Magic: The Gathering,GO TEAM MS!

[InflatablePie]

white weenie getting some cool stuff.

[xRECKONERx]

It's mostly a surprise counter. Like, countering something with it early probably isn't that great, but being able to play out a threat and still leave U up to get a Sphinx's Revelation or something is a big game. I don't know that I'd play it in dedicated control, though- it seems like more of a tempo card.

Eh? Dispel did the same thing and barely saw sideboard play.

[Natirasha]

Swan Song is pretty good. Not amazing, but solid.

The Weenie dude is kinda weak. 2/2 Double Strike with no abilities isn't terribly good. It might see play, I guess. I'd rather have Fiendslayer every day though.

Dissolve is obviously good. There went any chance of Render Silent ever seeing play

[chamber]

think she'll go the way of Vraska and be mostly overlooked until the meta's just right/she'll be mostly a sideboard card.

I mean, this is basically what I said when I first said the card wasn't good? Though I think shes notably weaker than vraska even.

[Sudo_Nym]

It's mostly a surprise counter. Like, countering something with it early probably isn't that great, but being able to play out a threat and still leave U up to get a Sphinx's Revelation or something is a big game. I don't know that I'd play it in dedicated control, though- it seems like more of a tempo card.

Eh? Dispel did the same thing and barely saw sideboard play.

Dispel only hit Instants. I'm not saying it amazing, but it can be a solid roleplayer in the right deck. For most decks, though, you're probably just better off with Izzet charm or Dissolve or something, but if mono blue aggro or fish become things, I'd look at Swan Song for them.

[InflatablePie]

2/2 Double Strike with no abilities isn't terribly good.

it has an ability

also, doesn't Dispel see a lot of Modern play

[chamber]

It's mostly a surprise counter. Like, countering something with it early probably isn't that great, but being able to play out a threat and still leave U up to get a Sphinx's Revelation or something is a big game. I don't know that I'd play it in dedicated control, though- it seems like more of a tempo card.

Eh? Dispel did the same thing and barely saw sideboard play.

Dispel only hit Instants. I'm not saying it amazing, but it can be a solid roleplayer in the right deck. For most decks, though, you're probably just better off with Izzet charm or Dissolve or something, but if mono blue aggro or fish become things, I'd look at Swan Song for them.

card seems much better in hard control than in fish to me. In tempo giving them a body matters way more than in control where you have sweepers and etc anyway. I'm not entirely sold on the card yet, but I don't think it can be awful.

[Thestatusquo]

I certainly don't think I would want to run 4.

[chamber]

I certainly don't think I would want to run 4.

a hand with multiples is pretty unplayable, yeah.

[Shanba]

I recently discovered that borborygmus is the scientific name for stomach rumbles.

Also pyroclasmesque card is the first slam dunk rare I've seen.

Swan song is like 1 mana negate with a drawback. I'd expect it to be a sideboard card if anything, cause when its bad its abysmal. In older formats the combo decks that run non-fow counters might find a place for it, I guess.

[dramonic]

Do you think Wizard remembers they printed Oblivion Stone with Fate counters already?

[xRECKONERx]

Yes? especially since Oblivion Stone sees play in Modern?

[Shanba]

I lost in my standard pauper match this round

[Fate]

FIREDRINKER SATYR IS HERE TO CHEER YOU UP


RIP FOUNDRY STREET NOBODY LOVED YOU ANYWAY

[Sudo_Nym]

I wonder if the format's going to be slow enough for Monstrous to matter, or if that's just going to be a block/limited thing.

[Shanba]

FIREDRINKER SATYR IS HERE TO CHEER YOU UP


RIP FOUNDRY STREET NOBODY LOVED YOU ANYWAY

What about a deck like this:

4xfoundry street
4xsatyr or cackler, whichever ends up being better
4xpyromancer
some number of chandra's phoenix
chandra herself
bunch of burn/token making/dynacharges

[Fate]

.....

cackler and satyr are BOTH better than foudnry street by miles.

I know he's cute with the token making and whatever, but without legion loyalist he's a bit embarassing. Satyr is way more consistent.


As for a more midrange build, the powers at be have this shell now that the 3 mana board wipe was printed:


4x Frostburn Weird
4x Reckoner
4x Stormbreath Dragon

1x Hammer

3x Chandra herself

4x Anger of the Gods
Xx asloads of burn removal, mortars, shocks, lightning strike, magma jet.


Its pretty solid

[Fate]

.....

cackler and satyr are BOTH better than foudnry street by miles.

I know he's cute with the token making and whatever, but without legion loyalist he's a bit embarassing. Satyr is way more consistent.


As for a more midrange build, the powers at be have this shell now that the 3 mana board wipe was printed:


4x Frostburn Weird
4x Reckoner
4x Stormbreath Dragon

1x Hammer

3x Chandra herself

4x Anger of the Gods
Xx asloads of burn removal, mortars, shocks, lightning strike, magma jet.


Its pretty solid

[Fate]

if you want a token deck
1. they need to print a few more token makes
2. Purphorous is very sweet, I'd avoid the 1 drops. You dont aim at turning on his devotion, he's more just a burn them out enchantment. I can imagine him+Chandra phoenix+Chandra being the only cards you need to win a few MUs

[xRECKONERx]

Lost 1-2 to a pauper FOUR COLOR HEXPROOF DECK. Unbelievable, he just got perfect mana every game. Also made literally every one of my removal spells useless -- nothing could hit his threats, except Ambush Viper, which I never saw.

