Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Mgm]

But there's a difference bewteen being lynch-happy and letting a deadline run out because you don't want to lynch.


Just answer these few questions for now, Fritz: Did you prefer No-Lynch over lynching Thesp? If so, why? If not, why did you not hammer near deadline?

yes, cuz he's not scum and you guys are retarded

Adele wasn't scum either. You could've tried for an Ether lynch if a Thesp lynch didn't strike your fancy.

[Mgm]

My Ether vote useless? That's positively laughable and a pretty downright scummy thing for you to say, Patrick. Considering that Ether was the 2nd leading vote-getter at the time, you'd have to be implying that in general, everyone should abandon the #2 to pile on the #1 wagon at the end of a day or else their vote's useless and scummy.

I'm not implying that in general everyone should abandon a number 2 wagon near the end of the day. I said that Ether was not going to be lynched if it was within her power to hammer Thesp. Pretty simple really. I would say the chances of an Ether lynch at that stage were negligable.

With the amount of lurking Ether has been doing, I'd say a lynch on him would certainly have been possible. Either way, a vote on #2 was better than one on a cop or investigatee.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I like how you still suck at reading me, Glrok.

[Zindaras]

Post 224, Zindie's summary post. SV scum, Ether Scummy but then less scummy later on, blahblah... but Zindaras doesn't substantiate these suspicions or votes of support very well. He even calls CES and MGM town based on being Dutch, which shows a

distinct

lack of interest. MGM had picked up several votes, and CES had a short mini-wagon and some mild suspicions. Zindaras, can you go back and pick out some of the reasons you had these early-ish impressions? I find your contributions disturbingly lacking

I felt Mgm and Cessy were town mainly based on interactions I had with them. Cessy was being typical-Cessy. He never actually pressured me into voting AndrewS, which I would've expected if he were scum. Mgm, well, I felt that his calling out of Cessy for being talkative and his questioning of my reaction to AndrewS were both town-tells. I made that list of things while rereading the thread. So somewhere between Post 83 and Post 109, Mgm posted a post which made me go "Town!"

As for Ether, Post 170 was the one that made me think she was less scummy. She seemed hesitant to go and vote AndrewS. The earlier reasons why I felt she was scummy was Post 65. Really quick to vote AndrewS, add a joke to make it look better.

Post 225, Patrick points out that Zindie's "Patrick needs to post more" stance is both hypocritical and flat-out

incorrect.

That's bull. A statement like that can never be incorrect. I feel that Patrick should post more, so I post that. That you disagree with it doesn't make it incorrect.

Post 278 by Zindie doesn't make me any happier. We know that you think SV is scum. You've said it multiple times. Yet, to my knowledge, you NEVER stated

WHY

you thought SV was scum. Go back and look at her early posts and explain to me WHY you thought she was scum back then.

I thought Post 111 was a scumtell. Non-contribution, flip-flop on AndrewS. That's what I had on her. I know it isn't a lot, but I didn't feel the AndrewS-lynch at all.

360, Zindie laments not killing SV for dumb/spammy reasons (this is beginning to annoy me, Zinds)

I joke, I prank, I jest. That's who I am.

asks if there can be SKs. Combine with his recent "wait, there's a GF?" post, and he is either not paying any attention to the setup, or he is doing a very good job of pretending not to pay attention.

A null-tell it is.

Zinde onto IH in 396. Apparently he doesn't notice that IH is slated to be vigged. Not a helpful post at all. He's lazy and not paying attention.

I most definitely did know that IH was slated to be vigged. But I do not see the relevance of that, just as I didn't see the relevance of that back then. If I feel that IH is the correct lynch, or at least the better lynch than AndrewS, I will vote him regardless of who voidybuns wants to kill. Voidybuns can easily change her target if IH is lynched, it's not like she was a delayed vig or something.

I like how you still suck at reading me, Glrok.

*laughs*

I wanted to post that!

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Thesp: 2 (CES ChannelDelibird)
Zindaras: 2 (Patrick Glork)
ChannelDelibird: 1 (Thesp)
Patrick: 1 (Mgm)

Not voting: Ether Fritzler MrBuddyLee Nightfall Zindaras

We only need 5 for a lynch!

