I have finished my re-read and I'm immensely glad I did it because I think I've caught scum. Also - I'm not doing a chornological order of notes - just posting notes relevant to each read. (Note: I might have screwed up links)

Spoiler: Pairing notes

Pairing notes

Not as important as reads since they are all conditional - but am confident about these.
PV is not scum with Peace: Kinda obvious with current posting but I got this from Kat's 22/23 where she says "scumposting" to Peace but votes SK.
- Mit is not scum with DV: Interactions on post 180-184 are just weird
Post 246
- Maj is not scum with RC
- Maj is not scum with Luna
- Longshot: Maj is scum with SP
Post 292
- Luna not scum with DV
Post 295/296
- PB not scum with DV
Post 329
- BB is not scum with Katsuki
Post 495
- SD is definitely town if Nani is scum
Page 26
-

SD is not scum with Nani

- I don't like that Nani's null again in 545
881
- Mit is not scum with BB

Town

Race:

My Strongest town read. A lot of what he's said mirrored my thoughts or were relatable.
- Towntell on 72 for picking up on 56

DaesVail:

A reversal from D1. Town - not as strong as race though.
- Towntell on 86 - good case on PB.

Dante:

Another reversal from D1. Town - not sure I agree with playstyle but the tone and the "I dont give a damn" is definitely not scum.
- 500 was a big towntell for me
- 321/322/324 was milder

RC:

I think BB is scum - that makes RC town. But even otherwise RC's late D1 push and today's play+push are town-town-town.

Thoughts on some others

On Reading Page 6, Kats (PV) didn't look as bad as I thought she was before. Regarding PB - Started off the re-read and thought he was def. scum in the first few pages, then that read got neutered a bit. I haven't gone through the meta links yet.

I'm leaning town on PV. Can't say the same for PB yet. Two others who I was leaning town on D1 (Maj and SD) are now neutral. I like everything about SD except his Molla support in 917 and 1056.

Surprisingly I didnt get much of a read on mnem. The only post of note was 479 where I thought he misrepped DV's case on Luna.

Scum

Nani

- On D1, Nani's minimal posting + sticking to one suspect was scummy (331)
- Not as strong as top three

MUM

- Not commenting on SK\Peace at this point (32)
- Why mention Luna here? (158)
- Votes BBM and calls BBM town in the same post (883)
- Whatever RT says in 438 (437)

Luna

- 292 is a very long post followed up by a weak vote. 556 was a better read post but Luna's posts have been very lackluster - not the scumhunting I expect from Nacho.
- Page 41 sort of freaked me out since I have BBM and Luna as my top scum reads. But the weak jump off in 1017-1018 shows it for the mild bussing attempt it was.

BBM

- D1: The entire vote & unvote on SK was scummy. No real reasons for this phrase "I think he's just scum for his postings." in 56. SK had made very few posts at that time and none of it was scummy. That later became voting SK for his claim. The subsequent unvote off the wagon "Revelations have me believing SK's role for the moment." was weak too (198)
- D2: The timing + some assumptions ("Framer is the most obvious and probable possibility with what we were given (See: Day 1's flip)" - in fact, I would assume Framer as the last possible role with a compulsive targeter) were weird.
But the most telling thing is that his reactions all have the vibe of frustrated scum who's not lying about the mod error and thinks that's why he's being put under the spotlight. When you look at this way, all these posts are telling:

"If it helps at all, this isn't a gambit. It'd be really fucking stupid if it was."
"At least confirm the mod error for me."
"Nach, if you think I'm scum fine, but I'm not going to fake a mod error."

BBM is clearly scum - I haven't been this sure of a scum read in a long time. Please join me and RC on this.

Unvote. Vote: BBM

[ooba]

Also, I did not want this part of the earlier post because I believe my case is strong enough without setup speculation but with Nero's role:

You are a

Numbered Normaliser

(in other words: a

2-Shot Normaliser

)

.
This means that, twice during the game, you can target one player at night. Starting the next day, that player's role will be changed to the nearest Normal equivalent. If there is a change, they will be informed.

The two cop neighbours would have become normal cops. That is overpowered if both of them are town - even with the framer. (esp. since they will be informed about it & since Nero using the normalizer on paranoid and naive cop would clear him since scum would never do that).

[ooba]

Ooba if the mod accidentally told you an incorrect result and people lynched you for it, would that not make you upset?

Well, it would upset me a whole lot more when I was scum rather than town. And I believe that feeling shows in the posts I quoted.

Nothing on the fact that Nero's role + RC + you could have lead to a situation with two cops running around in the town?

[ooba]

@Luna: Your DV vote that post seemed tacked on.

If there's a Vig, please take care of BBM.

mnemonicdevice, you're at L-1. Please claim.

[ooba]

Actually was just about to post this.

Mnem: Last visited:Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:54 am

Four posts in other games about two hours back and didn't post here.

[ooba]

@RC: It's also possible you're scum and BB isn't. You could be trying to get him lynched and then you'd go

"Whoops, sorry everyone, well I guess that clears me too, since we were neighbours and had similar powers".

If I had to choose between you and BB, I'd probably vote you over him largely because of your lack of a case for BB-scum, or mnem-town.
I wonder how BB feels over this betrayal from his neighbour. Tisk, tisk.

Yes - which one of the two people is more likely to do this? i.e. The person who said "she should be fairly confirmed town" or the one who's willing to go 1-1??

This is BB on mnem scum "For the record, I don't hate a mmnemnic device lynch, he's just a vig target anyway." - I don't find it much better than RC going "Also, Mnem was a terrible wagon.".

[ooba]

Last night I told him he's gonna feel bad when we both flip town, that's about all that's been in there.

Where's the doubt BB? How are you so sure Radiant is town??

Vote: BB

[ooba]

Last night I told him he's gonna feel bad when we both flip town, that's about all that's been in there.

I went back and checked - "I feel fairly good about RC atm." - you say this even after the mod admitted he made an error. What made you feel good about RC?