[InflatablePie]

Full Theros spoilers got leaked.

Did some quick math for Limited creatures solely based off p/t:
Commons: 127 power/163 toughness (62 cards) [average 2.05/2.63]
Uncommons: 83 power/91 toughness (34 cards) [average 2.44/2.67]

Broken down by color:
White Commons: 25/34 (14 cards) [average 1.79/2.43]
Blue Commons: 20/35 (11 cards) [average 1.82/3.18]
Black Commons: 24/30 (12 cards) [average 2.0/2.5]
Red Commons: 25/22 (11 cards) [average 2.27/2.0]
Green Commons: 30/33 (11 cards) [average 2.73/3.0]
Artifact Commons: 3/9 (3 cards) [average 1.0/3.0]

White Uncommons: 5/9 (4 cards) [average 1.25/2.25]
Blue Uncommons: 14/14 (4 cards) [average 3.5/3.5]
Black Uncommons: 11/13 (5 cards) [average 2.2/2.6]
Red Uncommons: 16/13 (5 cards) [average 3.2/2.6]
Green Uncommons: 14/16 (5 cards) [average 2.8/3.2]
Gold Uncommons: 19/23 (9 cards) [average 2.11/2.56]
Artifact Uncommons: 4/3 (2 cards) [average 2.0/1.5]

Total: 210 power/254 toughness (96 cards)

[total average 2.19/2.65]

note: there's a 2/2 that's a 4/2 upon etb till eot, and a */3 flyer. I made them 2/2 and 0/3, not that it affects the calculations much.

I don't feel like figuring out the math to account for commons being more prevalent. Chances are 3/3s or 2/3s are decent picks, or anything that is good removal for x/3 or higher.

Also green seems strong.

[chamber]

looking at averages is bad. You want to get actual counts on below/above certain toughness values to determine relative strength of toughness based removal and how big a creature needs to be to be relevant.

[InflatablePie]

well then:

Spoiler: all common p/t

White: 25/34 (14 cards)
1CMC
1/1
0/4

2CMC
1/1
2/1
1/3
2/2

3CMC
2/2
3/2
2/2
1/4

4CMC
1/2
3/3

5CMC
3/2
3/5


Blue: 20/35 (11 cards)
1CMC
1/2

2CMC
2/1
1/3

3CMC
2/3
2/2
1/4

4CMC
3/2
1/5

5CMC
0/4
3/4

6CMC
4/5


Black: 24/30 (12 cards)
1CMC
1/1

2CMC
1/1
2/2
3/3

3CMC
2/1
2/3

4CMC
2/2
1/3
3/3
2/4

5CMC
2/4

6CMC
3/3


Red: 25/22 (11 cards)
1CMC
1/1
1/1

2CMC
2/1
2/1
2/3

3CMC
2/2(4/2)
2/2
1/2

4CMC
4/3
3/3

5CMC
5/3


Green: 30/33 (11 cards)
1CMC
1/1

2CMC
2/2
2/1
1/2

3CMC
3/2
3/3

4CMC
3/3
2/2

5CMC
4/5
3/7

6CMC
6/5


Artifact: 3/9 (3 cards)
2CMC
2/1

3CMC
0/6
1/2

Spoiler: all uncommon p/t

White: 5/9 (4 cards)
1CMC
1/2

2CMC
1/1

5CMC
2/3

6CMC
1/3


Blue: 14/14 (4 cards)
3CMC
2/2

4CMC
3/3

5CMC
5/5

6CMC
4/4

Black: 11/13 (5 cards)
1CMC
2/1

3CMC
2/2

4CMC
2/2
3/3

5CMC
2/5

Red: 16/13 (5 cards)
2CMC
2/1

3CMC
2/3

4CMC
4/2
3/3

5CMC
5/4

Green: 14/16 (5 cards)
3CMC
2/1

4CMC
1/4
3/3

5CMC
3/3

6CMC
5/5

Gold: 19/23 (9 cards)
2CMC
1/2
2/2
1/2

3CMC
*/3
3/3

4CMC
3/2

5CMC
2/3
4/3
3/3


Artifacts: 4/3 (2 cards)
3CMC
2/2

4CMC
2/1

[chamber]

The other issue with this set, and I don't know how to account for when doing a math break down like this, is a lot of the heroics add counters, and there is a lot of auras, meaning that I'm not sure on the relevance of base p/t.

[InflatablePie]

Yeah, there's lots of Heroic, Bestow, Monstrosity, a few token generators... just thought the info could be useful/interesting to someone.

Spoiler: more useless math

toughness 1 - 14 common / 5 uncommon
toughness 2 - 19 common / 10 uncommon
toughness 3 - 15 common / 13 uncommon
toughness 4 - 7 common / 3 uncommon
toughness 5 - 5 common / 3 uncommon
toughness 6 - 1 common
toughness 7 - 1 common

power 1 - 18 common / 6 uncommon
power 2 - 21 common / 21 uncommon
power 3 - 15 common / 8 uncommon
power 4 - 3 common / 3 uncommon
power 5 - 1 common / 3 uncommon

I feel like most removal is going to be through aura'd up dudes since actual removal seems a bit light. Also the format seems a bit slow, but maybe that's just me.