Mini 408 - EXiLE Mafia, MOD ABANDONED

[Romanus]

Skruffs and JDodge, just stop fighting, it is clear that you both are pro-town and are arguing about something you just won't agree on.

I think Cheesefan should die today and that we should put up the biggest lurkers for nomination for tomorrow. Or at least, that is my suggestion, not completely sold on it myself just yet.

As far as Jack goes, if Cheesefan is lynched, his alignment is going to help make up my mind about Jack. As of now, I do not think Jack is scum.

[Skruffs]

I'm not arguing to prove I'm pro-town. And I'm not saying JDodge is not pro-town.

I am fighting with everyone who thinks, right now, that we should quietly lynch and go to sleep and in the morning, what, quietly lynch again and go to sleep, etc
Not talking about your nominations is the equivalent of random nominations.
I am not going to nominate lurkers, myself, though that theory would generally be a good one -

I'm going to go all fascist

and say we should nominate people who are refusing to cooperate with everyone else. Not only does it put a bigger target on all fo the cooperators backs - because mafia know that if they keep uncooperative townies around they'll have more control over the game - btu it also makes it less possible to get people to slip up in why they want to nominate people, etc.

[JDodge]

Vote: Skruffs

.

That is the most retarded plan I have ever heard. Splitting the game into warring factions is even more terrible than telling the mafia our plans beforehand.

[Skruffs]

Every single post I've made, you've misinterpreted, misconstrued, and ignored.
I'm trying to get everyone to AGREE to help each other and you think that means I'm

splitting us up

??? How???

Lemme tell you what it looks like, to me, will happen -
out of everyone in this game, a few people will vote for maz, a few people will vote for dean, a few will vote for RR, a few will vote for jack, and the romanus will probably get killed, which a few people will also be voting for. Mafia will be free to peg three votes each on whoever they want - iof they are smart, they will nominate a scummy-acting townie and a very pro-town acting townie, and tommorrow it won't matter who we lynch, they'll still win.

Do you really think that the town is going to

unanimously

decide to nominate scum withOUT talking about it?

DO YOU, REALLY???

[JDodge]

Every single post I've made, you've misinterpreted, misconstrued, and ignored.
I'm trying to get everyone to AGREE to help each other and you think that means I'm

splitting us up

??? How???

By deciding to not look for scummy people, but for people who disagree with you.

Lemme tell you what it looks like, to me, will happen -
out of everyone in this game, a few people will vote for maz, a few people will vote for dean, a few will vote for RR, a few will vote for jack, and the romanus will probably get killed, which a few people will also be voting for. Mafia will be free to peg three votes each on whoever they want - iof they are smart, they will nominate a scummy-acting townie and a very pro-town acting townie, and tommorrow it won't matter who we lynch, they'll still win.

But they won't know who's going for who. There is a better chance of mafia screwing up nominations if they're set in stone beforehand.

Do you really think that the town is going to

unanimously

decide to nominate scum withOUT talking about it?

DO YOU, REALLY???

Over-reacting much?

I never said that I thought we would all unanimously decide to nominate scum.

[Romanus]

ummmm, if you guys would shut up about how we should talk about scum and actually talk about who is scum, rather than voting for someone simply for disagree on this stupid shit, then maybe, just maybe the scum would have something to fear.

How about this, I am going to vote/nominate the next idiot who persists in arguing about how we are going to play this game instead of actually playing it.

You don't like that, I don't care. Let's talk about who should die, who we don't like and discuss how we are going to get them after we talk about who it should be.

I still want cheesefan to die today and am not entirely sure who should be on the block tomorrow, though I'm sure the next post is going to make up my mind for me.

[Maz Medias]

Not talking about your nominations is the equivalent of random nominations.

This is some of the most flagrant bullshit ever spoke in a mafia game.

Vote: Skruffs

[JDodge]

ummmm, if you guys would shut up about how we should talk about scum and actually talk about who is scum, rather than voting for someone simply for disagree on this stupid shit, then maybe, just maybe the scum would have something to fear.

Yes! Let's not talk about something actually relevant that is creating discussion that will help us figure out who is scummy and who isn't, let's pull arguements out of thin air!

Almost all we have to go on is nominations and the discussion that has stemmed from them; anything else is based on lurking, which in and of itself is not really that incriminating.

[Romanus]

Creating discussion, for the simple sake a creating discussion is not good.

Let's look at the discussion that has been going on. We've got two townies IMHO, that are now at each other's throats and voting and trying to kill each other over opinions about how to play the game and how stupid one thinks the other is rather than actually looking to see who might actually be scum. Opinions about how to play the game are never scummy or townie, they are just opinions, and usually it is the scum that are going to take the obviously townie positions and just love to see townies duke it out over methodology rather than how someone is actually playing. At least, when I am scum, I love to see these types of discussions. Since I am not scum, I hate seeing this. And JDodge, your voting for Skruffs over this only further illustrates my point. You are not voting him for being scummy, but rather for being stupid. Stupidity is not scummy. It may not help the town, but it is not a determination that someone is scummy.

