Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[N]

The following deaths happened during night 2:


havingfitz,

Town Rolecop

[N]

Vote Count 3.00

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(0)

toolenduso

(0)

Sir Bastion

(0)

Slandaar

(0)

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

ICEninja, zakk, Garmr, toolenduso, Sir Bastion, Slandaar, Elyse, Skelda

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-10 11:06:27)

[Skelda]

First of all, I'm caught up up, mostly.

VOTE: ICE. Afraid Thor would say something to incriminate you, are we?

[Elyse]

VOTE: ICENinja

[Sir Bastion]

With those last 2 flips everybody is now back on the board as a suspect for me pretty much

Scum having daychat via thor means no interaction on day 1 or day 2 can be taken at face value, also it was a massive mistake on my part pushing to drag the day out as it allowed scum to take full advantage of thor's ability for an extra day.

Though Tool's case on garmr loses a lot of potential weight.

Also Havingfitz's flip removed one of my suspicions left over from day 1.

That doesnt leave a lot immediate knowledge.

knowing scum had day chat makes it hard to judge how much of the interactions on day 1 and day 2 were controlled I need to go check a few things so will be back with some thoughts on that and a vote based on my findings.



Meanwhile

@Skelda I am very confused by your post?

[toolenduso]

Not really sure what to make of fitz having been a rolecop....he was obviously pushing for ICE on day 2, but then he could have just been suspicious of ICE and received a report of a town-aligned role during night one.

It also would have made sense as mafia to kill fitz to set ICE up (assuming ICE isn't scum). Also Slandaar, to a lesser extent.

I'm kind of leaning toward the possibility that fitz got a report on ICE night 1, because fitz's argument against ICE was kind of dumb and seemed like something he could have pulled out of nowhere to get a confirmed mafia lynched.

I'm gonna wait to vote.

[Elyse]

Yeah same. I'm thinking he's scum #3 trying to save himself by making some dumb remark.

P-edit:
I see what you are saying about fitz being suspicious of ICE yesterday but I don't get the part when you say "but then he could have just been suspicious of ICE and received a report of a town-aligned role during night one." What do you mean by that?

[Sir Bastion]

Skelda has been acting dumb all game (whenever they *rarely* post), to the point that it does look incredibly unlikely someone who has access to daychat with their partners could make such mistakes.

Which is why I need to find a daychat scum QT that Thor was in. I need to get an idea of how much he'd take control of a daychat before I overthink all of this.

[Skelda]

Skelda has been acting dumb all game (whenever they *rarely* post), to the point that it does look incredibly unlikely someone who has access to daychat with their partners could make such mistakes.

Which is why I need to find a daychat scum QT that Thor was in. I need to get an idea of how much he'd take control of a daychat before I overthink all of this.

I don't know what I'm doing, I don't remember what was going on, and I've hardly read the thread. So yes, I imagine I would be.

I'd be putting more effort into this game if I were scum. As it stands, I overbooked myself. And I'm not really in the swing of things. I could just replace out if you don't want to bother dealing with me. Or I could stay and try to makd myself useful somehow.

[toolenduso]

@Elyse: I was saying that perhaps fitz investigated a townie night one, so without any confirmed mafia to chase day 2 he went with his gut, which pointed to ICE.

It would make sense, in a way, for Thor to use his last day clearing his scumbuddy ICE by pushing for a lynch against him (with his "vow"). I hadn't really entertained the idea seriously before because I figured ICE was Thor's only defense after F-16 flipped hider.

[Elyse]

Oh ok now I get it.

[Sir Bastion]

@Elyse: I was saying that perhaps fitz investigated a townie night one, so without any confirmed mafia to chase day 2 he went with his gut, which pointed to ICE.

It would make sense, in a way, for Thor to use his last day clearing his scumbuddy ICE by pushing for a lynch against him (with his "vow"). I hadn't really entertained the idea seriously before because I figured ICE was Thor's only defense after F-16 flipped hider.

