Mini 1501: We're On A Boat! (END?! results inside)

[pitoli]

Mine, thank you.

[Plum]

Plum has a booboo cuz I don't townread him apparently Funny how you would say I'm appeasing when that's the exact thing I didn't do with you.

No, try again.

Is anyone even voting him currently that he's still inundated with minutinae of defense and clearing up stuff?

It's the second time I see you mention that, as you already used it against me.
What is your problem with minutinae? Why is it scummy to approach the game in such a way? You realize we're talking playstyle here, right?

My problem was that he was focusing entirely on defense and responses instead of proactive scumhunting and related activities at a time when he was under little enough pressure that I would have expected he had enough time/resources to do so. I felt that the things he was responding to were trivial enough to question why we were seeing almost only defense-response from him at all.

[fferyllt]

ffery, I'm skimming through Peabody's meta that you posted and I find his catch-up here to be similar to the one in Mini 1480 with the major difference only being that the catch-up here is spread out over several posts rather than all clumped together in one. In the Space Station scum game, there isn't a whole lot to his first catch up (#208) - just a couple of short snippets regarding events along with a bullshit reads list though the primary focus is his interaction with one player. The only other catch-up he has is a readymade scum case on CooLDoG (#497). The impression I'm getting is that he's just not anywhere near as thorough in his approach as scum and I think that's kind of a far cry from what he's doing here. Will read it in more detail tomorrow though as I'm heading to bed right now.

I agree about the bullshit reads list and felt it was a signpost pointing in the not-scum direction. Other stuff, not quite so much. I'm going to need to consume considerably more coffee before I write up an analysis. And the analysis is going to boil down to "this is kinda weak to call a model".

Gutwise, I'm pretty uneasy, though.

It's annoying that replacements have churned up some of my reads, but it is what it is.

[Peabody]

I didn't think your vote was bad. I was just making a point. I don't understand why Aero got the flak instead of anyone else.

If you didn't think my vote was bad, why did you single it out? Who should have gotten flak instead?

Why do you have a town read on Plum?

My point was I didn't understand why there was a jump on Aero on the first place. It was a fast wagon which doesn't look right. The reason I pointed out your policy lynch vote was to contrast it with Aero's vote.

My town read on Plum is based on this post. The post is insightful. The admission that she'd be surprised with a Spy/Brian scumteam looks town. The wording just gives a town aura in my gut. There have been multiple posts like this by Plum that makes me like her as town.

Grimgroove is definitely town. His assertion he will eat paper if I'm scum assures me of this. As I reviewed his iso, I wanted to lynch him, but no. Scum wouldn't say this.

Plum - Why does it matter if my town reads match the reads of others? We all saw the same things.

I know my play is lackluster so far, but I'm just not feeling this game like I have others.

Notscience is not looking good. His reads post is lacking. Spyrex was scum because he called notscience town? Meh. He has no reads on my slot, but he acts as if an accusation he is unreadable is making my slot scum. Empire is 'leaning' scum because he hated the read on him? He does have a better accusation against Plum who doesn't post a case on to back up his vote. Why did he not vote Plum instead of Spyrex who he has less against? His confident play like I'm 'obvtown' or his "Sup, Scum" in the neighborhood quicktopic doesn't read right to me. However, he does seem to be mirroring pretty exactly a game I was in with him where he attempted to call out scum #1 and #2. Because he's familiar with his meta, this doesn't sit right with me. It's too exact.

If Brian is scum, I don't see CDB as scum based on early interactions and casting doubt on the miller claim. I definitely can see as scum if Brian is town. As was mentioned before, a miller claim is easy bait for scum to latch onto, and I think CDB's fixation on Brian's claim is consistent with scum trying to get him lynched.

CDB - Can you reexplain why you changed your town read here on my slot to a possible scum read? You said Kaze looked town based on his Maestro vote, and his unvote changed your mind. But I don't understand this. He still held a Maestro vote for a long time. Your switch in attitude looks like you're opening yourself up for a possible mislynch.

Smudger (LolWagons) pings me as scum as well. His vote on Aeronaut is a sheep. He casts suspicion on notscience and CDB really early, and these are passive-aggressive attacks. Like he's testing the waters.