[Mgm]

When a deadline is due, the best idea is to push for a lynch. We knew the scum would likely kill Adele, and that
would not provide any useful information. Hammering Thesp would IMO be sensible, but for the people who doubted he was guilty,
Ether would've been a reasonable alternative. The following players didn't vote either and, as a result, had a loose vote lying around by the end of yesterday
(All of whom I've FOSsed for this). None of them tried to start a wagon on Ether to counter the Thesp wagon, which would be the logical thing to do if you wanted to save Thesp.

*Ether (voted Nightfall)
*Fritzler (voted Adele)
*Patrick (voted Mgm)

Let's look at them in order:

Hmm. I'll probably hammer Thesp before I go to sleep.

Ether

acknowledged the deadline and said he'd lynch Thesp before the deadline hit, but never returned after that. He clearly had time to post,
but chose not to put in a vote.

Fritzler

is known for hammering people to death, yet chose not to do it this time around. He voted Adele on March 9 and didn't post again until after the deadline.
When asked why he didn't hammer Thesp to secure a lynch, he says "yes, cuz he's not scum and you guys are retarded". That tallies with a post he made on March 1 which said:
"guys thesp is such a bad lynch right now". I don't like how he didn't post for over a week, but at least what he says today lines up with his behavior back then.

I don't feel like lynching Thesp.

Also, to clear up any confusion, no majority at deadline means no lynch.

Still not wild about a Thesp lynch, and pondering how disasterous no lynching would be with an even number. It would make a roleblocker less useful I suppose.
Ether and Zindaras definitely need looking at more tomorrow.

Patrick

says he doesn't want to lynch Thesp and he clearly knows that a lack of votes will lead to a no lynch. So I find it odd that he says Ether needs to get looked at
"tomorrow". Why didn't he put his vote where his mouth was and try to get Ether lynched then?


Ether's post comes across as a stalling tactic. Saying you want to lynch Thesp and subsequently failing to do so is scummy.
I'll start looking at his other posts to see if I can find other scummy things about Ether. Help would be appreciated, especially from the people who voted Ether yesterday.

Unvote: Patrick; FOS: Patrick
Vote: Ether

[Patrick]

Patrick says he doesn't want to lynch Thesp and he clearly knows that a lack of votes will lead to a no lynch. So I find it odd that he says Ether needs to get looked at
"tomorrow". Why didn't he put his vote where his mouth was and try to get Ether lynched then?

I think I've already explained that I did not believe Ether could be lynched. Contrary to what you seem to say before, Ether was online, and had been for a while. Lurking is not an indicator that she isn't around, it means that she's lurking.

Your argument for why no lynching was bad doesn't make sense. If we had an odd number I would totally agree, and wouldn't have risked a no lynch. However with an even number, the only way that no lynch can lose numerically is if we have a roleblocker who pulls off a successful block (obviously there is no doctor). Your argument that we've lost useful information also doesn't make sense, if we want, we could lynch Thesp today and still get that information, probably more than before. No lynching yesterday hasn't deprived us of that possiblity. Yesterday, 3 mislynches would have lead us to a loss. Today... 3 mislynches still leads us to a loss. You haven't demonstrated at all why a no lynch was bad.

[Patrick]

Zindaras is still probably scum btw. I don't find this explanation very convicncing:

I thought Post 111 was a scumtell. Non-contribution, flip-flop on AndrewS. That's what I had on her. I know it isn't a lot, but I didn't feel the AndrewS-lynch at all.

If he didn't have much on her, I don't understand the near fanatisism for her lynch. Not feeling the AndrewS wagon was hardly a good reason to lynch spectrumvoid. It's not as if Zindaras hadn't noted other scummy things, and post 111 didn't look so terrible anyway.

[Zindaras]

I like Fritz. Now and then, I go and play like Fritz to see how people react to it.

[Mgm]

Patrick says he doesn't want to lynch Thesp and he clearly knows that a lack of votes will lead to a no lynch. So I find it odd that he says Ether needs to get looked at
"tomorrow". Why didn't he put his vote where his mouth was and try to get Ether lynched then?

I think I've already explained that I did not believe Ether could be lynched. Contrary to what you seem to say before, Ether was online, and had been for a while. Lurking is not an indicator that she isn't around, it means that she's lurking.

