Mini 408 - EXiLE Mafia, MOD ABANDONED

[Skruffs]

Jdodge - so, borrowing from your own style of debating, does this mean you think town should not work together towards a favorable outcome? Or jsut nto work together at all?

Maz - yes, it's possible for scum to do that. Yup! But why would they want to? What would be the point? Assuming that A and B are not scum - why would scum want to shoot them at all? They wouldn't. They would want to keep the scummy people alive, because those people provide a nice big distraction that the scum can hide behind. THey would prefer to kill, for example, the pro town player who isn't acting suspicious - or the claimed cop.

If the two of them are on the nomination block - and they will know, since it will be obvious - than they will not shoot each other.

If only one of them is scum, than what benefit will it give B to shoot A and be nominated alongside C? There is none, esp if C is not as scummy or A and B. B (As scum) will want to be nominated alongside town so that they can argue to get the otehr lynched, seem 'cleared', and thus be not nominated the next night.

This is basically a repeat of an earlier post, however, I do not mind reciting it, because I know my posts are long and boring.

[quote "Maz"] The block will, indeed, consist of the most popular nominees, but the scum have to guess who those will be based on clues in-thread, which is much much harder than handing them our numbers on a silver fucking platter. [/quote]
First, Considering the numbers won't matter if they are SOLID (7 strong for example), let's look at the base root of what YOU want. You think we need to somehow 'outsmart scum' by nto letting them know who is giong to be nominated. They have to 'guess' that way. But if the scum has to guess who's being nominated, so will town, won't they?

How will we express suspicion of each other with out indicating people we are suspicious of and THEREFORE likely to nominate? Scum come in a block of, by your own pretty numbers, three. How can four townies scucessfully agree to nominate the same two people without "Giving the numbers to the scum on a silver fucking platter"? I'm saying your silver fucking platter doesn't matter, and the numbers on it, don't really matter if we make the scum Choke on them.

Lastly. (yay, you all sing)
This is not about unpredictable vs random at all. You are intelligent, and I think you are aware of this. Which is why I don't like your sweeping generalizations about my ability to copmrehend your 'masterful plan', because the more you talk about it the more it looks full of Shit.

Based on our talk - assuming you are town - I think there will be one or two townies nominating you tonight. If you are not scum, I can be pretty sure that scum will gleefully add another three onto you, and if romanus is townie, probably him as well. That's 4 or five votes. Do you think anyone else in the game (Excluding myself) will be getting more than five 'popular' votes? Dean, a few, maybe. JDodge, maybe a few. Anyone else? Hmm. Doubt it.

Romanus - all you seem to be doing is saying I'm not talking about who I think is suspicious. I do not like the way JDodge is sitting in Maz's lap regarding his opinion of this stuff. HE originally debated with me, but when MAz 'took the handle', and started deferring to him almost immediately. I know how relieving it can be to get an ally when you are in a losing battle, but the immediate trust makes me suspicious of the both of them. Maz's peculiar shifting talking pattern also bothers me. He basically treats everyone like an ass until called on it, then posts a very informed-sounding post with very little meat in it - as seems to be the case in almost all of his posts when he posts something. Regardless of hte content of his post, the fact that he *can* be informed sounding but *chooses* to sound like an ass is also suspicious. IF you have class, why not use it? Him FOSing RR for 'just not beign right' back in the beginning and their vulgar interchanges since then reeks of hypocrasy. Ghyrt similarly seemed pretty arrogant for someone who is in no danger. I do not think dean and jack are working together, honestly.

Now it's your turn - I'll ask you to contribute something yourself, rather than just asking of others.
Which of the lurkers you said you will probably nominate do you think are the most suspicious?

[Jack]

Jesus christ it's simple math. We don't need to outnumber scum we just need to equal them. Voting in a block, they can put no more than 3 nominations on a single player.

Random

nomination by the town will result in as many town chosen nominations as your system. If we can figure out who the town nominated tomorrow, then we can figure who the scum nominated, which gives us more information. This is very good for the town. I think you are worried about this, and so are pushing your plan which can teach us nothing.

I really don't like dean and romanus's push for deadline.

[DeanWinchester]

I get very tired with circular talk that goes no where for 25 pages.

[Mariyta]

I'm here. I'll get to reading as soon as I can.

[JDodge]

Jdodge - so, borrowing from your own style of debating, does this mean you think town should not work together towards a favorable outcome? Or jsut nto work together at all?

No, rather that while we should work together towards a favorable outcome and while the info from nominations is still misleading, I no longer believe that having a set-in-stone nomination plan is the best course of action.

Romanus - all you seem to be doing is saying I'm not talking about who I think is suspicious. I do not like the way JDodge is sitting in Maz's lap regarding his opinion of this stuff. HE originally debated with me, but when MAz 'took the handle', and started deferring to him almost immediately.

