Mini 1501: We're On A Boat! (END?! results inside)


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Post Post #850 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:32 pm

Post by LolWagons »

In post 707, ChannelDelibird wrote:
In post 700, LolWagons wrote:CDB that read might have held up on like page 8, but so much has happened since then its kind of weird to let something like that sway your opinion that much.
And if I thought things that happened before made a significant contribution to my notscience read, I would have mentioned it. I don't think it's at all weird to spot little things at any point in the game that click something in your head. It's absolutely normal.
Thing is, you did. you already had NS in a tentative townpile without explanation (I ctrl fed NS and notscience in your iso and read some posts and the surrounding context, correct me if im wrong) so it seemed redundant to reapply that read to him. It also seems like, as you said, just having reads for the sake of reads. I hate using this word because I don't fucking like it, but the whole process doesn't feel organic. I feel like there would be way more to derive from the Spy/ NS argument than that little comment and had you done that to SUPPLEMENT existing logic on that NS town read I would have been okay with it.

Plum, what happened to you Kaze read in between your initial vote and the Peabody vote? Also what your current read on CDB and why?
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Post Post #851 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:59 pm

Post by SpyreX »

ffery wrote:What is your answer to this question?
Probably Empire. Maaaybe CTD but there's enough good vibes there and I can't tell if its spat spillover.
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I always lynch scum... sometimes they're just not mafia. :P

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Post Post #852 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:27 pm

Post by Plum »

In post 850, LolWagons wrote:Plum, what happened to you Kaze read in between your initial vote and the Peabody vote? Also what your current read on CDB and why?
I still generally felt like Kaze was scummy. SpyreX's vote on him - and his case, which to me didn't feel more Townish to me than the rest of his play - made me want to hold back from rehashing it for the time being, and the reads of players like fferylt and Empire - who took Kaze's play as abrasive and/or chaotic in a way less likely to come from scum - made me doubt my own take on it (that Kaze was opportunistic-scummy &c.) somewhat.
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Post Post #853 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:00 pm

Post by Empire »

In post 665, fferyllt wrote:I wasn't talking about lack of conclusions, I was talking about not initiating many interactions. I went back to look in case my impression was wrong, but most of your posts interacting with other players were initiated by the other players. Including this interaction.

In fact, the post that I snipped this bit from was the only one that had any clear and obvious examples of you picking out something another player said and questioning them about it rather than responding to something that the player said either to or about you. And that post was made after I commented on the lack, though apparently I didn't explain myself well.
Oh so that's what you meant by observational...I just thought that bled into the whole reactive criticism. And yeah, it's fair to say that I haven't been a driving force in this game like I usually am but most of that is due to a sheer lack of motivation. I had a good town bloc forming and started to hone in on some suspects but it's hard to do that when they're not even there for me to sort out. So while it's fair to say that I haven't taken the initiative, that just kind of ignores the context of what I'm actually trying to do. (Hopefully this makes sense, I'm incredibly tired right now.)
In post 685, ChannelDelibird wrote:Depends whether or not it was premeditated - I dunno if the scum got a chance to discuss it among themselves before gamestart. But, yes, I do think it's a thing.
Yeah but do you really think Brian's the kind of player to take the initiative / matters into his own hands on a risky gambit like that? Dude's a fairly new player so I doubt he'd just go off and fakeclaim miller as scum without consulting his buddies. If they didn't show up, I doubt he'd have done it. So basically, what I'm trying to say is I think your idea
sounds
good as a matter of general principle but I think ignores a lot of the particulars.

---

I was kinda getting the urge to vote CDB because a lot of his reasoning for townreading / suspecting notscience and Peabody in particular seemed really fake but the self deprecation bits in posts like #689 sound genuine and I'm fairly sure I've seen him be apathetic like this as town before but I'd need to double check (also minor thing, but I liked that he felt the need to continue posting during his sleeping hours as I don't really think he'd give anywhere near as much of a shit as scum).

Continuing the catch-up...
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Post Post #854 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:05 pm

Post by Empire »

Jesus christ, I just read through Grimgroove's posting on page 29 and what the actual fuck did I just read?
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Post Post #855 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:07 pm

Post by LolWagons »

Insomnia is a bitch

So, Empire, we are taking emotional appeals over shitty scumhunting as evidence now? I don't really know who you are but I picked up from context clues people expected you to be wiser than that.
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Post Post #856 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:10 pm

Post by Empire »

Sometimes people just don't play as well as you'd expect them to (I'm probably biased here because I feel like I've seen sucking here too but whatever). That doesn't make them scum.
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Post Post #857 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:13 pm

Post by SleepyKrew »

In post 853, Empire wrote:I had a good town bloc forming and started to hone in on some suspects but it's hard to do that when they're not even there for me to sort out.
YYR was in your scumlist, so that's excused
But suspect
S
?
Only other person that hasn't been here is Kazeslot
You had Kaze as town
So when did you try to hone in on him?
To be clear: quack
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Post Post #858 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:14 pm