Based on your answer, I'm assuming you didn't oppose lynching Ether (if you did, you'd have said so). It was clear that I couldn't be lynched either, so at least you could've tried. Bandwagons can form pretty quickly and a few switches is all it took to get Ether over the edge. Why not simply try?

Your argument for why no lynching was bad doesn't make sense. If we had an odd number I would totally agree, and wouldn't have risked a no lynch. However with an even number, the only way that no lynch can lose numerically is if we have a roleblocker who pulls off a successful block (obviously there is no doctor).

We still have 11 players. We're not about to lose for another few nights. Roleblockers and odd/even is totally irrelevant.

Your argument that we've lost useful information also doesn't make sense, if we want, we could lynch Thesp today and still get that information, probably more than before. No lynching yesterday hasn't deprived us of that possiblity. Yesterday, 3 mislynches would have lead us to a loss. Today... 3 mislynches still leads us to a loss. You haven't demonstrated at all why a no lynch was bad.

We lost a cop and wasted a chance to catch scum. That's bad enough, but if we lynched Thesp yesterday, the final power role (blocker?) could've used that info last night to block a scum from killing. Basically, I see no reason why no lynch yesterday could've been a good thing. Also, why suggesting we can still lynch Thesp today? I thought you didn't want him dead.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Patrick, firstly, there's the roleblocker thing. Secondly, you can also treat it as a buffer, an alternative when faced with a deadline and little time to get a lynch. Unless one really thought Thesp was a bad lynch, hammering is the right thing to do.

[Glork]

Cessy was being typical-Cessy. He never actually pressured me into voting AndrewS, which I would've expected if he were scum.

This is factually wrong:

CES makes it -2 and tells Zindie to join him. This is something I *do* find a bit alarming.

Please don't lie to me, Zindie. I just read every post in the first 17.5 pages of the game. I know

exactly

what "Cessy" did or did not do.

That's bull. A statement like that can never be incorrect. I feel that Patrick should post more, so I post that. That you disagree with it doesn't make it incorrect.

Sorry, poor word choice. Substitute "either falsified or completely idiotic" for "incorrect." Patrick, as he pointed out and as I noticed when I read, had posted and contributed more than most players in the game at that point. This "opinion" appears to be something that you made up completely.

I thought Post 111 was a scumtell. Non-contribution, flip-flop on AndrewS. That's what I had on her. I know it isn't a lot, but I didn't feel the AndrewS-lynch at all.

I know Patrick already addressed this, but that is certainly not enough to go pushing a wagon that was founded on nothing and fueled by a

random, die-roll

vote.

I like how you still suck at reading me, Glrok.

*laughs*

I wanted to post that!

First of all, I would tend to disagree with both of you on one level or another. But that debate is not for this game or for this point in time. Second, I would like to point out that if you both wouldn't insit on behaving patentedly scummily, you wouldn't find yourselves in positions where players think that you are scummy.


Oh, and about your reply to Patrick:

I like Fritz. Now and then, I go and play like Fritz to see how people react to it.

A cop-out post if ever I saw one.


That said, I'm going to do something very slightly unorthodox. As much as I don't like Zindie, I'm going to

Unvote, Vote: Ether

. I know she likes to lurk in her games, but I think she should be pressured into talking a lot more right now.

Strong FoS: Zindaras

. If you're pro-town, seriously get your act together. Read over my re-reads and do some hardcore scumhunting. Angry Slave-Driver Glork is throwing down the gauntlet, because he is

not

happy about the way this game has gone so far.

Part III of my analysis (the next ~9) pages will come either sometime this afternoon or this evening.

[Patrick]

Based on your answer, I'm assuming you didn't oppose lynching Ether (if you did, you'd have said so). It was clear that I couldn't be lynched either, so at least you could've tried. Bandwagons can form pretty quickly and a few switches is all it took to get Ether over the edge. Why not simply try?

It may have been better to vote Ether. Nevertheless she wouldn't have been lynched.

We still have 11 players. We're not about to lose for another few nights. Roleblockers and odd/even is totally irrelevant.

This is complete and utter crap. Please don't insult me with stuff like this.