This is why it's important to remember Thor and his partners had daychat all the way through day 2. Ice and Thor could very well have been coordinating with ice the push back and forth. But at the same time, they would have known the second thor flipped the jig was up on them having daychat so any such plans would be dangerously flawed.

As for Fitz, if he had found a town pr I would expect he would have breadcrumbed it by at least giving a reads list and putting the player high in town reads. He gave no such reads list so my guess is whoever he looked at on night 1 returned as a vanilla which is worthless.


Very quickly I havnt found a daychat one yet, but from a few of Thor's games as scum in newbie games we get the following:

I never 'plan' Day 1 as scum - I prefer to let it flow as it flows and see where it takes me.
Here's my default scum IC info speech;

Welcome to being dastardly scum, it is our job to kill the living bejeezus out of the town. I have a couple pieces of quick advice for you as newbie scum. Feel free to take what I say and mull it over with your own thoughts. I won't claim these are absolute rules of awesome, but I will say they appear to work pretty well in my opinion.

1. Try to post at least once a day. I know some people advocate lurking as a good scum tactic, I think it is a poor plan overall. Usually people who post consistently are less likely to be lynched than those that don't.

2. When you are attacked, do a controlled attack back. Now, you're almost assuredly going to be attacked at some point this game, and Day 1 is a likely time for it to happen. When you are attacked, don't ignore the attack, at the same time, don't pay attention only to the attack. The best way to respond to an attack is to address it...but then also, in the same post, make a continued press/question/attack on another player; here's an example;

Bad Idea
Player 1: U R Scumz!
You: No I'm not, U R Scumz!
Player 1: See how guilty he sounds? Vote pl0x!

Another Bad Idea
Player 1: U R Scumz!
You: No I'm not, you have no evidence. By the way, don't you agree that Player 2 is scumz?
Player 1: He's trying to deflect me onto Player 2, he is scumz! Lynch Woody na0w!

Good Idea
Player 1: U R Scumz!
You: No I'm not, let me see your case and I'll take it apart, it's silly to think I'm scum.

Oh, yeah, Player 2, earlier when you voted for Player 3 you never said why, what's up with that? Why do you think Player 3 is scum? What did you hope to gain by voting him without explaining why? Answer in your next post!

--------------

Make sense?

3. Forget you're scum. This is my gold standard advice. Here's my super scum strategy secret - TOWN GENERALLY HAS NO IDEA WHAT IT'S DOING AND MOST "SCUMTELLS" ARE MADE UP BALONEY. Don't "try" to get someone mislynched. DOn't do sudden vote switches just to get someone who is town mislynched. What you should do is honestly approach the game as though you were town, and vote people for the reasons you'd normally vote people. Make cases. Ask questions. Develop town reads and react to them like they're town. Develop scum reads and try to get those players lynched. Adjust your reads when new evidence shows up. If you do that all I pretty much promise you that unless a PR catches you that you'll make it to endgame.

4. Don't get tense if I attack you, I probably will - feel free to attack me if I look scummy, in fact I encourage it. But also feel free to blatantly buddy me if you think I look town. Keep an honest interaction with your partner (in a perfect world, forget that I'm your partner and react to me as honestly as possible).

5. If it looks like you're about to be lynched, it is not a bad idea to claim a PR - at least there's a chance you'll sucker out a real one,a nd if not then...hey, you may not be lynched. If you want to fakeclaim a PR it is best to decide which one you intend to do, and remember to PLAY LIKE THAT PR the whole game. Make decisions each night as to what your town PR night actions are - and allow your gameplay to *change* depending on the results you get. For instance - if you plan to claim cop, and decide you'd protect 'Player X' and there is no night kill that night - then prepare to treat 'Player X' like likely town for the rest of the game - and react a little cageishly if people ask you why. Stuff like that.