Post by LolWagons »

"Seemed really fake" and "Were really bad" are very different.
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Post Post #859 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:17 pm

Post by Empire »

In post 857, SleepyKrew wrote:
In post 853, Empire wrote:I had a good town bloc forming and started to hone in on some suspects but it's hard to do that when they're not even there for me to sort out.
YYR was in your scumlist, so that's excused
But suspect
S
?
Only other person that hasn't been here is Kazeslot
You had Kaze as town
So when did you try to hone in on him?
I'm not talking about replacements only, you know (it's been a while, but I was thinking of YYR / CDB / Brian when I posted way back when...the latter two definitely felt like they haven't been around much at any rate).
In post 858, LolWagons wrote:"Seemed really fake" and "Were really bad" are very different.
I was thinking the first initially but the emotional appeal led to me thinking the latter.
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Post Post #860 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:21 pm

Post by LolWagons »

I'll sleep on that logic and see how i feel tomorrow.

Expect a post and a new vote from me 16 hours or so from now, possibly twelve if i post on lunch from my phone. We really need to start getting organized, people.
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Post Post #861 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:48 pm

Post by Empire »

ffery, I'm skimming through Peabody's meta that you posted and I find his catch-up here to be similar to the one in Mini 1480 with the major difference only being that the catch-up here is spread out over several posts rather than all clumped together in one. In the Space Station scum game, there isn't a whole lot to his first catch up (#208) - just a couple of short snippets regarding events along with a bullshit reads list though the primary focus is his interaction with one player. The only other catch-up he has is a readymade scum case on CooLDoG (#497). The impression I'm getting is that he's just not anywhere near as thorough in his approach as scum and I think that's kind of a far cry from what he's doing here. Will read it in more detail tomorrow though as I'm heading to bed right now.
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Post Post #862 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:51 pm

Post by SleepyKrew »

Don't forget to look for what I asked for too
Which I will also do
To be clear: quack
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Post Post #863 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:40 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 842, fferyllt wrote:grimgroove, your read of me is so different in this game from our one prior. I'd expect a course correction of sorts, but 1) my play in this game is quite different and 2) it's a really huge course correction.
I don't judge based on meta. You act like town here and that's all that I manage to take into account.
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Post Post #864 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:42 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 837, SleepyKrew wrote: You're addressing the wrong part. Do you think checking the wiki is something specifically
CTD
hasn't doesn't wouldn't do as scum?

Yes this one vote on me with no support from anyone else makes me really nervous
I'm def not questioning townreads that I think have been explained with questionable reasons
That's too high level for me
I don't know who CTD specifically is, but I don't see why anyone would check a wiki-page without being able to expect to find something like a contradiction. Scum would not expect to find anything, so would not go looking. CTD went looking so isn't scum. It's really not that difficult and has got nothing to do with the person CTD.

Not my vote on you is maknig you nervous, it's the amount of townreads going on inhere. You try to discredit them in hopes of opening up the lynchpool, keeping your options to mislynch open. Is that too high-level thinking for you?
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Post Post #865 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:48 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

And about my style being obnoxious I only have one thing to say: fuck you.

I'll approach this game as I damn well please. You think it's scummy? Vote me for it. You think it's obnoxious: shut the fuck up and put yourself in my shoes.

You didn't have opinions after ten pages? You were in a vacuum of thoughts, simply thrudging along until you reached page 20?

Of course I have opinions and ideas after reading through 10 pages, so did all of you. And I see no reason at all why opinions obtained after 10 pages are worth less. I'm taking the same course you all did and I'm jotting down the thoughts that go with it.

So yes CTD, you can swallow your advice, get off your high-horse and take my reads seriously. Actually READ what I have to say about people, instead of just dismissing everything just because it somehow doesn't fit your way of "catching up". I cannot do one big read-through and summarize conclusions. It is tedious and boring. Taking this thing page by page and commenting on it in such a way feels much more participatory for me.

If I want to read 35 pafges and write a summary about it I'll go back to highschool and ask for a reading assignment.

Plum has a booboo cuz I don't townread him apparently :( Funny how you would say I'm appeasing when that's the exact thing I didn't do with you.
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Post Post #866 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:07 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 839, fferyllt wrote:
In post 830, Grimgroove wrote:While fferyllt made a good point about a newer player not enetering a game with a gambit like that, I suddenly wonder: Is he a newer player?
I asked Brian about his mafia experience in the first game I played with him. His answer is here.
That's reassuring enough.
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Post Post #867 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:12 pm

Post by fferyllt »

FYI he was scum in that game.
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.

