Newbie 320 - Berry Village Mafia V (Game Over!)

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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:56 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Unvote, vote: remussaidow


Venkman, Eldarion and Nocmen are looking somewhat pro-town so far, I would think. GreenLiquid I'm not sure of, Caddock has yet to post(but the thread hasn't been up that long, so that's natural. Remus' posts have not demonstrated a pro-town mindset.
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:35 am

Post by Blackberry »

Azibo Village Vote Count
[/color]

remussaidow
### 3 [GreenLiquid, Peter Venkman, Cogito Ergo Sum]
Cogito Ergo Sum
# 1 [remussaidow]

Not Voting: Caddock, Eldarion, Nocmen


Four Votes to Lynch.


I am not going to prod someone when it hasn't even been 24 hours... errr, well I suppose it JUST turned 24 hours, but still. Lol.
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:48 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Oh snap.
Unvote
, that'd have been a little overboard.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:20 pm

Post by remussaidow »

GreenLiquid wrote:Any votes during the random vote stage shouldn't appear as true attacks. They are merely used to jump-start the game and gather reactions. If you do get two random votes, it is not something to worry about: remember, they are baseless, and there most likely isn't any argument against you at that point.

The way remussaidow responds to CES' pre-game comment strikes me as very scummy. Reacting in that way is a pretty strong tell. In addition, it looks more so scummy when he begins 'attacking' other players (I use this term loosely, but you can see that he does say things towards some others). I'm not entirely sure he's scum at this point, but it's the best lead I can find:

Vote: remussaidow

Green Liquid, your post is a contradiction in and of itself. You point out that the random voting stage has no meaning, yet you vote me for a vote placed during this stage in the game.

The point though, Peter, to me sitting on information, as you put it (which I still don't think that I did) is to give everyone time to form their own opinions. It is a very bad idea to run along behind an analyst and use his posts as the basis for your votes. I did this in newbie 300, behind SV, and he ended up being scum. I say this right now so that everyone here will formulate his or her own opinions on the game.

For now I will
unvote
because I am reasonably sure that CES is town at this point. I also am reasonably sure the Peter is town. Green Liquid I am rather concerned about because of the contradiction that I pointed out in my openening quote. Eldarion, my comments were neither vague nor grandoise. The information I was using to base my conclusions on is written plainly in the thread. Nocmen, I didn't flip out, I am perfectly calm.

To all of you, think about it. I responded to CES's joke with a... Joke. However everyone says that his was obviously a joke, and that mine is obviously a scum tell. That really makes no sense.

I can't comment on Caddock because as of yet I have not seen him post in thread.
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:25 pm

Post by remussaidow »

umm....

Did caddock ever confirm?
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:07 pm

Post by Nocmen »

remussaidow wrote:
The point though, Peter, to me sitting on information, as you put it (which I still don't think that I did) is to give everyone time to form their own opinions. It is a very bad idea to run along behind an analyst and use his posts as the basis for your votes. I did this in newbie 300, behind SV, and he ended up being scum. I say this right now so that everyone here will formulate his or her own opinions on the game.

The information I was using to base my conclusions on is written plainly in the thread. Nocmen, I didn't flip out, I am perfectly calm.

To all of you, think about it. I responded to CES's joke with a... Joke. However everyone says that his was obviously a joke, and that mine is obviously a scum tell. That really makes no sense.
Trimmed down the quote to what i need to respond to.

First of all, no one is really following anyone in this game from what i have seen. Peter has been decucing his own conclusions and working off that.

You did respond to CES's joke, which hell, as far as I know may or may not be a joke. You claim to have used a joke, which really is hard to determine as a joke in the game. If anything can be taken as serious or as a joke, I can bet that 99% of the time in Mafia it will be taken seriously. To me, you responded to something that we dont know how serious it was with what seemed like a very serious, defensive, OMGUS.

I feel that you are acting so strongly against ONE SINGLE VOTE that you have to be scum, which is why
Vote:Remussaidow
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:09 pm

Post by remussaidow »

you know what

go ahead and lynch me.

I'm not scum, I haven't been all game, and since when did blatant OMGUS's as first votes start being scum tells?
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:16 pm

Post by Nocmen »

remussaidow wrote: I'm not scum, I haven't been all game, and since when did blatant OMGUS's as first votes start being scum tells?
There is nothing wrong with just maybe one OMGUS, especially if you interpret the post as a joke and make your own post obviously sarcasm. Your post comes off as a defensive, especially "Seriously dude, is that even legal?"
And then, to top it off, you get offensive towards Eldarion in the same post, for changing votes quickly, while just before then you had gone against that and thrown an OMGUS.
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:24 pm

Post by remussaidow »

I'm being attacked, and you're expecting me not to be defensive. I never switch votes quickly. Ever. Show me where I switched votes quickly. I voted for...

ONE person. thats not a switch in votes.
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:41 pm

Post by Peter Venkman »

Wow,
now
we have something to talk about!