[ooba]

Luna, are you going to finish the rest of your reboot for the other 5 players?

I'm going to take a step back and re-read day two.

[ooba]

Wow. People who need to need Shadow's case should read D2 again.

- At post 920, SP asks a pointed question to Dia: "and speaking of him, Dia, what do you think of Militillos so far? why did you drop him from your initial list of suspicious people?"
- This reply from Dia was non-commital "yeah he is flying too low.. for sure 1/2 scum ae lurking."
- When pressed for details by Shadow again, Dia goes "who is dropped from my list?"

Dia doesn't get a chance to reply since he's replaced. Shadow again asks his replacement Maj about Mit. Maj says he doesn't read the case but votes Nani.

---

I'm slightly torn here as it is a very powerful link between the two of them but I liked SK on D1 and thought Dia was very townie on D2.

However, I'm willing to vote Mit.
- A lot of questions give me the vibe of someone who wants to look like he's active and scum hunting without doing so. A lot of posts addressed at RC\BBM, some of which asked for answers already available.
- Weak-ish reads. His D2 scummy candidate was mnem and other scum possibilities were {Nani, Pere, Peace} which is kinda weird because it's obvious that Pere and Peace were not scum together.
- When trying to spot his D3 suspicions, I noticed this - "@KMD: Why does Rail deserve your vote? Especially if you're not caught up, yet." - but he never questions Maj for doing the same on D2 when voting Nani. (Add one more link to the Maj-Mit pairing)

Unvote. Vote: Mitilos

If he flip scum, I'll reconsider voting Maj. Also, with 881, if Mit flips scum, I guess I was wrong about BBMolla.

[ooba]

*People who need to understand Shadow's case should read D2 again.

[ooba]

Nothing new to add

also did not realize I had not posted since Sunday... this game has really slowed to a crawl...
since folks appear to want to let PV go buy yet another day....
vote Mitillos

On D2, when the PV wagon wasn't happening - you voted Mitilos. Today you choose to vote KMD - why?

[ooba]

I have a feeling that we're moving towards

yet another

deadline lynch. Those who promised content should put in more time into this game.

I'll make a proper post tomorrow.

going to do some reading (probably tomorrow) and start putting some proper effort into this game. maybe.

---

@KidA:

That's all you have after the re-read?? What are your thoughts on the other players? Why is peacebringer scum?

[ooba]

What is the case on Mit?

Shadow's ISO if you have the time; my post is a good summary of his case.

[ooba]

RC, stop being a tunnelly shit, read my case on Mollatown, and tell me where I have gone wrong

read my case on Dia and tell me why I'm wrong there

and tell me why we are wrong about Mitillos being scum

you are both cops, AND with confirmed Sanity. do you really, really think that, even if it is a neighborhood and not a masonry, that there is even a slight chance that one of you two are scum?

If you're referring to this - It's not that convincing .

---

Rail's catch up is good. Right now I can see two possible lines of scum pairing
a) Maj - Mit
b) BBM - Luna
Somewhat mutually exclusive pairings since I dont think BBM-Mit are scum together. I can see KidA being a member of both groups.

Sup with the lack of any counterwagons whatsoever?

You can always take me as voting for BBM. If you want a counter wagon - switch over to BBM.

[ooba]

What is the case on Mit?

my post is a good summary of his case.

Link doesn't work for me for whatever reason, links to the first post in the thread.

Somehow I can never get the post tags to work - let me stick to URL tags.This post.

[ooba]

no that's not a PGO claim

massclaim today? yes / no?

i kind of want to sort this now

I'm against the massclaim for a couple of reasons
- There are some drawbacks to an early mass claim. One you lose the advantage of someone who scum thought was an easy mislynch becoming a confirmed role late in the game.
- The benefit of an early mass claim vs a late one is to catch scum by surprise since they cannot coordinate. PB's role makes it certain that scum have daytalk. We've lost that advantage.
- Most of the roles claimed now fall into the useless category. The unclaimed should have (hopefully) something better and I'd rather not give scum a map on who the best kills should be.

Assuming that my role is useful (which it's probably not), Mitillos is not the best lynch.

I would however like a full or partial claim about this.

[ooba]

How do you tell someone who is being active from someone who is trying to look active?

As for the answers being "readily available", this is only the case if you were to take BB's word as true, in advance. I do not propose to do this, because such assumptions are unwarranted.

Thought process.
Consider this for example.
- BB had already claimed he had a QT
- Peace had already claimed he was a day talk enabler
- You ask BB if his QT has day talk?
I'll let you work out what the problem is here.

Sure the Per\Peace thing might be a playstyle difference.

[ooba]

When I was reading DV's claim I thought "Yes - One regular cop + one paranoid cop who has a chance to get normalized + a mafia fakeclaim for naive cop who appears semi confirmed because of the naive\paranoid combo = good balance" - unfortunately, the innocent on BBM blows that theory out of the water.

But DV, why did you claim? It's clear from your posting that even you aren't too convinced with your result on Mitilos. However, if you were a useful regular cop - don't you think you've played your hand too early??

---

@ooba: Suppose BB (actually, I was asking RC, but whatever) said that they didn't have daytalk. What would you have done? If you are saying that my question was unnecessary, then you were accepting Peace's claim, without checking it. This is either foolish or scummy.

- Peace claimed QT daytalk enabler
- Now if BB\RC did not have day talk in his QT, he would have counterclaimed Peace right away!!
I tend not to favor the "find illogical arguments and push people on it" type of scum hunting much (because what most people consider 'tells' on this site are actually null) and am more a gut player. That's why I gave you another chance to think things through and clearly you can't put yourself in townie shoes. I love the "foolish or scummy" bit too.

I still had a lot of doubt when I voted Mit (esp. since it looked like BBM couldn't be scum with him) but his behaviour+replies are making me feel better about it.

[ooba]

Um, you were one of the people asking for more of a claim... (and I'm pretty sure my role is useless).

I meant the initial soft claim.