We lost a cop and wasted a chance to catch scum. That's bad enough, but if we lynched Thesp yesterday, the final power role (blocker?) could've used that info last night to block a scum from killing. Basically, I see no reason why no lynch yesterday could've been a good thing. Also, why suggesting we can still lynch Thesp today? I thought you didn't want him dead.

You've described this in a way designed to make it look worse. We were losing our cop regardless. I'm simply showing how we haven't lost information, I'm not necessarily advocating a Thesp lynch.

[Zindaras]

This is factually wrong:

CES makes it -2 and tells Zindie to join him. This is something I *do* find a bit alarming.

Please don't lie to me, Zindie. I just read every post in the first 17.5 pages of the game. I know

exactly

what "Cessy" did or did not do.

That's not pressure. He says "Zindie, with me!"

If I say "Glork, vote yourself", will you feel pressured? No, you won't. It starts becoming pressure when you threaten to vote or vig someone.

I know Patrick already addressed this, but that is certainly not enough to go pushing a wagon that was founded on nothing and fueled by a

random, die-roll

vote.

At that point, I felt that it was the best case. Better than cases against anyone else. Therefore, I voted her.

A cop-out post if ever I saw one.

Cop-out?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Glrok, vote yourself.

[Glork]

CES, nightkill yourself.

[Patrick]

I made my last post in a rush.

Patrick, firstly, there's the roleblocker thing. Secondly, you can also treat it as a buffer, an alternative when faced with a deadline and little time to get a lynch. Unless one really thought Thesp was a bad lynch, hammering is the right thing to do.

These are the main points against that I can see. The roleblocker thing is true, but I feel is pretty minor. As for the buffer, I think yesterday wasn't an unreasonable time to use it. There are a few downsides to no lynching but I think they're being overblown by Mgm. I think I'd probably be all over him now if it weren't for the innocent investigation on him. I haven't counted him out for being a GF by any means.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I think Yesterday was definitely an unreasonable time to use it. I don't see Thesp avoid getting lynched much longer.

I do agree that Mgm is overstating the downsides, though. And let's not worry about GFs when we have yet to even lynch a Goon. For all we know, Mgm might well be nightkilled the next Night.

[Mgm]

True, we would've lost Adele regardless, but if we had settled on a lynch yesterday, we would've known a lot more today. Right now, we're still as clueless as we were before day dawned.

If I'm overstating the downsides of no lynch, then there's also people overstating the upsides of no lynch. As far as I'm concerned there aren't any and I challenge anyone to name one.

Your argument for why no lynching was bad doesn't make sense. If we had an odd number I would totally agree, and wouldn't have risked a no lynch. However with an even number, the only way that no lynch can lose numerically is if we have a roleblocker who pulls off a successful block (obviously there is no doctor).

Go ahead and explain what you meant because I can't the point of this bit. No lynch isn't going to lose us the game - roleblocker or not.

[Patrick]

Ok, imagine that each night we lose one player (this assumes no roleblocker). That means that yesterday with 12 alive, 3 mislynches would lose the game. Today with 11 alive, it's still 3 mislynches loses the game. No change. If we no lynched today, tomorrow we'd have 10 alive, and it would only take 2 mislynches to lose the game. So with an odd number, no lynch is bad (it gives us one less mislynch). But with an even number that doesn't apply.

[Mgm]

But no-lynch means the scum decide who dies and they usually don't commit suicide.

[Patrick]

Scum decide who dies at night whatever we do during the day.

[MrBuddyLee]

Patrick, you seem to be missing the point entirely and perhaps intentionally because it's so damning.

We find scum by watching your votes and vote movement.

You had a vote on MgM and an FOS on Zindaras. Adele claimed cop with an innocent on MgM with very little time left. WHERE/WHETHER you moved your vote off MgM to near deadline would give us a ton of information on you and the person you moved to. You posted, indicating awareness of the situation, and that you had a decision to make:

Still not wild about a Thesp lynch, and pondering how disasterous no lynching would be with an even number. It would make a roleblocker less useful I suppose. Ether and Zindaras definitely need looking at more tomorrow. Both lurking more than usual. Zindaras feels like he's always changing his mind and then providing poor reasons for it, or just saying it's gut feeling. I don't particularly feel like he has the thought process, then changes his suspicions, more the other way round; he changes his suspicions then tags something on to justify it. It doesn't feel natural. If it wasn't obvious, I didn't like his attack on me at all, and noticed he's still not provided any examples of what he's accused me of.