CES
You were the third vote on Remu. About 50 minutes passed, than you retracted your vote. From what I can tell from your retraction post, you might not have realized you were the third vote, and are not ready to lynch. You are asking us to really put faith in you, and I don't like such blatent mistakes from a veteran player as yourself.

However, your weird behavior isn't nearly as important as the Big question on my mind. Why wasn't Remu lynched?? As far as I can tell, this gives us a few scenariios to work with.

1) One of the three people [GreenLiquid, Peter Venkman, Cogito Ergo Sum] who voted for Remu is scum. And Remu is scum.

2) One of the three people who voted for Remu is scum, and scum #2 missed his window, didn't want to hammer to draw suspicion, or is not playing (Caddock).

3) None of the voters are scum, Remu is scum, and scum #2 didn't want to hammer his partner.

4) Two of the voters are scum and no town took the bait.

Each of these scenarios is a lot to mull over. I'm carefully considering their full implications, and would ask each of you to do the same. Which of these situations do you feel is most likely?

I'm getting less and less sure about Caddock being unaware the game is going on. If Blackberry is not going to prod Caddock we have no evidence that he is unaware of the thread. He
did
confirm. I'm begining to think this is deliberate.

I really, really didn't want to attack someone who isn't aware the game is going on. I was excited to play my first game of mafia, and I'd be upset if I was lynched before I even got a chance to post. However, because Blackberry is not going to prod Caddock, I feel the only tool we have at confirming his status is pressure.

Unvote Remussaidow. Vote Caddock


I still suspect
Remu
, but leaving my vote on him is meaningless. If he didn't get lynched earlier today, than something is amiss. I'm doing like
CES
recomended, and using the power of my vote to it's fullest.

And
CES
I havn't forgotten your goofyness. Please, tighten up your play.

-Peter
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:49 pm

Post by remussaidow »

Peter, I went back to the first page and looked for caddock's confirm. I didn't see it. I'm going to look again for his post that he confirmed again, but in the meantime if someone could quote it for me, that would be helpful.

Also, more game related- FOS Nocmen and GL for thinking it odd that I attack two people out of one post. On day one, this is a town oriented action.
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:50 pm

Post by remussaidow »

yeah, I don't think Caddock ever post /confirmed.


Bolded so berry will notice.
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:07 pm

Post by Peter Venkman »

Good find Remu. That makes my vote meaningless.

Hopefully I won't be accused for waffling now.

Unvote Caddock


Remu, I see you are still up. Care to share your thoughts on today's events?

-Peter
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:15 pm

Post by remussaidow »

When I figure out why I got bandwagoned- twice- to lynch -1, for a pretty townie based action...

yes. But until then, I really don't have any coherent thoughts.

As I said, I think that you and CES are town. I don't think that a scum would take his vote off when he realized that he dropped me to lynch -1. I honestly think that GL is scum for the reasons I mentioned above for my FOSing him, but almost every point is a really weak tell. And two really weak tells doesn't mean much at all.

Though, completely unimportant to the game, my username breaks down to remus said ow, so the name part of it is remus, not remu.
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:30 pm

Post by Peter Venkman »

Remu> You were at -1 to lynch for about 5 hours total today.

I left for work a little after I put the second vote on you, and checked this thread as soon as I got home.

Also, don't think that
CES
did you any favors by removing his vote. He put you at -1 to lynch for
absolutely no given reason
, than backed out when no-one bit. Right now he is asking us to beleive that this was a mistake.

Why do you beleive him?

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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:37 pm

Post by Peter Venkman »

(sorry about the name thing, i'll be sure to call you Remus from here out)
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:15 am

Post by Blackberry »

Caddock did confirm, but apparently his account has been deleted. I am getting a replacement.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:43 am

Post by GreenLiquid »

remussaidow wrote:
GreenLiquid wrote:Any votes during the random vote stage shouldn't appear as true attacks. They are merely used to jump-start the game and gather reactions. If you do get two random votes, it is not something to worry about: remember, they are baseless, and there most likely isn't any argument against you at that point.

The way remussaidow responds to CES' pre-game comment strikes me as very scummy. Reacting in that way is a pretty strong tell. In addition, it looks more so scummy when he begins 'attacking' other players (I use this term loosely, but you can see that he does say things towards some others). I'm not entirely sure he's scum at this point, but it's the best lead I can find:

Vote: remussaidow

Green Liquid, your post is a contradiction in and of itself. You point out that the random voting stage has no meaning, yet you vote me for a vote placed during this stage in the game.

The point though, Peter, to me sitting on information, as you put it (which I still don't think that I did) is to give everyone time to form their own opinions. It is a very bad idea to run along behind an analyst and use his posts as the basis for your votes. I did this in newbie 300, behind SV, and he ended up being scum. I say this right now so that everyone here will formulate his or her own opinions on the game.

For now I will
unvote
because I am reasonably sure that CES is town at this point. I also am reasonably sure the Peter is town. Green Liquid I am rather concerned about because of the contradiction that I pointed out in my openening quote. Eldarion, my comments were neither vague nor grandoise. The information I was using to base my conclusions on is written plainly in the thread. Nocmen, I didn't flip out, I am perfectly calm.