Why can't RC be the scumbag in that scenario?

RC's play looks too genuine to be faked. I can see where the BBM suspicion comes from.

---

- I'm not sure I like the KMD push
- I liked the fact that Mit put me in his town pile
I won't vote KMD but I'd be willing to switch to Luna

[ooba]

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-10-22 02:25:12)

N, how about a small deadline extension because of the replacement so Varsoon can catchup?

---

DV - my apologies if you missed that. Why did ya soft claim initially for Mitilos? (i.e. this bit - "Assuming that my role is useful (which it's probably not), Mitillos is not the best lynch.")

[ooba]

I thought PB's 1047 snipe at Luna was bad but after checking his ISO, I guess he's been suspicious of Luna for sometime.

---

We are tunnelling because we think we caught scum and this town is stagnating in a baaaaaaad way.

I hope this is true!

---

Race, help me out with your KMD read

1296 - In your catchup post, you're leaning towards kmd=not scum

i don't really think kmd is scum. nani looked townish, kmd himself is meh though. the attack on me is misguided and makes not a lot of sense, unless he thinks i'm scum who... killed PV instead of roleblocking him and trying to push his mislynch? i dunno what he's thinking there. i'm not really sure why he'd attack me as scum, though, when there are plenty of other candidates that are probably a lot easier to lynch than i am.

1297 - In the post where you list your reads , he sort of is the undecided pile; but I guess that makes sense since everyone above was town

1451 - However this part surprises me - "there's nothing that really looks town about his ISO." - when did this shift happen?

[ooba]

I'd say flashwagon KMD but it won't happen, so just wait till tomorrow.

Unvote. Vote: KMD

Let's do this then..

[ooba]

Also quick ISO on Mit - I think he's telling the truth about his role
- "@DV: Do you mean he wouldn't be informed of a change in his role?" - The observation about Nero's flip on normalizing shows he was concerned about how to remove the "negative\useless" part of his role
- "Every role we've seen so far was made up of two N-words and had two components to its description." - Self explanatory and genuine

[ooba]

Lunch break. Phone post. Nice etc

Nice etc?

Lemme reread the game a bit to reorient myself.

[ooba]

btw mass claim today? mass claim sounds good

Yup. Let's do the unclaimed people first and then do partial claims for the rest. For claims, I suggest popcorn method. i.e. one person starts claiming and chooses the next person to claim.

Unclaimed:

Luna
Varsoon (name and role claim left)
Shadowy
Maj
Dante
Rail

Partial claim:

- Mitilos N3 target
- RC N3 target and result
- BB N3 target and result (not sure about N2 here?)

Fully claimed:

Peace

I think Luna should claim first via Popcorn.

[ooba]

Vote: Mitillos

We are the

Nanny

, a.k.a. the Babysitter. We choose one player to protect from a kill each night, but if we are targeted for the kill, then both of us die.

N1 we were on molla
N2 we were on Luna but got blocked by someone who sent us a message asking if we are naughty or nice--if we are naughty we couldn't be friends, but if we are nice we could potentially block the NK
N3 we didn't protect anyone

Mit's role doesn't exist, let's lynch him.

- Des

I was about to ask you why you didnt claim this after Mit's claim yesterday - but a quick ISO revealed you weren't there.

Let's finish what we started before Mit lynching. Since you started off in the unclaimed - who do you want to claim next?

[ooba]

Nothing Notable.

Who do you want to go next?

[ooba]

@Mit: I was actually waiting to follow proper popcorn procedure.

Claim: Non-existent Narrator

, in other words a Tree Stump
If i bold a certain phrase in thread, I die immediately with my alignment being revealed.

I asked N if i can still continue posting in thread if I stump - he said No, unless he lets me know otherwise.

[ooba]

@ooba: I only asked because in your list of claims that needed to happen you left yourself out. Can you tell us what the phrase is, without bolding it?

Narrator Narrating N's Notably Narcissistic Nonsensical Namesake

[ooba]

O_o

OK, so who's left? Luna and Rail?

Yup.

[ooba]

Only Luna left. My thoughts on the setup as soon as he claims.

[ooba]

Mit is the right play for today.

[ooba]

Agree with Luna's analysis that the setup was designed around the normalizer.
- I again come to the point that 2 Cops + Normalizer seem overpowered
- Even if we accept that, both Shadow and Mit have claimed roles that revert to normal Doc+Nurse combo if normalized
If there normalizer had survived N1, if all of these roles were town, there's a very good chance that we could have had a cop+doc combo on our hands. That's just bad design - I think def. one of {Mit},{BBM} are scum - maybe even both.

Also, most roles seem well defined i.e Mit's "anybody that attracts me" is very vague and doesn't fit with other roles. (Luna's "asleep" too to a certain extent)

Based on these two alone, Mit makes a good vote:

Vote: Mit

Don't insta-lynch anyone yet though - Lemme re-read the game for connections etc.

---

which means either one of the VTs is lying

Just you and Dante claimed VTs

[ooba]

That's L-2 by the way.. Anybody who tries to end the day early is a scum-claim...

[ooba]

Ok - re-read D4:

If Peace is scum, Luna is not scum
- early first D4 vote by Peace
- Luna peace vote after claims (although weak)

1580: Peace ~ Mit

VC post: menm lynch - one scum in {BBmolla , Majiffy}

---

Scum list: {Mit} {Peace\Luna} {BBM*} {..}
* Maj as an outside chance instead of BBM

Will update as I go along.

[ooba]

@ooba: How is it bad design? There would be no way for the normaliser to know who would be a good target. Unless that person came out and said "my role is shitty but only one step away from being good". And even then it wouldn't be enough. Because we wouldn't know if that person was telling the truth or not. I think the normaliser had two shots, just so at least one would have a good chance of having a positive effect for the town.

Maybe I'm biased by the fact that we had both cops claimed on D2. Let me mull over the setup later - I don't think N and I belong to the same school of setup design.