I'll be around again before the deadline.

Ether had several votes on her, and despite you indicating suspicion of her, you chose NOT to move your vote off MgM and onto Ether. Or onto your most recent FOS, Zindaras. You left it on MgM, which, absent any indication you think he's the godfather, is a sign of nervous paralysis on your part.

In your 87th post, you waffled about the pros and cons of lynching the claimed cop and curiously didn't take a stand on that issue, leaving the door open. You stated plainly you didn't want to lynch Thesp, and said you'd vote for Zindaras but no one would follow you so you didn't vote him. It looks like a post looking for traction on any of several things:

1) Looking for support in finishing off the claimed cop
2) Pre-emptively looking for an alternative to Thesp, who was the alternative to Adele
3) Looking for people to vote Zindaras so you wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb there (or alternatively, weak distancing from Zindaras)

You should tell us very plainly:

why didn't you move your vote to anyone yesterday before sunset?

[Glork]

Part III... I'm going to drop my posting limitation during my analysis; I think it's too hard to maintain in an analysis such as what I am doing.


"Bah" from Zindaras, Glork on MGM, Patrick on Glork. Nightfall affirms his positition, stating want to lynch if Glork hadn't, MGM FoSing Ether. Fritz on MGM.

453: Patrick cites Glork as unhelpful, bad/no reasoning, wishy-washy (especially with regards to Andrew), started SV-wagon on die-roll, hasn't behaved like "expected' pro-town Glork.

CDB follows up with an "I agree, but I'm not quite sure what's up" post.

Glork's 455: Explains votes, comments on oddness of the SV-wagon. Cites MGM/Ether as top suspects, along with Thesp, Adele, and CDB.

CES FoSes Glork/Thesp in 456.

MGM defends against Glork, Glork explains "fishing" accusation, asks CES about FoSes. CES declines to answer, Glork asks why no vote, CES votes Glork.

Patrick steps out and offers a defense of Thesp against Glork's FoS in 462, but agrees regarding MGM.

MGM continues to defend against Glork, votes Glork for "twisting" posts.

MBL's 466 is a list of one-liner thoughts on each player. Cites Ether, Adele, Thesp as top suspects. Votes Thesp, FoSes the other two.

474: Nightfall asks Glork about his posting style, promises PBPAs on Ether and MGM. >>One interesting thing to note is that Nightfall decided to do a PBPA on Andrew -- somebody somewhat suspected by numerous townspeople -- and now he's promising to do Ether and MGM -- two more people who have been called suspicious early in D2. This could be indicative of something significant.

Glork replies, asks MBL for clarification on how he compiled his suspicion list. (475-476)

Adele, 477, agrees with Glork's assessement of Ether, points out how she defended him but made comments indicating that she was willing to turn on him at any moment. She also says Glork "owes...an apology" to MGM for his attack on MGM.

MBL replies to Glork's question, calls it "borderline distractive" -- Glork coutners by saying he was looking for a possible inconsistency in MBL's suspicions. Glork also says that he doesn't owe an apology because he thinks he's found something scummy. He argues that pro-town MGM would more likely step up to defend SV -- NOT just ask for a claim.

Post 486, Thesp replies to Glork and MBL, and says he still doesn't like CDB.

Thesp, you still have not, to this point, explained why. If I do not find concrete reasons for this suspicion by the time I finish this part of my analysis, I will be hounding you for a retroactive explanation. Do I make myself clear?

492, Fritz prefers going after Adele rather than Thesp, votes Adele.

MBL points out to Adele that she is not contributing, wants her to flesh out suspicions better in the near future.

Post 509, Thesp still doesn't like CDB. He add Zindaras to the mix, along iwth Nightfall/MBL as a potential third. He also says he thinks scum are "fueling the fire, rather than getting in the way" -- an indication that scums aren't

leading

the suspicions charge, but are more than happy to support existing ones. Reminiscent of my last comment towards Nightfall. This makes me feel better about Thesp and a bit more suspicious of Nightfall.
I respectfully disagree with 513, though. I seem to have found a little bit on many players, whereas Thesp isn't finding much on anyone.

