Mini 1501: We're On A Boat! (END?! results inside)

[LolWagons]

Hey guys, before anyone goes digging this is just Slaxx on an alt. The alts name makes me really happy and I dont feel confident enough to grace the old slaxx account with my presence yet. Expect a post later tonight.

[LolWagons]

Spoiler: PbP, If you care

#12>

The miller claim is probably town mainly because of post #18. The logic there may or may not be right but the part about TvT ending with a bad result either way seems genuine.

# 36>

Is a town post. So is the follow up.

#47>

Not for sure what to make of that lol-L2-wagon, but probably lends credence to Briantown

#57>

Good post by YYR.

Aero wagon was probably a good wagon at that time, though I think I recall getting a townread later on in that slot.

#102>

Thought I was going to be voting Kaze until this post, that "oh wait a minute no he's null" looks genuine

#110 and 111>

Good points by CTD. I like how he reads FF and Kaze as town, I tend to agree that those are my biggest town reads so far. Not sure about NS.

Yeah, CTD callin it like it is. Biggest townread currently.

#118>

Valuable input from maestro

#119/120>

More townposting

#130>

Garm's patience and reiterations reads town to me here

#143>

Pretty much proving CTD's points with this post.

#158>

Ah, this is where I got my SK townread. Okay. I especially like the Spyrex-relevant items. This is SK town.

#164>

Slight town here from Plum

#183>

Spyrex is now a broken record

#200>

GG

#211>

Goodposting, I agree. Brianskies town isn't sounding very good anymore.

I don't like Kaze's responses to SleepyKrew, and I don't like Kaze much as town either.

Page 11 is giving me brain tumors and ulcers. Plum saved it. Forgot CDB existed.

#293>

Is just terrible regardless of aligment.
I honestly can't tell if Kaze is just letting his ego make his play shit or he's purposefully just putting up a wall.

#303>

Idk what to think of this yet but its noteworthy so Im leaving it here for a reminder to myself.

#335>

All I see from spyrex is a list of townreads and opinions on lurkers who haven't done anything, in addition to joining the biggest wagon. I'm not sold.

#347>

this is bad but the worst thing is there IS NO FUCKING VOTE WITH LIKE A POOL OF FOUR PEOPLE TO VOTE WTF IS THIS

#387>

Sigh I give up

the FF/ Gar exchange looks town.


I get the votes on Maestro but I think they'd be better off elsewhere.

Town: SK, CTD, Ffer
Leaning Town: Gar, Plum
Lurkers/Null: CDB, Empire, NS, YYR
Leaning Scum: Kaze, Brian
Scum: Spyrex

Vote: Spyrex

[LolWagons]

@ffer: Why.

SK, I'm glad you liked my name and I missed you much.

[LolWagons]

Woah wait are we talking spyrex or Kaze here? I'm talking Spyrex.

[LolWagons]

I see you were talking Kaze, my mistake. I have similiar reservations though not for meta reasons. His early tell about redoing a read seemed really genuine to me but the more his game progressed the more he just seemed completely unwilling to cooperate and play nice with others. It's annoying and its not protown but its not quite enough to vote him.

Spyrex on the other hand, I want to bathe in Spyrexblood. I hope its green.

[LolWagons]

I also kinda feel like, having read his catchup post, Slaxx should be voting Brian ahead of Spyrex.

I was voting Spyrex for the same reason you don't want to vote Spyrex. He is usually a much more proactive and aggressive person with a lot to offer as town and it seemed like he was dancing around actually doing anything besides commenting on the Miller claim and lurkers. Plus, I am familiar with his playstyle and a wagon on him would give me more info anyway. I realize the importance of a town block and its something I too utilize but I also try to actively move the game forward. His recent responses have given me pause and I'm not 100% sure how I feel about the wagon anymore. Quite honestly, I don't like the company I'm in on it nor do I like how it formed.

unvote

I like Kaze's recent post as far as thought process. I'm not for sure if I agree with the logic, I want to see Empire's response before I make a decision there.

In the meantime,

vote Brian Skies

.

[LolWagons]

What is a "town block/townbloc"? I've heard it used a couple times now but I can't find the term on the wiki. In context, it sounds like a group of townreads. Confirm?