[ooba]

Networker (

daytalk enabler

) - peacebringer
..
italicised peacebringer's bracket claim because i don't remember him actually claiming it

He claimed it, but this jogged my memory to this quote from PV

Networker is not a an Encoder.

[ooba]

Upto page 10:
#4 - I don't like SleepyKrew's claim - Delayed night action is hardly that negative to claim unlike miller etc.
#8 - Do not think Varsoon is scum; but rail doing the exact same thing I did makes him unlikely to be scum buddies with Varsoon is he is scum
#41 - Peace's early "What did SK do on D1" is not scummy - but the capitulation in post 41 is. Voting SK to "know" what the negative utility is sounds like a weak reason scum might give to jump on to a wagon.
Peace ~ Maj
#47 - "you have your opinion, I have mine... but carry on...scum" seems very similar to Peace's potshot again at Race in D4 "you're bad aren't you"
I don't know what it means; just an observation
#55 - Dante is probably not scum with Maj
#56 - BBM's "I don't even think he's scum for the claim in particular, I think he's just scum for his postings." on SK still feels like scum trying to over explain their vote
#114 - I think Viera Assassin's obliviousness here is actually a town tell - Also continues in #184
#158 - "I'm not luna's biggest fan right now." - seems ingenious with Luna just posting one post
MUM ~ Luna
#185,#186 - I don't like BBM's defence of PB - "PB is annoying town who will probably get himself mislynched today". The push on SK still seems too strong - "Can we not get distracted from the SK lynch please"
#198 -

@BBM

: "Revelations have me believing SK's role for the moment." - what revelations were these?
#222 - SK's selective attack of Shadow is suspicious. It could mean links with Shadow or the other people who hadn't posted till then. (Luna, Vifam)

I'll also be V\LA for the next 36 hours. Dont lynch before then.

[ooba]

^Good posting by MiT.

Lemme

unvote

before I leave.

[ooba]

Unvote

[ooba]

I'm back

[ooba]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dante

Scum don't type like Mitilos is typing.
Dante wagon is better for me right now.

well if you are not scum and mitilos is not scum you just gave scum the game...
you REALLY need to watch your vote.

Peace could you explain this?

[ooba]

Maj's 1670 is an attempt to play dumb. I can't believe anybody won't know who the double voter is.

Peace's reads are !!!. Doesn't look like well thought out scum posturing.

Combined with Varsoon's "I'm really interested in the Peace flip right now. It gives town a lot of info, and will help inform me on where to go in the following days." -> I don't like this lynch anymore.

I don't know why but I'm also getting increasingly paranoid about Shadow.

[ooba]

not sure what makes you paranoid about them

Well I was doing PoE.

Earlier I had {Luna/Peace, BBM, Mit,...}

Peace's posting falls in the category of too genuine to be scum, IMO.
Mit's recent posting is making me reconsider him as scum. (Because the 'let me see a flip to state a 3/4 member scum team' seems like weak scum play; at a time when I expect scum to be pushing mislynches with conviction)

If you remove the two of them, I can Luna as one & Maj (or) BBM as the second.

Even if I take Varsoon as the third - it means I'm wrong about one of my town reads. If Mit's town - I'd say Shadow has the highest chances of being scum.

[ooba]

Did a quick ISO... Kid A was useless. Spotted two links in MuM and Varsoon.

437 - MUM

sleepykrew town bbmola town neromollie town

railtracer and dante scum

the rest all null

883 - MUM

town: diabolic railtracer deasvail bbmolla radiantcowbells(cause molla said so)

probtown: mitillos peace

everyone else is null or scum

I can understand the reversal on rail but the scum grouping become a bunch in the next post and there was nothing about Dante.

Varsoon keeps pressing about Dante and how it fits his scum meta and how the only person he's sure about scum is him but votes peace for "I'm really interested in the Peace flip right now. It gives town a lot of info, and will help inform me on where to go in the following days." (also note - 'days' in plural as if he knows he'll survive)

The play gives me the vibe of Varsoon-Dante scum pairing and they're trying to get a mutual bus going now - but not too strongly that either gets lynched - so that they'll look better if the game gets to LyLo. I have a lot of re-read pending but this is good for now...

Unvote. Vote: Varsoon

[ooba]

My vote stays on Dante, but, c'mon, ooba, at least don't lie about me voting people who I did not vote.

Doesn't change the fact that you still said it.

Why aren't you voting me? I see no town motivation to playing dumb. So I must be scum, right?

I have but a single vote.

[ooba]

Dante, without knowing the history, your vote is looking really OMGUS. This type of double hardbus is somyhing I've seen Varsoon do.

Welcome Titus. I believe we should get along just fine!

[ooba]

Searching for replacement for Luna Lovegood

Damnit - I was secretly hoping that Nacho was town and he would make a series of massive town posts that I could sheep.. Too bad

@Dante: What are your reads again? From your ISO, I have
Town: Peace
Scum: Varsoon, ooba, Mit

[ooba]

Welcome back

Varsoon/Dante/Mitillos/ooba is where I sit right now

I refuse to be clubbed in with Varsoon/Dante

Hopefully this will convince you otherwise?

Unvote. Vote: Dante

[ooba]

Consolidating my thoughts:

Shadow, Race, Peace are my town reads

Mit and BBM are not scum together
Luna and Peace are not scum together
Race and Varsoon are not scum together

Maj and Mit have a great chance of being scum together = If both flip scum, reconsider Peace
Dante and Varsoon have a great chance of being scum together

BBM and Luna have a good chance of being scum together = If both flip scum, reconsider Shadow

If Dante flips scum, lynch Varsoon. It would also mean Maj is town. If both Dante and Varsoon are scum, go after BBM next. ("If one of Rail Tracer, BBmolla, and PeaceBringer aren't scum, then I'll buy you a pizza.")
If Dante flips town, lynch either Mit or BBM

[ooba]

Calling teams, setting up mislynch-chains, and calling me scum with another player?

I'm consolidating reads in case I don't survive the night.