6. Have fun. Seriously, it's all a game

======================================================

I'm available for any scum related questions you may have - if you have any town related or generic ones, just ask in thread.
Other than that I pretty much plan to kill all the town and dance about on their graves

from here: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/EB4PqZg3ZAXwG


its his standard *scum paste*

funnily enough it's very similar to my own *scum paste* and confirmed my own day 1 thoughts about thor's gamestyle.

regardless that likely puts an end to the notion of a delicately planned illusion on day 1 from thor's side of the scumteam. So I shouldnt overthink his interactions of day 1.

Still looking for a daychat game. He has far too many newbie games, so I'm just going to search for his name in little italy.

[Sir Bastion]

I don't know what I'm doing, I don't remember what was going on, and I've hardly read the thread. So yes, I imagine I would be.

I'd be putting more effort into this game if I were scum. As it stands, I overbooked myself. And I'm not really in the swing of things. I could just replace out if you don't want to bother dealing with me. Or I could stay and try to makd myself useful somehow.

Then just explain your post.

What do you mean by Ice being afraid of Thor incriminating him? Is there a particular post where ICE tried to shut day 2 down early or avoided chatting to thor?

[Sir Bastion]

and a daychat game with scumthor is found: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/tHcinY336nM

[Slandaar]

VOTE: ICENINJA

[toolenduso]

ICE is at L-2. There are two mafia left.

[Garmr]

Tool just curious do you think ice is scum?

[toolenduso]

I'm not sure. He's definitely on the list, but I don't see any damning evidence. Do you?

[Sir Bastion]

ICE is at L-2. There are two mafia left.

huh...

and you are so sure neither of them are on the wagon already (we'll let slide how sure you are there are 2, since 3 is the common number for a mini)

[Slandaar]

I'm not sure. He's definitely on the list, but I don't see any damning evidence. Do you?

I do.

The part where he was like 'haha you are hilarious ABR making up a case on Thor!!!' Clearly not town.

[ICEninja]

Jesus I haven't even had a chance to vote and if my wagon is all town I could be quick hammered. Good thing it isn't all town.

So here's my conspiracy theory that makes SO MUCH more sense now that we saw a daychat flip (

NOTE: I have never to memory encountered an encrypter before, but I have not only encountered scum with daychat but BEEN scum with daychat. Therefore I believe that either only Thor was allowed to post and the other read or Thor was able to have a one-on-one with one but not all scum. Otherwise they would just have daytalk powers and the name "encrypter" would not have been neccesary. I believe scum's daytalk abilities died with thor

) I think Slandaar is a very likely scum buddy for Thor.

Think about it. How many players told Slandaar to STFU and he never listened? Even Thor himself had an awkward response in post 462 that really made me make a weird face though I didn't understand at the time. Thor was, through daytalk, pushing Slandaar to push push push and they had this HUGE d1 back and forward. It was the perfect distancing scheme.

How many of you would, as town, do what Slandaar did d1 with such a stupidly weak case? Both Slandaar and Thor damn well knew Thor wasn't going to be lynched d1.

I also suspect that there's a decent change Garmr was taking ques from Thor during d1 to push zakk while still lending support to the ABRwagon, and eventually throwing in his vote. I made a whole case on it during the weekend in a word doc, but one particular post from Garmr kind of throws a loop through the whole idea.

A quick look at vote counts shows Skelda as the most likely partner to Thor, and based literally just on the D1 lynch zakk is the only other possibility if neither Skelda nor Slandaar is scum.

Slandaar is the best bet here. For reasons stated earlier I think zakk is probtown, and while I feel like I have a decent case on Garmr, the one issue I have with that would cause me to hesitate to lynch him today. Skelda would be my second preference, and that's pretty much just PoE from votecounts, as there's virtually nothing to analyze in the whole slot.

Vote Slandaar

.

PEDIT: I was laughing because of how fucking ridiculous D1 was. After a while I just couldn't take it seriously.

[Slandaar]

So the answer is no you had no clue and thus it needed attention considering it is Thors entire case.

I glanced over it, thought "This is pretty unimportant, I'm going to pay attention to things that actually matter now", and the more you and Thor went on about it the more sure I was that one of you was scum.

Pretty sure which one it is right now.