Oh, stupid schoolyard teasing. Nice to see we've become so mature over the course of this game!

[Maz Medias]

The scum have to guess who town's nominating. The town doesn't have to guess who town's nominating; the town nominates whoever its members do. Each individual townie does not need to coordinate their actions with other townies during the nomination stage.

Also, I'd like to call in logistics: how often is the entire town going to agree on two people? How often is this two-person plan going to force us into guaranteed mislynches? What happens when we can't agree on two people - do we put up three, four, five evenly?

[Romanus]

And when is all this going to happen when we are still debating tactics rather than scum-hunting.

That is why I want a deadline, so that we can get to scum hunting rather than debating tactics.

[Raging Rabbit]

This town is just way too active considering the incredibly low amount of free time I have atm, but I'll try to catch up sometimes later today.

[Skruffs]

Everyone

If you have not realized it, tommorrow's nominated people are going to be a result of today's talks.. Having a 'fake vote' today will allow us to nominate the group-decided two scummiest-seeming people tommorrow. Tommorrow we talk about who should be nominated the next day, while deciding which of the two people that alerady are nominated, should be lynched that day. So there needs to be foreplanning.

Jack

- I am not worried about anything. Saying something is simple math is a lot different than exlpaining in numerical terms how it is simple math. I am pointing out the only system that town has to be able to decisively lynch who they want to instead of being forced to lynch who scum (because we must never underestimate their ability to fuck with the nomination process - Just ask Maz, he knows) want them to. However, I will consider your point - see Maz's argument below.

Romanus

- Will you be able to do scum hunting tommorrow that you can't do today? Allt his talk of scum hunting you are advocating is not equal to the amount of scum hunting you are doing.

JDodge

- thank you for calling me out on schoolyard teasing, I have also noticed you do not call people who agree with you out for being snide or condescending.

Maz

- Scum will not have to guess. IF town has any kind of communication it will be obvious who some people will be voting. Scum only need to know who a few people are voting to be able to get what they want done. You have said this yourself.
Not everyone agrees on every lynch, do they? All it takes is a majority. If people choose not to do the nomination system, they can simply not state in any terms who they are likely to nominate, and scum will have to guess- like you say - but for those of us who want to actually work together and be effective, why not put it RIGHT out there loud and clear to see if scum can do anything about it, at least night one?


So...

Who does everyone want to lynch tommorrow

?
Let's just say each person has two 'votes' each. Say who, and why.
I'll go first. I would like to see

Nominate :Maz

to be up here tommorrow. I would like for him to experience the nomination/lynching process from the other side.
I would also like to

Nominate : Mariyta

to be up here. Nothign against Mariyta, but yellowbounder was the last person to reveal his nominations, and thus the most likely to have been covering up for scum buddies. Plus it will help Mariyta get into the groove of things.

If you don't want to reveal who you think should be lynched tommorrow - than simply say "I decline to comment" and I will not bug you abuot it anymore.. This should satisfy the independants who don't want their choices screwed with.
If at least 7 people do this, than a majority of them have to be town, and we can test-drive with this. That should satisfy Jack.

This is the absolute best I can do. I encourage you to lynch me after we have discussed who should be nominated tommorrow, to at least prove that I really have the town's best interests at heart. This is hte *only* reason why I am not voting JDodge right now. It's been very tempting to change my vote.

As it stands I will respect Romanus's and other's wishes, and I will not push my thoughts on what we should do today, except for discussing who I think is scummy, and thus am likely to nominate. If someone thinks my choices are wrong, I think they should be free to argue with me about this.

Okay? /end tirade.

Bunny, get to hopping.

[Maz Medias]

I decline to comment - obviously.

[JDodge]

I'm going to

Nominate

: Whomever I feel like choosing when the time comes.

JDodge - thank you for calling me out on schoolyard teasing, I have also noticed you do not call people who agree with you out for being snide or condescending.

Because I do not find them snide or condescending.

[Romanus]

As an aside, Skruffs, I do see the use of a plan like yours in future days, just not today.

I actually would like to hear more from more people before I make comment on who I would like to see nominated. Mariyta is at the top of the list, with Ghyrt, and the other lurkers. I do hate lurkers, especially in a game like this. However, I do understand why someone would decide to stay out of this.

[Mariyta]

You don't know me very well, do ya Skruffs. I tend to get belligerent and obnoxious when people point fingers at me.

[Mariyta]

BTW, I'm on page... 6? 7? Will read a bit more tomorrow at work.

[Romanus]

And Mariyta just got knocked down a couple of rungs on the nomination ladder for me.

