Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Thor665]

Anyways sorry for showing up late everyone I have been really really busy,

And this is a scumtell...how again?
Because zakk's logic is bad, and now you're sheeping it, so I want to hear your reasoning.

It doesn't make sense to apologise giving your lifestory to explain why you didn't post earlier when you post on the first page and on the first rl day of the game.

He is apologising for nothing which makes no sense from town; hes scum who is nervous.

Or...and run with me on this one...
It's his first game after a 6 year hiatus and his last game ended with him voting himself and disappearing.
Maybe he's just amped up?

Because there is no reason for a scum to be any more or less nervous than a town in that particular situation.
What do you think of his interactions with Bastion on Page 2? Are you telling me that he is a nervous and Mr. Magoo-type scum player in that conversation and faking it all since he's so nervous as to do your other tell?
Also, a read on Bastion would be nice.

[N]

Vote Count 1.03

Tcold

(0)

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(3) Axxle, zakk, Tcold

toolenduso

(1) Slandaar

Sir Bastion

(2) ICEninja, Thor665

Slandaar

(0)

Thor665

(1) Maxous

Macros

(0)

Maxous

(1) Garmr

GuthrieGov

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

(0)

Axxle

(1) GuthrieGov

Not Voting:

toolenduso, Sir Bastion, Macros, Albert B. Rampage

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-10-23 18:36:35)

[Thor665]

I iz ninja.

[GuthrieGov]

Ok, after a quick re-read i'd be very happy with a Bastion wagon. I still can't get over the fact that he votes me for bussing. Makes no sense, and just seems like he is looking for an excuse to create a wagon on me.

[toolenduso]

Well my case for not knowing acronyms has been established. I actually signed up for a newbie game before but was rejected and told to sign up in the normal queue.

If anyone really has a concern with me apologizing for not posting right away, I'll explain that. I didn't remember games moving this quickly (had mostly played newbie games before), so felt like I was kind of late showing up because several people had already posted.

That being said, where the hell is Maxous? I asked you a question on the first page...

And is there any way of knowing exactly how many mafia we're dealing with? Because I've seen suspicious stuff from several people now.

Thor for being quite zealous to lynch. (could just be style)
Albert for contributing nothing. (also could just be style, but not a great one if that's the case)
Slandaar for latching onto the least scummy thing that's happened all game on p3 as evidence for a vote. (I'll admit I'm a little biased on it being the least scummy thing given that the vote was against me, but I really don't think me apologizing for being late says anything)

I'mma

FoS: Albert

out of those three because I don't understand a town's logic in avoiding conversation.

[Thor665]

And is there any way of knowing exactly how many mafia we're dealing with? Because I've seen suspicious stuff from several people now.

With 13 players it is probably 3 scum.
Some potential variation exists depending on town power, how many killing roles, and other mechanics.
But 3 is a safe presumption at this stage.

[toolenduso]

Sorry, I'll add Maxous to that list of suspicion for only posting three times on the first page, saying Axxl's post looked towny for reasons I can't discern (possibly protecting mafia partner) and then disappearing.

[Thor665]

I don't think that actually qualifies as scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: Slandaar

I haven't seen anything particularly scummy in this game, and several posts seemed relatively town, so by process of elimination, I've determined that Slandaar is likely scum.

[Thor665]

I don't hate that post.

@ABR - do you have a read on Bastion though?

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, I don't. I could be convinced of voting for him, but there are already many votes on that wagon.

[Thor665]

Two?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Given that you announced that you wanted him speedlynched, I'm reluctant to encourage that behavior, given the dream I had last night.

[Slandaar]

Or...and run with me on this one...

Ugh

It's his first game after a 6 year hiatus and his last game ended with him voting himself and disappearing.
Maybe he's just amped up?

Really?

Amped up is more excitement and ready to go type thing; that wasn't excitement it was more a betrayal of not wanting to be perceived of doing something wrong which is scummy because he had not done anything wrong if he were town he wouldn't feel he had done anything wrong and thus doesn't apologise for not posting.

Because there is no reason for a scum to be any more or less nervous than a town in that particular situation.

Nervous maybe the wrong word; he was worried of being perceived badly and yes there is reason for scum to be more likely to think like that.

