Mini 1500:Narnia- The Lion,the Witch,and the Wardrobe Mafia

[PeaceBringer]

vote project matt

[projectmatt]

i'm pretty much prod dodging since given this games snail pace i have little to add

[alienBRO]

i don't get the votes on Honig....

What don't you get? What do you make of his post here:

Moz do you still think I'm town and if so why?

I can think of only one reason ATM why town would ask this question, and it's situation-specific.

mozamis, you said you didn't like Skelda's first post. While Skelda doesn't seem to have more than one finished game, here's his first post from there:

Why is everyone voting for people who haven't even replied yet? People confuse me!

Most games I believe go through a stage of "random" voting. I for one don't particularly care for it, I find it much more desirable to accuse people on at least a moderate level of evidence, but it is what it is. If people want to randomly accuse, I'm in no position to stop them, and I suppose at a bare minimum it prompts the first few pages of the discussion to go at a fairly fast rate and stretch out the Day a little before things get serious, which is obviously something I guess we should want to happen. And perhaps an ill-placed random vote can give us a nice starting point, eh?

Although RadiantCowbells self-vote is rather ridiculous, to be honest. I'm not sure why anyone, scum or otherwise, would want to draw that sort of attention so immediately, unless they were simply trying to make the Day go by faster. Even then, it just seems pointless.

Anyway, as this is my first post, I guess I should introduce myself. Hiyah, all, I'm Skelda. This is my first game on Mafiascum, obviously, but I've played a couple games off site, although far more fast-paced and goofy than anything I've come across on this forum. I'm interested to see how this plays out, I've always loved Mafia and now that hopefully the goofy randomness of many other games I've been in isn't as prevalent, we can really get down to business. Alright?

The part at the end is consistent with his tenor here.

Rereading mozamis's ISO, I don't see anything that makes me think he's scum after all. Whatever was pinging to me isn't any more.

--PA

[Garmr]

That's interesting going back and looking at it we have three opposing wagons the mnemonicdevice wagon and the HonigBear wagon. Early game I had Honig as null leaning town and even through he is defensive he has does quite a bit of scum hunting and his posts are detailed and that's why I'm more willing to keep him around than mnemonicdevice. Mnemonic is the other side the coin he seems to be the complete opposite of Honig he has made little to none scum hunting effort and just shrugs everything off with out having any defense that make sense the tone of them through sound like he doesn't care about being lynched. This is the only thing people can say about him being town is the way he defends himself by his tone alone. To me there's many reasons why someone would care about being lynched. It could they are town, they are bored of the game and don't care or they are really good at faking they don't care.

So Who's more likely to make a scumslip in day 2.

Someone who posts actively gives allot of reads and content and gets overly defensive.

or

Some who's posts little, who's reasons are blaggh and doesn't give a decent defense and the only reason people think his town is because of the way he doesn't care.......................................

That's why i see Mnemonic as the better lynch.

[PeaceBringer]

not that gamr makes that point

Vote honig...

[Hermy]

VOTE: Mnemonic

What the heck are you playing at!? And WHY exactly would you not use your vote?

[alienBRO]

I would have defended myself the same regardless of the number of people voting for me but I can't really defend myself now that you're voting for me because I'm defending myself apart from saying that just because townies outnumber scum doesn't mean townies shouldn't defend themselves, it's in both their interests. Should I just let myself be lynched without saying a word? How exactly does that help town?

Scumhunting is still a problem for me though because I'm still lost in this thread, I really don't know who voted for who and why. I'll really try to make an effort tomorrow though.

1) The issue isn't that town shouldn't defend themselves. It's that town shouldn't care about 1-2 erroneous reads. Townies don't want to get mislynched, true, but they also have another interest in play: finding scum. Scum don't have that interest, they want to make themselves and their partners look as town as possible (until the bussing happens).

2) Or can you not scumhunt because you are scum...

[alienBRO]

^Bro

[alienBRO]

Initial reads:

Mozamis is town

mildly

. I don't think that his content has been exactly good so far, but he picked up on similar tells (Skelda being very friendly) and he seems to be playing to appease himself and not other players which seems relatively devoid of the scum play I would expect.

mnemonicdevice is tentatively town. I like the fact that he refuses to join the other bandwagon in competition with him and some of his early posts rang off as town as well. The confessional nature of stuff like post 30feels like it has little scum motivation. His play has little substance but he seems excited as opposed to scum trying to fit in.

I've never played with PeaceBringer so to imply that I have a strong read on him would be wrong. I'd like to compare his previous meta in games as to get a read on him but through a very thin look his play looks town. I feel the same way about Broken Aquarium.

Yes. Peace is playing like peace normally plays.

I checked, it is.

UNVOTE: , VOTE: mozamis

Which games did you check?

At the moment, I don't have any strong scum reads but I expect that to change.

Don't let it leave an imprint on your butt

-Bro

[alienBRO]

Last few pages have been interesting, going to back-end reads with penguin and get back to y'all.

-Bro

[ArcAngel9]

Skelda and Shane have been prodded!!!!