[Ghyrt]

Wow. I'm really sorry for not being on the ball. I almost considered replacing out, but I don't think anyone would want to replace this late. I do want to play, but every time I sit down here, the task seems worse. I have a week long break coming up after this week. I'll probably read it sometime then.

I have many, many pages to read, so this may or may not have been covered in detail, but I was thinking we let Skruffs go too easily. It occurred to me that he could be using simple reverse psychology, perhaps wanting us to think he was a jester.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I'm with Maz and JDodge on the nomination thing.

unvote, vote:Skruffs

... he's done nothing in the last few pages that tells me he's worth keeping alive, imo.

[DeanWinchester]

Ok.

I'm sure skruffs(please tell me i'm right) skruffs will come up town.

After the last bout of comments I still think ghyrt and maz are our best noms.
With jack being a very close third.

The current noms: I was really for cheesefan, but jdodges recent comments have me thinking the graph shouldn't have bought him the pass I gave him.

In this game the town HAS TO DECIDE WHO THEY WANT TO LYNCH THE DAY BEFORE THE LYNCH. The town is at an inherent disadvantage because we HAVE to play a day ahead. Tommorow's discussion will NOT help us tommorow, but on the third day.

[Skruffs]

Ghyrt - I see what your reasoning is from but I believe your viewpoint is from a few pagse back, when one of the biggest issues was one RR made fo me beign a martyr. If you didn't notice, I'm not being 'let go'. Thank you for sticking with it tho

I'm now at -1 (danke TCS). Someone could place the final vote on me now, and town will have to decide who to nominate. For my part, I kinda hope Maz is up here in the morning. Scum will have no reason to nightkill Maz, JDodge, or TCS, so, it's not like those nomination votes would be wasted.

Romanus - thanks at least for the vote of support.
Dean understands the basis of what I am trying to say; we have to narrow down tommorrow today, collectively. Anyways you will probably figure it out, but doing it sooner rather than later will give town the biggest advantage.

Mariyta - yes I remember that from PR3. Do you think I am pointing fingers at you? I'm not. My suggestion of your nomination was based entirely on the stallingness of your predecessor.

[Mariyta]

On page 17, posting my thoughts for now because I don't want to read anymore of this nonsense.

Cheesefan-Follows JDodge in most everything
JDodge-Offends some people, but doesn't seem super scummy right now
RR-Completely and utterly focused on "fixing" nominations and controlling the whole game, clearly not helpful to the town at all. Causing chaos and distracting from more important things (like deciding who may be scum)

This game is NOT about how nominations should be decided. It's about who the scum are. There is way too much focus on that at this point (up to page 17).

My scummy scum scum list is: Ghyrt, TCS, and Dean (See post 326)

[Mariyta]

Forgot my view on Skruffs: seems highly pro-town right now. Not getting any scum vibes.

[Mariyta]

OH.... MY.... GOD.... This has to be the WORST game I have ever replaced into. For heaven's sake, people, focus on the game!! Right now there is so much useless banter going on, this game is ridiculous. Anyway, I understand the case against Cheesefan (he's unhelpful, at best). Skruffs... the last few pages have been just silly arguing, but I still feel he's town. JDodge is sensible (for the most part) and I don't see a case for him right now. RR was beligerent and just wanted to argue about ridiculous points... and then disappeared.

Unvote, Vote RR

Also, has anyone else noticed Dean's complete and utter defense of RR? Total insistence that he's town, despite RR's behavior.

[DeanWinchester]

Arggggggg

The graph helps. (Period)
Right now we have to be carfule how we use it, as the game progresess the info from the day one noms will be very helpfu.
Can I get that picture as my avatar? I LOVE it.
Skruffs argument was so Damn good I wanted to believe it over my Role PM, and nominate myself for being scum.

We need to figure out noms and vote. This day needs to get a little close to ending.
I say Nominate Ghryt and Jack. Jack because of the graph. Ghryt because he is scum. Romanus and Maz can wait.

Vote: cheesefan

His not tyrying to defend himself has me thinking he is the best one out of the current noms. And the graph has me atm thinking Jdodge is town.

This is the post, right? I don't get whats scumie about it.

My defense of rabbit is because, I think he is town and that he was getting ganged up on be ghyrt and maz.

As long as you nominate me and Ghyrt I'm happy.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

unvote

Having second thoughts about this.

When I get home I'll reread and post analysis.

[Romanus]

Also, we are not completely playing this thing a day behind, as if nothing gets done tomorrow except what is going to happen the day after. WE STILL HAVE TO DECIDE ON SOMEONE TO LYNCH. Which, by the by, we haven't pulled off yet.

The amount of absolute statements about the game is getting crazy.

I am leaning toward a RR nomination right now, possibly Ghyrt. Though the lurking is decreasing.

I still think Cheesefan should die today.