What do you think of his interactions with Bastion on Page 2? Are you telling me that he is a nervous and Mr. Magoo-type scum player in that conversation and faking it all since he's so nervous as to do your other tell?
Also, a read on Bastion would be nice.

Overexplaining.

Undecided. I don't care for the bussing stuff.

Lets look into this post;

What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner.

OK? I don't see what this has to do with anything at all. This is technically true but it doesn't mean bussing doesn't happen.

So I think you'd have to see something pretty convincing at this stage in the game to think something is bussing. Otherwise, you could say any post of one person voting for another was bussing.

Uh nope you don't it happens all the time people can think someone is bussing at any point they like. The question is why they think that.

Unless I'm missing something. Why did you think it looked like bussing, outside of the fact that one voted for the other?

And so we get to the 'point'. Why did it look like bussing? That is literally all this post needed to be.

That is some serious overexplaining (to look town).

Then Bastion gives a fairly bland response and everything is dropped it seems.

[ICEninja]

I don't have QUITE as much time this morning to address everything that happened considering how quick this game has moved in a short time so I'll address each point briefly, as I see it. I'll comb through everything later to put a more cohesive case together on who I believe are the most likely scum(s).

assuming I dont?

As of post 16 I'm almost positive that a town player wouldn't have a scum read on both of them. DO YOU?

I nodded along with everything zakk said in post 43.

Garmr's response is mostly "lol that's funny!" which I don't like.

I have no idea what to think of Slar's first post, I'm going to chalk it up to satire regarding an earlier FOS.

Guthrie's post 54 is making me twitch a bit. I called him out in that post and he's giving me a town read for it. He also didn't touch on any parts of that post that were directed towards him. Feels like it could be a way to buddy me or something. I can't quite put my finger on it but it's tinging my gut scumdar. The rest of the post was good though.

Macros is making me twitch, too. I'm not quite sure how to feel about his recent posts. I'll need to see a legit case out of him.

For the record I find Thor's call for a speed lynch to be perfectly reasonable. I also think people calling him out on it is perfectly understandable, but I won't because I find it a town move. Thor seems to be trying pretty hard to control and direct town here, but IIRC he's a pretty aggressive player either way.

The game opened yesterday.

Bad excuse is bad. If we all used this then no progress would be made. There are TONS of things worth commenting on.

I iz ninja.

*Cough*

Ok, after a quick re-read i'd be very happy with a Bastion wagon. I still can't get over the fact that he votes me for bussing. Makes no sense, and just seems like he is looking for an excuse to create a wagon on me.

This is really ticking my gut scumdar, too. Something about "oh yeah you guys are right we should totally lynch this guy for something he did on page 1, after a quick re-read of course" makes me hesitate on my current vote.

At a quick thought I'm still fine with where my vote is, though. More analysis less stream of thought to come later.

[GuthrieGov]

IceNinja:

As of post 16 I'm almost positive that a town player wouldn't have a scum read on both of them.

This is exactly what went through my mind regarding Bastion's bussing theory. I even tought something along these lines: Axxl is scum with Bastion, and he is laying the field to point the ffigget at me at an eventual Axll scum flip somepoint in the game. But Ocaam's Razzor made me drop that idea (for the most part)

I agree heart and soul to this. Also, after reading your first post again, i dont see what you wanted me to adress in that post lol. The fact that you considered my town read on you a buddying attempt just makes me feel even more townie vibes from you. And on the bastion thing. You should notice that i stated a desire to wagon him(to get reactions/info), in place of lynching him(to see the mfker flip scum), which is reflected by the fact that i didn't move my vote.

[Thor665]

@Slaandar - everything you're calling 'overexplaining' I'm calling 'making sure he is understood and trying to get his point across'

Also, no, there is no reason for a scum to magically think showing up on Day 1 page 1 is suspect unless the player would also think that were suspect when they were town. All you are doing is pointing out that he is nervous and new and also explaining his thoughts, and then you're trying to act like that's a defensible reason to want to lynch him for, as far as I can tell, newb and town tells.
Let's not do that.

As far as your take on Tool's post, here's what I see you doing in order of your quotes;

1. Agreeing with him
2. Misunderstanding/repping him.
3. Complaining that he didn't ask the question succinctly...when he did, all he did was add in why he holds the belief he does.