Plus my scum MO is surviving and one mislynch to another. Both my claim and play are diametrically opposite that.

That said, I can buy your vote; gives me a town vibe. Given that the major push of my Dante voting was Varsoon-Dante, I'm reconsidering that. Maj's vote is just opportunistic; Plus there's also the playing dumb part (twice now I think).

I'm thinking Maj\Luna\BBM now.

Unvote. Vote: Maj

[ooba]

@Mit: Join me on the Maj wagon.

@Rail: You aren't going to get your Luna lynch. Join me on the Maj wagon - we can switch back later if required.

[ooba]

I'm thinking Maj\Luna\BBM now.

why?

PoE. Shadow,Rail,Peace are town. Dante was scum but only in association with Varsoon - I just don't see Varsoon scum reacting like that and voting me in 1939.
Among those who are left, I had a really strong read on RC but Titus has been underwhelming (and another *reason* - he's not posting here much) - but still a leaning town.
I know Maj/Mit looks strong on paper - but Mit's play hasn't had the conviction of scum trying to push mislynches. So that leaves Maj, you and BBM. I also had a Luna/BBM thing earlier in the game - I can't figure out why now though.

@Rail: You aren't going to get your Luna lynch. Join me on the Maj wagon - we can switch back later if required.

he's not going to lynch me, you're not going to lynch majiffy...
there's only one option left, ooba.

Well, let's see how it goes - I'll be here to hammer and switch anyway.

[ooba]

@ooba: I already said why I think Majiffy is town.

Would you vote Luna then? I want a counterwagon because Dante's wagon feels town.

Unvote. Vote: Luna

[ooba]

What's this killing himself bit about?

I'm a tree stump. Only I can't post after the fact, but yeah - free lynch.

[ooba]

Dante was scum but only in association with Varsoon

Well, this is something new.

No it's not - The Dante voting Varsoon who was voting Dante was what triggered this thought.

Among those who are left, I had a really strong read on RC but Titus has been underwhelming (and another *reason* - he's not posting here much) - but still a leaning town.

Wasn't your strong read on RC based on BBM being scum?

I've been fairly wishy-washy on BBM. RC's play was townie though - some stubborn positions that scum wouldn't have stuck on for that long.

but Mit's play hasn't had the conviction of scum trying to push mislynches.

How is this a towntell? Would you call my play in Days 1-3 as something that "has the conviction to push mislynches"?

I mean today's play - We're at 11 people, we're looking at 3/4 scum. I'd expect scum to be aggressive - push for the final kill.

[ooba]

No it's not - The Dante voting Varsoon who was voting Dante was what triggered this thought.

But why does Varsoon-town make Dante-town unacceptable?

I don't understand this question - did you mean to say why does Varsoon-town make Dante-scum unacceptable?

[ooba]

What's this killing himself bit about?

I'm a tree stump. Only I can't post after the fact, but yeah - free lynch.

Do you retain your original wincon when stumping?

My role PM states that I die immediately with my alignment being revealed.

@Nacho: Dante's play is more anti-town 'I dont give a damn' - why would scum ever give the reply he did to Shadow?

[ooba]

Have a scum flip - need to read again. Lets not be too hasty.

[ooba]

Went through Dante's ISO.
- His entire push on Nani and then the "why Nani?" question to Maj seemed a bit forced. I was happy with this I realized Nani was KMD
- The initial vote and unvote on SK is weird. No reasons for the vote and weak ones for the unvote IMO - but the association read isnt that strong

Varsoon, could you link to the game where you said Dante played similarly as scum?

[ooba]

Titus, who are your top scum reads? BB, is he chatty in the QT at least?

[ooba]

Prod dodge. Will post soon.

[ooba]

I'm back!

[ooba]

So we're looking at 2 more scum - 4 in 17 sounds about right.

The two cops are still alive - I'll hate myself if BBM turns up scum. I guess RC would be vindicated in her replace out too.

Kmd4390,

Nothing Notable

, Vanilla Townie,

Nice

mnemonicdevice,

Nothing Notable

, Vanilla Townie,

Nice

Rail Tracer,

Nothing Notable

, Vanilla Townie,

Nice

dopog,

Non-Negotiable Namecaller

, Compulsive Framer,

Nice

theloveofneroandmollie,

Numbered Normaliser

, 2-Shot Normaliser,

Nice

PeregrineV,

Noodle Negotiator

, Fruit Vendor,

Nice

DeasVail,

Necromancer

, Seer,

Nice

Majiffy,

Non-Necessary Negligent-er

, Conditional Action Delayer,

Nice

Shadowy Poison,

Nanny

, Babysitter,

Nice

Dante,

Nagging Notifier

, Mafia Roleblocker Mailman,

Naughty

Mitillos,

Nearby Newcomer

, Universal Backup Traitor turned Compulsive Framer Traitor,

Naughty

---

ooba, Tree Stump
Varsoon, Hated Double Voter
Mac, Paranoid Cop
BBM, Naive Cop
PB, Daytalk enabler

then- my role is Networker. It is negative ultility. There may be logic in my dying, as anyone who has a QT has full access during the day as long as alive. I die they lose it.

Luna, Triggered Vig

I am a Narcoleptic Nightkiller. Each night, I can target someone for death, and they will die if I'm not asleep. Mnmemonic N1, Kid A N2, Mitillos N3.

[ooba]

It's a pity that Nero mollie died so early, it looks like the entire game was designed around that role.

I was thinking Luna+BBM, but looking at the roles, I think its more probable that it's one possible town vig + one possible town cop + one mafia cop.

Varsoon looks bad with the traitor flip. 4 scum comprised of 1 double voter + 2 normal scum + one traitor seems possible. If Varsoon's scum though, not scum with BBM - because they could have hammered either PB or Luna on page 85 for the win - wouldn't have been hard to coordinate with daytalk. The close timestamps:

BBM - Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:46 am
Varsoon - Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:48 am
Varsoon - Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:49 am
BBM - Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:03 pm

---

	Luna Lovegood	PeaceBringer	Varsoon	Mac	BBmolla
Luna Lovegood	-	-	-	-	-
PeaceBringer		-	-	-	-
Varsoon			-	-	-
Mac				-	-
BBmolla	X*		X	X	-

X - Defenitely not scumbuddies
X* - Leaning not scumbuddies, but unsure

I'll keep updating this.