What do you think about Thors case on me being completely made up by changing my wording?

That you're oversensitive about having the wording slightly changed to explain why he thinks what you did was scummy. Let me give an example:

Side by side
Thors Version: that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!
Actual Version: My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

Those things are pretty much the same thing, with a spin on it to emphasize how unreasonable you're being. And you call it a misrep (I'm starting to begin to think no one in this game actually understands what misrepresentation is).

OK SLANDAAR I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.

WHY DO YOU THINK REPEATING OVER AND OVER AGAIN THIS SAME SHIT THAT NO ONE BUT YOU THINKS IS SCUMMY IS GOING TO MAKE US THINK HE IS SCUMMY?

@Ice - Actually, looking at those reads, I'm starting to lean 'not Slaandar' with ABR, really. What do you think about that?

The voting patterns indicate that Slandaar and Albert are

probably

not connected, but day 1 voting patterns I take with a grain of salt until the lynch happens. I don't want to go in to my reasoning as for why I think Slandaar is scum based on Albertscum in case I'm wrong about Albert, I think it's pretty dumb (and sometimes even benefiting of scum) to go too much in to associative tells when everyone involved is alive.

Bastion's summary of Albert's actions in 518 is pretty much spot on. It is quite similar to what I was planning on posting, minus the fact that I would word "appeal to authority" as using sheer force of will/personality to accomplish a goal instead of using logic, which has been a trend sch as his "defense" against my original attack on him. While I know this simply is something Albert does, the fact that he has no good scum leads at the moment (or all day really) and has been using this force anyway to direct town seems to play a lot more to a scum win condition than town.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH LEAVE THOR ALONE!!!

Well show me this misrep I assume you know what it is Ice.

The existence or non existence of any misrep that may or may not have happened has

zero

implications of my read on you. Now please start being useful or I will seriously just start skipping your posts because you hardly ever say anything new. I seriously cannot believe how caught up you are on shit that happened in the first few pages of the game when there is SO. MUCH. CONTENT. TO. TALK. ABOUT.

God I hope we have a vig...

I DUNNO WHATS GOING ON I HAVE NO OPINION ON IF THERE WAS A MISREP OR NOT BECAUSE I AM A SCUMBAG WHO HAS NOT LOOKED AT WHAT THOR IS SAYING

Like, I seriously cannot believe that pretty much 2 pages were dedicated to talking about this.

Thor's suggestion of Slandaar being lynched after Albert flips scum makes a lot of sense to me, as I have already stated that Albert being scum makes Slandaar look like scum too.

YEAH SLAND SCUM IF ABR SCUM!!! HAR HAR HAR THAT WILL STOP SLAND TRYING TO LYNCH MY BUDDY THOR!!!

Thor just stop engaging him. We all realize how insane he sounds.

HEY THOR IGNORE SLAND PLEASE BUDDY YOU ARE GOING TO GET LYNCHED OTHERWISE

Also, with the VT claim, I'm pretty much happy lynching ABR at this point.

I do want the replacements to have some more time to contribute, however, and TCold really needs some damn attention right now.

We've got a few days, but I don't think day 1 needs to run up to the deadline

OK ABR CLAIMED VT LETS LYNCH HIM!!!

Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter. Slandaar really is the only one pushing elsewhere.

The only way this makes sense is if both scum buddies is in Slandaar and [all the lurkers]. Which now that I think about it, could be entirely possible, but still.

I'm feeling uneasy about this.

What are people's opinion of lynching Slandaar today and worrying about ABR later? The biggest reason I can think of to not do this would be that ABR already claimed, but beside that gut is telling me this is the right move.

TCold would still be a solid option too, though it looks like he's going to end up being force replaced, and we did just get a new player. I suppose I'll sit on this for a little. For the record I'm still willing to lynch ABR but day 1 wagons that have so minimal counter push tend to fall on town.

HRM THIS IS TOO EASY MAYBE ABR TOWN ANYONE WANNA LYNCH SLAND INSTEAD??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's three votes on Garmr and three on Thor right now. Do those not count as wagons?