Thesp, Patrick, and CDB all expressed "sorry for lurking/slacking, I'll contribute" sentiments. Guarantee at least one is probably scum.

I like 522 by MBL.

527, MGM expresses support for CDB-pressure. Conveniently timed, though I suppose he

may

have just not been paying attention earlier, like usual.

535: CDB's post, "as promised." Comments on a handful of players, finds Thesp, Ether, Glork scummiest. Thinks Patrick, Zindaras are town. Can't read Fritz, CES.
I think I could dig CDB-Zindaras-Ether right now. Maybe Nightfall instead of Ether. Donno yet.

537, Glork notes that there is a ton of cross-suspicion bewteen himself and his five suspects. I hadn't thought of this earlier, but that might indicate that scums are sitting back and letting us rip each other apart. Definitely 1-2 scums in this group of six. More likely 1, rather than 2, though, I think. Glork also notes that Patrick, Zindaras, and Nightfall are being lazy/lurky... (Interesting that CDB called two of these three pro-town, eh?)

A few posts later, 539, Patrick posts thoughts on everyone. Adele scummy, CDB meh, unsure of CES, no significant problems w/Ether (though wants a post), unsure of Fritz, Glork reasonably scummy (though he unvotes Glork), MGM "more likely than average" to be scum, MBL++, Nightfall not scummy, Thesp "interesting," Zindaras also "interesting." Adds vote to Adele.

MBL reads CDB as "lazy town." He expands in 548, and asks CES why he is so focused on Glork's opinion of him. Also wants Ether to come back and post, as she is on several short-lists.

Glork explains why CES isn't likely pro-town in 550, lumping him with CDB, and is satisfied with MBL.

Hmm. Everybody, please read my 550, along with posts 552 through 556. tell me what you think of the exchange between CES and myself. I ask why CES was voting for me, he said the misrepresentation that I had just allegedly made. I ask why he was voting for me

earlier

and he says "bandwagoning, I think." This, coming from CES, who

only

bandwagoned D1? That raises an eyebrow for me.
I'd like to know people's thoughts on this.
Post 561 and 562 are also *very* relevant to this exchange. To my knowledge, CES never replied to my question in 562.

563, Zindaras agrees with Glork/MBL, finds Thesp/Adele suspicious. Delicious fuel-the-fire goodness? Who knows...

Ah, Thesp finally elaborates a bit on CDB in 580. Still, much of his suspicions pertain to his D2 behavior. I'm still a bit curious to know what had him so confident during D1.

Still, 583 from CDB sucks, IMHO. "My play was bad, but Andrew's was worse." "What, do you want me to get overdefensive?" "How do you expect a townie to play on D2?" Feels more OMGUS than reasonable. Also, the third part of that post felt like "Well yeah, I played it like I'm scum backtracking, but I don't know how to do it as a townie!"

Zindaras makes a PBPA of Thesp in 584, keeps pushing the "lynch Thesp" theme.

Patrick to MBM in 585, MBL doesn't like Pat's attitude. MBL also notices a

very

intersting apparent flip-flop between "I think the case was overstated" to "I buy the case," as indicated in 588.

589 is a lengthy response by Patrick, noting differences in the D1 case and the D2 case against MGM. He posits Adele/MGM, plus possibly Thesp. Considering Adele wasn't scum, MGM is likely not scum, and I'm now thinking that Thesp is very probably legit, I start to wonder about Patrick, too.

MGM confirm-votes Glork in 593, thinks Glork is severely overstating his case against MGM.

595, Nightfall does a PBP on Adele throuhg Glork. Likes Adele, not terribly happy with CDB, doesn't seem too happy about CES, certainly doesn't like Ether, annoyed that he's being called out and Fritz is being ignored, doesn't really express an opinion of Glork. He re-iterates his question about why Fritz isn't being pressured from earlier.
>>In response to that question, I'm just going to voice support for Fritz. I think I've got a good

enough

read on him that I can pretty confidently say that if I thought he were scum, I'd be all over him by now. I *would* like to see him contribute a little more, but I do not think we should be going after him for the time being. (That said, I've had only vague passing suspicions of you anyway, so I'm probably not the one who *should* be answering that question.)