Then we also have Maz voting for Skruffs for stupidity as well.

Guys, the scum are loving this, and it gives us no, absolutely zero, information to base things for tonight or tomorrow. The built in excuse is that "Hey, I killed our cop because he was taking an obviously anti-town argument about playing this game and was being stupid about it. He deserved to die."

The scum win games because of this all the time. So, we either let it win the scum the game again or knock it off.

The choice is yours. I will not say another word about it.

[Skruffs]

Romanus - Did I vote for JDodge? Did I say he should be lynched? Did I say he was stupid? Go on and vote me if you want, or nominate me tonight, or whatever. I've realized there's only one way for the town to do this with any amount of control and that's by workign TOGETHER.

JDodge - saying that scum won't be able to screw with nominations because "they won't know who's going for who." Is

flawed

, because scum don't have to KNOW who's going for who. And

neither will we

, because we will all be randomly nominating whoever we want. So their three votes (added on to any of the townies) will get anyone they want nominated. Basically advocating a secret nomination insures that scum doesn't HAVE to everyone else is nominating, because they can nominate anyone they want, enmasse, and then lie about it the next day.

*Maz* understands this, that's why he's calling it *bullshit*.

Everyone -

If it's bullshit to work together to get a minority nominated when that's the ONLY WAY we can get that minority nominated, than workign as a ateam -

even at the risk of screwing up

- is the only real choice we have.

JDodge - if you are not going to reveal your nominations tonight, than you can't talk about who you think is suspicious, either, can you? Because then the mafia might deduct who you are nominating. And so on from there, etc. Which is ALSO a very easily claim for scum to hide behind, too, to keep from being exposed.

[JDodge]

JDodge - saying that scum won't be able to screw with nominations because "they won't know who's going for who." Is

flawed

, because scum don't have to KNOW who's going for who. And

neither will we

, because we will all be randomly nominating whoever we want. So their three votes (added on to any of the townies) will get anyone they want nominated. Basically advocating a secret nomination insures that scum doesn't HAVE to everyone else is nominating, because they can nominate anyone they want, enmasse, and then lie about it the next day.

*Maz* understands this, that's why he's calling it *bullshit*.

But you *don't* because he was calling what you said *bullshit*.

[Maz Medias]

As far as Jack goes, if Cheesefan is lynched, his alignment is going to help make up my mind about Jack. As of now, I do not think Jack is scum.

I want to point out that, upon a second reading, this statement strikes me strangely. It seems a little too open-ended, perhaps; tomorrow, it could be cited as "Since cheesefan was [town/scum], Jack's interactions with him are scummy!".

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Sorry that this happens when I just got back to the game, but I'm on vacation for the next eight days.

I would like to

proxy my vote to Maz Medias

if that's ok with the mod.

I will pm the mod with my nominations should the day end.

Good luck and see you all in a week.

[Raging Rabbit]

I seem to recall you saying that your case on me is something more than "something's ROTTEN in the kingdom of RR". Well?

I'm fairly sure you're literate. It's my policy not to indulge laziness; reread the fucking thread.

I don't recall any fucking case whatsoever, fucking quote.

Other than that, still fucking busy atm. No time to even fucking read the thread. sorry.

[Skruffs]

Cheesefan is probably going to nominate:

Romanus for having an ability.
RR for acting scummy.

Dean is going to nominate two of :

Ghryt, Jack, Maz, Romanus (assuming Cheezefan is killed)

Ghyrt

In his many illustrious posts, has ALSO only commented/fossed/looked at
Raging Rabbits
Skruffs

Jack

In a list Jack posted previously, he said he was going to nominate
Maz
Jack

Maz is probably going to nominate two of

Raging Rabbit
Skruffs
Dean

Raging Rabbit

Seems to be enemies with everyone, but focuses a lot onn
Romanus
MM

Romanus

Cheesefan dead today - biggest lurkers tommorrow
(biggest lurkers are : )
TCS
Ghyrt
YellowBounder

Skruffs

Maz
T.C.S

The Central Scrutinizer

Does not refer to non-nominees, so, presumably

Yellow bounder

Said he would nominate :
Romanus
(presumably) Jdodge
and

JDodge

Nobody Knows..

So presumably, two of Maz, Romanus, and Raging Rabbit will be nominated tommorrow.

Who I think is scummy :
Maz, Ghyrt, and TCS have basically ignored everyone else in the town and focused only on the people who are nominated today.
Maz, especially, has no trouble voting between them, ridiculing them, etc.I don't like his 'boogeyman' post where he says:

]
Because any premeditation of night actions that mafia can know about

can and will be tampered with

. Don't underestimate the creativity of the scum. Also, considering the flavor of the game, don't count out the presence of scum power roles that deal with nominations. Romanus' claim already shows us that there are nominatory power roles, and I would be surprised if none of these came up scum.