[HönigBear]

Rofl I'm loving this, now you're telling me I'm scum for asking why someone who I think is scummy thinks I'm town. Please walk me through your thought processes.
I really just simply absolutely find it just inexplicably horrendously incomprehensibly difficult to understand why you would deal with such absolutes and extremes especially in this part of the game, (i'm looking at smar and bro here).

(examples: "scum don't want RVS to end" - DUDE, RVS ALWAYS ENDS, whether it's half a day later or sooner barely matters, it mostly depends on the number of people who post and I'm sorry but unless you're playing a 5 person game I don't see why you would seriously (and seriously in this case means the guy had appreciably more than a 1/13 chance) vote for the first guy to come on a wagon when it's fucking 7 votes to a lynch)

"only scum/scum are more likely to defend themselves/defend themselves vehemently" - oh well excuse me for thinking that this is a dialogue-based game and I should just shut up instead of offering my viewpoint on things (isn't that why we bother to say who we think is scum and vote for them, by trying to discuss and carry our viewpoints forward?) As for vehemence and thoroughness that depends on the player.

"defending yourself doesn't really matter, it only changes the opinion of one or two people" - again, I thought this was dialogue based, I suppose then that this applies to a person's attacks as well so then why do any of us bother scum hunting and asking questions at all? Why don't we all just play like peacebringer?

and now most recently: "questioning why someone think's you're town is scummy" - I have to admit this one wins the prize, especially considering the circumstances here.
Let me just describe the situation here according to how it looks to me currently: I have voted for a guy nay I have tunneled him ever since we started this game, remaining the biggest advocate for his lynch and he all of a sudden just casually names me as town (note that he also wasn't the first one to do this). I ask him ONCE why he thinks I'm town (ok the question was a bit ambiguous but still, obviously the guy isn't particularly attentive) and now I ask him again. And even after I ask him again he still refuses to answer me and instead sees it as a valid excuse to call me scum while avoiding the question.

In general town reads are analogous to scum reads in the sense that they MUST BE EXPLAINED (what's the point of saying you think someone is town or scum without saying why, you guys hate on peacebringer (ok I do as well but still) but your logic here is exactly the same, actually no it's worse because you guys are saying that one thing is ok and another is bad: asking someone why they think you're scum is ok but why they think you're town is bad!?) and I wanted him to explain himself. Oh and thanks everyone for not noticing that he didn't fucking answer my question.

Asking moz why he thinks I'm town is my best attempt at scum hunting so far recently because I have been busy and can't deliver on my promises to look at the other interactions like the whole mnemonic and projectmatt thing (if you were to lynch me for that I'd have nothing against it lol), I will try and do it on the weekend but I honestly can't promise anything.
But if you lynch me because of all the bs aforementioned reasons then I hope at least my town flip will change your mindset concerning "how scum play and how town play"...(no please gimme some more of that circular logic/I can do psychological analyses on posts crap and tell me how this defeatist attitude is scummy, please I beg you to).

Oh yeah I think I might as well throw in some reads here while I'm at it.

smargaret: town
Awful logic but there's no way scum would so "vehemently" (as she puts it) pursue me and be the first one on my wagon even if it is to protect partner moz. This would be extremely risky play (knowing that I will flip town) and there's no way she could survive day 2.

mozamis: I want this guy lynched
Hasn't posted any good content, his posts are 80% fluff and unoriginal, at worst if he flips town it won't be much of a loss (this logic applies to peace as well but in moz's case I am more than 1/12 sure that he's scum). And yeah he refuses to answer my question.

Alien: could easily be scum
I have to admit I'm not in the calmest of moods writing this but he has parroted smargaret's arguments and seems eager to defend moz, this is telling me he's eager to look like an engineer of the wagon rather than someone just along for the ride (like skelda was confused of being). He's playing deputy engineer though knowing smar will get all the flak when I flip town cos she was first on the wagon and he can always have the excuse that he genuinely thought I was scum (this excuse is his accusations which are really smarg's but rephrased). However this analysis is solely based on his attitude towards me, I need to ISO him and look at other interactions before I can have a better picture.

As for everyone else, need to ISO which may or may not happen depending on my mood (sorry, but feel free to lynch me for that or vote for whether you want me replaced or something if that's a thing I dunno).
Btw did you noticed how I explained my reads instead of just stating them?

[Garmr]

Two opposing wagons,why did I say three head desk not thinking straight.

[HönigBear]

I would have defended myself the same regardless of the number of people voting for me but I can't really defend myself now that you're voting for me because I'm defending myself apart from saying that just because townies outnumber scum doesn't mean townies shouldn't defend themselves, it's in both their interests. Should I just let myself be lynched without saying a word? How exactly does that help town?

Scumhunting is still a problem for me though because I'm still lost in this thread, I really don't know who voted for who and why. I'll really try to make an effort tomorrow though.

1) The issue isn't that town shouldn't defend themselves. It's that town shouldn't care about 1-2 erroneous reads. Townies don't want to get mislynched, true, but they also have another interest in play: finding scum. Scum don't have that interest, they want to make themselves and their partners look as town as possible (until the bussing happens).

2) Or can you not scumhunt because you are scum...