SK is correct, I use it more loosely to define a bunch of people I set saide that I think are highly unlikely to be scum. It helps with signal to noise ratio, but you just have to remember to always check yourself occasionally. I can't focus on the game or put peices together if I'm constantly and completely paranoid of 12 other players the entire game, sometimes a leap of faith just helps.

[LolWagons]

Plum is still leaning town, Empire and NS's jump on the wagon I didn't particularly like, they made me a bit wary.

Kaze made a good point about empire's post, and NS has seemed to easily rise and drop suspicions based on the crowd short of leading the Aero wagon early game.

[LolWagons]

@CTD

The main thing that gave me pause is Spyrex's "I'm not going to answer this, if you look hard enough you can find it" post right before my own. I generally read those as town if they are in a certain context (not deflecting, actually serving to be productive) and its a context I believe this one was in. Scum are generally looking for appeasement and to justify all their reads, when you see someone say "if you look hard enough you'll find it" it seems to always be blatant deflecting or very blunt and genuine. This particular instance gave me the latter feeling.

NSs random vote on Spy makes more sense now and you'd have a hard time convincing me NS wasn't town after this.

@ SK
Its partly a meta read but that meta is a year old. Im no fool. Its more just a game specific read.

This was more of a response post, I plan to take another look at the thread after I open up my mind with a workout and some post workout liquor.

[LolWagons]

Also, CTD, as a passing thought and a general rule, if I don't have to fight for the first half of a wagon I lead I ALWAYS get paranoid.

[LolWagons]

SK would you be voting him if he had not claimed miller?

For me, its more of just scummy play in general rather than the claim. For me the claim itself sheds more doubt on him-scum than his play. I think I even mentioned that in my catchup post.

I wish I had a vote for scum and a vote for pressure but since I can't piss and sneeze at the same time I'm just going to be blunt:

YYR, who is scum and why u no vote? The content you've put forth is lackluster and for a while I was kind of BotDing you but your posts seem to say many things without saying many things.

I'll probably post nightly but this Friday I plan on doing a reread with Spyrex/NotSci neighborbuddies in mind and less people in my townpile and see if approaching the game from a different perspective helps at all.

[LolWagons]

Here, sorry. I just burnt my hand on a stove top and now have a nice second degree burn. I'll try to keep up with the game but posts will be short for a bit for what should be ovious reasons.

[LolWagons]

For starters what do you think of the YY slot Plum?

[LolWagons]

I honestly don't even know what to add at this point.

I still have a nice townblock going but all the slots that give me the willies are now revolving doors, and I'm honestly not for sure what to think about that. I can't imagine all the scum are just lurking and replacing, it doesn't seem right. Surely at least one would be out there trying to influence the game. Am I WIFOMING myself too hard here?

[LolWagons]

I had a weird Townread on him to start. I felt his vote on the Aero wagon was perhaps less objectionable than most others (maybe this has too much to do with expectations of a player to see or not see that a wagon is shallow?) and his point and vote on Kaze were original, pithy, and relevant. All the rest was pretty meh and the fact that I didn't object was probably due to those expectations and early read as Town (and fferylt's point about how he called the initial Brian wagon 'too coincidental' when he voted Aero is good reason to reconsider that feeling as well). Hopefully having a new player in the slot will help me refocus.

Yeah, I also liked the initial posting but it went stale pretty quick.

You don't seem too upset the wagon youre on isnt taking off anymore. Has anything changed about your read?

[LolWagons]

lol idk about my wagon buddies but i aint voting brian because of a miller claim

[LolWagons]

Who would be a better vote, CTD?

its your vote. use your own brain,

[LolWagons]

that second question is bad and its also pointless

[LolWagons]

Its be like me asking you what you thought of your own behavior. You're basically asking the slot to read itself which gets you nowhere. The ratio of dogs he has in that fight: total dogs he has is basically 1.

[LolWagons]

Everyone died ;-;

This post makes me think notscience is town. You'd think it was an easy thing to say but I've been burned recently by scum who just sat back and observed nothing happening while nothing was happening.