To all of you, think about it. I responded to CES's joke with a... Joke. However everyone says that his was obviously a joke, and that mine is obviously a scum tell. That really makes no sense.

I can't comment on Caddock because as of yet I have not seen him post in thread.
This is craplogic. Look at CES' vote. Did it come with a logical argument of any type whatsoever? Now look at mine. I clearly explained what about your post I didn't like, provided reasoning, and posted again when it was unclear. That is
not
random by any means.

Your post is clearly not a joke either. You voted CES for the pre-game vote, but not in a joking way, then went on to attack other players for various things you saw.
I'm being attacked, and you're expecting me not to be defensive. I never switch votes quickly. Ever. Show me where I switched votes quickly. I voted for...
You don't have to quickly switch your vote to be defensive. Defensiveness is similar to paranoia about arguments. That post
reeks
of defensiveness.
CES You were the third vote on Remu. About 50 minutes passed, than you retracted your vote. From what I can tell from your retraction post, you might not have realized you were the third vote, and are not ready to lynch. You are asking us to really put faith in you, and I don't like such blatent mistakes from a veteran player as yourself.
I also noticed this. It's not much, but I could see it as two things:

1) CES, being pro-town, accidentally places the third vote. The new vote count is posted, he realizes the error and unvotes.
2) CES, being scum, intentionally places the third vote in hopes that a player not paying attention to the number of votes will accidentally hammer. When the vote count is posted, he thinks it would be to obvious and unvotes.
3) CES, being scum, gives his partner 50mins to hammer. I don't think this is likely, as it would put a huge target on his partner's back the next day, and a huge target on his own the day after that.

I don't think it's significant, but still is deserving of a small
FOS: CES
.
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:31 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Being fallible sucks. :cry:
Peter Venkman wrote:Why wasn't Remu lynched??
The scum need two mislynches to win, not one. A quicklynch might be a good short term move, but it's a really bad long term move. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if noone was even on during that 50 minute window.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:54 am

Post by Peter Venkman »

CES
> You appear to be pointing at
only
scum hammering after your third vote. Town could have easily done it, and day 2 would have been just as confusing.

You are playing like scum right now. Scum would drop a third vote hoping for a lazy townie to hammer. Than, Day2, would have said something similar to what you just said. We blame the hammer, mislynch, than scum wins.

I asked you to tighten up your play and you still post half the story. You are still asking us to take your third vote on faith as a "mistake."

Your are my number one suspect right now.

-Peter
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:34 am

Post by GreenLiquid »

I suspect that if CES is scum, the move was intended to get an unaware or confused townie to hammer, not his partner. I still think there's a stronger argument against remussaidow at present.
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:29 am

Post by Eldarion »

Cogito Ergo Sum wrote: The scum need two mislynches to win, not one. A quicklynch might be a good short term move, but it's a really bad long term move. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if noone was even on during that 50 minute window.
I was on. I didn't post, because I wasn't entirely sure what was going down; I also didn't want to discount the fact that we may only be playing with 1 scum at the moment and that throws a much different light on the play that's been happening so far.

I've really got nothing to put in, except that I'd like Cogito to make a longer post about why we should put the faith in him he's asking us to.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:30 pm

Post by Nocmen »

I was also on at that time, but like Eldarion I did not respond. To me, going after remus at that time wasnt worth forcing a hammer yet, especially because I like to hear people respond before I vote for them when they are near a do or die situation(in this case, remus did answer, but just made him look worse, making me feel safer voting into him).
But I do agree that it was very bad for CES to put up the third vote, hoping that someone could go and just take him out, and then planning on voting for the 4th guy tomorrow saying its his fault for the mislynch.
This game is really showing a CES-Remus pair for the scum in my eyes.
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:35 pm

Post by GreenLiquid »

This game is really showing a CES-Remus pair for the scum in my eyes.
Um, ok? Doesn't that directly contradict the above comment?
But I do agree that it was very bad for CES to put up the third vote, hoping that someone could go and just take him out, and then planning on voting for the 4th guy tomorrow saying its his fault for the mislynch.
FOS: Nocmen
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:00 pm

Post by Eldarion »

Nocmen wrote:But I do agree that it was very bad for CES to put up the third vote, hoping that someone could go and just take him out, and then planning on voting for the 4th guy tomorrow saying its his fault for the mislynch.
This game is really showing a CES-Remus pair for the scum in my eyes.
As much as I'd like to agree with your post for agreeing with me, but...

Your post about CES-Remus (esp CES) is plain bad logic. You can't accuse CES of trying to subtly get rid of Remus as a townsman, and in the same breath say that this proves that CES and Remus are scum. It assumes that Remus is town, and uses it to nail CES, and then use CES's 'proven' guilt to 'prove' Remus by association. Uhhh, what?!

FoS: Nocmen

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