Call him scummy for wanting to look town due to the crime of explaining himself more than you think he needs to, when you're doing a line by line breakdown of why his post is bad and scummy.

Justify this a bit, pl0x? I am not a fan.

[Thor665]

For the record I find Thor's call for a speed lynch to be perfectly reasonable. I also think people calling him out on it is perfectly understandable, but I won't because I find it a town move. Thor seems to be trying pretty hard to control and direct town here, but IIRC he's a pretty aggressive player either way.

You recall correctly.
I'd do this as town because I think it's pro-town, and I'd do it as scum because I'd do it as town.
It is a good newb barometer test though. So you can thank me for that

Guthrie is a reasonable suspicion.
I think you're writing Slandaar off too easily.
I don't get why you think Mac looks suspect, and look forward to seeing that expanded on as I currently have him playing in the town pool.

[Maxous]

GARMR

-I have a few questions for you buddy.

1)

while fueling the flames between the two wagons.

Can you elaborate on where and how?

2) What is the issue with me calling people town early in the game?

3)

and he votes still through I find him suspicious for taking so long to vote and the way his just listing people as town so early in the game.

I find those actions a combination of town and null tells.
What am I missing here, how are they advantageous to scum?

Did you see this?
If yes, why did you ignore it?

4)

Also your points on Tool are fluff lol the only one I could consider not fluff is the one about pretending to be clueless and that's not really to strong of a sign.

Why did you write this?
To these eyes this looks to be nothing but mudslinging at zakk who attacked you.

5) Between your vote on me and your last post there has been 50 posts. You have given zero other thoughts on other people's alignments. Why?

[GuthrieGov]

If we gonna start pointing fingers for lack of toughts, i'd like to point mine at Axxl, since he hasnt posted anything after his random vote.

[Maxous]

Good god my head is ul my ass at the minute

unvote

meant to vote for zakk, I'll just keep it off altogether, I cant seem to trust my brain to fingers communication at the minute.

This kind of thing is why I don't phone post lol.

That being said, where the hell is Maxous?

At work.

Regarding Axxle: It's more often town rather than scum that attack players for stuff such as 'tone' etc. of posts. (It's can be difficult to fake that argument as scum). Plus the post just feels town too.

zakk + Guthrie have become town reads.
Thor has won me over for sheer pro-town effort, particulary in #60
I still beleive Sir Bastion is town ftr.
I'm iffy about Tcold.

unvote, vote:Slandaar

I don't care for Slandaar only focusing on one player in 3 posts when there is enough other things to talk about in the game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Maxous, would you say that you have a gut scum read on Slaandaar?

[Maxous]

nope.

I suspect he is deliberately not commenting on multiple people and trying to get away with minimum scumhunting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think it goes deeper than that.

[Macros]

Alrighty, home from work and settled down with the laptop.

let start from the start, our first semi bandwagon looks like day one good morning random bs and jokery.
This is on ABR
The first two yes, fit this category, then theres Garmr's third vote which has got everyone in a tizzy. He claims ninja post (cross posting?) but look at the time stamps, two whole minutes. On one hand I wonder what took all of two minutes there, oh wait, no I don't. the cross posting and thus cross voting doesn't get me, what does tickle my ivories though is that Garmr "argh cross posting!! etc" but doesn't actually remove the vote.
The second vote he drops is in post 23. This one can't be called a cross post as there is no corrective action taken afterwards and there is a 4 minute delay between the post, he votes Maxous stating that

I'm more suspicious of Maxous who hasn't laid down a vote and is content on just calling people towny while fueling the flames between the two wagons.

if you note, post 22 is Maxous voting

If his reason for voting Maxous was no vote down, and even if it was a cross post, why no unvote or even acknowledgement of the vote in subsequent posts? As Maxous himself notes in post 93, why nothing further on the vote, either a removal in line with your vote logic or a further push on it. the interlude has been fluff posts.

Eyes on Garmr for this post (he could well garner my vote but there's more reading to be done) , going back in to go over sir bastions, thors and guthries stuff , partly because theres a lot of it and partly because on my read through they caught my eye.


A