Out of all that's transpired you think thats what makes him town? I know sometimes its the insignificant things that seem really genuine but that is really stretching it.

[LolWagons]

I see where you're coming from with the spy mafia game (one of the games I skimmed to get a feel for the new site meta since ive been gone a while) but to me it looks more like you decided on him being town and gave that reason to justify it afterwards. To me thats more likely to come from scum.

[LolWagons]

CDB that read might have held up on like page 8, but so much has happened since then its kind of weird to let something like that sway your opinion that much.

So NS, why YYR? Earlier you said you could be swayed to vote Brian but nothing came of that. Didn't take much to get you to swing over and park your vote on that slot. Plan on participating the next couple days or you just gonna leave that there and wait for the replacement?

[LolWagons]

Expect a fairly big post coming tonight, I plan on rereading later, particularly with emphasis on the last half or so of the game.

[LolWagons]

Sigh wtf is this game.

Upon my reread I decided i had a townread on Kaze but Peabody went and fucked that up the pooper, then I had a null-scum read on YYR and GG came in and made me rethink that.

I find GG's play more of an obnoxious "focusing on the trees and cant see the forest" type of play but I really like some of the things he is picking out and paying attention to. I (obviously) don't agree with his overall thought process but certain details he has picked up on (such as the mod-SK interaction...something I noticed and debated whether reading into or not) feel much more likely to come from town. I need more before I can read this slot in full, but I like the direction its going, though hate its mode of transport.

I also don't like NSs play, I think its also fucking obnoxious, and I really really wanted to agree with Spyrex's logic of "he only voted me after a wagon formed on me" because getting rid of a strong town player in a neighborhood with just you as newer scum would of course be ideal as scum, but I feel like NS-scum would have the foresight to know that would bite him in the ass because spyspy was going to claim eventually, and then where does that leave NS? Scum dont like 1v1s even under that amount of pressure.

Garmr's obliviousness to the NS/ Spy debacle makes me think if one of them is scum he almost surely is not, I feel like if there were pre-game chat, which I think was allowed in the neighborhood if i recall correctly, then Garmr would know via a scumbuddy relaying that information to him who was with his scumbuddy in the neighborhood (its fair to assume if the neighbors got pre game, so did the scum).



CTD and FFer are still very strong townreads to me, nothing changed here. SK is trailing slightly behind, and Garmr slightly behind that (this ones mainly gut). Somewhere in all this I lost my leaning townread I had on Plum.

That leaves 8 people.
Spy, NS, CDB, Plum, Peabody, GG, Empire, Brian Skies.

I don't want to touch the neighborhood today. I still think the emotions that came from both sides of that were pants on head retarded but also relatively hard to fake. I think
1. They're both more likely to be town (both due to OLD site meta I need to chec up on or just be corrected on and scumhunting reads)
2. We can give them more time together to sort shit out and garner more info from them
3. There's no way they're both scum, and assuming my townreads are right and three scum there are still 2-3 scum left to be found in

CDB, Plum, Peabody, GG, Empire, Brian skies.

That's where I have to quit tonight. I'll sleep on it and go from there tomorrow., probably much earlier in the evening than tonight because I realize a deadline is approaching.

[LolWagons]

CDB that read might have held up on like page 8, but so much has happened since then its kind of weird to let something like that sway your opinion that much.

And if I thought things that happened before made a significant contribution to my notscience read, I would have mentioned it. I don't think it's at all weird to spot little things at any point in the game that click something in your head. It's absolutely normal.

Thing is, you did. you already had NS in a tentative townpile without explanation (I ctrl fed NS and notscience in your iso and read some posts and the surrounding context, correct me if im wrong) so it seemed redundant to reapply that read to him. It also seems like, as you said, just having reads for the sake of reads. I hate using this word because I don't fucking like it, but the whole process doesn't feel organic. I feel like there would be way more to derive from the Spy/ NS argument than that little comment and had you done that to SUPPLEMENT existing logic on that NS town read I would have been okay with it.

Plum, what happened to you Kaze read in between your initial vote and the Peabody vote? Also what your current read on CDB and why?