[ooba]

see the game is not set up around 1 player... that is absurd. There is a player with some chance to impact a couple of players that could allow for some hijinks and give scum so places to hide. One got eliminated the other did not. The playing out of the game was not dependent on that one role.

Of course it is. If Nero had lived to D2, he would have seen BBM and VC claim. And normalized them the next night and the game would have turned out a lot differently.

In fact, I was secretly hoping Nero targetted one of them N1 - which was why I was asking them for their results every day. (Gives them the opportunity to post results without getting killed)

[ooba]

When we started the day with 6 players, I already figured out that the most optimal play was stumping because
- It would make the player count odd
- And Varsoon scum+partner still wouldn't be able to auto hammer for the win. (Since it would be 4 to lynch with 5 alive due to Varsoon)

We still have a decent amount of days. Give me a couple to finish my analysis and then'll I stump - because I wont be able to post later.

[ooba]

Read my post again - I never called Varsoon scum. I said it makes sense to stump even in that scenario.
We have 9 days left - I ask for 36 hours.

If I'm town, you benefit from my analysis.
If I'm scum, you benefit from whatever tells-associations I leave there.

[ooba]

Seriously - I'm having a hard time believing anybody could misread that post as 'I wont stump because Varsoon could be scum'.

[ooba]

Varsoon, I'm reading Calvin and Hobbes Mafia. Dante's posting doesn't give me the same feel in that game and this - there he seems pretty laid back, not wanting to step on toes kind as opposed to the antagonistic style here. What made you think the playstyle was similar across games?

[ooba]

Updating my table
- Mac+Varsoon cannot be scum because they could have hammered Luna
- Luna+Varsoon cannot be scum because they could have hammered Peace

Dante Meta

Dante's scum play in Calvin and Hobbes and how he interacted with scum buddies

Roflcopter
- Got lynched early on.
- Dante was the second on his wagon but then votes got reset - he "was inclined to vote Rofl" but never got around to doing it

Boxxy:
- Another player calls him out for not voicing his thoughts on Boxxy. Responds with a noncommittal response asking for other player's case on Boxxy.
- Boxxy is town in read list

NS
- NS is scum in read list
- Votes NS - second on wagon again.
- Calls TSO town for flimsy reasons even though TSO seems scummier than NS
- Wagon off NS moves to another player - "That moved quickly from NS...strange. I'll hammer...do we want to give him a last word?" - I think this shows relief that his scum buddy wasn't lynched and is indicative of his attitude towards scum buddies whose case he pushes - 'I'll bus you but hope I won't have to lynch you'
- In fact, after this, he always maintains that NS is scum but goes after other targets

Dante's interactions this game:
BBM -
- Expresses confusion on the cop's claiming

Mac\Titus\RC\Vifam -
- Conversation with RC "Makes two of us." on RC not liking dopog lynch
- Expresses confusion on the cop's claiming
- RC asks people to get off MD wagon because he's just a bad player. Dante says "He doesn't care what kind of player MD is"
- Asks RC for a case on BBM
- Votes RC (first on wagon)

Mutley\KidA\Varsoon -
After reading the Varsoon exchanges - I find it hard to believe that Dante would have chosen a double voting scum to bus - esp. since it was out of the blue

Peacebringer -
- Rude statement - "Really? A decade? Wow. Need to write a book or something." directed at PB's experience
- "What's your case on Peace?" to PeregrineV
- Discussion with PB on whom to lynch
- Agrees with me that peace is town
- Votes Peace at the end for self preservation

Luna -
Zero interactions with Luna in the game

Analysis from Dante's interaction:
- Varsoon is town
- Not much interaction with Luna, BBM - probably not partners - more sure of Luna than BBM here
- Focus on {Peace, Mac}

---

	Luna Lovegood	PeaceBringer	Varsoon	Mac	BBmolla
Luna Lovegood	-	-	-	-	-
PeaceBringer		-	-	-	-
Varsoon	X	X	-	-	-
Mac			X	-	-
BBmolla	X*		X	X	-

X - Defenitely not scumbuddies
X* - Leaning not scumbuddies, but unsure

Peace with one of {Luna, BBM, Mac}
(or) Luna - Mac

Let me see if I can narrow this down with Mitilos

[ooba]

Mit ISO

Initial read list:
BBM - Null
Dante - Town
Luna - Null-town
Mac - Null
Peace - Null-scum

#10
Calls RC scummy for the initial guilty on peace. Peace is also scum but top scum mnemonic

#13
The "Every role we've seen so far was made up of two N-words and had two components to its description." seems too weak a logic to bus a scum buddy on. Probably not scum with BBM.

#48
Luna is town
"Peace, Rail, RC and Shadow in a later post, as I'm feeling somewhat tired, at the moment." -> But never makes this post

#76
"partially agree with Shadow's choices for scum. Specifically, Peace and Dante. I'm starting to think Luna may be third. Finally, one of RC/BB, not yet sure which."
-> Not sure he'd claim "Peace and Dante" if both were scum buddies here. Probably not scum with Peace
The voting peace immediately afterwards makes me feel better too

After Dante's lynch - goes strongly after Luna. Mentions peace but doesn't vote him again.

Then votes peace again? What happened to Luna conviction??

---

Based on that I'd say the scum pair is {Luna, Mac}. Let me take a lot of inter player interactions within those alive and I'll tell you the final verdict.

[ooba]

I forgot about the traitor bit. I'll need to reanalyze mit and look at player interactions - but not sure if I'll have time before work to finish it though.

Discussion's also stagnating on my account so I'll stump in another 8 hours come what may - if i manage to get time to post anything else, thats a bonus.