His vote on Maestro is bad, considering he casts suspicion on NS in the same post and mentions he is uncomfortable with Aeronaut's play a little earlier than that. This is all inconsistant with his zero top reads at the moment that he says later.

vote Lolwagons

@LolWagons - I still want you to tell me why you felt the need to tell Garmr that his question about my read on my predecessor's slot is unecessary instead of letting me answer. And what happened to your early reads in this post

[Grimgroove]

As I reviewed his iso, I wanted to lynch him,

Why?

If it helps, I withdraw my assertion that I will eat paper. This wasn't meant to have any effect on the game (if I recall correctly these things are even against the rules, real-life wagers and stuff like that).

There is no way I will be eating any paper.

[Peabody]

As I reviewed his iso, I wanted to lynch him,

Why?

If it helps, I withdraw my assertion that I will eat paper. This wasn't meant to have any effect on the game (if I recall correctly these things are even against the rules, real-life wagers and stuff like that).

There is no way I will be eating any paper.

It was mainly just the way you were posting. Like, it didn't look like your normal method, but now I realize you weren't in your right mind. Also, YYR didn't look exactly townie.

That's okay, I won't make you eat paper. It was just funny, but it really did tell me your alignment.

[SleepyKrew]

Okay quick look at his ISO (lol) and yeah you're right. Didn't think about it that way. Carry on.

*sigh*
Maybe read his ISO before critisizing people who voted him?

This post exemplifies what I think of SleepyKrew's entrance: he critisizes, questions everything, but what does he do? Is there any factual backing to his criticism? And when questioned himself always chooses for the "attack is the best defense"-adagio. He never allows the discussion to revolve around his behavior. He's busy kicking the sand under his feet, all around him, until we can't see him anymore.

What the hell is that first line
That is bullshit condescending "advice" because you're pretending all the Maestro votes were as thought out as ffery's when clearly they weren't. Yeah my criticism of her vote was bad, that's why I dropped it. Do you think my criticism of the other Maestro votes was bad too? How come I didn't drop that?
Please show me multiple examples of me being questioned and replying as you described
How am I stopping discussion about myself? Examples?

[SleepyKrew]

Grimgroove is definitely town. His assertion he will eat paper if I'm scum assures me of this. As I reviewed his iso, I wanted to lynch him, but no. Scum wouldn't say this.

What the hellllll
Do you really think
No scum ever has been this "sure"of a read
And especially while high

[Grimgroove]

Okay quick look at his ISO (lol) and yeah you're right. Didn't think about it that way. Carry on.

*sigh*
Maybe read his ISO before critisizing people who voted him?

This post exemplifies what I think of SleepyKrew's entrance: he critisizes, questions everything, but what does he do? Is there any factual backing to his criticism? And when questioned himself always chooses for the "attack is the best defense"-adagio. He never allows the discussion to revolve around his behavior. He's busy kicking the sand under his feet, all around him, until we can't see him anymore.

What the hell is that first line
That is bullshit condescending "advice" because you're pretending all the Maestro votes were as thought out as ffery's when clearly they weren't. Yeah my criticism of her vote was bad, that's why I dropped it. Do you think my criticism of the other Maestro votes was bad too? How come I didn't drop that?
Please show me multiple examples of me being questioned and replying as you described
How am I stopping discussion about myself? Examples?

Yes, your criticism of the other Maestro votes was bad too, as they were based on the same posts you find in that eye-opening ISO.
It's not bullshit condescending advice. It's me calling you scum for not having even checked what MAestro had said but instead decided to go around showing everyone how "critical" you are. Always there with the "why's" but you haven't even bothered figuring out the "what's". Because you don't need to. you know what's what because you're scum.

And it's a thing that's difficult to get through examples. People should do as I did (and as notscience is doing) and simply re-read the topic. Somehow it gives you a certain perspective and a certain feel of things. I'm quite positive everyone re-reading the thread will end up voting you.

Too bad there's only a day left, guess your free lynch is served and it's called "Brian à la façon du Scum".

[SleepyKrew]

Yes, your criticism of the other Maestro votes was bad too, as they were based on the same posts you find in that eye-opening ISO.

No they weren't
They were lolpressure look at us we're useful
Clearly not the same as ffery's

And it's a thing that's difficult to get through examples. People should do as I did (and as notscience is doing) and simply re-read the topic. Somehow it gives you a certain perspective and a certain feel of things. I'm quite positive everyone re-reading the thread will end up voting you.