[LolWagons]

Insomnia is a bitch

So, Empire, we are taking emotional appeals over shitty scumhunting as evidence now? I don't really know who you are but I picked up from context clues people expected you to be wiser than that.

[LolWagons]

"Seemed really fake" and "Were really bad" are very different.

[LolWagons]

I'll sleep on that logic and see how i feel tomorrow.

Expect a post and a new vote from me 16 hours or so from now, possibly twelve if i post on lunch from my phone. We really need to start getting organized, people.

[LolWagons]

Peabody, that reads list has hardly changed besides Spyrex and I explained that. All my town reads besides plum are the same. Also, I didn't stop you from answering that question, you elected not to. I pointed out it was useless and bad, I did not proactively discourage you from answering it. But it really is useless.

[LolWagons]

Sorry just realized you might have im on my phone. Regardless I didn't tell you not to answer.

[LolWagons]

I was eating my sushi thinking about this and realized if you didn't answer the question you're in big ducking trouble mister. I'll explain why after I get off work and go home and look.

And I told you guys id sift through the rest of the bills after work.

[LolWagons]

Nulls lol damn phone

[LolWagons]

Ok so now I just have to ask why you are so concerned about that question when you feel the exact same way as I do about it.

And I already said that the reactions from both sides read more as genuine paranoid town. Also a year ago when I played town neighbors seemed to be way more common. Keeping them around generated a bit more info too, but that's a bonus, not a reason.

[LolWagons]

I know, but you can't just ignore every tell. How do you propose we find scum if we ignore things like this? Meta?

Meta and intent
Town tells do not exist
Scum tells are overused

Hm. Okay. But my reasons for thinking GG is town

is

intent-based.

Lolwagons - I didn't understand why you would intervene like that on behalf of someone whose alignment you don't know. Why didn't you wait to see how I react to the trap? That's why I asked.

First of all, doubt its a trap. Garmr is more than likely town, I would say.

And it was a heads up to him because I did think he was town. Secondly, I don't get why you keep thinking I was "intervening". I did not ask you to not answer the question, I just said it was bad and useless. It had been different if I had stepped in and said "Peabody, you don't have to answer that" or "Don't answer that, its stupid". My thoughts were directed only to Garmr. In a way, I suppose I gave you an excuse not to answer at that point, but I feel like its fairly common knowledge that is a bad question (ive seen it both asked and shot down once or twice in games) that you could have easily gotten away with saying the same thing, so that doesn't really matter. Lastly, hardly any discussion is bad, but that would have turned into bad discussion and a distraction. Since you said it was a "trap" you are implying it was designed for you to fail regardless, so how you react to it would have all been useless anyway, because the initial premise of the question was bad. We don't really have time for bad discussion at this point.

[LolWagons]

Although ironically what we garnered from this was rather good. I thought you were pushing on me based on the fact that YOU believed the question to be important, not that you believed your reaction to be important. Which is why I was initially going to push on you for what would have been blatant hypocrisy (basically, "I think this question is good so I don't want to answer it and I'm shifting the blame to lolwagons so I have an excuse not to answer it) but that wasn't the case.

I both see and like your thought process on why you were pushing me for it now, but I think you're using the word intervening a little to loosely. I didn't jump to your defense like I think you think I did. At least, not intentionally.

[LolWagons]

"Seemed really fake" and "Were really bad" are very different.

I was thinking the first initially but the emotional appeal led to me thinking the latter.

And now we are back to "I let an emotional appeal that felt genuine override shitty scumhunting"

I'm all for gut reads but I don't think they should override actual observations.

[LolWagons]

Okay so GG I'd like to keep around. Upon reread I liked Kaze a bit more but mainly due to what has transpired between Peabody and I today I'd like to keep him around for as well.

You'd have a hard time telling me that one of Emp/CDB wasn't scum at this point but youd have a hard time convincing me both were. Emp would have came up with something better than "lol he makes me feel warm inside with that apology" if he were really defending a buddy.

Waiting on Brian's post but nothing has changed there. I think that just leaves Plum, who I can't really read for the life of me.

Content with Brian lynch, but if he says something that gives me a town boner for him and we can get enough traction I'd like the taste of Emp/ CDB blood just as much.