Nope, town should defend themselves no matter the number of wrong reads. They absolutely should scum hunt as well and the latter should obviously be a bigger concern.
However like I said I've been busy/bored and can't be bothered to read the whole thread again while on the other hand defending one's self is much easier if not as useful. I hope you can see that I did scumhunt in the beginning but that was before school started and now I have more on my plate (asking moz that question is a type of scumhunting though, especially since he refused to answer it). So like I said, weekend eventually.

[Hermy]

I don't know what to think now.

I guess since Skelda has started lurking a bit since the accusations, he seems like a good vote. But I REALLY don't like the look of some of the other people voting for him...

[smargaret]

Moz

do you still think I'm town

and if so why?

Just gonna leave that here. Also, it's a game. Calm down.

Hermy: Elaborate, please. What people voting Skelda do you find scummy, and why?

[Garmr]

To be post 192 looks like his more curious than trying to get people to think that he is town. It seems post 192 got warped somewhere I want to look into that.

[Garmr]

to be honest*

[mozamis]

Yeah Honig is town.
And in fairness to him, I had forgotten he thought I was scum. So his "moz why do you think I am town" makes more sense. I can see why, if he thinks I'm scum,that me finding him town seems weird "this guy is scum, and he is town reading me? what is he playing at".
But anyway, if he is scum, he is playing INVREDIBLY WELL. The sheer detail of his posts, the coherent arguments, the annoyed defensive tone of his posts -screams town.

Hermy's post 205 looks really opportunistic to me "Hey lets vote for the guy who hasnt voted and who other people find suspicious".
Plus her really vague p214 about Skelda looks weak "Oh, I don't know what to do...", really weak fence sitting.
Still up for lynching Skelda, but happy too send hermy packing as well.

[Skelda]

I'm here! Sorry, I'll catch up tomorrow, I've been busy lately.

[mozamis]

Still waiting Skelda.
Could we FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get some votes on this scumbutt. He has no reason to post otherwise.

[Skelda]

Still waiting Skelda.
Could we FOR THE LOVE OF GOD get some votes on this scumbutt. He has no reason to post otherwise.

That isn't exactly true.

Trust me, I'm lacking in time, not motivation. I'm going to try and form a decent reads list now...

[Garmr]

Now that I think about it no ones actually tried to do a read on me no matter how loud I voice my opinion. That's a little Disturbing.

[mozamis]

Trust me, I'm lacking in time, not motivation. I'm going to try and form a decent reads list now...

How you coming along?

[Skelda]

Okay let's do this...

BA- He gives a lot of town reads. I usually don't like that, since hunting town doesn't really help us all that much. And I don't mind his read on mneumonic, he seems like he had a gut feeling supported by evidence and stuck to it and that is always good. Although sometimes his evidence can be a little weak, like in 114, I'm classifying him as a solid leaning town read.

Gramr- I wasn't crazy about the way he jumped around to Peace early on, but I suppose most of us did. That seemed a little caught up in the moment, but maybe scummy. But overall, I find him very town. I especially like his case against mnemonic in 124 and 203. He actually changed the way I thought about mnemonic, and I think that's a good thing since I'm not exactly renowned for my Day 1 scumhunting abilities.

Honig- Well, he seems to be invested in this game in a way that I don't often see scum invested. His 211 seems very genuine, and in general I find myself agreeing with most of what he says. At the same time, his posts are very wall-of-texty, and that sometimes makes them a bit difficult to get through, but his dislike of rolling the dice with peace seems very town to me.

mozamis- He is being really fluffy right now. Getting on my nerves, honestly. His 218 is especially bad with his "I'd forgotten he was scum", since I can't imagine his read was ever that serious to begin with if he forgot about it. 155 is also bad, since "forgetting to put someone on your reads list" is, in my mind, not a legitimate reason to suspect them. It is like forging evidence or something. Not good.

Shane- His 75 was basically jumping on moz's reads, and pretty much useless. And other than that, he is just a lack of information for the town. His one comment came from 163, when the best he could come up with was a tip about pressuring directed at me. Kind of ridiculous, he has given us nothing.

Matt- I don't like how he voted Moz and then unvoted the instant he was pressed. That isn't good. I also didn't like that all of his reads were town ones in 180. Leaning scum.

JKLM- Looking back, I'm not entirely liking how he put me in a box early on saying "this is your scummy", "this isn't your scummy". That never appeals to me. But, he does seem to genuinely be trying to get reactions and participating, so that is good. Null/town.

Hermy- Well, I don't like how quick she was to call me out for lurking in 214, since she hasn't exactly been helpful herself, and I try to post whenever I can. But Null...

Mnemonicdevice- His Unvote in 106 was strange. And the fact that he is refusing to vote seems to be the biggest evidence against him. I also really dislike his 141 where he says that he is always vague day 1, since scum need to actively think about how they always are and act like it. I think he's scum.

smargaret- I think he's very town. His 193 was interesting for me. I don't view Honig as scum, but it does seem like his suspicions are valid, if that makes any sense.

I think that's everyone. If I missed anyone let me know and I'll throw something together.