Magic: The Gathering,GO TEAM MS!

[Thestatusquo]

Is that cuz of gambling laws or something?

[Shanba]

This card. I want to make pauper decks with this card.

[Sudo_Nym]

This card. I want to make pauper decks with this card.

There's got to be someway to abuse this is in a Kiln Fiends/Nivix Cyclops style shell.

[Thestatusquo]

The issue is I dont think its better than Kiln Fiends and Cyclops. That deck already has Wee Dragonauts that it doesnt play.

[Sudo_Nym]

I said that style, not the exact deck. Cyclops decks use a lot of non-targetting spells to boost Cyclops/Fiends. But you still are going to be borrowing a lot of the Mizzium Skin style effects from that deck.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes. Is that better than Kilnclops?

[xRECKONERx]

brb brewing pyromancer/akroan crusader

[AGar]

brb brewing pyromancer/akroan crusader

Yeahhhh that was my first thought when I saw this thought.

[AGar]

Can I just go on record saying that "post-rotation" lists without the next set being fully spoiled are

fucking stupid?

A large set brimming with 229 cards is going to be coming in about a month, I'm sure it'll have shit that fits into your archetype du jour.

What's fucking stupid is waiting until some netlist spoonfeeds you a complete deck post-rotation, when the core cards will be at premium.

There's no shame in speculating a future core. We are losing

three

sets and only gaining

one

. There won't be a 1-1 replacement for every Standard playable card, which means that most of the post-rotation Standard core already exists. Plan, buy, and brew now.

You're talking about figuring out what cards are going to be valuable/brewing based off of spoilers. I have no qualms about that.

What I said was "fucking stupid" was making a list that literally is never going to be optimum. "Post rotation" lists prior to full (or even partial) spoilers are pointless. There is never a point in time where that list will be the best. The list Reck posted uses RTR/M14. Right now, until September 27th, INN, M13, RTR and M14 are all legal. On September 27th, RTR/M14/THS will be legal.

There is never going to be a single point in time where RTR/M14 will be the only legal cards. Ever.

I do not see a point in trying to construct a deck list out of only that block + core set. You're literally handicapping yourself for no good reason. Play M13/INN cards until they're not legal. Sure, speculate all you want on what cards are going to explode when THS drops. Pinpoint what cards you want to aim for out of THS spoilers.

But for the love of god, if you're so eager to brew and combine your resources for the future rotation, don't waste time on lists you will never realistically play.

[xRECKONERx]

...the point is that 4 sets are rotating out, and we're only getting 1 set rotating in. The cards we have in RTR block + M14 are going to form the backbone for any deck, so brewing decks based off of that that will only change out a couple of cards for new ones is fine. That list there won't change much at all with the THS stuff... maybe 1-2 of the cards will go in exchange for THS stuff, but it won't change that much.

[AGar]

You also don't know what cards in THS are going to be good in combination with cards from RTR/M14 you haven't considered. You don't know for sure whether THS is going to have a kickass backbone or not. That's my point - there are a lot of variables, and trying to figure out "Oh this will probably be good" (or "Wow, these cards kick ass, they will definitely be good no matter what.") is one thing.

Posting a 60/75 of cards strictly from 4 of the 5 sets without seeing the 5th set is just, in my opinion, asinine.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't think it's asinine. I get your points, though. I just feel like, if you look at the previous sets, the big standard decks at first are all built heavily upon the previous sets with only one or two new cards shining through. The UWR lists when RTR came out still relied on Snaps/Tamiyo/Terminus/Entreat/Think Twice/Pillar as their big players, with cameo appearances by Azorius Charm & Supreme Verdict. Hell, Jund was literally just M13/ISD block cards featuring Mizzium Mortars. Zombies added Rakdos Cackler, and not much else. I guess Jace AOT saw a lot of play, but yeah, the core lists were still heavily based in old cards with only a sprinkle of new stuff. That's how I'm expecting it to go again.

[Fate]

another point in favor of the brew crew is that, by playing with 4/5 set decklists and trying them out and seeing how they run, you can also identify the WEAKEST cards that will be the first ones you look to cut upon seeing what Theros has toadd to your deck.

As well as just generally figuring out "what the deck needs" to better evaluate spoilers is pretty tech too.

Is it 100% optimal and efficient? No, but its not your time thats being "wasted", so I dont really see the point of being insulting about it

[Sudo_Nym]

I don't think deckbuilding is as simple as "Cut the rotating cards and look for replacements." You're going to be brewing in a new environment, and the interactions and meta are going to be different. Simply saying "Okay, this is sorta similar, so use it to replace" isn't going to work out very well.

[Fate]

I mean its where people start though and its not the worse place to start

[Thestatusquo]

But its objectively worse than waiting for all the cards to be revealed.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't think deckbuilding is as simple as "Cut the rotating cards and look for replacements." You're going to be brewing in a new environment, and the interactions and meta are going to be different. Simply saying "Okay, this is sorta similar, so use it to replace" isn't going to work out very well.

I'm pretty sure the basic archetypes aren't going to suddenly get an overhaul because of Theros cards.

I don't think when RTR was coming in, anyone went, "Well shit, I'd better not put Think Twice and Dissipate and Snapcaster in my control list because who knows what format shattering control stuff is coming in!" No, you knew you'd be playing those cards because they were the backbone of control.