*THIS* is ridiculous. He's not only been belittling Every attempt for people to talk with each other, he's also sayign that Trying it will END IN FAILURE... to the point of trying to lynch people who Do advocate it.

I don't think scum has that much power, Yet, in this game.
Scum want to kill people who will not be nominated. Killing townies who are going to be nominated isn't going to help them. Killing people who is under the radar and not likely to get any votes, THAT is who they want to kill.
There. This is kinda about nominations, but this is mostly because I think Maz is behaving scummily.

[Jack]

Worst case: 7 townies, Three scum. Scum have 6 votes, townies have

14

. If the scum vote in a block, two players get 3 votes. If there are about 4 players the town finds suspicious, those guys will probably also get three votes. If two of them get 4, ok then that's actually good. If 4 get three then we have six people up, excellent.

Skruffs, it's not like we're going to say tonight "hmm I think this person is suspicious, so I'll nominate him

even though no one else suspects him and he probably won't be up

." We'll take into consideration who we think will be popular choices.

[Jack]

I'm going to go all fascist and say we should nominate people who are refusing to cooperate with everyone else. Not only does it put a bigger target on all fo the cooperators backs

Yeah, this is a bad idea. This was pointed out already I believe. I'm really not sure what you're playing at skruffs, you seem to be avoiding the traditional mafia play entirely. I admit there's a temptation to discuss the system but it's useless without standard play behind it.

Lately I'm finding skruffs the most scummy of the four. I have to reread though (should have before but oh well, will before deadline anyway).

[Skruffs]

This is *not* A traditional mafia game. In a traditional mafia game ANyone can be lynched on any day. In this game, we *HAVE* to plan ahead, or others will plan ahead *for* us.

Maz was voting RR for advocating teamwork, he directed attention at Dead for advocating teamwork, and now he's happily voting me for advocating teamwork. Why?

Even if there is mafia, there is a LOT more town than there is mafia. This is why...

Scum don't want town to work together

- They want us to be distracted little sheep. LOOK at the flavor for the intro; they are subversives here to kill all of us. IF we work together, They may try to lead us, yes, but at the least they will have to Step in line and lay low and cooperational.

Look at Maz's other quotes :

I want to note that an increase in randomness always helps the larger force.

What is the bigger force in a game with an informed minority and 8-9 uninformed individuals?

I will not agree to reveal nominations unless I am the only individual to refuse.

It's a known that JDodge will not reveal his, so Maz is completely safe in making this statement, but look at it just a little closer. The only individual? That means if Maz is actually a town, then every other townie and EVERY scum, will have to agree to cooperate, BEFORE Maz will. This is an impossibility.

It looks (to me) like Maz is going to be nominated tommorrow, and by his own decree we shouldn't change the way people are wanting to nominate.

[DeanWinchester]

Man I thought TCS was town, but the proxy to Maz looks so bad. I still like how no votes have really been cast on who to lynch today.
I'm still certain Maz and ghryt are mafia.

[JDodge]

Maz was voting RR for advocating teamwork, he directed attention at Dead for advocating teamwork, and now he's happily voting me for advocating teamwork. Why?

I'd like to point your attention to any earlier quote by you....

Every single post I've made, you've misinterpreted, misconstrued, and ignored.

Because this is what you're now doing to me and it seems you are now trying to do to Maz.

[JDodge]

Man I thought TCS was town, but the proxy to Maz looks so bad. I still like how no votes have really been cast on who to lynch today.
I'm still certain Maz and ghryt are mafia.

I have. You vote because you think someone's scum, not because they won't agree to your plan.

[Skruffs]

Is that all you have to say about that, JDodge? Saying "You are misconstrueing" is not sayign

anything

unless you back it up. You don't seem to have any intentions of doing so... you are posting vague rebuttals saying 'Uh-uh" as a defense. You are the one advocating true democracy, and I respect that, but this game is MORE than just voting between who's been nominated.

Just think about it for a while.. take a break, re-read or get away from the computer and really *consider* what's going to wind up helping the town and what's not.

Basically, we choose who we're going to lynch tommorrow, *today* - that's what the nomination process EQUATES too. I am all for Maz going up tommorrow, and not just because of his impossible demands and "fear da scum" posts. IF you think someone is scummy tommorrow, you have to nominate them tommorrow night. If you think someone is scummy today, you have to nominate them tonight.

I posted Maz's quotes and how they are flawed - show how my arguments are flawed. THAT is what is standard about this game - we can debate. Let's do so. Just voting to silence a voice you don't agree with... is that really what democratism is about?

[JDodge]

I posted Maz's quotes and how they are flawed - show how my arguments are flawed. THAT is what is standard about this game - we can debate. Let's do so. Just voting to silence a voice you don't agree with... is that really what democratism is about?

Hahahahaha! That gave me a good laugh. You're saying I'm voting to silence a voice I don't agree with, when you've said you're going to vote for people you don't agree with?

[Romanus]

I am no longer reading Skruffs posts because he is a distraction.

[Skruffs]

JDodge, you keep getting my references to you and Maz mixed up.