Oh no proof okay then

[Peabody]

Grimgroove is definitely town. His assertion he will eat paper if I'm scum assures me of this. As I reviewed his iso, I wanted to lynch him, but no. Scum wouldn't say this.

What the hellllll
Do you really think
No scum ever has been this "sure"of a read
And especially while high

I imagine this tactic has been used before by scum, but I'm interpreting this as a town move. And what do you think of his push on a slot almost everyone has labeled town? Doesn't sound very opportunistic.

[LolWagons]

Peabody, that reads list has hardly changed besides Spyrex and I explained that. All my town reads besides plum are the same. Also, I didn't stop you from answering that question, you elected not to. I pointed out it was useless and bad, I did not proactively discourage you from answering it. But it really is useless.

[SleepyKrew]

NOT ALL SCUM PLAY THE EXACT SAME WAY
SOMETIMES THEY DO THINGS THAT "scum wouldn't do"

[LolWagons]

Sorry just realized you might have im on my phone. Regardless I didn't tell you not to answer.

[Grimgroove]

Yes, your criticism of the other Maestro votes was bad too, as they were based on the same posts you find in that eye-opening ISO.

No they weren't
They were lolpressure look at us we're useful
Clearly not the same as ffery's

And it's a thing that's difficult to get through examples. People should do as I did (and as notscience is doing) and simply re-read the topic. Somehow it gives you a certain perspective and a certain feel of things. I'm quite positive everyone re-reading the thread will end up voting you.

Oh no proof okay then

OMG U WIN

I'll just sit back and see how this Day plays out. I'm not in a position to change a course that's been taken during a period of 35 pages, and I don't feel like bothering right now anyway. Possibly toMorrow. No reason to believe both of us won't be there to see that happen.

For now I'm hoping the question marks I've raised around you will move other people to try and see what I see. It's not that difficult to see it, really. Sometimes it's better to let posts and iso's speak for themselves. Right now I see more merit in pointing people where to look.

Town just has to be able to do better than a policy lynch on a miller claim of someone who appears to be MiA after all this time. My hopes are vested on this idea.

[fferyllt]

Town just has to be able to do better than a policy lynch on a miller claim of someone who appears to be MiA after all this time. My hopes are vested on this idea.

Who else is in your lynch pool?

[SleepyKrew]

You know most of the votes on Brian aren't just for the Miller claim right

[Peabody]

Peabody, that reads list has hardly changed besides Spyrex and I explained that. All my town reads besides plum are the same. Also, I didn't stop you from answering that question, you elected not to. I pointed out it was useless and bad, I did not proactively discourage you from answering it. But it really is useless.

Your reads list is a lynch pool besides some town picked out from that. It's not as decisive as your earlier reads.

NOT ALL SCUM PLAY THE EXACT SAME WAY
SOMETIMES THEY DO THINGS THAT "scum wouldn't do"

I know, but you can't just ignore every tell. How do you propose we find scum if we ignore things like this? Meta?

[LolWagons]

I was eating my sushi thinking about this and realized if you didn't answer the question you're in big ducking trouble mister. I'll explain why after I get off work and go home and look.

And I told you guys id sift through the rest of the bills after work.

[LolWagons]

Nulls lol damn phone

[Peabody]

Slaxx - And why don't you want to lynch the neighbors? Is it mostly probability that convinces you they are both town?

The reason I didn't answer is that a question like that is a complete trap regardless of my alignment. How I read my own slot can be used against me.

[SleepyKrew]

I know, but you can't just ignore every tell. How do you propose we find scum if we ignore things like this? Meta?

Meta and intent
Town tells do not exist
Scum tells are overused

[LolWagons]

Ok so now I just have to ask why you are so concerned about that question when you feel the exact same way as I do about it.

And I already said that the reactions from both sides read more as genuine paranoid town. Also a year ago when I played town neighbors seemed to be way more common. Keeping them around generated a bit more info too, but that's a bonus, not a reason.

[Peabody]

I know, but you can't just ignore every tell. How do you propose we find scum if we ignore things like this? Meta?

Meta and intent
Town tells do not exist
Scum tells are overused

Hm. Okay. But my reasons for thinking GG is town

is

intent-based.

Lolwagons - I didn't understand why you would intervene like that on behalf of someone whose alignment you don't know. Why didn't you wait to see how I react to the trap? That's why I asked.

[SleepyKrew]

Hm. Okay. But my reasons for thinking GG is town is intent-based.

Okay not arguing with that