Right now, analysis plus gut says you can ignore Varsoon and BBM for scum. Look at interactions between other three to decide which two seem like scumbuddies. I think the play is {Luna, Mac} but this is one of those games where I'm glad I'm not deciding LyLo.

Good luck.

[ooba]

Didn't have time after work. It's clobbering time!!

Narrator Narrating N's Notably Narcissistic Nonsensical Namesake

[ooba]

?

Messaging N in case he missed my post

[ooba]

He replied - he did see my post and the not-stumping-me is correct. WTF?

[ooba]

He says he cannot tell me why it is so.

[ooba]

Checked my role PM again - it clearly says I die with my alignment being revealed if I bold those words in the thread....

[ooba]

The following deaths happened during night 1:

theloveofneroandmollie,

Numbered Normaliser

, 2-Shot Normaliser,

Nice

You are a

Numbered Normaliser

(in other words: a

2-Shot Normaliser

)

.
This means that, twice during the game, you can target one player at night. Starting the next day, that player's role will be changed to the nearest Normal equivalent. If there is a change, they will be informed.

And I wasn't normalized on N1 because I was never sent a PM.

And even if I was normalized - all I figure that'll do is allow me to post after stumping i.e. make me a useful tree stump.

I'll check with N again if forgot to send me some PM - but this doesn't make sense!!!!

[ooba]

Paraphrasing - 'All night actions are accounted for' meaning I wasn't supposed to receive a PM N1 or any night.

Where is everybody??

[ooba]

dopog has been lynched.
He was a

Non-Negotiable Namecaller

, Compulsive Framer,

Nice

You are a

Non-Negotiable Namecaller

(in other words: a

Compulsive Framer

)

.
This means that you must target one player each night to frame. If that player is investigated by a Sane Cop, their result will be reversed. Failure to submit a target will mean you die during the night.

Does not affect my role.

The following deaths happened during night 1:

theloveofneroandmollie,

Numbered Normaliser

, 2-Shot Normaliser,

Nice

You are a

Numbered Normaliser

(in other words: a

2-Shot Normaliser

)

.
This means that, twice during the game, you can target one player at night. Starting the next day, that player's role will be changed to the nearest Normal equivalent. If there is a change, they will be informed.

I did not receive any PM - so did not affect me.

mnemonicdevice has been lynched.
They were

Nothing Notable

, Vanilla Townie,

Nice

.

You are

Nothing Notable

(in other words: a

Vanilla Townie

)

.
This means that you have no special powers.

It is now night 2. Please have actions in by (expired on 2013-10-07 23:13:41).

Does not affect my role.

The following deaths happened during night 2:

PeregrineV,

Noodle Negotiator

, Fruit Vendor,

Nice

You are a

Noodle Negotiator

(in other words: a

Fruit Vendor

)

.
This means that you can target someone each night. They will receive a PM at the start of the next day telling them someone gave them noodles.

I did not receive noodles during the game.

Kmd4390 has been lynched.
He was

Nothing Notable

, Vanilla Townie,

Nice

.

You are

Nothing Notable

(in other words: a

Vanilla Townie

)

.
This means that you have no special powers.

It is now night 3. Please have actions in by (expired on 2013-10-23 23:46:46).

Does not affect my role.

The following deaths happened during night 3:

DeasVail,

Necromancer

, Seer,

Nice

You are a

Necromancer

(in other words: a

Seer

)

.
This means that you can investigate one player at night to try and learn whether they are a werewolf or not.

It is now night 4. Please have actions in by (expired on 2013-11-08 21:56:51).

I had a theory that maybe DV targetting somebody changed something but N clearly says "I will not lie to you at any stage." - so didn't affect my role.

The following deaths happened during night 4:

Rail Tracer,

Nothing Notable

, Vanilla Townie,

Nice

You are

Nothing Notable

(in other words: a

Vanilla Townie

)

.
This means that you have no special powers.

Does not affect my role.

Mitillos has been lynched.
He was a

Nearby Newcomer

, Universal Backup Traitor turned Compulsive Framer Traitor,

Naughty

You are a

Nearby Newcomer

(in other words: a

Universal Backup Traitor

)

.
This means that you will take on the role of the first person to be lynched (regardless of their alignment).
You will join the rest of the mafia if you are shot by them. They know a Traitor exists, but not who you are. If they are all dead before you are recruited, you will surrender.

As dopog was the first to die, you now take his role. Please note your alignment has not changed and you can still be recruited by the mafia.

You are a

Non-Negotiable Namecaller

(in other words: a

Compulsive Framer

)

.
This means that you must target one player each night to frame. If that player is investigated by a Sane Cop, their result will be reversed. Failure to submit a target will mean you die during the night.

It is now night 5. Please have actions in by (expired on 2013-11-13 08:19:29).

Umm so traitor who became framer. Framer does not affect me.

The following deaths happened during night 5:

Majiffy,

Non-Necessary Negligent-er

, Conditional Action Delayer,

Nice

You are a

Non-Necessary Negligent-er

(in other words: a

Conditional Action Delayer

)

.
This means that any actions that target you (except for kills) will happen the night after instead.

Shadowy Poison,

Nanny

, Babysitter,

Nice

You are a

Nanny

(in other words: a

Babysitter

)

.
This means that you can protect one player at night. You will stop any kills targeting them from working. However, if you yourself are targeted for a kill, both of you will die.

Both roles do not affect me.

Dante has been lynched.
He was a

Nagging Notifier

, Mafia Roleblocker Mailman,

Naughty

.

You are a

Nagging Notifier

(in other words: a

Roleblocker Mailman

)

.
This means that can you roleblock and anonymously message someone at night. They will receive a PM at the start of the next day containing your message, in the form "Someone nagged you all night. All you can remember is

(message)[/quote ]".
If you are blocking, you must send a message. It must be at contain at least fives Ns and be no longer than twenty five words long.

I really thought Dante would be the key to what happened - but he does not block PMs - not roleblock.