Not if you look at WHO the votes on Garmr are.

"I barely remember Thor"
"Thor is so good at scum he can make me have doubts"
"Thor is being so bad and oversimplifying, he is obv. scum."

Flail more.

While I admit I've been nodding along with much of what ABR has said, exactly this kept popping in my head. Honestly, I was this close || to being convinced that I was wrong and ABR is town but he lies about knowing how Thor plays. Repeatedly. And this isn't the drawing people out and gathering reads, this is blatantly lying about what you know about Thor.

Go to MD and look at my playstyle as scum. I broke it down for you.

No, meta defenses like this are scummy. You're certainly too good of a player for it to be that easy to tell.

Barring something dramatic, i'll be voting Garmr or Thor at the end of the day period.
I'll wait and see where the replacements vote etc.

And this actually makes me feel a little better about my decision.

My vote stays where it is. I'm not confident at all here, but I feel like this is town's best bet.

OK I AM HAPPIER TO LYNCH ABR NOW THAT MY TOWN READ MAX HAS SHOWN OPPOSITION TO IT!

You're at L-2. I highly doubt you'll end up quicklynched. I as well don't like all the AtE you've been putting out.

And just to remind people, deadline is actually coming up soon. We've got a few days, but if someone wants to derail this wagon on ABR it had better be right now, and damn convincing.

ANYONE WANNA DERAIL THE ABR WAGON??? ANYONE??? I COULD USE A WAGON ON A TOWNIE TO SEE WHAT THEY CLAIM!!!

I'm feeling a lot better about this ABR lynch based on things like what Maxous just said and how so many people are deliberately avoiding this elephant in the room.

This feels a LOT more like trying to lynch scum. It is HARD to.

YEAH MAX SHOWING OPPOSITION TO THIS WAGON MAKES ME FEEL HAPPIER WITH THE LYNCH!!!

I've told you time and time again to actually contribute to this game instead of repeating over and over and over (ad nasium) about the same points that

every single player in this game besides you

agree are meaningless.

I'm not the only one frustrated about it. I'm just calling it like I see it.

LOOK SLAND STOP TRYING TO LYNCH THOR AND DO SOMETHING ELSE LIKE HELP ME LYNCH TOWN ABR

Honestly. Please.

Do us a favor and read your own ISO. I want you to understand the % of your content that is related in one way or another to some misrep that may or may not have happened in the first few pages of the game.

It's overwhelming. You're unwilling to talk about anything else.

Your entire case on Thor is predicated on how he responds to interactions regarding this misrep. You made some pathetic attempt to scum hunt me and then that was it, back to "look how Thor handled this SUPER FUCKING IMPORTANT misrep, he's SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY SCUM".

Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?

PLEASE LOOK HOW MUCH YOU ARE TRYING TO LYNCH MY BUDDY THOR!!! I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THIS MISREP STUFF!!!!

Because I'm quite happy with either lynch. As of this moment, I'm more confident in ABR flipping scum, though not by much.

If town really wanted to swing and lynch Slandaar instead today (as I believe I've alluded to before) I'd be alright with that. There just doesn't seem like much momentum for that.

AH COME ON YOU GUIZ LETS LYNCH SLAND!!! HE HASNT CLAIMED AND ABR WHO I AM CONFIDENT IS SCUM IS GOING TO BE LYNCHED BUT THAT DONT MATTER SLAND LYNCH MUCH MORE PROFITABLE FOR ME!!!!

[Sir Bastion]

one post never put me off a wagon so quickly...

[Slandaar]

Its a fantastic case showing why Ice is undoubtably scum. Do you understand the part where he suggests ABR is an easy lynch then his TOWN read Max shows opposition and he immediately changed his stance to 'yeah OK I am happier now!'

[Slandaar]

I mean I understand it Ice is scum trying to appear town that IS his posting in a nutshell the content is terrible.

Whats his case on me? I was trying to lynch scum all Day 1 lol.