[LolWagons]

God dammit I fucking hate that I'm literally sitting right next to one of my scum reads on a claimed miller wagon though. That's like a giant red flag right up my ass. This fucking game.

I might do one more sweep of the thread tonight after I mall it up. Sorry for the back to back posting.

[LolWagons]

unvote

before I go.

We don't want any...

lolwagons

While Im gone. Ill be back in a few hours, people really need to start saying who they want to lynch. My preference right now is (CDB->Emp->Brian) but that Brian read could easily move up depending on what he cooks up tonight.

[LolWagons]

Except for (I believe, this is from memory) maybe #783 he hasn't really done much of anything besides defend himself and use weaker logic to determine town reads (NS). then sheep a townread everyone else has (ffer). Also been parked on the miller claim a while but I can't really talk there can I?

He was much better for the first half of the game and I understand being busy but what he has put forth hasn't been convincing at all. Speaking of which,

Vote CDB

[LolWagons]

If people are actually willing to vote him I might put forward a case on lunch tomorrow (Ill check tomorrow morning before work to see if theres interest and if so I will do my best to phone post) otherwise I guess Ill park it back on Brian, who isnt really a bad lynch, just not who I necessarily think is most likely to be scum.

[LolWagons]

Im not as for sure on empire as I am CDB, albeit marginally.

Empire's lynch would probably give us some nommy association tells which is what I thrive on, so I'm up for either. Once again, brians lynch because he was the center of attention for a long while but Im not as for sure we will see him flip red.

Whatever gets a wagon going on who I think is scum, at this point.

[LolWagons]

If Garmr SK and Spy joined this wagon well Id be the happiest slaxx in the whole world

[LolWagons]

fuckin a im goin to sleep

unvote, vote empire

[LolWagons]

10 hours, we need a consensus...and preferably a

votecount

whenever mod has time

I will later if nothing else

[LolWagons]

Brian- the Empire wagon is more likely to take off...vote it.
Peabody- CDB isnt gonna happen today buddy, sorry. Pick a bigger wagon.
Garmr- Same to you.
GG- As ffer said this is more of SK town play, you should check up his games. Also like ffer, your case has given me pause, probably to the point where Id be saying garmr was more town than SK now, but that wagon is very unlikely to happen. Choose a bigger wagon.

NS, if youre reading this, even just from your phone, pick a bigger wagon.

The fact that Brian didn't vote Empire even though he easily could have because he had listed him as scum reads town to me...if you are the leading wagon with less than a day left and have your counterwagon as a scum read...as scum... it would be practically instinctive to vote it. Instead he kept it on sleepy. I like that, shows self preservation isnt the first thing on his mine. either that or they're buddies. Either way we strike that beautiful red gold (isnt that ketchup).

guys, its getting a little too close now >_>

[LolWagons]

Im done in an hour guys. I'll put him at L-1 if nothing comes of it before.

[LolWagons]

?

[LolWagons]

Might as well park your vote

[LolWagons]

I'm gonna pretend I know what you're up to

[LolWagons]

*crunch*

[LolWagons]

Also ffery, do you really think an Empire lynch can still happen?

if youd get ur fukkin ass on it it would

[LolWagons]

Brian - The idea that you didn't understand what I was getting at - that lurking close to deadline, especially when there's lack of consensus and drive in the Town,

especially

when you're the potential lynch, is specifically scummy, and that, moreover, only Garmr's lurking was nearly as egregious as yours in regards to prod dodging and/or minimal posting like a champ as deadline approached.

I'm not sure what to make of Brian's latest posting, to be honest. I don't feel that the SK vote was particularly indicative; optimal play for Town or scum is likely to be voting Empire as of his big post o' reads; sorting it out either way is a barrel of WIFOM.

Whats your read on empire

[LolWagons]

but baby, to me, you count for three

sigh

I hope garmr and peabawdy get here soon

[LolWagons]

i understand, im gonna shower then sleep. wont be up before night.

Night guys, see ya in a few days, assumably.

Is someone up to hammer who isnt on the wagon?

[LolWagons]

Good luck town, thanks for making my first gme back a fun one :>