Really confused.... I'll ask this publicly since it's game info:

@N: Are role flips on death you posted complete? i.e. is there any role based info that's not there in them?

[ooba]

The last part should read "I really thought Dante would be the key to what happened - but he does not block PMs -

just

roleblock. "

[ooba]

How the hell am I scum??

Which scenario seems most likely:
- I'm town who's a tree stump and it didn't work
- I'm scum who's a tree stump and it didn't work and am trying to clear it up even though I'm getting lynched
- I'm scum who's not a tree stump and decided to claim tree stump because I have a death wish

At least wait for N to reply to that bolded question!!

[ooba]

And what do you think N will answer? "oh yeah the nagging notifier also has the power to VANILLAIZE too". I sort of doubt that's the case, considering Peregrine getting blocked N1 and then sending me noodles N2.

I'm not banking on N saying that. I'm thinking perhaps Mit had another power to his role (like Vanillizer - that makes sense). I don't expect details from N - just whether the role flips leave something out - The game specific rules never mention flips or whether they constitute the entire role abilities. "Will not lie to you" does not mean "Will tell you the complete truth".

[ooba]

Think of the situation where RB was lynched D1. You don't leave it to just one scum counter when the possibility of two cops exist. I'm not theorizing full vanilizer - maybe a 1-shot..

I get lycnhed, I flip town - what theory do you have on why my ability didnt work then?

[ooba]

Dead man voting!!!

Unvote. Vote: Luna

[ooba]

[ooba]

Hehe

I BELIEVE

Vote: Ooba

Spoiler: And..

I'm sorry too - I love you guys! No hard feelings?

[ooba]

The Mafia were:

Nacho

(Nurturer),

Mitilos

(Nearby Newcomer),

Dante

(Nagging Notifier),

ooba

(Ne'er-do-well)

Spoiler: Mafia Roles

You are a

Nurturer

(in other words: a

Seraph Knight

)

.
This means that once during the game, you can choose one player. You will protect this player from any deaths at night until you die.

You are a

Nearby Newcomer

(in other words: a

Universal Backup Traitor

)

.
This means that you will take on the role of the first person to be lynched (regardless of their alignment).
You will join the rest of the mafia if you are shot by them. They know a Traitor exists, but not who you are. If they are all dead before you are recruited, you will surrender.

You are a

Nagging Notifier

(in other words: a

Roleblocker Mailman

)

.
This means that can you roleblock and anonymously message someone at night. They will receive a PM at the start of the next day containing your message, in the form "Someone nagged you all night. All you can remember is

(message)[/quote ]".
If you are blocking, you must send a message. It must be at contain at least fives Ns and be no longer than twenty five words long.

You are a

Ne'er-do-well

(in other words: a

Godfather

)

.
This means that if you are targeted by a Sane Cop, you will return an innocent result.

Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/tQdZ7StfuaRi9

Dead QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/KPeSrbtDfq8kb

[ooba]

I'm not a fan of the way that voting shuffle was handled. Yes your rules say it but it was rather silly IMO

I take it by this comment that Luna was in fact the last remaining BG.

I actually read that as Cabd saying scum should have won the day earlier when I hammered Luna? Not sure.

I'll discuss the voting rule and the gambit first.

I actually noticed the voting rule first when I was collating role PMs for this post (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5474916) and saw N's previous post (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5371410). We had a feeling a situation might arise where Varsoon might put Luna at L-1 and had a contingency plan that used this.

I think the gambit helped but keep in mind that all players in LyLo knew about a fakehammer gambit and even discussed them - so we weren't dealing with a bunch of VIs.

I think what gave us the game was Luna's posting after my supposed hammer and the last day's play. It was so genuinely town-like and that is *really* to pull off. Compare this to my posts in the Mafia QT where I'm afraid to post after the hammer - because I know it's tough faking a victory when you know it's a gambit. I kept the excitement in the dead QT alive by appearing to be pissed at the voting rule - and even there, people considered a gambit but mostly (except Des and RT who were sceptical) - thought Luna was town from his posting.

So overall: I think N should probably remove it from his ruleset. However, I think what brought home this game for the mafia was Luna's great play at the end - credit where credit is due, I guess.

[ooba]

My thoughts on the game:

I think town were a bit apathetic during the initial days and let deadline compromise lynches happen more than once. I'm not sure whether the majority really felt {dopog, mnemonicdevice, Kmd4390} were scum - those lynches just happened. Compare that to D4 where town really got in it's groove - the 4 wagons on that day were on Peace, Luna, Mitilos and Dante - with Dante eventually getting lynched.

If this had happened even a day earlier, we would have been in a lot of trouble - esp. since DV would have still been alive. The massclaim was really the point where town got a bit more active and focused - Race wanted to do a massclaim D3 - luckily that never happened.

Setup:

I'm still thinking about the setup - I would like to see N's notes on what happens when each role is normalized.
- I really wish N had split Nero's role into two 1-shot slots - just to see a normalizer make it to N2
- Lots of red herrings in the game. I liked that.
-- For scum, the presence of a Nurturer made us think *there* was a vig in the game. And that's why we shot PV. This miscalculation nearly cost us the game, since PV was going to be mislynched and it just removed one person from that pool.
-- For town, the two cops. If I was town in this game, I would have definitely lynched one of the two cops on D2 - probably BBM.
- The lack of fake claims was painful. While we made our own, we dodged a lot of bullets - we had "Necronamcer" as a fakeclaim once - luckily DV claimed before we had to. The tree-stump claim was a bad mistake - I never thought we would have even players - Nothing notable would have been better.

@Mit:

Why didn't you just claim Nearby Newcomer: Universal Backup? It doesn't appear that scummy at face value.

[ooba]

Nah - I didn't think it was unbalanced (esp. since as scum I knew we had both the roleblocker and GF to counteract them).

However, as town, I might have fallen in that trap and gone after the cops. I liked the red herring in the setup actually - looks like a scum role but is not.