599, Patrick replies to Adele (who suspects Glork a bit, does not suspect MGM) by inquiring about a possible double-standard. We would later learn that this double-standard would be because of her investigation result on MGM. Oops.

(Yay, Page 25!)

602: MGM FoSes Fritz based on Nightson's PBPA.

CES's 606: I want to bandwagon! Goes to Thesp.

Fritz, Glork, Adele, and MGM have a big FoS-party. Lots of OMGUS.
MBL to Ether in 629.
634, Glork prefer Adele or MGM lynch to a Thesplynch. Wants to hear from Ether soon.

637 by Thesp makes me happy. I now wish that, instead of being suspicious of his "unfounded" attack on CDB, I had paid more attention to CDB. I could swing around to a CDB-lynch if need be.

Interestingly enough, Zindie commits one of my favorite scumtells in 641, protecting CDB. Thesp accuses CDB of being lurkerscum. Zindie replies by wanting to look at other lurkers, too. Another scary post which is

very

reminiscent of a post in a past game. In this post in Kingmaker1, PJscum basically said "yes, Ameliaslay [scumbag] is lurking, but so are Chamber [town] and Fritzler [town]!" Basically, it's a protection ploy to get people away from your scumbuddy and to try to look elsewhere. I am

loving

a Zindie+CDB pairing. I could easily see a handful of players as the third scum, including CES, MGM, or Ether. Maybe even Patrick. Bah... finding that last scumbag is always rough.

643-651 is basically a debate between Patrick and Thesp. It amounts to mutual FoSes. I honestly don't find it terribly interesting, but you're welcome to look at it yourself.

MGM seem seems to side with (if you can call it that) Patrick, FoSing Thesp in 654. He also says that he sees "confusion" from both town and scum. Seems pretty null.

Adele onto Thesp in 657, Thesp cites "CDB, Patrick" as scum in 658.
MGM to Thesp in 667, Zindaras calls Ether "obivously pro-town" when her posts are read in isolation (668).
This is something with which I disagree. On top of that, I would argue that posts with context (as I've been reading) are more telling than in isolation. Trust me, it's easy enough to look pro-town if only your posts are being read.

Zindie to Thesp (lynch -2) in 671.

Glork wants MGM/Adele killed if Thesp is town. Thesp wants CDB/Patrick killed.

Patrick's 677: Defend against Thesp via "argument from repetition" citing. Defends Glork from Adele somewhat, stating he can see where Glork is coming from.

685 from CDB makes me even happier about lynching him.

700 from Ether. Disagrees with Thesp's attack on Pat, doesnt' find Thesp scummy. Scumlist seems to be as such:
Nightfall > MGM > Channel > Thesp.
Ether's post is definitely defensive, and I catch a hint of OMGUS. Not so sure it's a scumtell, though.

More odd Glork-CES semantics in 703-705. CES wants Glork to wagon, Glork says no, CES asks for a deadline.

I sortof skimmed the rest of Page 29. Pages 30-37(38?) will happen at some later date. Possibly.

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Okay, thoughts. I am now *VERY* confident that Thesp is pro-town. I see only one way he could possibly be scum, and it does not seem very likely to me. I also think that his suspicion of CDB was pretty much right on the mark. I still find Zindaras to be reasonably scummy. He either needs to shape up and do some serious work, or he might be facing the axe soon. I'm willing to give MGM a free pass for now, with the investigation on him. He goes in my "proably pro-town" category for now, but if we end up finding scums who make sense as buddies with MGM, I might return to him.

Probably Pro-Town:
MBL
Thesp
Fritz
MGM
Glork

Probably Scum:
CDB
Zindaras

Possibly Scum:
CES
Patrick
At most one of Ether/Nightfall. (Leaning towards Ether, though.)


I will keep my vote on Ether for now, but I will also

FoS: CDB

with intent to vote if Ether checks out okay in her next few posts.

[MrBuddyLee]

fake prediction: our third and final power role will play incredibly lazily today, get themselves cornered into a claim, and get picked off tonight like yet another yorkie yapping at waterbugs on a florida pond.