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Post Post #868 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:27 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 840, CrashTextDummie wrote:
A single post by Kaze was "game-changing" enough for you to reverse an "obvscum" read. 4 pages later, you're confident enough to narrow the scum down to 4 people. I'm finding it very hard to take your reads seriously.
Single posts can be game-changers, yes. Remember that my obvscum-read on Kaze came into existence under circumstances of overestimation of my skills. What Kaze has shown on the top of page 5 completely conflicted with what I thought of him, and was a game-changer. Sorry to hear you don't like it. And even more sorry to hear your reads apparently don't change. Sounds like I'm in a pickle!
In post 830, Grimgroove wrote:Suddenly, I'm starting to wonder about Brian Skies.
You were "almost sold" by his ISO #3 and Fferyllt doubting whether a new player would make such a gambit "sealed the deal". You are now questioning whether he's a new player, which I can see "unsealing the deal", but I don't see how it affects the basis of your alleged read. Please explain your thought process.
My thought process has already been clarified, but I'll humour you:
1. Brian Skies claims Miller : I'm not sure what to think.
2. Brian Skies explains why he claimes Miller: I see his point and thus an argument in favor of believing him.
3. fferyllt says the odds of a new player starting with a gambit like that are very low: I agree with this and thus secure my townread, without putting into question that Brian is indeed a newer player.

Some time passes.

I don't know why, I don't know how, but suddenly I am reminded of the game I linked you to earlier, where someone pretended to be a newbie, made an idiotic claim when he replaced into the game which was either A. a retarded scumclaim, B. an understandable mistake to make for a newbie. Given his newbishness and the general sense he was portraying, we went for option B and never questioned it. He won as scum, and admitted to having played the part of a stupid newbie in order to get out of that pickle.

This dark memory had a certain parallel, where someone being new was read as town, with a big part due to his newbishness. Hence my wonderment.
In post 735, Grimgroove wrote:To be honest I'm really not certain how to undertake this catch-up. I'm in it for fun and browsing through 25 pages and taking miticulous notes on everyone simply isn't going to happen. Normally I like to be precise in communication but it would be too tedious to cover all those pages in my usual style.
What about this game is giving you trouble exactly? This is not a particularly strenuous game to replace into, there's more than plenty of one- and two-line posts to balance out the modest walls.
1. I am not a machine.
2. I want to have fun. (an important rule in the game, if I recall correctly)
The manner in which you've elected to structure your analysis strikes me as dubious. You're moving through the game at a snail's pace, all the while insisting on a deadline extension. I get portioning a read-through upon replacing in, but not in a game of this size. Meticulously giving reads after having read 6 pages of a 30 page game is completely over the top. It screams "look at how comprehensive my thought process is!".
There is very little pro-town benefit to most of what you've contributed so far, because you've demonstrated twice now that even your most strongly worded reads are far from solid.
The only real benefit to your manner of posting is that it tends to garner town reads, providing strong scum motivation to do so. I've used similar tactics as scum in the past and it works remarkably well (and is easy to pull off to boot).

If you are town, you need to stop what you're doing, spend an hour and a half reading the full game and
then
give your reads.

I resent the first part of that which is bolded. My entrance was not up to certain standards, but what I offered was definitely pro-town. If not the reads, then at least the arguments I provided for them. Instead of putting over a blanket over them by this general criticism based on how YOU would play as scum, I would have appreciated a more detailed response that what it was I said.
And the second part you're not being very fair here. The Kaze-read should not be taken into account as you know full-well what the circumstances of that read were, and the doubts I had surrounding Brian never involved a sudden review, just an on-hold for reasons I believe are pretty understandable.

You've got your big head into a tunnel and I fear it's too big to get out of it again. I'll try to find some lubricant but no promises.
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Post Post #869 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:40 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 232, SleepyKrew wrote: Okay quick look at his ISO (lol) and yeah you're right. Didn't think about it that way. Carry on.
*sigh*
Maybe read his ISO before critisizing people who voted him?

This post exemplifies what I think of SleepyKrew's entrance: he critisizes, questions everything, but what does he do? Is there any factual backing to his criticism? And when questioned himself always chooses for the "attack is the best defense"-adagio. He never allows the discussion to revolve around his behavior. He's busy kicking the sand under his feet, all around him, until we can't see him anymore.
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Post Post #870 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:43 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 867, fferyllt wrote:FYI he was scum in that game.
Meaning he could have been lying about his newbishness there, as well as here?
Anyway, like has been said before, it will sort itself out. I think there's people who are scummy enough in order to warrant a normal lynch, instead of having to resort to policy-lynching a miller now. That stuff will sort itself out eventually.
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Post Post #871 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:01 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 263, Plum wrote:Is anyone even voting him currently that he's still inundated with minutinae of defense and clearing up stuff?
It's the second time I see you mention that, as you already used it against me.
What is your problem with minutinae? Why is it scummy to approach the game in such a way? You realize we're talking playstyle here, right?
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Post Post #872 (ISO) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:03 pm

Post by pitoli »

Time until deadline: (expired on 2013-10-17 00:00:00)
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Post Post #873 (ISO) » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:07 am

Post by Plum »

Screw this. Brian's not going to lurk through the end of the Day and live.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Brian Skies
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Post Post #874 (ISO) » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:10 am

Post by Grimgroove »

No need to make a compromise policy lynch sound like something you thought through.
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