Same goes for aggro. I don't actually think the mono red lists changed that much besides the loss of Shrine of Burning Rage, and people knew "Okay, Stromkirk Noble and Hellrider are going to be fantastic in this archetype so let's use them." Sure, Ash Zealot & Rakdos Cackler got printed, that only strengthened the archetype, it didn't fuck up anything pre-rotation.

"Build around me" cards will crop up, I'm sure, but those aren't the "typical" archetypes. When it comes to simple archetypal decks like RDW or UWx control or GW midrange, those types of decks will always be there and it's not like everyone will suddenly be playing Block Constructed in Standard. The cards that lend themselves to their respective archetypes now will still be good in those archetypes.

p.edit: So what? Planning a few lists and trying them out to see how the cards play together now is going to give you a head start on the decks when the full spoiler goes out

[AGar]

I don't think deckbuilding is as simple as "Cut the rotating cards and look for replacements." You're going to be brewing in a new environment, and the interactions and meta are going to be different. Simply saying "Okay, this is sorta similar, so use it to replace" isn't going to work out very well.

[Sudo_Nym]

Sure, some times some cards are so good that you know you'll use them. And some archetypes like MUC are always looking for the same sort of gameplan. But most archetypes will change dramatically as the cards they need to interact with change. It's an argument that really only affects the fringe cards and the roleplayers, but would something like Crippling Blight have seen any play at all in a meta without Thragtusk? Would Dissipate see play in a meta without Flashback? Most cards are like that- they play important parts of strategies because they happen to have good synergy with other cards in the meta, or happen to neatly counteract others. Change the interactions, and you change their playability. There may not be a card like Hellrider in the new set, but RDW may not even need or want it, depending on what else there is to look at.

[Tamuz]

But the people who play it are literal sperges.

I cannot bring myself to go to a Friday Night Magic because I always play against some whiny greasy fuck who either:

1) Takes the game SUPER SERIOUS and has a deck full of $100+ cards he bought online and has a HARDXCORE PLAY2WIN POWER UP MY E-RANKING attitude.
2) Is completely anti-social and weird and doesn't want to talk or have fun, just completley focus on the game
3) Plays some kind of control deck and stalls TERRIBLY for fucking ever trying to make a big decision about every single little act.
4) Gets really whiny/crabby when he's losing. If #4 is also #1 he will flip the fuck out if he loses to a "lesser" player.
5) Doesn't know wtf is going on and has to clarify the rules constantly, or will argue about the rules.
6) Thinks he knows TOO MUCH about the rules and has to clarify the rules constantly from a rulebook, lagging the game.
7) Smells fucking awful
8) Just has no practical social skills

It's just a generally shit-laden scene full of grown men in cargo shorts and running shoes.

There was this one guy who used to scam younger or newer players by giving them awful trades from his enormous megafuck binder full of a bajillion expensive cards. He was huge but also muscular and would basically intimidate them into trading with him.

My RL friends also don't play magic and the ones I have seen that do play aren't any better than the sperges I meet at FTM, except they are usually very dumb and bad at the game.

Where the fuck do I meet normal people to play magic with

[Tamuz]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... seid=89116

1. With Doubling Season in play, then

Spoiler: this

[/spoilercomes into play with 10 loyalty counters, and you can fire his ultimate immediately. (Note that using Nicol Bolas's +3 ability would not let you put 6 counters on him; those counters are added as a "cost" rather than an effect)

2. Put 26 zombie tokens into play

Spoiler: Army of the Damned

3. Drop a 20/20 Hydra for 7 mana.

Spoiler: Apocalypse Hydra

4. Make

Spoiler: Dark Depths

come into play with 20 ice counters so that it's twice as difficult to get Marit Lage to come out, and then two Marit Lages come out and they both die because they're legendary.
* correction: the rules regarding legendaries has changed; now you only have to sacrifice them until one remains, which means all you do is waste one of your new Marit Lages

5. Play

Spoiler: Opalescence

to make Doubling Season into a 5/5 creature. Then play

Spoiler: Rite of Replication

[/spoiler
with kicker, to create 10 more copies of Doubling Season. Then play

Spoiler: Thatcher Revolt

and attack your opponent with 6,144 human tokens. Meanwhile you can stick 2,048 tower counters on

Spoiler: Helix Pinnacle

with each mana you've got to spare.

Say that you then cast another Rite, producing an additional 10240 Doubling Seasons. This means everything from then on is multiplied by 2^10251, which is around 7*10^3085, or a 7 followed by 3085 zeros. Then, say you play a

Spoiler: Khalni Garden

I'm pretty sure this causes the universe to fill with plant tokens, which causes it to condense under its own mass. Congrats, you just started the next Big Bang!"

[dramonic]

And then you get attacked by a legion loyalist and DIE.

[Thestatusquo]

I see that you are an EDH player.

[Thestatusquo]

MaRo just officially spoiled thoughtseize.

https://twitter.com/maro254/status/3739 ... 98/photo/1

[InflatablePie]

both the Commune players and AGar/Sudo both have valid points and I don't think there's a need to "win" this argument

it's not useless to brew up Block+Core decklists, but at the same time we won't know what the meta will be until a month or two after release

Is that cuz of gambling laws or something?

it's actually illegal in Florida (and other states) to accept tourney fees because it's seen as "gambling".

which segues into: it's illegal to sign up for MTGO and get prizes if you live in those states. which I found out after I signed up for an account (mostly just to practice drafts and such). not like they check your info though

also MTGO runs incredibly shitty on my laptop and I don't know why, so I guess I'll be using esurio's comp (and/or teaching her how to draft using that).